Why are 2 stage AR15 triggers hyped so much?

FS2K · February 21, 2007, 06:09 AM

Personally, I favor the original Single Stage Trigger set-up on the AR15. No creep, no play, just squeeze the trigger and go. I can see where a 2 stage trigger would be preferred in a target rifle where accuracy and consistancy are important, but on an quick handling rifle like the AR15 where follow up shots and multiple shots are often taken I don't see any advantage to a 2 stage trigger. To me, the 2 stage trigger feels sloppy when taking quick shots. I thought about why I feel this way about 2 stage triggers and allot of it has to do with habits I have developed while shooting AR's with the single stage setup; most noticably the fact that I don't have any pressure on the trigger when not firing the S/S, and with the 2 stage I subconciously try to take up that first stage slack even while in a resting state. This adjustment was uncomfortable to me.

Has anyone else felt that 2 stage AR triggers aren't for them?

(Just AR's cuz allot of other rifles come stock with 2 stage triggers.

)

Abstract · February 21, 2007, 11:41 AM

I use a JP single stage. Works for me.

Gewehr98 · February 21, 2007, 11:59 AM

2-stage triggers are preferred for High Power Service Rifle competition.

Some folks explain their dislike for single-stage AR triggers as a potential safety issue. I haven't had that problem so far, so I don't know if I'm just plain lucky, or have a well-built trigger.

Edward429451 · February 21, 2007, 12:11 PM

<Original single stage trigger>

My Bushy came with a 2 stage trigger from the factory. Did the <original> Colts have SS triggers?

I have a RRA 2 stage now and love it. My original 2 stage had a lot of creep.

**Art Eatman** · February 21, 2007, 12:51 PM

Funny about that. 55 or 60 years back, when customizing on old WW II Mausers was in its heyday, the first part of doing a trigger job was getting rid of that "military trigger" and its two-stage pull.

Discussions about any value to a two-stage deal generally concluded that it was for ham-handed newbies, in part; and, to prevent ADs if wearing gloves in winter. Probably have to back up another fifty or more years from then, to really find out why.

FWIW, my preference is the standard single-stage with quality like Canjar's.

Art

hodaka · February 21, 2007, 01:16 PM

I think you answered your own question. My "target" AR has a Jewell 2-stage trigger and my "quick handling" AR with a 16 inch barrel has a JP single stage. Works for me.

firechicken · February 21, 2007, 07:24 PM

When I built my AR, I used an Olympic Arms stripped lower and put a Bushmaster lower parts kit in it. The trigger was horrible. The first time my Dad shot it, he took the safety off, shouldered it, went to fire, looked at the safety again, then asked me what was wrong. I told him that he had to pull HARD on the trigger. I put up with it like that for a while, then tried the "15 minute trigger job" which was basically a quick polish job, cutting one leg off the hammer spring, and bending the legs on the trigger spring. Better, but it still had a lot of creep. Next was the set screw threaded into the hole where the pistol grip screw goes. That took the creep out, but I felt it was unsafe due to the minimal sear engagement. Then I had a chance to get a Rock River 2 stage trigger kit pretty cheap, so I tried that. I like it!

I feels almost exactly like the trigger in my M1 Garand. It is light with no creep (after the first stage is taken up), and it didn't seem to make any difference in how fast follow up shots can be made. If I ever try a nice single stage on an AR, I might like that better, who knows, but for now, I'm happy with my 2-stage.

RockyMtnTactical · February 21, 2007, 08:06 PM

I don't feel that they are hyped up. They are just one of among many options out there for the AR15...

Eghad · February 21, 2007, 08:56 PM

I can use either on a rifle..... no big difference to me.

Last time I went hunting the brain and the muscles in the trigger finger did all the work. I didn't even notice the recoil. I just sort of subconsciously take up the slack in the trigger and squeeze. If its a single stage my brain and trigger finger notice there is no slack, I squeeze the trigger from that point.

Tim R · February 21, 2007, 09:04 PM

Well, we beat up on some countries during WW2 and beyond using a 2 stage trigger and no body complained.

Limeyfellow · February 22, 2007, 02:42 AM

I actually prefer two stage triggers though I guess I used them mostly.

They give me more control having the trigger almost there so only a slight pull will set it off and cause less of a chance to pull it off target and easier on the operation, which is nice on a full powered rifle round or one that has a heavier pull on the trigger.

Of course it requires the two stage trigger set up properly to avoid nasty creep, but the same thing can be said about bad creep on single stage triggers..

FS2K · February 22, 2007, 07:34 AM

Quote:

I don't feel that they are hyped up. They are just one of among many options out there for the AR15...

Well, you sell accessories Rocky, of course you shouldn't feel they are hyped...but they are. 2 stage AR triggers are advertised like they are a huge improvement over stock. To me? They aren't.

Quote:

Well, we beat up on some countries during WW2 and beyond using a 2 stage trigger and no body complained.

Did they use AR15's Tim? No, they did not. That's why I said my post was about AR15 triggers and no other rifle. But thanks for the reply.

I never considered the safety issues of a 2 stage when wearing gloves, that makes sense. (We never have snow here LOL!) It's hard for me to explain, but I prefer the S/S triggers because of their 'feel'. They have short throws with solid/positive stops and have equally short reset travel making it easier (for me) to shoot quicker accurately. Many of my other guns have 2 stage triggers and I use them as is without a 2nd thought, but every rifle is different and for AR15's I am used to a single stage trigger pull.
It's like if someone handed me a 1911 with a double action trigger, it wouldn't feel right.

NateG · February 22, 2007, 11:26 AM

For a high power gun in the Service Rifle class, your rifle has to have at least a 4.5 pound trigger pull. In a two-stage trigger, you can have about three of those pounds taken up in the first stage, leaving what feels like a 1.5 pound crisp pull to actually break the shot. So, that way, you follow the rules, and still have a nice trigger.

Personally, I like having a little pressure and movement on the trigger before it breaks, so I like the two-stage triggers. But if they weren't required (in effect, even if not specifically) for service rifle matches, I doubt they'd be nearly as common.

February 21, 2007, 06:09 AM	#1
FS2K Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2006 Posts: 1,853	Why are 2 stage AR15 triggers hyped so much? Personally, I favor the original Single Stage Trigger set-up on the AR15. No creep, no play, just squeeze the trigger and go. I can see where a 2 stage trigger would be preferred in a target rifle where accuracy and consistancy are important, but on an quick handling rifle like the AR15 where follow up shots and multiple shots are often taken I don't see any advantage to a 2 stage trigger. To me, the 2 stage trigger feels sloppy when taking quick shots. I thought about why I feel this way about 2 stage triggers and allot of it has to do with habits I have developed while shooting AR's with the single stage setup; most noticably the fact that I don't have any pressure on the trigger when not firing the S/S, and with the 2 stage I subconciously try to take up that first stage slack even while in a resting state. This adjustment was uncomfortable to me. Has anyone else felt that 2 stage AR triggers aren't for them? (Just AR's cuz allot of other rifles come stock with 2 stage triggers. ) __________________ Just a big fan of guns.

February 21, 2007, 11:59 AM	#3
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	I have a JP single-stage trigger, also. 2-stage triggers are preferred for High Power Service Rifle competition. Some folks explain their dislike for single-stage AR triggers as a potential safety issue. I haven't had that problem so far, so I don't know if I'm just plain lucky, or have a well-built trigger. __________________ "Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round... Neural Misfires

February 21, 2007, 12:11 PM	#4
Edward429451 Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 5,981	<Original single stage trigger> My Bushy came with a 2 stage trigger from the factory. Did the <original> Colts have SS triggers? I have a RRA 2 stage now and love it. My original 2 stage had a lot of creep. __________________ "Always place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark" Lazarus Long "Understand that the enemy is not the enemy in his own eyes ;this may offer you an opportunity to make him your friend. If not, you can kill him without hate, and quickly." Lazarus Long

February 21, 2007, 12:51 PM	#5
Art Eatman Staff Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX, USA Posts: 16,803	Funny about that. 55 or 60 years back, when customizing on old WW II Mausers was in its heyday, the first part of doing a trigger job was getting rid of that "military trigger" and its two-stage pull. Discussions about any value to a two-stage deal generally concluded that it was for ham-handed newbies, in part; and, to prevent ADs if wearing gloves in winter. Probably have to back up another fifty or more years from then, to really find out why. FWIW, my preference is the standard single-stage with quality like Canjar's. Art __________________ "You're from BATFE? Hey, great! I use all your fine products!"

February 21, 2007, 08:06 PM	#8
RockyMtnTactical Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2006 Location: Rocky Mountains Posts: 1,552	I don't feel that they are hyped up. They are just one of among many options out there for the AR15... __________________ http://www.rockymountaintactical.net/ - http://minutemanreview.com/ - http://ar15pro.net/

February 21, 2007, 11:41 AM	#2
Abstract Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 2006 Posts: 443	I use a JP single stage. Works for me.

February 21, 2007, 01:16 PM	#6
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 956	I think you answered your own question. My "target" AR has a Jewell 2-stage trigger and my "quick handling" AR with a 16 inch barrel has a JP single stage. Works for me.

February 21, 2007, 07:24 PM	#7
firechicken Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2006 Location: Savannah, MO Posts: 222	When I built my AR, I used an Olympic Arms stripped lower and put a Bushmaster lower parts kit in it. The trigger was horrible. The first time my Dad shot it, he took the safety off, shouldered it, went to fire, looked at the safety again, then asked me what was wrong. I told him that he had to pull HARD on the trigger. I put up with it like that for a while, then tried the "15 minute trigger job" which was basically a quick polish job, cutting one leg off the hammer spring, and bending the legs on the trigger spring. Better, but it still had a lot of creep. Next was the set screw threaded into the hole where the pistol grip screw goes. That took the creep out, but I felt it was unsafe due to the minimal sear engagement. Then I had a chance to get a Rock River 2 stage trigger kit pretty cheap, so I tried that. I like it! I feels almost exactly like the trigger in my M1 Garand. It is light with no creep (after the first stage is taken up), and it didn't seem to make any difference in how fast follow up shots can be made. If I ever try a nice single stage on an AR, I might like that better, who knows, but for now, I'm happy with my 2-stage.

February 21, 2007, 08:56 PM	#9
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,893	I can use either on a rifle..... no big difference to me. Last time I went hunting the brain and the muscles in the trigger finger did all the work. I didn't even notice the recoil. I just sort of subconsciously take up the slack in the trigger and squeeze. If its a single stage my brain and trigger finger notice there is no slack, I squeeze the trigger from that point. __________________ Have a nice day at the range NRA Life Member

February 21, 2007, 09:04 PM	#10
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,051	Well, we beat up on some countries during WW2 and beyond using a 2 stage trigger and no body complained. __________________ All the really big guns are in the Navy

February 22, 2007, 02:42 AM	#11
Limeyfellow Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2005 Posts: 1,381	I actually prefer two stage triggers though I guess I used them mostly. They give me more control having the trigger almost there so only a slight pull will set it off and cause less of a chance to pull it off target and easier on the operation, which is nice on a full powered rifle round or one that has a heavier pull on the trigger. Of course it requires the two stage trigger set up properly to avoid nasty creep, but the same thing can be said about bad creep on single stage triggers..

February 22, 2007, 11:26 AM	#13
NateG Member Join Date: August 27, 2006 Posts: 16	For a high power gun in the Service Rifle class, your rifle has to have at least a 4.5 pound trigger pull. In a two-stage trigger, you can have about three of those pounds taken up in the first stage, leaving what feels like a 1.5 pound crisp pull to actually break the shot. So, that way, you follow the rules, and still have a nice trigger. Personally, I like having a little pressure and movement on the trigger before it breaks, so I like the two-stage triggers. But if they weren't required (in effect, even if not specifically) for service rifle matches, I doubt they'd be nearly as common.