My first trip to the range - Pictures of groupings included

[CDFT]

Well I went with my friend to the DFW gun range (nice people, nice place) so he could play with his new XD and I could try out his Beretta 8045 (yay, the first pistol I fire and it's a .45). Oh yes, and we also wanted to try the 12 ga shotgun again (last time it kicked our butts). We were newbies to the whole range thing (well, my friend had been to a range before, but their rules were minimal), but we did our best to be good boys and everything went great.

Well if you look at the attached images, the first one should be my shoulder area (yes, I'm skinny, I know; I'm 115 lb, I need the meat and taters diet, I know) after eighteen rounds with the shotgun. Yeah, it slipped onto my arm and hurt a LOT for the few shots I fired before I realized what had happened. I got it to where it needed to be and it hurt a lot less, but it still kicked like heck. Almost enough to make me consider a 20 ga. Almost. I think a custom recoil pad is in order though. Any brand recommendations so I don't dread practicing with the thing?

As for the pistol shots, the second and third images are me firing my first seventy-five rounds and then twenty-five rounds (respectively) at a target at seven yards. On the second picture with twenty-five shots that's a 20" group, so nothing to brag about. I think that after my twenty-first birthday coming up soon, I'll want to buy myself a .22 target shooting pistol to get some good, cheap practice on marksmanship. Any recommendations for somebody on a budget there? Likewise, any problems with my technique you can infer from the spread (it seems low, but fairly centered on the X axis), or should I just keep cracking at it.

And I guess to fill out my description of the trip, there were a few people who showed up after us. Pretty nice people, one let me try his 9mm (a S&W of some sort) and I felt VERY clearly a noticably lower amount of recoil on it. Another let me try his .22 pistol, and I was surprised to find that there is basically no recoil on it at all. Heck, I even fired off a magazine of my friend's XD and it had a touch more recoil than the 8045. I managed to catch part of my finger putting a magazine in. Made it bleed and everything. Definitely didn't make that mistake twice.

Anyway, it was pretty fun. I didn't really have any trouble handling the .45's recoil, but that doesn't change the fact that the 9mm was more pleasant to shoot. Like I asked earlier, what should I be looking at to improve my grouping with that .45? What would be a good .22 to buy to practice with? Are people always so easy-going and "here, try my gun out!"?

[CDFT]

Okay... It didn't include the attachments. Let's try again.

[JohnKSa]

I'll want to buy myself a .22 target shooting pistol to get some good, cheap practice on marksmanship. Any recommendations for somebody on a budget there?

I'd look for a used Ruger Mark II.

Are people always so easy-going and "here, try my gun out!"?

I think most shooters are pretty interested in talking/sharing, especially amongst their own "kind".

As far as the 12ga goes, there are reduced recoil loads which may help a bit. You may be able to find a slip-on recoil boot/pad that will slid on over the stock. I don't know how effective they are...

Dryfire (firing with an unloaded gun) is a great aid to improving pistol accuracy. You want to hold the gun steady with the sights aligned while you pull the trigger. Be sure to do some double-action practice. Also be sure to double-check that the gun is unloaded. It's also best to leave your ammunition in another room and get into a routine that helps prevent mistakes. A common mistake is to reload after dryfire practice and then pick up the loaded gun for some more dryfire. For that reason, you should always dryfire at a safe backstop. A full bookcase or something similar makes a good backstop.

If you really get into dryfire, to the point that you're doing a lot of it on a regular basis, you may want to invest in some "snap-caps" to cut down on the stress to the firing pin.

[NCHornet]

Glad you had a good time and the folks were friendly, were not all that friendly some of us are real jerks, lol!!
I would hold off on full house 12 gauge 00buck loads for now. Maybe start with some low power number 7-8 bird shot in a 2 3/4 shell would be more comfortable, always look where the but is before you fire until you develop muscle memory and place it correctly everytime.
For the 22 idea I agree nothing better than a MarkII.
Your pistol grouping, isn't really even a group but a huge splatter, actually it looks more like a shotgun target! lol!!!
Forget about 25 yard targets, move the target up to the 7 yard line and don't move it until you have a very tight 2-3" groupings. You need to start with the very basics so you don't build bad habits. For this ask somebody at the range that knows what they are doing to help you, read as many articles on grip, sighting, stance, arm placement and take it nice and slow. Notice how subtle changes affect where the bullets go. Here is a link that I think will be a big help to you. Most of all hit that range as often as you can. I would also stay with one gun until you learn the good habits. Shooting lots of different guns is fun but does little to help you. For your puny size,lol!!, I would stay with the 9mm, or the 22 if you can pick up a nice used one. Heres the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

[NCHornet]

This is a copy of my reply to your other post in the semi auto forum, where I realized the 20" grouping was from 7 yards and not 25 yards as I thought.

Quote:
20" group at 7 yards, were you using a shotgun?? LOL!! I replied to your other post. I thought you were at 25 yards with that grouping. I really suggest you stop right now and do the things I suggested in the other post and get the foundation solid otherwise you will build one bad habit upon another and this can be hard to break later on. If the grouping is that large at 7 yards it may also be a solid sign this gun is way to big for you and your size. If you can't get this down to 2-3" by following my suggestions on the other post I suggest getting and smaller cal handgun. I 9mm would be my suggestion.
Take Care

[hceptj]

Glad you had fun at the range. I go there myself sometimes but usually end up at Bullseye in Duncanville because its closer to the house.

As said above, lots of practice will improve your aim.

I agree about a 9mm or .22 being a good first pistol to own. I bought a Taurus 92 in 9mm from academy a while back for less than $400. It's a good, reliable pistol for the money and in 9mm doesn't have any recoil to speak of at all.

I also have a Beretta Neos in .22lr that is tons of fun. Academy sells them for around $210 last time I checked.

Enjoy whatever you buy and spend as much time on the range as possible. By the way, since the weather is getting warmer, think about the outside ranges for practice...Garland Public is only $10 for a membership and $10/visit (at least last time I spoke to a guy who lives up that way)...also, Alpine down around Mansfield is $7.00-$8.00...you can go to either of them for about half what most indoor ranges charge.

[ATW525]

Wow... it's way too early. I clicked on this thread hoping to find pictures of gropings and was sorely disappointed.

Anyways your "groups" look fairly typical for what I see from inexperienced shooters at the local range, and in fact my own "groups" looked quite similiar at one point. Generally when your groups are approaching two feet in diameter at seven yards it's a fairly good sign that you're doing something wrong. You need to identify what you're doing wrong and work on correcting it and a more experienced shooter at your range might be able to help you there. More practice will only help you improve once you're practicing the right thing.

For me, I also found that Andy Stanford's book "Surgical Speed Shooting" made a big improvement in my shooting ability.

[slow944]

I usually shot at the Bullet Trap up in Plano on Plano Rd at Park Blvd. It's a very nice range and they have at least 150 guns for rent if your not sure what you want to buy to start shooting with. I've got a Taurus 22LR 6shot revolver that I love shooting, simple to load and shoot, adjustable sights, no kick at all. I started my shooting with my Dad useing a 22LR and it's the best way to improve you accuracy. The Buck Mark or the Ruger MKII are very good guns. Isaw a couple for sale there this week, so they are around. With a good 22 you should be able to keep all rounds in a raged hole at 7yds. That will help with the larger calibers as you become more confident with you abilities. Hope to see you at the range........Jerry

[CDFT]

Bullet Trap was the other candidate for where to go to, and we were probably going to give them a try eventually too.

And they are groups. Dismal groups, but groups all the same.

I know all about focusing on the front sight, but I noticed that I really wanted to look at the target first to see where I was trying to align the sight to. I think part of my problem is that I may have a bit of a flinch... I noticed that the gun still moved on my first shot with the .22, and that the gun wasn't moving on its own. I fixed that big time on the rest of the shots, but I'm guessing part of my problem on that .45 is anticipating the recoil.

After watching that video, I think I have some work to do on my grip as well. Well, the reason I came here was to get myself a respectable grouping. I wouldn't be able to do that without feeling at least somewhat silly over everything I was doing wrong.

Anyway, thanks everyone. I'll definitely do a better job next time.

[fattsgalore]

If this was your first range trip then those targets are good. My first shooting session with a Bersa .380 I barley hit the target(50/50) at 25 feet. But the Para that i shot next told me i like .45 characteristics, the Bersa .380 wasn't in the same league.

Everything about shooting a .22 is good but not great. A .22 doesn't shoot like a 9mm or 45 or any other round for that matter. But for someone that has never shot a gun a .22 is a good training tool. Or to see what your doing wrong, somewhat. Once again different gun; trigger; ergonomics.
All you need is range time with what ever gun your planning on carrying.

My main problem is i can barely use the sights on my Glock. So my grouping is, take your grouping and push it inwards from the left and right. I tend to center, but high or low.

Once again I don't like the Glock sights or trigger which make for inconsistent shooting..

[NCHornet]

I know I busted your chops a little, but I thought you could handle it. There is no shame here, we were all new shooters at one time, some of us forget that. It's all about sharing info and increasing your skills. If I was closer I would offer to meet with you personally to help you. Maybe some of these other members that are close by you and visit the same indoor range might make the same offer. In all seriousness I will help you all I can, just limited without being there.

[Trope]

Sounds like you had a lot of fun, which is one of the best reasons to go shooting!

I shoot there fairly often. It's a nice indoor range, with good ventilation. Bullet Trap is also nice, but seems much louder inside, fwiw.

Starting out with a .45 is pretty aggressive. You'll probably find that you won't be so tense with something smaller like a .22. It's also cheaper, and creates less fatigue. I have a Buckmark, and it's pretty darn fun to shoot. You have to be careful that you don't get into the habit of flinching, because that can be hard to get rid of later. You know in your mind that you can hold and fire the larger gun, but that subtle anticipation can still be there.

But above all, keep having fun!

[Dreadnought]

A word of advice. I was in the same boat you were in when I got my first handgun last summer. Before I even dry fired it, I went to a local range that happens to be right across the street from VSP HQ and got myself an hour of certified instruction to handgun basics before I even thought about starting some bad habits. Here's the first target I shot, 7 yards. I was using the Cougar's tupperware cousin, the PX4 in 9mm flavor. Up to this point I'd only fired pellet rifles.



The circled rounds were the first five shots my instructor let me shoot as a baseline. As you can see, not very good. He then instructed me on my hand placement on my own pistol, then also trigger control. The next shots were much better. From those $35, I have a lot more fun at the range when I go out and there are guys shooting patterns (those aren't groups) covering the entire torso of their silhouettes. Then they see my "tiny" (5") targets 5 yards farther out than theirs are with all my rounds through them and make comments on how "it must be good to know if you have to shoot something, it's staying down" (their words, not mine).
Private instruction is definitely worth the price.

The 8045 is an ok pistol as far as recoil is concerned, because the operating system is similar to the PX4's. If you want a decently powerful pistol with lower recoil, the Beretta model 96 or 90two in .40 cal. would do well (the only difference is the 90two has a recoil buffer and different aesthetics). Even lower recoil would tbe 9mm 90two or 92FS. There are .22LR conversion kits for the 92, but unless you get them secondhand, they are almost the price of a whole new .22 pistol. The advantage is you are using the same frame and trigger to gain muscle memory.

If you want to improve you grouping, there are many things I/we can suggest, but at least I would need to see your shooting mechanics. There are a few things I can blindly suggest.
After getting certified instruction, dry fire. That's the great thing about a DA/SA like the Cougar, no having to reset a hammer or striker. Clear the pistol. Clear it again, check the chamber with your finger. Point it in a bulletproof direction. Get a proper grip and make sure it is exactly the same every time. Make sure the top of the front blade is aligned with the rear sight leaf and in the middle of the notch. Aim at a point on your bulletproof backstop. Start pulling the trigger back slowly at an even pace with your finger placement and movement the same as Mr. Jarrett explains in the video. Don't jerk it backwards, the sear releasing the hammer should surprise you. Follow through is just as important, releasing the trigger until it resets is the opposite motion of the trigger pull. Let the first two joints of the finger do all the moving, being careful to maintain your sight picture and aim.
Get a finger gym and work your hands for an hour or so a day, like while you're watching TV or going to the bathroom or something.
Also, when you are shooting, you focus on the front sight, not the target, or both sights. You should line up your sights and the rear sight should be slightly out of focus, the front sight crystal clear, and the target blurry. Don't look to the target after each shot, either. You're eyes will get tired. Fire a string, rest if you need to between shots, but don't keep going from the sights to the target to the sights over and over.
HTH

[skeeter1]

Are people always so easy-going and "here, try my gun out!"?

That's been my experience, and I'll always let someone try out whatever I've brought to the range that day. I'm proud of the collection I have, and if someone compliments me on one of my firearms, I'll let them give it a try. I'll even supply the ammo.

IMHO, shooting is a sport among gentelmen and gentleladies, and since some of mine are quite old, ones they're not likely to experience any time soon again, and have had several thousand rounds through them, what's a few more?

I've seen snobby people on the golf course, but in my experience, people at the target range are the most friendly people, and enjoy letting you try out their favorite toys.

[fattsgalore]

I'm a, you can shoot mine if i shoot yours type of guy. If you don't have another piece you better bring ammo though.
shooting aint cheap.

Also 9mm is normaly the best over all gun to start off with. Recoil/ammo price/plethora of gun makes and models. But, if you don't want that Cougar 45, i'll happily take it.
Seriously!

[CDFT]

Hmmmm, I may go ahead and rent a SIG p226 in 9mm when we go there again. And wow Dread, those five baseline shots look strangely familiar...

I've gathered that it's entirely normal for the gun to not be perfectly still in your hands? I.e. I have to wait to pull the trigger until when the gun moves into proper sight alignment? Because that was one of my issues. I don't know if the better grip will help with that, but I'll definitely be adjusting my grip next time.

[Vitamin G]

...and i'd like to thank the old man shooting bullseye at the local range, who got me into 1911's. I'd also like to thank the academy, my parents, jesus, my producer, my agent, and all the little people, who made it possible for me to be here tonight.

[Dreadnought]

I forget the proper term for it, but you should not wait to pull the trigger if you're sight picture is moving around. You need to keep it stable, take in a deep breath, let out half slowly, stop and start squeezing the trigger back like a ball rolling down a hill at a constant speed. The release of the hammer and the shot should "surprise" you, meaning it comes unexpectedly. Then reset in the exact opposite motion. If you have to wait until the sight picture lines up, more than likely you will "jerk" the trigger and pull the shot. If your hands aren't steady enough to maintain a proper sight picture throughout the trigger pull, then you need a lighter gun or work on shoulder, arm, and wrist strength. Get a 6 or 7 lb. dumbbell and work it both arms for an hour straight, don't put it down. After a week or two, your pistol will feel a featherweight.

[Ian2005]

I can atest that 90% of the people I've seen out at the range DO NOT know proper pistol holding and shooting techniques. Learning to shoot properly is the best foundation to shooting success for the rest of your life. Learn the proper techniques now, and you not only will be able to bullseye everything from .22rims to .44 Magnums, it may save your life one day as well.