Los Angeles goes after reloaders (??)

[Oatka]

Got this from another board, with no attribution. Check out section (c) -- Can anybody in Kali land clue us in?

"THE PEOPLE OF THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES DO ORDAIN AS FOLLOWS:

SEC.55.09. AMMUNTION SALES PROHIBITED.

(a) The term "firearm ammuntion" shall mean any ammuntion for use in a pistol, revolver or any other firearm, as that term is defined in Section 103.314 of this Code.

(b) No person shall purchase, sell, give or otherwise transfer of any firearm ammuntion wether assembled cartridges or component parts of cartridges.

(c) No person shall purchase, sell, give or otherwise transfer ownership of any firearm ammunition loading device.

(d) The provisions of this section shall not apply to any sale or transfer of firearm ammunition which is prohibited under state law.

(e) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:

1. any person described in Section 12302 or 12322 of the Penal Code of the State of California.

2. any off-duty peace officer who displays proper agency identification which identifies him or her as an active peace officer.

3. Transactions involving the sale of curio or collector ammunition. A cartridge shall be deemed curio or collector ammunition if it falls within any of these categories: (1) it was manufactured at least fifty years prior to the date of the transaction, or (2) it is certified by the curator of a municipal, state or federal museum which exhibits firearms ammunition to be a curio or relic of interest, or (3)it derives a substantial part of its monetary value from the fact that it is novel, rare, bizarre, or because of its association with some historical figure, period or event; proof of qualification under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like ammunition is not availible except as a curio or collector item, or that the value of like ammunition availible in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.

CITY COUNCILMEMBERS

Mike Hernandez --- hernandez@c01.ci.la.ca.us

Joel Wachs --- wachs@C02.ci.la.ca.us

Laura Chick --- lchick@c03.ci.la.ca.us

John Ferraro --- ferraro@c04.ci.la.ca.us

Michael Feuer --- council5@c05.ci.la.ca.us

Cindy Miscikowski --- miscikow@c11.ci.la.ca.us

Hal Bernson --- bernson@c12.ci.la.ca.us

Jackie Goldberg --- goldberg@c13.ci.la.ca.us

Nick Pacheco --- npacheco@c14.ci.la.ca.us

Rudy Svorinich, Jr. --- svorinich@c15.ci.la.ca.us

Ruth Galanter --- galanter@c06.ci.la.ca.us

Alex Padilla --- apadilla@c07.ci.la.ca.us

Mark Ridley-Thomas --- mjones@c08.ci.la.ca.us

Rita Walters --- council9@c09.ci.la.ca.us

Nate Holden --- holden@c10.ci.la.ca.us"






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If you can't fight City Hall, at least defecate on the steps.

[DC]

I haven't heard nor seen anything about this, thus I believe its a hoax.
Nothing on GOC website about this being law, or that it was ever even considered/submitted;
I'm with GOC and no fax/e-mail alerts;
Nothing on the news or papers and you recall the hoopla when LA County tried to ban gun shows;

Then consider the disruption/interferance/restraint of legitimate businesses.....

Nope, this is jive
*************************************

Addendum: found this on LA Times website

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Thursday, October 7, 1999


Taking a stand
Studio City brothers, 12, found Kidz Voice-LA to stem gun
violence through ammunition sales ban
By AMBER WILLARD


STUDIO CITY -- Most 12-year-olds probably spend their
allowance on toys and games, but not Niko and Theo
Milonopoulos.
The 12-year-old fraternal twins used their money to found Kidz
Voice-LA, a children's organization that seeks to eliminate gun
violence.
The boys started the group in 1997 after entertainer Bill Cosby's
son, Ennis, was killed one block from their elementary school.
Three weeks later, the North Hollywood shootout occurred near
their home.

"We heard on the news that nobody was doing anything
about it," Theo said. "Our mom said, 'Why don't you do
something?' "

The boys, now in seventh grade, went to the library to
research their options and came up with the idea of supporting a
proposed city ban on sales of gun ammunition.

"We got statistics from different companies and went to
the City Council to see if a member would put our idea into a
motion," Niko said.

The boys lobbied the council recently with a petition
signed by 7,000 children.

The same day, Councilman Mike Hernandez introduced
their motion. It now awaits a hearing by the council's safety
committee later this month.

But the brothers did not stop there.

They organized a children's rally and march against gun
violence along Wilshire Boulevard on Oct. 2

"Kids need to stand up for their rights," Theo said.

Police Chief Bernard Parks and Dist. Atty. Gil Garcetti
spoke to the crowd before the march.

"We dropped off invitations at their offices," Theo said.
"It was sort of a surprise when they showed up ... because they
have such busy schedules."

If the ammunition sales ban is passed by the City Council,
the brothers plan to take their fight to the next level: throughout
Los Angeles County.

They plan to lobby children, parents and lawmakers
throughout California to ban the sale of gun ammunition
statewide.

"We are just attempting to do what we think is right," said
the boys' mother, Constantina Milonopoulos.

"We know that as kids we don't have a lot of rights," the
boys said in a statement at the march. "But don't we at least have
the right to grow up without the fear of being shot?"

FYI

For more information about Kidz Voice-LA, call (323)
654-3588.

Feedback to BlvdOurTimes@earthlink.net [/quote]
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!



[This message has been edited by DC (edited November 11, 1999).]

[Jim Keenan]

Now the Hitler and Stalin wannabees are getting kids to front for them.

Jim

[ARshooter]

The city of LA is proposing a law that will ban ammo sales in the city. Big deal. People will just go to another nearby city to buy it. It will only hurt the merchants.

But this is the first time I have read about the reloading portion. The way it reads, just giving a press to another person will land you in jail. When was the last time a gangbanger reloaded his own ammo? Give me a break. There is a large reloading store called "The Reloading Center" in Van Nuys (part of LA) that sells mostly reloading components and the associated tools. If passed, it will put them out of business or they will have to move.

This is just another example of government getting too powerful and taking away our rights.

[bullseye]

Yea, ban the ammo sales. That will definately keep it out of the hands of the criminals. But as the 'little elitists in training' said, it's for the children - where have we heard that before? When are these people going to wake up? All this hype does is penalize the wrong people, the law abiding citizens.

[jimpeel]

I have a couple of Angelenos working on this one for us. One has responded that the misspellings in the original post give him pause. He says that he will check the L.A. City Council website and see what has been posted.

[Shotgun]

If this turns out to be a hoax, don't rejoice just yet. It is only a matter of time until they go after the reloaders and components. I am surprized that it has not happened yet.

[George Hill]

Somebody needs to buy these kids a Sony Play Station to keep them occupied. After that - take them hunting and stuff. Let them meet Karl Malone.

If that doesnt set them straight...
Well - Make them read BEST DEFENSE and do a detailed 5 page book report.
If that didnt work...
Invite them to jump in a lake.

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE

[oberkommando]

I think these kids should be dressed in brown.... SHIRTS THAT IS.

[bookkie]

Yep it's the mind set of the hitler youth camps. Was debating yesterday with a liberal who is fairly reasonable about the ban on assault weapons. Each item he brought up I showed either stat's that proved his point wrong or proved it wrong by logic. He agreed on every point exept for one. This was... "those people who own those type of guns are the ones with the personalities who are the GI joe type and are the ones who should have their guns taken away". It is so burned into his head that these gun owners only have them to live out their killing dreams that nothing will change it. This is what we are up against folks. It's exactly the same thing that Hitler did and used before and during WWII. We now have a group in this country with the stars on their chest and they are not jews.



------------------
Richard

The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!

[DC]

I talked to a friend in LA about this:

Besides the PR thing the kids are doing, the only thing he has heard is that there will be a temporary ban on ammo sales a few days prior to Jan 1.

Rationale is that the city wants to minimize yahoos shooting guns in the air at the new year. Apparently this has happened too much during past new years and this has been talked about quite a bit. FWIW

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!

[Oatka]

Apparently there is something to this.

Check out http://news.excite.com/news/pr/99111...-public-safety

Note the Nov. 15th dateline. Los Angelenos, bestir yourselves!

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If you can't fight City Hall, at least defecate on the steps.

[Jeff Thomas]

Bookie, next time you run into a yahoo like that, consider calling him / her a 'bigot'. They are gun bigots. They are intolerant of your philosophy and mine that we have a right to self defense, and quality self defense at that. They are guilty of making gross stereotypes about people they probably don't even know to any reasonable degree.

They are bigots, pure and simple. They don't give a damn about our civil rights, they don't believe in diversity, and they don't believe in empowerment. Liberals have been throwing those words around forever - they sure as hell deserve some 'incoming' at this point.

[cornered rat]

What do you think is the probability that not all restrictions will be lifted after Jan.1, 2000?

[Brett Bellmore]

Cornered Rat: Unity, I'd say. Now, a better question is, what's the probability of this RKBA amendment proposition getting on the California ballot? THAT would be one wild fight!

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Sic semper tyranus!

[Brett Bellmore]

Cornered Rat: I'd say that probability aproaches unity so closely the difference isn't worth computing.

So, what do you think the probability is that this RKBA ballot intitative will qualify? Now, THAT would be one wild fight!

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Sic semper tyranus!

[G-Freeman]

"We know that as kids we don't have a lot of rights..." So lets do all we can to ensure we don't have any by the time we become adults.

[Contender]

Freeman, Excellent Comment!

You get to spin the big prize wheel.

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Without the 2nd Amendment,the Declaration of Independence is an old post card and the entire Constitution is just notes from a bridge club meeting.

[jimpeel]

I got a reply from my friend in LA who is an NRA director. This is what he wrote to my query "Do you know anything about a proposed ban on ammunition and RELOADING SUPPLIES in the City of LosAngeles?"

[i]Just what it says here:

Los Angeles Public Safety Committee Council to Review Gun
Legislation On November 15 That Would Force Citywide Ban of the
Sale of Ammunition

Guns & Ammo Magazine Calls Public and Hobbyist's Attention
To Proposed Ordinance

LOS ANGELES, Nov. 12 /PRNewswire/ -- A draft of a proposed
ordinance to ban the retail sale of ammunition and its
components in the city of Los Angeles was sent by Assistant City
Attorney Henry Morris to the Board of Police Commissioners for
their "review and comment" on October 27; this is prior to a
scheduled meeting of the Public Safety Committee of the City
Council on Monday, November 15, 10am, at City Hall.

With only certain exceptions, the ordinance would repeal existing
Sections 55.09 and 55.11 of the Los Angeles Municipal Code,
revising Section 55.09 to ban the sale of all ammunition defined
by Section 103.314 of the Los Angeles City Code. This also
includes ammunition components, ammunition magazines,
speedloaders and possibly reloading centers and hobbyist shooting
ranges.

Notes Kevin Steele, Group Publishing Director of EMAP Petersen
Outdoor Group, publisher of Guns & Ammo Magazine, the leading
voice of the shooting hobby: "We are amazed that nothing has been
brought to the public's attention about this ordinance. The
public has the right to know how this will compromise their
rights.

"In light of the controversy surrounding these issues, we were
also surprised that this was the first we heard about it. We and
the public have not read, seen or heard any mention of this
proposed ban in any LA area media."

[jimpeel]

By the by:

Pursuant to the ammo sales ban, that has been going on for several years now. The number of air shootings is insane. I don't know if you have ever heard the news play the audio on New Years but it is impressive. I have been there and heard the gunfire and you know that they aren't shooting at the ground.

A friend of ours had a Mobile home in Orange County and woke up on 1/1 to find a .30-30 slug on the hallway floor. Chalk up one roof repair.

I found a spent slug in the street in front of my in-law's house the day after New Years a few years ago.

Outdoors is one place you don't want to be.

The police are instructed to drive their patrol cars under bridges or into underground parking structures due to the amount of gunfire. This means that from 11:55P to 12:05A, there is NO police protection in the City of Los Angeles -- period.

[Futo Inu]

Arm yourself or go back to Greece.

[Will Beararms]

Planet La La, I mean California is a lost cause I fear since the majority of the populace believes the UN progated lie that eliminating access to firearms will suddenly cause criminals to start a "massive love in".

To our brothers and sisters who are not poisoned by this idealogical manure, leave the State as soon as you can.

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

[John/az2]

The site:
http://www.channel2000.com/news/stor...16-023936.html

The story:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>L.A. Considers Ending Sale Of Bullets
Ammunition Ban Would Exempt Police Officers
LOS ANGELES, Updated 11:47 p.m. PST November 15, 1999 -- If you can't outlaw guns, outlaw the bullets.

That's the thinking behind a proposed measure that would ban the sale of ammunition within Los Angeles city limits.

On Monday, the city council took the first step toward the ban, forwarding the idea to the police commission for a response after they listened to testimony from victims of gun violence.

"We, and thousands of other kids living in Los Angeles, are afraid of being shot. Last year in our city, over 150 kids were shot," 12-year-old Theo Milonopoulas told councilmembers.

"It's a step and a start in a direction toward safety and security for us," Ruett Foster said. Foster lost his son Evan to a stray bullet in a gang shooting.

Councilman Mike Hernandez, who sponsored the measure, says he is aware that if patrons don't buy the ammunition from a store in L.A., they can simply go to any other store in L.A. County. But, he says, he hopes L.A. paves the way for other cities.

"We assume that one city takes a position, other city tends to follow," Hernandez told CBS 2 News.

But the measure already has many critics.

"It's typical that Mike Hernandez, with the big drug problem, has proposed to save the world from everything else," Bob Khan, owner of B & B Gun Sales, told the television station.

Khan says the council needs to focus on laws which do work. He says people can easily buy bullets through the mail and that this proposal is a "total lie." Khan said ammunition isn't the problem.

"The first thing is to coordinate with the federal government to put felons caught with a firearm in jail for five years. And the state and the city have never gotten together to prosecute one of these people for false registration," he said.

Khan as well as a number of other dealers will take the city to court if the measure moves forward. The council told CBS that they are expecting that and want to fight it all the way.

Police officers, retired police officers, and shooting ranges will be allowed to buy bullets and are exempt from the proposed ban.

There are only a few cities that ban ammunition sale. Chicago is one of the larger cities that does.
[/quote]

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

[Chadc]

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;""We, and thousands of other kids living in Los Angeles, are afraid of being shot. Last year in our city, over 150 kids were shot," 12-year-old Theo Milonopoulas told councilmembers. "

And how many of these "kids" were 16 - 18 year old gang bangers, drug sellers, or involved in other illegal or high risk activities?

If they'd keep the criminals in jail rather than probation, they wouldn't be out there to kill others.