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Old May 7, 2007, 11:58 PM   #1
Wren
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Obtaining an alien firearms license - WA State

Hello everyone,

I'm a relative newbie that's beginning to look into purchasing a handgun for home defense.

In researching concealed carry permits and the like, I realized that as a resident alien (Green card status), I would need an alien firearms license permit in order to own a firearm.

That looks like it could be a problem, however. I'm hoping some more experienced people on the board could clarify the following for me.

The WA state's Department of Licensing web site has a notice that reads:

"Special alert for alien firearms license applicants --
We are unable to issue alien firearms licenses at this time. The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has told law enforcement agencies it is against federal law to use federal databases for background checks if the agencies share the results with a non-criminal justice agency such as the Department of Licensing. This means law enforcement agencies cannot perform the background checks required by state law for issuing an alien firearms license. Without these background checks, we cannot complete the application process or issue alien firearms licenses."

I've searched for more information on this, but have come up empty-handed.

Does this mean that I cannot obtain a permit? Is this situation permanent?

Thanks for any info you can share.
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Old May 8, 2007, 10:38 AM   #2
MD_Willington
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Correct, no ETA on when the DOL will be allowed to issue them.

I just called them BTW, and that is the information.

So I guess I make plans for storing elswhere at the end of the year... I probably will not have possession of them until I get my citizenship in 2010...


Hey look, gun controls works, they effectively disarmed 5 (Two Canadians and three Americans in my family) law abiding citizen by the end of the year...

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Old May 8, 2007, 12:11 PM   #3
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look into a Utah CHL. From what I understand, they have full reciprocity with Washington State and since you are a resident alien you can do the course and get the licence. Check with this guy to be sure.

Good luck!
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Old May 8, 2007, 12:39 PM   #4
MD_Willington
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The Utah license will not help.

Step #1 = AFL

Allows you to retain modern firearms and ammunition

Step #2 = CPL

Allows you to carry concealed

If #1 expires, you are no longer allowed to retain firearms or ammunition, not even a single .22LR...


Cap n Ball here I come!
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Old May 8, 2007, 01:28 PM   #5
The Canuck
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So let me get this straight. In WA, you can't even purchase a firearm unless you have a license?

Wow, when did Canadian law find its way into Washington State?
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Old May 8, 2007, 02:21 PM   #6
MD_Willington
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Quote:
So let me get this straight. In WA, you can't even purchase a firearm unless you have a license?
Correct.

Since I'm a law abiding resident alien, I will not be able to purchase nor store any firearms or ammunition upon myself or at my residence.

Nothing, nada, zip, zilch etcetera.



Non-law abiding on the other hand will do what they wish, just like they already do. :barf:
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Old May 8, 2007, 07:33 PM   #7
Wren
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MD, thanks for the info. It's not what I was hoping to hear, though.

I hope we're still allowed to rent and shoot at the ranges. Ten years ago I took a basic handgun safety class at Wade's in Bellevue. I shot there on the weekends occassionally. It was a lot of fun - I hope that's still an option for me.

I'll be giving Wade's a shout to doublecheck.

Thanks again for your help.
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Old May 10, 2007, 10:58 AM   #8
Wren
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Some more info

I was searching around a bit yesterday and found that there was a bill introduced this past January that addresses the application procedures for an Alien Firearm License.

Info can be found here:

http://www.washingtonvotes.org/2007-HB-1011

Seeing that there are a few other WA state greecard holders in this forum, I thought you might be interested.
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Old May 11, 2007, 10:56 AM   #9
MD_Willington
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Wren I've got mixed messages on this issue now, DOL says they cannot do it, Senator Morton emailed me and told me to contact my sheriff, sheriff's office said they were aware of the problem and they can do the paperwork.


I'm going to go to the Sheriff's office and give it a try, from the way it has been described, the DOL is not allowed access to background checks, but the sheriff is allowed to do the check and then contact the DOL..

Confusing, but I'll be the guinea pig on this.. hopefully my $79 will not be wasted...
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Old May 11, 2007, 06:05 PM   #10
Wren
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Interesting - I thought going through the DOL was the only route.

Well, let us know how it goes with the sheriff's office. Good luck!
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Old May 11, 2007, 07:49 PM   #11
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C'mon MD...

The suspense is killing me!
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Old May 12, 2007, 01:13 AM   #12
MD_Willington
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Can't get to the sheriff until after payday next week... also my local sheriff's office is ~40 minutes away, kind of the reason why I'd rather be armed for "just in case", sure we have a Marshal, but he's only one guy...
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Old May 21, 2007, 10:54 PM   #13
JohnSL
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I received the denial by the DOL a few days ago.
That's after they had me jump through all the hoops.
My local sheriff will try t fix the problem wit the DOL. He obviously received the FBI background check.

I also talked to an attorney, who mentioned that this is a civil right violation by the DOL.

This will become very interesting.
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Old May 22, 2007, 12:02 AM   #14
MD_Willington
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I sent email to my sheriff and under sheriff, I even called them and received no reply...

I was forwarded an email from the DOL, saying they could not do it.

I wish anyone who pursues this good luck..

I'm pretty much out of cash for a new license, so my gear will be staying at my buddies house after 8/20/2007...

I guess WA State figures the 10th amendment lets them stand on clause 2 of the 14th...
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Old May 22, 2007, 08:43 AM   #15
whitebb
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Sorry that didn't work out for you. Here in Georgia I had NO problems. Never before heard of a Aliens Firearms License. I got the same one everyone else has. Got my CCW in 6 weeks without problem, and my 03ffl in 8 weeks. Since I need no permits/papers to buy guns there is no problem there either.
Maybe you need to move to a friendlier state! (I know, probably not feasible)
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Old May 23, 2007, 01:17 PM   #16
MD_Willington
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Not feasable... damn, I knew I should have bought a house next door in Idaho...
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Old June 4, 2007, 01:54 PM   #17
MD_Willington
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Finally a reply!

Sheriff's secretary contacted me... no licenses will be issued...

:barf:
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Old March 7, 2008, 10:36 AM   #18
MD_Willington
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EVERY WASHINGTON STATE RESIDENT THAT IS READING THIS

Please email everyone on this list right now and ask them to support ESHB 3148.

For all legal residents, green card holders etcetera, please contact or email everyone on the list and tell them you do not want to be discriminated against like I did.

from Joe Waldon

Quote:
Under RCW 9.41.170, resident aliens residing in Washington must acquire
an Alien Firearms License (AFL) before being allowed to possess a
firearm. Washington is one of only a couple of states that still retain
this holdover from “immigrant Jim Crow” days, despite the fact that
resident aliens already must pass a background check before acquiring
resident alien status.
Possession of a firearm by a resident alien,
without an AFL, is a felony.
Quote:
Dear Senator

Please support ESHB 3148 and ask that it come up for a vote today. ESHB
3148 corrects a technical glitch that places hundreds of Washington
residents at felony risk. The bill passed unanimously from both the
House of Representatives and the Senate Judiciary Committee. Vote “AYE”
on ESHB 3148 TODAY.

The Legislative Hotline number is 1-800-562-6000

If you don't know what "Jim Crow" laws are.. they were mainly disciminatory laws against African Americans, but the term can also be applied to any group that is discriminated against, read here:

http://www.google.com/search?source=...=Google+Search
Attached Files
File Type: txt wa senators.txt (1.2 KB, 14 views)
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Old March 7, 2008, 11:16 AM   #19
JaserST4
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Big deal. I don't see the problem. Get the license and then buy what you want. Become a citizen before you start demanding citizen's rights and hurling Jim Crow BS around.
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Old March 7, 2008, 11:36 AM   #20
MD_Willington
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Old May 5, 2008, 10:36 AM   #21
erlkonig
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I feel ya!

I need my fix... and I don't want to get ripped-off on ammo @ the range!

Check this out. Has things stalled?
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...r=2007#history

Last edited by erlkonig; May 5, 2008 at 11:20 AM.
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Old May 20, 2008, 07:55 PM   #22
allserene
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ok Washington State

I have arrived and bought a 1250cc Suzuki Bandit and a canoe and an outboard and a lawn mower and a gas strimmer. We are talking serious boys toys acquision month

and now ? well I would like a .22 LR single shot target rifle to use on the range that is 400 yards away from my house. I joined my first rifle club in 1964

But no - I am an ALIEN ! I have an unconditional 10 year green card but I am not eligible for citizenship for 2.5 years. My wife is a born US Citizen and she could buy a big gun but I cant even shoot clay pigeons

I have already had 12 months of FBI checks and a strip down intrusive medical exam by the U.S Embassy doctors in London and spend years and thousands of dollars getting my green card

My family has been investigated too and all my affiliations and theirs.

So I pass all this intensive scutiny to be told I have to do it all again with the FBI - but they won't do it anyway and it's a stalemate

The U.S. has it's most important base in the world only 10miles from where I used to live. It's called Menwith Hill in Yorkshire and is of number one importance for intelligence gathering and interception of Russian Military traffic and the first target for a Russian atom bomb. U.S. service personnel there and everyone else in the UK are afforded the same rights so it's a new concept to me to be sorted into left and right lines

I have brought 3 pensions and more than a million bucks to spend here in Washington State - I have filed U.S. Taxes in February and I am contributing to the U.S.A big style

I have contacted a couple of representatives who say the alien's license is all on ice until the next 3 month legislative session next year

When U.S. Citizens hear of ALIENS having problems I am sure they imagine some seedy illegal immigrant and get quite 'anti' and don't want to support us.
I hope some of this story might encourage fellow shooters to lend their moral support to this alien's firearms license problem which is disadvantaging safe, solid people, many homeowners, and many of whom are married to U.S. born Citizens and who are contributing to the U.S. treasury and who can contribute to the shooting world in all sorts of ways

This ban on people like me has no advantage to any Citizens and especially Citizen shooters - only disadvantages
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Old May 20, 2008, 08:04 PM   #23
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Quote:
Become a citizen before you start demanding citizen's rights and hurling Jim Crow BS around.
Yup, you don't find my rear in Mexico or Canada trying to buy a gun. Either go back to your own Country, or wait until your legal here. Simple enough.
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Old May 20, 2008, 08:19 PM   #24
allserene
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You won't get a rise out of me so easily Mr Copenhagen because I am mature.

If all American shooters were of the same opinion then they would struggle to get support for their rights which will gradually become under threat

So it benefits shooters to support each other no matter what the ethnicity of their fellow shooters is

There is no advantage to American Citizen shooters to turn away those who would add power to their elbow

I am not going back to 'where I came from'. I have put too much into this to do that. I am going to stay here and eventually become a Citizen and then I will work politically to disarm those shooters who are not safe to have a gun because of their nasty mentality and anti social personality disorders. At the same time I will press for safe responsible well adjusted people to have guns no matter where they came from.

That would be my right when I become a Citizen ?
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Old May 20, 2008, 10:35 PM   #25
copenhagen
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Quote:
no matter what the ethnicity of their fellow shooters is
Ethnicity? Who cares what ethnicity you are? I know I don't. Are you sensitive or something?

Quote:
That would be my right when I become a Citizen ?
Yup, when you become a citizen, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

If we let non-citizens have every right, then next thing you know it, it will be OK to come over here illegally, go to school free, get free health care, etc. Oh wait, I think that already is OK. While I firmly support your right to keep arms, and I would encourage you to own one now (how you get it I don't really care), I don't see the point in you complaining when you are not a citizen. I would never have the audacity to go to another country and complain to them about their laws, even if/after I became a citizen, it would take years before I felt like I really belonged and had the right to complain. Be respectful, and wait your turn, that's all I'm saying.
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