Centerfire pistol for college gun club

RKV · May 26, 2007, 05:37 PM

Hi all, I'd like to request you input. I advise two college gun clubs here in beautiful Santa Barbara, People's Soviet of Kalifornia. Courtesy of the Friends of the NRA we already have 5 Ruger Competition .22s for pistol marksmanship training. A new grant year is coming up and I am interested in adding centerfire pistols to our collection for training with the college students. I have and shoot a few pistols, and have my preferences, which I am sure will not be the ones for the kids (I own 3 Series 70 Colt National Match pistols, so you know what I like). What do you suggest for a group of smart, motivated and modestly capable college kids to learn to shoot centerfire pistol with? It turns out that we have a falling plate setup at our range (Winchester Canyon Gun Club), so a caliber that is capable of playing that game is desired (which pretty well knocks out 9mm). I looked at the S&W M&P today and that looked pretty good (and will fit smaller hands [we have a number of young ladies who participate]). Factory reconditioned Glocks have also been suggested, but the grip seems too big. Help?! Even a revolver like the Smith 686 might work. Any of you folks teach a large enough group of new shooters to know what's good for starters? Thanks.

RsqVet · May 26, 2007, 05:46 PM

If it's just for pure sportsmanship than I'd get a few ruger or smith 4 inch 357 revolvers or a mix of 4 and 6 inch... that way you can go 38 to 357 for more advanced use or falling plate targets.

The revolver also allows you to train on DA and SA trigger modes.

If you then want to add a centerfire semi-auto or two I'd add 1911's and Sigs, a slim 1911 fits many people and sig has some great guns as well that are DA / SA, preferably the all stainless guns for durability.

If the club has a number of people intrested in LE as a career I'd certainly add a glock or two to give them the experince, it does have a huge market share in LE, if that's the point of the club however for long term club ownership I honestly would stay away from any polymer, Steel guns can be refinished / refurbished in a numebr of ways and kept working and looking sharp (which you want to some degree if you want to give pleasure / pride to the club members), while at some point tired old polymer just looks like, well tired old polymer... it will keep working I have no question but sure will leave a bit to be desired otherwise.

RKV · May 26, 2007, 06:22 PM

Point well made, maybe a mix is where I'll have to go. Even the Rugers we have now (as capable and nice as they are) are just not for some folks. We had a young lady who got a lot better once she borrowed one of the instructor's Hi-Standards. Hmmmmm.

newerguy · May 26, 2007, 09:25 PM

The type of shooting you do is also going to determine what kind of pistols or revolvers you want. If it's bullseye, a 1911 is hard to beat, because that's what most bullseye guys shoot for centerfire (I've shot bullseye matches with a 4 inch K-frame revolver, shooting DA, which is my own favorite handgun, and I wasn't the lowest score, but I was real close, even I shoot better bullseye with a 1911). If you are looking to attract people, you might want to get a few GLOCKS, maybe used. The are popular on TV, and people might show up to shoot them. I'm not a huge GLOCK fan, but they are fine pistols, and not really any harder to shoot than anything else out there. I think they'd be fine to teach on.

I don't recomend getting too many different guns, because you don't want to be giving 5 different sets of instructions to new shooters. (OK, #1 load six rounds, and close the cyl., #3 and 4, load your magazine and close the slide, #6, 7, and 8, make sure the safety is off; No #1...you don't have a safety, Yes, #4 you do, but yours isn't a decocker...BANG... OK, who pulled the trigger? FROM #3, "I thought mine had a safety?")

**JohnKSa** · May 26, 2007, 10:04 PM

If I had to buy a relatively small number of identical handguns to outfit a fairly large group of people, I'd buy revolvers for the simple reason that you can change the grip fairly radically on a revolver to tailor it to a variety of shooters.

chris in va · May 27, 2007, 12:53 AM

Wow.

A) College

B) Gun club

C) Santa Barbara

D) California

Did ah...hell freeze over or something?

RKV · May 27, 2007, 08:18 AM

But we do have two college gun clubs in SB. One, at Westmont is formal and approved by the administration. The other is informal and together we have about 40 active members. If I could figure out how to post a photo I would. Since I can't here's a link to "film at 11."
http://www.wcgc.org/ See the collegiate shooters link on the left.

The kids are great, and we have one primary event per quarter - orientation/familiarization for rifle, pistol and shotgun and plenty of other trips to the range for small groups. Thanks to the Friends of the NRA we have funds for ammo, and now 5 Ruger .22 pistols.

I'd like to encourage the members here and tell them that it can be done, even here in the People's Soviet. I figure this is better than me sending money to the Alumni Association (I'm a UCSB alumnus). If you want to know more I have a 3-4 page writeup on how we did it. If we shooters don't encourage more people to learn to shoot, this sport will go the way of the woolly mammoths.

Thanks guys for your inputs btw.

Rimrod · May 27, 2007, 10:09 PM

I vote for the revolvers too. I'm not a fan of the new S&Ws, which is of no concern for your intentions, but their "round butts on everything" could be the answer you're looking for. The actual grip size is realatively small and can be adjusted to just about any size with replacement grips.

In my experience it seems women like the revolver better too, when they are first learning how to shoot.

I remember a young lady I went through the police academy with that had to hold the backstrap of her revolver in the first joint of her thumb to shoot it. Once she got the hang of it she did very well.

Waitone · May 27, 2007, 11:06 PM

Determine how you will acquire ammo. Costs vary widely caliber to caliber. The best of all worlds is to reload and find someone who reloads as the savings will be substantial.

That said, store bought ammo ranges from $10/550 rnds of .22LR
--to $9 / 50 rnds of 9mm
--to $9 / 50 rnds of .38spl
--to $14 / 50 rnds of .40SW and .45ACP

WESHOOT2 · May 28, 2007, 07:40 AM

Opinion:

My local USPSA club just did this: we ran a New Shooters Clinic, normally geared towards new-to-IPSC shooters.
However, this year, my co-host and I had the privilege of having the University of Vermont (talk about left-leaning...) Shooting Club come partake.

They shoot shotguns.

That said, of the 6-or-7 young people who came, only one had never-ever shot a handgun.
Careful fitting (by me) led the newbie to a loaned lightly-modified CZ75.

She, after a half-day's class, rocked on our afternoon's new-shooter stage.

Fitment.

That said, a S&W M&P (5"?) chambered in 9x19 makes the very-most sense.
For starters......

RKV · May 28, 2007, 04:36 PM

Yep, the more I think about it, the more ammo costs dominate the equation. Walmart Winchester white box at $13 per hundred sounds much better than $27/box of 100 for the .45. Over a 15 year life that's a big difference in operating costs since each pistol will likely see a 600+ rounds a year. I guess we have to give up on the falling plates. Oh well. As for pistols vs. revolvers, it seems if you can shoot a pistol you can shoot a revolver, but not necessarily the other way around. Hmmm. I wish I liked Glocks better, but I know the young ladies in the group would have problems.

NRA-LIFE-MEMBER · May 31, 2007, 11:07 AM

I didn't think guns clubs existed in the educational environment. My son was looking at schools and I saw Penn State and a couple others that mentioned Gun Club - but upon more investigation I didn't think they were still active..

Manedwolf · May 31, 2007, 01:02 PM

Beretta 92 or Taurus PT92 also, I'd say. If anyone is in ROTC or goes into military service, they'll appreciate having already had experience. Plus they'll last FOREVER.

bob k · May 31, 2007, 03:03 PM

If funds, and your grants permit, you might want to consider a progressive reloader set up for whichever caliber you decide on.
Bob

RKV · May 31, 2007, 08:08 PM

and here's a link with details on collegiate shotgun shooting
http://marian.creighton.edu/~besser/...p/college.html
and here's one for rifle teams
http://www.rose-hulman.edu/Users/spe...ges/links.html

BTW I looked at the Beretta's and no go. Yes its a good gun and yes the guys who are going military (and we have several) could use the experience. Bad news - its really too big for some of the girls in the club. The XD was suggested to me by one of our members, a young lady who owns an XD40 and REALLY likes it.

May 26, 2007, 10:04 PM	#5
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 12,202	If I had to buy a relatively small number of identical handguns to outfit a fairly large group of people, I'd buy revolvers for the simple reason that you can change the grip fairly radically on a revolver to tailor it to a variety of shooters. __________________ Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association? Check out Black Bear Flashlights. Gun Shows this Weekend.

May 27, 2007, 08:18 AM	#7
RKV Junior Member Join Date: February 24, 2006 Posts: 6	Nope, Hell didn't cool down But we do have two college gun clubs in SB. One, at Westmont is formal and approved by the administration. The other is informal and together we have about 40 active members. If I could figure out how to post a photo I would. Since I can't here's a link to "film at 11." http://www.wcgc.org/ See the collegiate shooters link on the left. The kids are great, and we have one primary event per quarter - orientation/familiarization for rifle, pistol and shotgun and plenty of other trips to the range for small groups. Thanks to the Friends of the NRA we have funds for ammo, and now 5 Ruger .22 pistols. I'd like to encourage the members here and tell them that it can be done, even here in the People's Soviet. I figure this is better than me sending money to the Alumni Association (I'm a UCSB alumnus). If you want to know more I have a 3-4 page writeup on how we did it. If we shooters don't encourage more people to learn to shoot, this sport will go the way of the woolly mammoths. Thanks guys for your inputs btw.

May 27, 2007, 11:06 PM	#9
Waitone Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2000 Posts: 2,913	Determine how you will acquire ammo. Costs vary widely caliber to caliber. The best of all worlds is to reload and find someone who reloads as the savings will be substantial. That said, store bought ammo ranges from $10/550 rnds of .22LR --to $9 / 50 rnds of 9mm --to $9 / 50 rnds of .38spl --to $14 / 50 rnds of .40SW and .45ACP __________________ "Given a choice between good intentions and human nature, I'll go with human nature every time."--Me, 2002.

May 28, 2007, 07:40 AM	#10
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: new year, new dimension; still Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 10,879	belly of the beast Opinion: My local USPSA club just did this: we ran a New Shooters Clinic, normally geared towards new-to-IPSC shooters. However, this year, my co-host and I had the privilege of having the University of Vermont (talk about left-leaning...) Shooting Club come partake. They shoot shotguns. That said, of the 6-or-7 young people who came, only one had never-ever shot a handgun. Careful fitting (by me) led the newbie to a loaned lightly-modified CZ75. She, after a half-day's class, rocked on our afternoon's new-shooter stage. Fitment. That said, a S&W M&P (5"?) chambered in 9x19 makes the very-most sense. For starters...... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

May 28, 2007, 04:36 PM	#11
RKV Junior Member Join Date: February 24, 2006 Posts: 6	9mm/.38/.357 Yep, the more I think about it, the more ammo costs dominate the equation. Walmart Winchester white box at $13 per hundred sounds much better than $27/box of 100 for the .45. Over a 15 year life that's a big difference in operating costs since each pistol will likely see a 600+ rounds a year. I guess we have to give up on the falling plates. Oh well. As for pistols vs. revolvers, it seems if you can shoot a pistol you can shoot a revolver, but not necessarily the other way around. Hmmm. I wish I liked Glocks better, but I know the young ladies in the group would have problems.

May 26, 2007, 05:37 PM	#1
RKV Junior Member Join Date: February 24, 2006 Posts: 6	Centerfire pistol for college gun club Hi all, I'd like to request you input. I advise two college gun clubs here in beautiful Santa Barbara, People's Soviet of Kalifornia. Courtesy of the Friends of the NRA we already have 5 Ruger Competition .22s for pistol marksmanship training. A new grant year is coming up and I am interested in adding centerfire pistols to our collection for training with the college students. I have and shoot a few pistols, and have my preferences, which I am sure will not be the ones for the kids (I own 3 Series 70 Colt National Match pistols, so you know what I like). What do you suggest for a group of smart, motivated and modestly capable college kids to learn to shoot centerfire pistol with? It turns out that we have a falling plate setup at our range (Winchester Canyon Gun Club), so a caliber that is capable of playing that game is desired (which pretty well knocks out 9mm). I looked at the S&W M&P today and that looked pretty good (and will fit smaller hands [we have a number of young ladies who participate]). Factory reconditioned Glocks have also been suggested, but the grip seems too big. Help?! Even a revolver like the Smith 686 might work. Any of you folks teach a large enough group of new shooters to know what's good for starters? Thanks.

May 26, 2007, 05:46 PM	#2
RsqVet Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Posts: 1,910	If it's just for pure sportsmanship than I'd get a few ruger or smith 4 inch 357 revolvers or a mix of 4 and 6 inch... that way you can go 38 to 357 for more advanced use or falling plate targets. The revolver also allows you to train on DA and SA trigger modes. If you then want to add a centerfire semi-auto or two I'd add 1911's and Sigs, a slim 1911 fits many people and sig has some great guns as well that are DA / SA, preferably the all stainless guns for durability. If the club has a number of people intrested in LE as a career I'd certainly add a glock or two to give them the experince, it does have a huge market share in LE, if that's the point of the club however for long term club ownership I honestly would stay away from any polymer, Steel guns can be refinished / refurbished in a numebr of ways and kept working and looking sharp (which you want to some degree if you want to give pleasure / pride to the club members), while at some point tired old polymer just looks like, well tired old polymer... it will keep working I have no question but sure will leave a bit to be desired otherwise.

May 26, 2007, 06:22 PM	#3
RKV Junior Member Join Date: February 24, 2006 Posts: 6	No one size fits all Point well made, maybe a mix is where I'll have to go. Even the Rugers we have now (as capable and nice as they are) are just not for some folks. We had a young lady who got a lot better once she borrowed one of the instructor's Hi-Standards. Hmmmmm.

May 26, 2007, 09:25 PM	#4
newerguy Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2005 Posts: 218	The type of shooting you do is also going to determine what kind of pistols or revolvers you want. If it's bullseye, a 1911 is hard to beat, because that's what most bullseye guys shoot for centerfire (I've shot bullseye matches with a 4 inch K-frame revolver, shooting DA, which is my own favorite handgun, and I wasn't the lowest score, but I was real close, even I shoot better bullseye with a 1911). If you are looking to attract people, you might want to get a few GLOCKS, maybe used. The are popular on TV, and people might show up to shoot them. I'm not a huge GLOCK fan, but they are fine pistols, and not really any harder to shoot than anything else out there. I think they'd be fine to teach on. I don't recomend getting too many different guns, because you don't want to be giving 5 different sets of instructions to new shooters. (OK, #1 load six rounds, and close the cyl., #3 and 4, load your magazine and close the slide, #6, 7, and 8, make sure the safety is off; No #1...you don't have a safety, Yes, #4 you do, but yours isn't a decocker...BANG... OK, who pulled the trigger? FROM #3, "I thought mine had a safety?")

May 27, 2007, 12:53 AM	#6
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 7,212	Wow. A) College B) Gun club C) Santa Barbara D) California Did ah...hell freeze over or something?

May 27, 2007, 10:09 PM	#8
Rimrod Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Behind enemy lines Posts: 1,310	I vote for the revolvers too. I'm not a fan of the new S&Ws, which is of no concern for your intentions, but their "round butts on everything" could be the answer you're looking for. The actual grip size is realatively small and can be adjusted to just about any size with replacement grips. In my experience it seems women like the revolver better too, when they are first learning how to shoot. I remember a young lady I went through the police academy with that had to hold the backstrap of her revolver in the first joint of her thumb to shoot it. Once she got the hang of it she did very well.

May 31, 2007, 11:07 AM	#12
NRA-LIFE-MEMBER Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 89	I didn't think guns clubs existed in the educational environment. My son was looking at schools and I saw Penn State and a couple others that mentioned Gun Club - but upon more investigation I didn't think they were still active..

May 31, 2007, 01:02 PM	#13
Manedwolf Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Posts: 3,266	Beretta 92 or Taurus PT92 also, I'd say. If anyone is in ROTC or goes into military service, they'll appreciate having already had experience. Plus they'll last FOREVER.

May 31, 2007, 03:03 PM	#14
bob k Member Join Date: January 20, 2007 Posts: 25	Ammo Cost If funds, and your grants permit, you might want to consider a progressive reloader set up for whichever caliber you decide on. Bob

May 31, 2007, 08:08 PM	#15
RKV Junior Member Join Date: February 24, 2006 Posts: 6	Yep Colleges Still Have Gun Clubs and here's a link with details on collegiate shotgun shooting http://marian.creighton.edu/~besser/...p/college.html and here's one for rifle teams http://www.rose-hulman.edu/Users/spe...ges/links.html BTW I looked at the Beretta's and no go. Yes its a good gun and yes the guys who are going military (and we have several) could use the experience. Bad news - its really too big for some of the girls in the club. The XD was suggested to me by one of our members, a young lady who owns an XD40 and REALLY likes it.