Taurus: Value vs Price/Performance

[hj28rules]

I have a Model 66 4" .357 revolver and my fiance has a Millineum Pro PT111 9mm. We take these firearms to the range frequently and have had no problems/issues with either weapon. My fiance, T-Rex likes her 111 and I like my 66. We also have:

S&W (V).38spl (T-Rex)
Ruger 9mm P95C (T-Rex)
Para Ord Tac 4 (.45ACP)
CZ75B (9mm)
CZ83 (.380)
Ruger MKIII (.22lr)

We find ouselves taking the Taurus firearms to the range more frequently than the others. I usually include one of the CZ's.

With that said, I see a lot of discourse on the internet involving problems with Taurus. As of yet, we have found no problems with the gen3 production of these weapons. The only American made firearm we have is the S&W M10(V) .38.

I also have a Colts HBAR15A3 and a Henry Golden Boy.

We love to shoot and both of us have CCW.

The question is:
Why so much Taurus bashing?
Just like to know and don't want to create a big issue here.

LM...Ft. Worth, Tx
PO1 USN: 1964-1972 Viet Nam Vet
SFC US ARMY: 1982-1996 Desert Storm Vet (ret.)

[Desert Heat]

I have a Taurus 66 and have no issues, but that doesn't mean that I am going to get one of their semi autos. I have shot a lot of Taurus semis and are not impressed and they don't have a very good track record. They seem to be improving a lot on their quality control.

If Taurus has been working for you go for it, like I said the 66 has been good to me. For a CCW gun that I put my life on I want a revovler or a high quality semi. I use the CZ-82 for a CCW and love it.

[JR47]

Actually, the PT92 and PT100 seies is probably Taurus' most long-lived series of semi-auto. They have an excellent reputation. Some of the Taurus semi-autos have had problems during initial runs. Just as S&W, Colt, Ruger, Sig, and HK did. It seems that we have a small, but dedicated, group of people who live to bash anything that doesn't retail above the $1000 mark.

They'll be right along. See how many of them have actually owned a Taurus, and how many bought a weapon with an obvious defect, and are complaining about their lack of foresight.

[Ozzieman]

I own a 445 Taurus right now and it did have some problems sticking in double action, it required some work on the forcing cone to clear the defect.
With that said I feel there worth the money but there not as good as the original that there copying. Take any Taurus wheel gun apart and compare them to a Smith of the same type and you can tell the difference in finish and fitting.
This does not make them a bad gun just not as refined.
Taurus makes some good guns but some need work to be able to trust them but that is true for all makes and models of guns.
I am glad you like them and the one that I own now I like and will keep.
But the reason that I keep the 445 is that it’s the only gun like it on the market. It’s a snub wheel gun that looks a lot like a Smith Mod 60 but it shoots 44 special. This to me is Taurus's name to fame. Making different guns that no one else does.

[Playboypenguin]

I will start by saying that I have no real problems with the quality of Taurus' product. I own three. A Taurus PT92FS, which is a fine gun;a m731, which is a fine lil' .32mag; and a m65, which is the oldest gun in my collection. Fifteen years and over a thousand rounds later it still looks and functions like new.

Like I have said in the past, Taurus (IMHO) gets bashed alot for two main reasons...

1. I feel that Taurus suffers a bit when it comes to quality control and they tend to let a few more lemons slip by that the other manufacturers would have caught before shipping. When a person gets a lemon just once it leaves a very bad taste in their mouth and can cause a permanent negative impression. These people can continue to bash taurus for years afterwards because of one bad gun. Guns are not cheap and getting a bad one is not only a bummer but it hurts the wallet too.

2. Plain and simple snobbery. Alot of people just do not like the idea that a company puts out a quality product at a low price. These are usually guys who are looking for reasons to validate their love of over-priced firearms or guys that just don't like the way taurs products look or shoot. (And yes that falls under gun snobbery..I am a gun snob because I do not like the way plastic autos look or shoot..I will admit it)

I myself think Taurus makes a fine product but I do not prefer them. I will spend a little more money on a Smith simply because I like the asthetics better.

[Majic]

Taurus steel revolvers have generally been very good revolvers. Most of the bashing have come from S&W fans as the Taurus closely resembles the S&W. They seem to nitpick the Taurus to death to justify paying the higher price for the S&W. As to the pistols the models following the Beretta design (PT-92/100/58) have been as good or better than all it's competition. Like the Smith fans, the Beretta fans find little faults in the Taurus so the higher price tag of the Beretta doesn't seem so harsh. I say anything about the other Taurus pistols as I have no experience with them.
Taurus does seem to give a good value for your dollar, but there will always be snobs who will refuse to accept anything but their chosen brand. If you have a Taurus that has proven to be reliable, accurate and durable what more could you ask for no matter whose name is stamped into the metal?

[firestorm9mm]

I own many Tauri and will buy more in the near future. I have no problems with them. The one that I had a problem with was fixed fast and for free. With that said I like my Smith's and springfields and every other gun that I own. I think some poeple still relate todays taurus with some of their first models. The company has come a long way and makes a good firearm. Just my 2 cents.

[RevolverLover]

The only American made firearm we have is the S&W M10(V) .38.

Don't forget your Rugers, Colt AR, and Henry Golden Boy are also American made firearms.

Why so much Taurus bashing?
Just like to know and don't want to create a big issue here.

I've had five Taurus revolvers and all but one has had problems. So I only kept the M85 because it was the only one that worked right.

[bcrash15]

I recently picked up a Taurus model 65. I've been quite pleased with the gun so far. The only issue I have in fit/finish is that the forcing cone doesn't seem to be quite square, as the gap is slightly different on the left and right side. I asked a gunsmith about it casually and he said if it was his gun he wouldn't bother sending it in because what most manufacturer's would do in that situation is just mill some material off the tighter side to make it even. Anyway, it also shoots a little to the left, but not so much that I would consider it a lemon, but I do wish I held out for the model 66 now (the shops' warehouse didn't have any in stock.)

[Manedwolf]

I find that bashing of modern Taurus handguns is mostly done by people who tried one over twenty years ago, or knew someone who had a friend of a cousin of an inlaw of an uncle who did. It's jingoism, a me-too way to contribute nothing to a conversation.

You can usually identify this sort of basher by their lack of knowledge...they tend to say things like that Taurus just makes cheap copies of other makers' guns, which hasn't been true for decades. They know nothing of the 24/7s, MilPros, or latest Total Titanium or Tracker revolvers, all original designs.

And with their innovation of the past few years, it's like trashing a modern M-4 based on the issues with the original 1960's M-16A1.

[elrod]

Bought a 24/7 in .40 about a year ago, have run about 500 rounds (several ammo makers, mostly elcheapo) with 0 FTF and only one FTE (stovepipe). Only thing not to like is trigger in DA. I am considering a PT 1911 at present.

[earshot]

i've got a taurus model 627 tracker 4" 7 shot.the gun has done me no wrong ,it's just that i'm no good with the shorter guns. i've also got a 28-2
4" same story. i'm probably ging to sell the taurus or if possible trade it for a
627 6" inch.

secondly,i own a taurus 45 colt model 460 6" barrel that shoots well
and has done everything i could ask. this is my bad weather gun.

lastly iam soon to become the owner of a taurus 44 special 6",
and i am confident this gun will also serve me well.

i've got a smith &weson 29-3 that's gives me more headaches than my taurus'.

someday i'd like to get a raging bull in 454 and a taurus lighting rifle.

taurus had some problems years back but they jumped on quality control and since are starting to produce some decent weapons.they have got to be doing something right they are still in business..

now don't start telling about buy american.i'd like to check your home and office just to see how many actually made american you own or work with.

dan

[MPanova]

I won 9 Taurus pistols and plan on picking up atleast 4 or 5 more in the next year os so

I have a 24/7 Pro 45 I picked up last summer I am trying to put as many rounds through as possable. Right now I am coming up on the 10,000 round mark. Should be there by this time next month. I clean it every 500 rounds or so and it has been 100% thus far. All the ammo used in that one has been CCI Blazer Brass. I have another 24/7 Pro 45 I picked up in January that is my carry piece. I also carry my PT145 at times and my PT1911 once in awile. My wife carrys her PT111 mostly and the PT25 once in a blue moon. All of the Taurus pistols I own have over 500 rounds through them with out a single problem and many of them like the 24/7 mentioned above and my wifes PT111 and my PT1911 have thousands upon thousands of rounds through them. I have sold GLOCKS,Colts, and Smiths to purchase more Taurus semi-autos that I had been wanting. Other then Taurus pistols all I have left in the collection is a first gen. Sigma with about 5000 rounds through, and my very first pistol I ever bought, a Ruger P90 with more then 40,000 rounds through it and it still runs strong. I also have a Beretta NEOS

[Qwiks draw]

As a owner of a PT111 Mil/pro, PT22, model 65,66,85CH, and 94, all Taurus that Taurus does put out decent products. All of these have given excellent service and some are 15+ years old. Longevity and dureability have been the bywords.

In 2005 Taurus won three prestigious awards in the gun industry overall as well as several NRA awards about the same time or even more recently.

The 3 major awards are as follows: Shooting Industry Manufacturer of the Year; National Association Of Sporting Goods Wholesalers of the Year; SHOT Business Manufacture of the Year.

So Taurus has to be doing something right and putting out good products.Otherwise these would not have been awarded. Competition is fierce. These awards are not just handed out.

" Conventional Wisdom" to the contrary Taurus is doing things right for the most part. And...."Conventional Wisdom" is not always wise.

[seeker_two]

Taurus guns are a lot like American automobiles.....the models that they've been making for a long time (PT-92, 85, 941, Millenium Pro, PT-908/910, etc) are great guns worth having and better values than most anything on the market.....

But...when a new model comes out, you want to wait a year or two so the bugs can be worked out via warranty returns and manufacturer's redesigns (i.e. the PT-145's w/ cracked frames or Titanium revolvers binding in the first run...now, they've solved these problems). But, this can be said for most any mass-production manufacturer's guns these days... caveat emptor ...

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Taurus....an older one, that is......

[BerettaBuckeye]

From my personal experience....

Taurus handguns are generally a good bang for the buck. The quality of the guns themselves is usually pretty good but Lord help you if you need to send a gun for repair. I am a former Taurus lover turned hater by the horrible, rude customer service I received on a warranty repair. Lie to the customer to get them off the phone seems to be their motto. I currently only own only one Taurus and although it's a great gun I will never buy another. With me it's that whole "fool me once...." thing

[hj28rules]

Thanks for all the input, troops!
I took the 66 to the range this morning and fired .357's for the first time. It will do fine. Way more accurate than any of my semi-autos and they are pretty good inside 15meters.
I am a S&W fan but my wallet is not. This revolver will see duty primarily as a rattlesnake/cottonmouth shooter at my retirement land in West Texas. We have alot of nasty varmits this year. We will be doing some brush hoggin' this summer and my fiance and I will feel comfortable with her S&W M10 and my Taurus 66 both loaded with CCI rat shot.

Your comments are appreciated and I feel vindicated with my choice of the "66."
Happy Trails to all who took the time to respond. Good shooting, be safe and God Bless all of you, all our children who are fighting overseas, those who have given their lives and the Second Amendment here at home .

From an old soldier....

LM...Ft. Worth, Tx.
PO1 USN: 1964-1972 Viet Nam Vet
SFC US ARMY: 1982-1996 Desert Storm Vet (ret.)

[Qwiks draw]

Topic

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Awards in 2005 as follows: Shooting Industry Manufacturer of the Year award, National Association of Sporting Goods Wholesalers Manufacturer of the Year, and SHOT Business Manufacturer of the Year.
NRA awards were more recent but would have to research to see which two they were.

So Taurus is doing something right. Bashers and trolls ignore that completely.

The latest bash technique is to say that Customer Service is unresponsive or insulting to callers. That may have been true a year ago or more. Those staff at Taurus that did that are all fired and gone.

Since I have contacted Taurus Customer service to ask questions several times this year responses were positive in each case.

Time in getting the gun back however can still be a source of frustration though.

Losing the gun is another favorite basher technique. "They don't know where it is and still don't", goes the cry. Trolls are still kicking that one around every chance they get. That is not true either. They have been tracking where guns go pretty well.

The above is a quote I used in another post in another thread. Taurus recieved 3 awards in 2005 and several more from the NRA and other sources in the last year or so.

So Taurus is doing things right for the most part. Manufacturers have to work hard to get these awards.

Bashers , whiners, and trolls ignore this exclusively. "Conventional Wisdom" to the contrary, Taurus is putting out decent products. "Conventional Wisdom" is not always wise.


This is a quote from another forum by yours truly. I thought it needed to go on record here even though this thread is pretty much at an end.

Trolls and bashers will try to open new avenues of attack when the old ones are proven false. The litany of untruthful complaints runs the whole spectrum of Taurus negativity. Expect more to follow.

[slow944]

I have 2 of their Semi-auto's. I have the MILPRO PT140 and the PT145. Both are very fine guns. I used the PT145 to renew my CHL, with which I had no problems and I used CCI Blazer ammo. I think people that bash the Taurus Company haven't tried their newest guns yet.

[MD_Willington]

I spent ~ 200 on my PT-111, it goes bang when I pull the trigger, never had a problem with it.

No complaints here.

[pdkflyguy]

I owned a PT-140 for a few years, then sold it. When I bought another one, the salesman actually said 'Now don't shoot this too often, or you'll just have to send it to get repaired. There's a reason this one only costs $350."

First of all, that's asinine. A gun that breaks because you use it for it's designated purpose? Come on, sheer lunacy.

Secondly, why would you tell the person who just bought this gun from you that it doesn't work well. Bad salesmanship.

Thirdly, I put over 1000 trouble-free rounds through my first one in under a year. Yes, I maintained it very well, but I'm sure it would still have gone bang otherwise.

Lastly, Taurus offers a great warranty, one of the best in the industry. It makes no economic sense to offer that good a warranty if you actually believe that you will constantly be repairing your own products. Companies only offer great warranties when they know that only the rare occasion will cause their gun to ever come back to them.

Speaking to their value, I can only say this. I spent $850 to get my HK USP. That gun is awesome, I've NEVER had a single problem with it. I can hit everything I aim at up to about 25 yards. I spent $350 to get my Taurus PT-140. That gun is also awesome, and I've NEVER had a single problem with it, either. I can hit everything I aim at up to about 15 yards. Do those extra 10 yards make a difference when I'm betting my marksmanship against my friend at the range? You bet. Would they make a difference in a real-life self defence scenario? Not a chance. Anything beyond 15 yards is going to be hard to defend in court, so I think that the Taurus is a great VALUE. Maybe not the best gun, but if I had a choice between buying a Taurus for $350 and actually carrying it, or saving for a few more months to buy something else, I wouldn't waste my time, I'd just buy the Taurus.

[Uncle Salty]

I've owned several Taurus handguns over the uears. My first was a Millennium PT140, 500 rounds later I sold it when I wanted something else. Next was a .480 Raging Bull. I set it up with a Nikon scope, and a Bandito holster from Pistol Packaging. Great gun, very fun to shoot. Sold the rig to a disabled hunter whou couldn't lug a rifle around anymore. Next up was a 617 Titanium .357 - another solid performer.

My newest Taurus is The Judge with a 3" barrel. This is the best one yet, and a keeper for sure. Shoots 45LC and .410, it's got to be fun! I talked myself into it (granted it didn't take much talking) for use as a grouse gun while at elk camp with the first 2 rounds chambering Remington Extended Range #6, and the last three chambered with Winchester Silvertip HPs in case I wander upon something a little more threatening. Bear Country, reintroduction of the wolf. You can never be too careful...at least that's what I tell myself. Did I mention it's fun to shoot? For my field carry I purchased a chest carry rig from WestWoods Landing. They have the best all around, versital setup going. If you carry The Judge, you owe it to yourself to check them out. Even if you don't they are certainly worth a look.

Anyway, long story short: I've never had anything but good luck with my Taurus handguns. Are there lemons? Probably, but I haven't gotten one yet. My only experience with their Customer Service was so-so. I had to make a second call, but everything was straightened out and I was taken care of prefessionally.

[TWB]

Quote: "Why so much Taurus bashing?
Just like to know and don't want to create a big issue here."

My experience: Six Tauruses, five of them complete POS. Extensive experience with their (No) service department, with three gunsmiths and a firing range employee also attempting to obtain service on my behalf. I NEVER, not once, received any service over two years. I DID receive some great promises, though.

I have a 5 shot .38 spl that seems okay. Tauruses' track record is so bad that I'll never trust the gun.

No big issue here. I was slow learning my lesson. There are too many better quality firearms to be had, and life is too short to gamble on Tauruses.

Glad you've had a good experience.

twb

[Kreyzhorse]

I have to get on with my Taurus bashing.... But at least I warned you up front.

I owned one Taurus bought NIB. It was a Model 85. I love the fit, finish and it fit my hand well. The gun seized up after 200 rounds or so and I no longer own it.

I thought it was a great value when I first bought the gun due to its lower price point. I confused price vs value where price is what you pay, but value is what you get. I'll never buy another Taurus.

And yes, lots of people have had good experience with Taurus, but lots have had bad luck too.

[JR47]

My experience: Six Tauruses, five of them complete POS. Extensive experience with their (No) service department, with three gunsmiths and a firing range employee also attempting to obtain service on my behalf. I NEVER, not once, received any service over two years. I DID receive some great promises, though.

Did the gun ever make it to Taurus? It seems a little strange that, with all of those weapons, none of them, in two years, ever "received any service". Did you try sending them yourself?

There is also the nature of the POS. I've seen people who simply couldn't shoot send pistols back three and four times for inaccuracy, only to have the factory, which used a Ransom Rest, ship it back, unaltered. Or those who send a weapon back because the trigger doesn't meet "their" spec, only to be told that it "is within factory specifications". These rapidly became crusades against Ruger and S&W.

Some of these claims seem almost impossible. Entire orders of Taurus sent back, six pistols in two years, five of them failing. I often wonder about just how far they've been embellished.

Out of several hundreds of rifles, pistols, and shotguns that I've dealt with through the years, I haven't had as many troubled weapons as some of you report routinely. Odd.