Questions from a new shooter.

EMTfromSeattle · July 13, 2007, 11:44 PM

Hello everyone. I have recently taken up the sport of rifle shooting. I just bought a Savage 12FV in .223. I mounted a Bushnell 3-9X40 scope and a Harris Bipod.

I took it to the range today to break it in and zero the scope. After having the range master help me zero my scope, I found that I was able to shoot 10 rounds inside 2 inches at 100 yards. I know that may not sound great to some of you, but I was happy about it.

So here are my questions:

1) I noticed that after 10 or so rounds, my groups started rising. Is this because the barrel is heating up?

2) After shooting about 50 rounds, I removed the bolt and cleaned the rifle, but then I noticed that I still had 10 rounds left over. So I shot them. But when I went out to my target, it looked like a shot gun had hit it! the rounds werent grouped like they were before. The only thing I can think of is that the cleaning process may have done something to affect my shots. Is this true, and if so, how long should I wait after cleaning to shoot again? I usually go shooting about once a week.

Thanks for all the input!

Cheers!

EMT

dmazur · July 14, 2007, 12:24 AM

1. Vertical stringing can be caused by problems with barrel to stock fit.

2. Shouldn't have anything to do with cleaning, and it sounds like you cleaned it from the breach (which protects the muzzle). After this many rounds, the scope may have loosened. I believe a loose scope can easily explain "scattergun" groups, and it doesn't have to be very loose...

nobius · July 14, 2007, 12:31 AM

Plus set screws (the screws that hold the action to the stock) Check all of these for tightness. This being a new rifle, sometimes it takes a few trips to the range for all of the kinks to be worked out. You should probably also check the bipod to make sure it didn't work itself loose.

It could also be a simple case of shooter fatigue. I have been shooting rifles for many years now and find myself dealing with that from time to time, but it does get better with time spent "on scope"

Good luck with your troubleshooting and welcome to your new addiction.

P.S. 10 shots in 2" for a first range trip with a rifle is quite a feat.

RedneckFur · July 14, 2007, 12:49 AM

A hot barrel can cause groups to open up. All of my rifles will open up, or even string rounds if you get the barrel hot enough. I've been having the same troubles with my .22 mag that youre having with your savage. I've found that its best to shoot slowly, 1 or 2 miniutes between shots. (take a watch, its longer than ya think

)

EMTfromSeattle · July 14, 2007, 01:44 AM

Thanks all! Ill check out the scope/set screws and make sure they are tight. Will I have to rezero after I tighten everything down?

As to the overheated barrel, my rifle has the heavy varmit barrel which (says the gun store guy) helps resist shot misplacement from a hot barrel.

Oh, one more thing that I just remembered... the guy next to me was talking about getting my rifle glass bedded, and as he was explaining what that was, decided to grab MY rifle and jiggle the barrel around in the stock to prove his point. As this was previos to my disasterous last 10 rounds, could he have screwed something up?

EMT

Scorch · July 14, 2007, 03:05 AM

A few things come to mind:
* Your rifle needs to be bedded. Glass bedding is one way, and most likely anyone who you take it to would propose that.
* You cleaned the rifle, and then the shots scattered? If you shot through a freshly cleaned barrel and it shot exactly the same, I would be surprised. The first few shots out of a clean barrel typicaly go somewhere other than where your last group went.
* Not likely your companion broke anything when he jiggled the barrel around, but if the action screws were not tight it conceivably could have moved. Not very likely, but who knows? If your rifle is not pressure bedded, the barrel could easily have moved somewhat in the barrel channel, moving the point of impact.

Fremmer · July 14, 2007, 11:08 AM

I doubt he screwed anything up when he shook the rifle. If he was able to shake something loose, something already needed to be fixed, anyway. Check to make sure the screws are nice and snug.

That barrel will heat up pretty quickly, so you have to let it cool down. The bedding he's talking about will prevent the action from shifting around in the stock after you take a shot, so it makes things more consistent. But before you have that done, try some different ammo (several brands). If you find the right load, I'll bet that the rifle can do better than a 2" group, and you may not need to have any further work done.

July 13, 2007, 11:44 PM	#1
EMTfromSeattle Junior Member Join Date: July 13, 2007 Posts: 3	Questions from a new shooter. Hello everyone. I have recently taken up the sport of rifle shooting. I just bought a Savage 12FV in .223. I mounted a Bushnell 3-9X40 scope and a Harris Bipod. I took it to the range today to break it in and zero the scope. After having the range master help me zero my scope, I found that I was able to shoot 10 rounds inside 2 inches at 100 yards. I know that may not sound great to some of you, but I was happy about it. So here are my questions: 1) I noticed that after 10 or so rounds, my groups started rising. Is this because the barrel is heating up? 2) After shooting about 50 rounds, I removed the bolt and cleaned the rifle, but then I noticed that I still had 10 rounds left over. So I shot them. But when I went out to my target, it looked like a shot gun had hit it! the rounds werent grouped like they were before. The only thing I can think of is that the cleaning process may have done something to affect my shots. Is this true, and if so, how long should I wait after cleaning to shoot again? I usually go shooting about once a week. Thanks for all the input! Cheers! EMT

July 14, 2007, 12:31 AM	#3
nobius Member Join Date: July 8, 2007 Location: Upstate, SC, USA Posts: 73	Scope mounts Plus set screws (the screws that hold the action to the stock) Check all of these for tightness. This being a new rifle, sometimes it takes a few trips to the range for all of the kinks to be worked out. You should probably also check the bipod to make sure it didn't work itself loose. It could also be a simple case of shooter fatigue. I have been shooting rifles for many years now and find myself dealing with that from time to time, but it does get better with time spent "on scope" Good luck with your troubleshooting and welcome to your new addiction. P.S. 10 shots in 2" for a first range trip with a rifle is quite a feat. __________________ http://www.conserv-eral.blogspot.com "I aim to misbehave" - Captain Malcolm Reynolds

July 14, 2007, 03:05 AM	#6
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 6,686	A few things come to mind: * Your rifle needs to be bedded. Glass bedding is one way, and most likely anyone who you take it to would propose that. * You cleaned the rifle, and then the shots scattered? If you shot through a freshly cleaned barrel and it shot exactly the same, I would be surprised. The first few shots out of a clean barrel typicaly go somewhere other than where your last group went. * Not likely your companion broke anything when he jiggled the barrel around, but if the action screws were not tight it conceivably could have moved. Not very likely, but who knows? If your rifle is not pressure bedded, the barrel could easily have moved somewhat in the barrel channel, moving the point of impact. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. http://www.johntaylormachine.com/ http://yourhealthshows.com

July 14, 2007, 12:24 AM	#2
dmazur Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 503	1. Vertical stringing can be caused by problems with barrel to stock fit. 2. Shouldn't have anything to do with cleaning, and it sounds like you cleaned it from the breach (which protects the muzzle). After this many rounds, the scope may have loosened. I believe a loose scope can easily explain "scattergun" groups, and it doesn't have to be very loose...

July 14, 2007, 12:49 AM	#4
RedneckFur Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2007 Location: Sotheastern US Posts: 1,322	A hot barrel can cause groups to open up. All of my rifles will open up, or even string rounds if you get the barrel hot enough. I've been having the same troubles with my .22 mag that youre having with your savage. I've found that its best to shoot slowly, 1 or 2 miniutes between shots. (take a watch, its longer than ya think )

July 14, 2007, 01:44 AM	#5
EMTfromSeattle Junior Member Join Date: July 13, 2007 Posts: 3	Thanks all! Ill check out the scope/set screws and make sure they are tight. Will I have to rezero after I tighten everything down? As to the overheated barrel, my rifle has the heavy varmit barrel which (says the gun store guy) helps resist shot misplacement from a hot barrel. Oh, one more thing that I just remembered... the guy next to me was talking about getting my rifle glass bedded, and as he was explaining what that was, decided to grab MY rifle and jiggle the barrel around in the stock to prove his point. As this was previos to my disasterous last 10 rounds, could he have screwed something up? EMT

July 14, 2007, 11:08 AM	#7
Fremmer Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2005 Location: Nebraska Posts: 3,486	I doubt he screwed anything up when he shook the rifle. If he was able to shake something loose, something already needed to be fixed, anyway. Check to make sure the screws are nice and snug. That barrel will heat up pretty quickly, so you have to let it cool down. The bedding he's talking about will prevent the action from shifting around in the stock after you take a shot, so it makes things more consistent. But before you have that done, try some different ammo (several brands). If you find the right load, I'll bet that the rifle can do better than a 2" group, and you may not need to have any further work done.