Shooters vs Wannabes, a little soapbox rant

[LICCW]

I recently decided to sell off my firearms and "start over". I kept my G26, which is my carry weapon, and my 870. I bought a Socom 16 as a tactical defensive rifle(home def, Katrina situations, etc), and a Marlin XLR 30/30 as my hunting rifle (deer). Anyway I decided to do this because I felt I had become one of the consumer gun owners. Buying up guns because they were cool, or the latest thing out, or "tactical". I had the ARs with all the bells and whistles, AKs, Benelli autoloaders, 1911s, you name it, I've had it. Yet I began to feel I didn't really "know" my rifles and pistols. I shot them, cleaned them, etc, showed them off to buddies, but I started to feel like an idiot. Like the guys at the range who pretend to be a SWAT Cops wearing black fatigues and talking lots of "tactical" BS, while shooting a scoped M1A to 50 yards and patterning not grouping. Or the guys with the tricked out race 1911s who go shoot IDPA and are slower than the old timers with a 5 shot snubbie. A lot of people talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. I decided to trim down to a basic set of tools, and really, really gain profiency in each before allowing myself to start collecting again. Guess I want to know that I actually know my weapons, not just look like I do. I just wanted to get that off my chest. My wallet and my conscious are now lighter and clearer.

[Manedwolf]

But how are you going to feel when the Democrats ban all the things you once owned, but can now never purchase again?

That's why I agree with people who say "never sell a gun unless it just doesn't work, or doesn't work for you."

Like the guys at the range who pretend to be a SWAT Cops wearing black fatigues and talking lots of "tactical" BS,

Um. Don't take it the wrong way, but that's the market the SOCOM 16 was meant for, hence its name. The gun has no association with or approval by the United States Special Operations Command. It's just a marketing cachet thing. You're still a consumer gun owner, 'cause you bought that. I mean, you say you bought it to be a "tactical defensive rifle"...tactical? Are you gonna be clearing houses in an Ickystan with it? Raiding drug labs? Who else is on your squad? What are your tactics you're tactical with? See?

Me, I took a Norinco MAK and rebuilt it into a solid utility post-disaster rifle with a folder, able to be easily stowed or slung and carried around if I should ever find myself in a Katrina-like situation. It's got an EOtech, folding foregrip and a light. Not "tactical", just what I decided would be most useful if I had to fend off armed looters and LEOs could not come. I'm familiar with every little part of it, since I assembled it myself according to what I like. I did not buy a gun, I made a gun. That, to me, is the distinction of when you're not just a consumer, but a shooter, since instead of buying a premarketed package and adapting to it, you're starting with a chassis, so to speak, and building it to be what suits how you shoot.

I can appreciate wanting to narrow it down to a few guns to get proficient with them, but buying a premade marketed-to-tacticool-sorts SOCOM 16 while getting rid of all the other guns is still kinda...buying into the wannabe image, isn't it?

Just something to think about. If you want to "be a shooter", the best thing to do is handle different guns, try different guns, find what you like and dislike, and end up with your own special firearms that suit exactly your style and needs, rather than just buying one already tricked out. From "I like that grip!" to "Hey, I shoot better with this sight vs. that sight". For instance, I know that I'm miserable with the grip angle of Glocks, hence I don't own any. I found Hogue grips to work best for me, so they're on my semiautos. I prefer fiberoptic sights to tritium sights, and so on. That, to me, is how you go from consumer to shooter.

[Smokey Joe]

LICCW--That's why gun ownership/shooting/hunting/etc. qualifies as a hobby. You do it to please YOU. You set the rules, then abide by them or change them.

('Course I mean the rules of what to own/not own, and what to do/not do with 'em--I'm not talking about making up your own safety rules here!! Nor about breaking laws.)

If you were doing it as an employee there'd be all sorts of stupid Company procedures & precedents.

If you were doing it for profit, you'd have to please the customers.

But you ain't! You have no one to please but yourself--You are a majority of one. So, decide what you want to do, and go for it! Let those with contrary opinions go and buy their own stuff!

Want a SOCOM, get a SOCOM! Want to Bubba a milsurp--Buy one and unlimber the hacksaw! Like mouseguns?? Shoot a mousegun! And while you're at it, thank God it's still a free country, and let's work to keep it that way!

[SIGSHR]

Bubba a milsurp-puhleeze! "Sporterzing" a milsurp is taking a $200 gun, putting $300 into it and turning it into a $100 gun. Sell it to one of us collectors and buy what you really want.
And yes, I think the shooting sports are big enough to accomodate everybody. I am a steel and walnut man myself, have no use for plastic, polymer, aluminum, scandium and all these new fangled materials, no use for
"safe" actions, DAO, etc., etc., etc., but if that's what your heart desires,
go right ahead. I am not even into customizing, prefer my guns as close to
stock as possible, but that's me.

[rellascout]

LICCW--That's why gun ownership/shooting/hunting/etc. qualifies as a hobby. You do it to please YOU. You set the rules, then abide by them or change them.

Why does everyone always look for validation on personal decisions? If you want to sell all your guns go ahead. If you never sell a gun thats cool to. Its your hobby so its your decision.

What you do is right for you but is not necessarily right for anyone else.

Why do we need validation of our choices. If you are happy be happy if not go get your guns back before the shop sells them.

[joshua]

Validation is always nice, but just because I like to shoot and talk IPSC/USPSA stuff doesn't make me a hot shot. It's a hobby and you're having fun with it. Don't be too judgemental of the folks enjoying their hobby. On the other hand you can sell and buy whatever you can, it's a free country, right? josh

[Rmstn1580]

I would never sell a gun. If we're over run by someone *coughthesoutherncountrytouscough*, I don't care if I know every intimate detail about it, I just want it to go boom and rip the person in half that I want

[Limeyfellow]

But how are you going to feel when the Democrats ban all the things you once owned, but can now never purchase again?

I imagine the same way I felt when the Republicans banned all the things I wanted to purchase, especially by banning their imports, banning new machine guns, massive restrictions and now I can't even get a barrel imported for a military style rifle. Both political parties tend to screw us gunowners over. Its just some are more open about it than others.

[azredhawk44]

Like the guys at the range who pretend to be a SWAT Cops wearing black fatigues and talking lots of "tactical" BS, while shooting a scoped M1A to 50 yards and patterning not grouping.

Anyway... it pains me, as it does you, to see a wannabe at the range making a perfectly capable firearm "pattern" but unfortunately there's no personallity/IQ test on a 4473 form.

I hereby declare humbrage at these statements.

[humbrage]

I own a scoped M1A scout. It's a 4x33 leupold fixed power. I shoot it at 25 yards for right now, until I get my shooting into 1" consistently, on demand, every shot. I shoot off-hand, from prone, from kneeling, from standing. No bench. I use the sling for support, but never a bench.

No SWAT gear, no black (or green) fatigues, no tactical BS.

But you wouldn't know that watching me at the range... All you'd see is a guy with a scoped M1A shooting at a pretty close target.

And my targets pattern, not group, at that range. If they grouped at that range, I'd have one ragged hole. I don't.

I want to see someone post a target, at 25yards, that they shot OFFHAND (no cheating with benches, rests or mechanical toys) and kept inside of a 1" target. At least 5 rounds inside a 1" target.

On a good day I can keep all 5 inside a 1.5" target... a month ago it was within a 2" target.

I used to shoot from a bench... and realized that I'd have to drag a bench with me everywhere I went if I needed to use the rifle for defense or hunting. I adapted my practice accordingly.
[/humbrage]

[tdeater]

I did not buy a gun, I made a gun

Manedwolf, That says all!

[The Tourist]

LICCW, not only is everything said here true, but people evolve over time. I still have my combat .45's except now they shoot pop cans.

For example, there are many biker forums where they waste far too much bandwidth on "who's a real biker." I once posted that, by definition, Iwas one once, but now I was clearly a non-biker. Yikes, you'd have thought I kicked somebody's dog!

Many people project their self worth on the things they own, the hobbies they have or the people they know. It's a trap.

Do you like your collection? Is it fun to participate in the events you like? If some of the firearms you own are a layer of defense for your home and family, are they the best choices?

If you answer "yes," then the clown bathed in tattoos and parading around in cammie pants is the poser.

Enjoy your life.

[22-rimfire]

Your choice. I don't "know" all my guns because the majority I have never shot nor has anyone shot except the factory. I couldn't even tell you what I own unless I looked it up. I do know what I shoot and what I shoot varies from month to month and year to year. Sounds like you were just looking for a fresh start.

[Justme]

I shoot a rifle pretty well, a handgun so-so and a shotgun for crap. My brother with almost identical experience is the exact opposite. I don't understand how a guy who can hit moving targets at 50 yards with a security six can't make a group at the same distance with a rifle, but there you have it.

At 25 yards I could shoot 1-2 inch groups off hand with a .22lr and iron sights, unless the target moved at which point it would have to be as large as a house for me to hit it at all. At 10 yards I "pattern" instead of "group" with my sp101 or kel-tec.

Luckily I learned some time in my late teens that you can't actually die from embarrasment or I would never take my handguns to the range and I would sell all my shotguns just so nobody would ever see how pathetic I am at hitting moving targets.

The only thing that ever bothers me at the range is when a certain group of local LE types are there and the shoot that damn shotgun. It's a 12 gauge with what must be a 12" barrel and I flinch everytime they shoot the thing. It is fun to see all the smoke and fire though.

[oldbillthundercheif]

I own all those "wannabe" guns you mentioned. I don't care what you shoot, but don't preach about what I shoot.

Your choices of a plastic cube and a good rifle mangled into some short goofy thing with a bad history of reliability issues over other solid designs and a rant spewing forth your twisted excuse for logic makes me doubt you have a leg to stand on here.

Keep it in your pants next time.

[chris in va]

What is that saying, 'beware the man with only one rifle', etc.

I know what you're saying, you can definitely buy too much into all the 'fluff' offered out there and not really get to know each one intimately.

It's true of other hobbies as well. I ride my motorcycle every day, just about. Only been doing it 1.5 years, but compared to guys on their $20,000 whatevers I probably have more mileage under my belt than they've had after 5 years. You see all this chrome and neon junk plastered to the bike and wonder if they'd freak out riding in a rainstorm.

Personally I like to keep my firearms collection simple and pared down to what I know I'll use, and try to get additional training with them.

[johnbt]

"What is that saying, 'beware the man with only one rifle', etc."

And somebody else said "Beware...because it probably hasn't been sighted in since the Carter administration."


LICCW - Next time please let me know when you're having a sale.

John

[LICCW]

Oldbillthunderchief: Who ****** in your coffee today? Geez! I don't care what anyone chooses to shoot, as long as they try their best, take it seriously, and don't try to be something they are not. I see too many guys top to bottom in the lastest mil-spec camo acting like they are about to deploy to Iraq, when they are actually about to deploy to their cubicle in the office. You can disagree with me, take offense, whatever. My thread sure ain't gospel. Just a little rant. But don't talk bad about my G26. Its like calling my kid ugly.

[BreacherUp!]

Why the hell are so many people worried about what other people think about them.
This will be an online therapy forum at this rate.

[The Tourist]

I see too many guys top to bottom in the lastest mil-spec camo

Boy, you got that right!

My favorites are the guys who wear black T-shirts imprinted with the phrase, "Send Me."

I always offer them a lift to the army recruiters' office.

No takers yet.

[Derius_T]

Buying up guns because they were cool, or the latest thing out, or "tactical". I had the ARs with all the bells and whistles, AKs, Benelli autoloaders, 1911s, you name it, I've had it.

AND EXACTLY what, pray tell is wrong with that? Those are all perfectly valid reasons to buy a gun aren't they? You aren't going to spend all your time huddled in a bunker holding your glock and muttering about commies are you? Your gonna get out and have some FUN, FUN, FUN with those toys aren't you? It ain't all about self defence man.....

[Manedwolf]

Geez! I don't care what anyone chooses to shoot, as long as they try their best, take it seriously, and don't try to be something they are not.

I've seen someone in a fedora shooting a Thompson, probably running through lines from The Untouchables in their head.

I have a Tokarev TT-33, which is technically obsolete, but the wide-eyed "***?!" looks and people coming to my lane I get when I fire that thunderous flamethrower at a range are part of the joy of having it.

I have a Taurus Judge for silly fun, since I can handle it like an old Walker Colt and shoot down clay pigeons (410 shotshells) with it like something out of a movie.

I just went and tried out a bunch of machine guns, including a gorgeous 1918 BAR, sending a string of 30-06 downrange to smack bowling pins around. That served no purpose, but was FUN!

I've bump fired an AK, which won't let you hit the broad side of a barn, but is certainly fun!

Basically...guns are fun. Why take then seriously all the time? You are not part of Special Operations Command, but you bought a "SOCOM" rifle...aren't you pretending to be something you're not?

[RevolverLover]

Geez! I don't care what anyone chooses to shoot, as long as they try their best, take it seriously, and don't try to be something they are not. I see too many guys top to bottom in the lastest mil-spec camo acting like they are about to deploy to Iraq, when they are actually about to deploy to their cubicle in the office.

Whats wrong with people doing that? It's their money and they are allowed to do whatever they want just as long as its in a legal manner and hopfully safe.

Basically...guns are fun. Why take then seriously all the time?

Exactly, not all firearms have to be for self-defense.

[support_six]

LICCW, you and I think very much alike! Although I don't, and have never had the collection you did, my thoughts were, "Am I a gun collector/builder, or a shooter?" I couldn't become proficient with all my arms so I chose one in each category and sold the rest. Now I spend more time shooting and less time collecting. IOW, I spend more on ammo than hardware. The only place where "our" approach has fallen apart is with the M1 Garand. I've purchased 9 of the things from the CMP, mostly because they aren't being made anymore (forget the Springfield Armory, Inc. clone), and I wanted one for each member of my family as a legacy.

Apparently you've touched a nerve here with some. Probably because they have some hidden feelings of guilt that they are struggling with, some who will never admit it.

...and this "never sell a gun" rubbish! An administration that finally makes guns illegal to own will also make them illegal to shoot. I've got enough for self defense. Drive on, LICCW!

[Manedwolf]

Probably because they have some hidden feelings of guilt that they are struggling with, some who will never admit it.

It's guilt to say "shoot what you like, own what you like, have fun, who cares what anyone else thinks" rather than having a 2x4 up your (ahem)...about being very serious about it?

Funny, I call it "self confidence", myself.

Some people have short memories, too. The AWB wasn't long ago.

You just keep on being serious. I have my serious guns for serious things, ones I've built up myself. Other than that, you'll have to excuse me, as I'm considering having an 1878 Vetterli converted to centerfire so I can shoot it, because it's fun. I suppose that means I'm pretending to be a Prussian soldier in the 19th century.

[Trapp]

I've bump fired an AK, which won't let you hit the broad side of a barn, but is certainly fun!

You need more practise!!! If you can get to where you can bumpfire from the shoulder, it is MOBD "Minute of Barn Door" accurate.