223 55 grain ball vs 62 grain ball

Rpn1984 · August 11, 2007, 02:07 AM

i was wondering the differance between the 55 grain ball round and the 62 grain ball round both being lead cores..i was mostly concerned about the stopping power of the two and swith one might be more effective against an intruder

Rpn1984 · August 11, 2007, 03:04 AM

anyone have any ideas?

.45&TKD · August 11, 2007, 03:09 AM

55 grain is better for home defense. Higher velocity means more yaw/tumbling and less over pentration.

FS2K · August 11, 2007, 03:25 AM

7 grains! Just Kidding!

When it comes to .223 bullets, not all designs are created equal. Even when dealing with "Ball" or solid tip Ammo. The military versions of the rounds you mentioned (XM193 55gr. and the M855 62gr.) both have a Boat-Tail design to the bullets used in them. When talking about say, some Remington Green Box .55gr. rounds they don't. Anyway, the Ammo Oracle article over on AR15.com goes into the differences between these and the other types of bullet designs and what could be expected from them performance wise.

You're question is a loaded one rpn, (no pun intended) as there are a few other factors involved that govern a rounds potential as a defensive round, such as Barrel Twist Rate and bullet Velocity, (critical with fragmental rounds, and governed by barrel length) but when ALL IS SAID AND DONE...

It is my humble opinion that basically ANY good quality factory loaded ammunition can be used with confidence in a self-defense situation.

If you wanted to get real serious about high performance defensive rounds? Get yourself some 77gr HPBT Sierra Match Kings and use a AR15 with a 1:7" twist and you are Good to Go. (out of a 16" barrel minimum if you believe the scientist types of course.)

joshua · August 11, 2007, 07:05 AM

I'd rather use 64 gr. Super-X® Power-Point® for the first 4 rounds and if the intruded still won't go down then 62 grain mil ball should be used aimed at the intruder's head. If you meant an intuder in your house, most of the rounds from a 223 even ball ammo should break up according to what I have read. josh

**Art Eatman** · August 11, 2007, 08:09 AM

Unless your house is a helluva lot bigger than my house, I don't see where it would make one iota of difference between a 40-grain bullet and a 70-grain bullet.

I suggest that at ten yards or so, the recipient of the unexpected present won't know the difference, nor care.

Art

c4igrant · August 11, 2007, 09:46 AM

For defense, you really need to look at the Hornady TAP line. The BH's 77gr MK's are also an excellent choice.

C4

Zombie Steve · August 11, 2007, 12:41 PM

Ammo Oracle is a wealth of knowlege on the subject. +1
I like the TAP ammo too, but they are pretty pricey. I found the 50gr American Eagle hollow points are a great value, and produce some real nasty wounds on varmints (4 legged I'm sure about... haven't tried them on the 2-legged kind, but I have a good idea of what to expect).
http://www.ammoman.com/images/223-hollow-pt.jpg

bennnn · August 11, 2007, 04:40 PM

Quote:

I suggest that at ten yards or so, the recipient of the unexpected present won't know the difference, nor care.

Art,, I have always loved your style man..... The unexpected present indeed........

All facts an figures aside for a minute,, here's another little funny for ya,,

Quote:

wondering the difference between the 55 grain ball round and the 62 grain ball round both being lead cores..i was mostly concerned about the stopping power

You don't have to worry about ball ammo's stopping power at that range no matter what the projectile weight,,, It won't stop..... It'll just pass right on through...

Now that I've had my little joke... I know,, you mean stopping power as in
"Stop 'em in their tracks"

In that case,, in your house,,,, your best friend is a shotgun.... And I don't mean a slug gun.... If there is anyone in the house downrange of you but your proverbial intruder,,, it doesn't get any safer than a shotgun my friend.

There's my $.02

RockyMtnTactical · August 11, 2007, 08:19 PM

There are plenty of good self defense offerings. I am partial to 68gr OTM for a variety of reasons...

but I prefer 55gr XM193 when I can get it as my all-purpose ammo and that is mostly what I have stocked away...

itman · August 11, 2007, 08:52 PM

Quote:

7 grains! Just Kidding!

I was going to say that.

ursavus.elemensis · August 11, 2007, 08:57 PM

Unless the bad guy breaks in while I am literally standing at the gun safe, with the door open, then he is not getting to see my AR. I've got neighbors with kids on all sides of my house. Plus, what if I miss because he ducks or I am nervous, or something like that? Then he gets to grab the AR. No, I'm not playing around if someone breaks in. They're getting a shotgun blast. End of story.

bennnn · August 11, 2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

No, I'm not playing around if someone breaks in. They're getting a shotgun blast. End of story.

I want to put that in my sig line....

MisterPX · August 12, 2007, 01:19 AM

Quote:

You don't have to worry about ball ammo's stopping power at that range no matter what the projectile weight,,, It won't stop..... It'll just pass right on through...

Don't know where you heard that misinfomation, but a house distances, and even further than that, the M193 and to a leeser extent, the M855 will fragment, and give the assailant a very bad day.

GATMOG · August 12, 2007, 01:50 AM

Yay Fragment!!!

**Art Eatman** · August 12, 2007, 09:12 AM

Well, Bennn, it seems to me that folks apparently want to shoot one time and then look to see what happened. That's what comes across in the writing, anyway. Sorta like the guy who rarely if ever fights and then throws one punch and stops to see what was the effect.

If a reasonable and prudent person believes there is justification to use deadly force inside the home, at inside-the-home distances, my advice is to use whatever weapon with which the defender is skilled. The ammunition, generally, is irrelevant.

The idea is to change a vertical target to a horizontal object. "Stopped" is the operative word.

Inside the house, #9 Skeet from a 20-gauge is just as useful as 00 Buck from a 12-gauge. Any centerfire rifle above such as the .22 Hornet should suffice. I'd suggest 9mm Para or better, generally, for handguns.

Now, if "over-penetration" is an issue, that's a whole different thread. There is no "One size fits all." For instance, for me from inside my, I doubt if I could hit a neighbor with a .50BMG. Solid rock around most of my yard; distance, for those very few rooftops in view.

But if your walls between you and your neighbor's apartment are all that thin, forget the gun. Get several hatchets and learn how to throw them.

I fail to see why the cost of any ammo is at issue. How often in the past has it been needed? How often in the future is it likely to be needed? And, what's twenty bucks worth of ammo, compared to your annual life insurance premium? Inside the house, MOA is not relevant, so testing for group size ain't gonna be needed.

I dunno. A lot of this seems to me to be picking fly-poop out of pepper, which ain't much of a career.

Art

RockyMtnTactical · August 12, 2007, 03:22 PM

Art makes a good point... and that is, choice of ammo is a trivial choice in many cases. What matters much more is the level of training and skill of the person defending his life.

gyp_c2 · August 12, 2007, 05:44 PM

...Now Art...ya' know #8 is better from here-to-the-TV...
LOL...that #9 is better for the rapidly approachin' evil dove season...

azjohn · August 12, 2007, 07:24 PM

Here is a site that has what you could use. extremeshockusa.com Their ammo or you can just buy the bullets. I know some say you should not roll your own for home defense. You can have a misfire with either. Like Art said whatever works.Mine is 158 grain jhp in 357 mag; reloads. I trust them and have practiced with them.Next would be my shotgun loaded with whatever is the ithin reach; probably #8. I live in a bad area 30 miles from the Mexico border;drugs and illegals all around. John

Shawn Dodson · August 12, 2007, 10:19 PM

I use 55gr FMJBT with cannelure. I don't bother with anything else.

joshua · August 12, 2007, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Next would be my shotgun loaded with whatever is the ithin reach; probably #8. I live in a bad area 30 miles from the Mexico border;drugs and illegals all around.

Is there an open season for drug dealers and illegals?

How much is the hunting license and tags?

josh

**Art Eatman** · August 13, 2007, 09:40 PM

Well, a buddy of mine learned the hard way about 20-gauge and #9 Skeet. Fortunately he was out at some 25 yards and trying to widen the gap when his wife pulled trigger. "They picked shot out of me for a week!" Well, actually, some sixty pellets and then a week in the hospital.

They quit drinking. One of those, "Oh, Bill! What have I done?" "Ya shot me, ya dumb (bleep)!"

Had it been five yards, however...

Art

August 11, 2007, 02:07 AM	#1
Rpn1984 Member Join Date: December 2, 2004 Posts: 72	223 55 grain ball vs 62 grain ball i was wondering the differance between the 55 grain ball round and the 62 grain ball round both being lead cores..i was mostly concerned about the stopping power of the two and swith one might be more effective against an intruder

August 11, 2007, 03:25 AM	#4
FS2K Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2006 Posts: 1,853	Carry the two...minus 5 from 12...GOT IT! 7 grains! Just Kidding! When it comes to .223 bullets, not all designs are created equal. Even when dealing with "Ball" or solid tip Ammo. The military versions of the rounds you mentioned (XM193 55gr. and the M855 62gr.) both have a Boat-Tail design to the bullets used in them. When talking about say, some Remington Green Box .55gr. rounds they don't. Anyway, the Ammo Oracle article over on AR15.com goes into the differences between these and the other types of bullet designs and what could be expected from them performance wise. You're question is a loaded one rpn, (no pun intended) as there are a few other factors involved that govern a rounds potential as a defensive round, such as Barrel Twist Rate and bullet Velocity, (critical with fragmental rounds, and governed by barrel length) but when ALL IS SAID AND DONE... It is my humble opinion that basically ANY good quality factory loaded ammunition can be used with confidence in a self-defense situation. If you wanted to get real serious about high performance defensive rounds? Get yourself some 77gr HPBT Sierra Match Kings and use a AR15 with a 1:7" twist and you are Good to Go. (out of a 16" barrel minimum if you believe the scientist types of course.) __________________ Just a big fan of guns.

August 11, 2007, 08:09 AM	#6
Art Eatman Staff Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX, USA Posts: 16,803	Unless your house is a helluva lot bigger than my house, I don't see where it would make one iota of difference between a 40-grain bullet and a 70-grain bullet. I suggest that at ten yards or so, the recipient of the unexpected present won't know the difference, nor care. Art __________________ "You're from BATFE? Hey, great! I use all your fine products!"

August 11, 2007, 09:46 AM	#7
c4igrant Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2002 Location: OH Posts: 187	For defense, you really need to look at the Hornady TAP line. The BH's 77gr MK's are also an excellent choice. C4 __________________ G&R Tactical, LLC www.GRTactical.com 1-888-9GR-GUNS

August 11, 2007, 08:19 PM	#10
RockyMtnTactical Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2006 Location: Rocky Mountains Posts: 1,552	There are plenty of good self defense offerings. I am partial to 68gr OTM for a variety of reasons... but I prefer 55gr XM193 when I can get it as my all-purpose ammo and that is mostly what I have stocked away... __________________ http://www.rockymountaintactical.net/ - http://minutemanreview.com/ - http://ar15pro.net/

August 11, 2007, 03:04 AM	#2
Rpn1984 Member Join Date: December 2, 2004 Posts: 72	anyone have any ideas?

August 11, 2007, 03:09 AM	#3
.45&TKD Member Join Date: September 10, 2002 Posts: 59	55 grain is better for home defense. Higher velocity means more yaw/tumbling and less over pentration.

August 11, 2007, 07:05 AM	#5
joshua Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2004 Location: norCal Posts: 2,162	I'd rather use 64 gr. Super-X® Power-Point® for the first 4 rounds and if the intruded still won't go down then 62 grain mil ball should be used aimed at the intruder's head. If you meant an intuder in your house, most of the rounds from a 223 even ball ammo should break up according to what I have read. josh

August 11, 2007, 12:41 PM	#8
Zombie Steve Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2007 Location: Old Colorado City Posts: 517	Ammo Oracle is a wealth of knowlege on the subject. +1 I like the TAP ammo too, but they are pretty pricey. I found the 50gr American Eagle hollow points are a great value, and produce some real nasty wounds on varmints (4 legged I'm sure about... haven't tried them on the 2-legged kind, but I have a good idea of what to expect). http://www.ammoman.com/images/223-hollow-pt.jpg

August 11, 2007, 08:57 PM	#12
ursavus.elemensis Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2007 Location: southcentral/southeastern PA Posts: 274	Unless the bad guy breaks in while I am literally standing at the gun safe, with the door open, then he is not getting to see my AR. I've got neighbors with kids on all sides of my house. Plus, what if I miss because he ducks or I am nervous, or something like that? Then he gets to grab the AR. No, I'm not playing around if someone breaks in. They're getting a shotgun blast. End of story.

August 12, 2007, 01:50 AM	#15
GATMOG Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2007 Location: OREGON Posts: 220	Yay Fragment!!! __________________ *BEWARE OF ATTACK REPUBLICAN*

August 12, 2007, 09:12 AM	#16
Art Eatman Staff Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX, USA Posts: 16,803	Well, Bennn, it seems to me that folks apparently want to shoot one time and then look to see what happened. That's what comes across in the writing, anyway. Sorta like the guy who rarely if ever fights and then throws one punch and stops to see what was the effect. If a reasonable and prudent person believes there is justification to use deadly force inside the home, at inside-the-home distances, my advice is to use whatever weapon with which the defender is skilled. The ammunition, generally, is irrelevant. The idea is to change a vertical target to a horizontal object. "Stopped" is the operative word. Inside the house, #9 Skeet from a 20-gauge is just as useful as 00 Buck from a 12-gauge. Any centerfire rifle above such as the .22 Hornet should suffice. I'd suggest 9mm Para or better, generally, for handguns. Now, if "over-penetration" is an issue, that's a whole different thread. There is no "One size fits all." For instance, for me from inside my, I doubt if I could hit a neighbor with a .50BMG. Solid rock around most of my yard; distance, for those very few rooftops in view. But if your walls between you and your neighbor's apartment are all that thin, forget the gun. Get several hatchets and learn how to throw them. I fail to see why the cost of any ammo is at issue. How often in the past has it been needed? How often in the future is it likely to be needed? And, what's twenty bucks worth of ammo, compared to your annual life insurance premium? Inside the house, MOA is not relevant, so testing for group size ain't gonna be needed. I dunno. A lot of this seems to me to be picking fly-poop out of pepper, which ain't much of a career. Art __________________ "You're from BATFE? Hey, great! I use all your fine products!"

August 12, 2007, 03:22 PM	#17
RockyMtnTactical Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2006 Location: Rocky Mountains Posts: 1,552	Art makes a good point... and that is, choice of ammo is a trivial choice in many cases. What matters much more is the level of training and skill of the person defending his life. __________________ http://www.rockymountaintactical.net/ - http://minutemanreview.com/ - http://ar15pro.net/

August 12, 2007, 05:44 PM	#18
gyp_c2 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2000 Location: Colorado...Louisiana Posts: 388	ha... ...Now Art...ya' know #8 is better from here-to-the-TV... LOL...that #9 is better for the rapidly approachin' evil dove season... __________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>g2<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< AVERT

August 12, 2007, 07:24 PM	#19
azjohn Member Join Date: April 25, 2007 Location: Amado, Arizona Posts: 38	Here is a site that has what you could use. extremeshockusa.com Their ammo or you can just buy the bullets. I know some say you should not roll your own for home defense. You can have a misfire with either. Like Art said whatever works.Mine is 158 grain jhp in 357 mag; reloads. I trust them and have practiced with them.Next would be my shotgun loaded with whatever is the ithin reach; probably #8. I live in a bad area 30 miles from the Mexico border;drugs and illegals all around. John __________________ Not cool sunglasses for the AZ sun.

August 12, 2007, 10:19 PM	#20
Shawn Dodson Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 1998 Location: Titusville, FL, USA Posts: 1,007	I use 55gr FMJBT with cannelure. I don't bother with anything else. __________________ /s/ Shawn Dodson FirearmsTactical.com "It never troubles the wolf how many the sheep may be." - Virgil

August 13, 2007, 09:40 PM	#22
Art Eatman Staff Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX, USA Posts: 16,803	Well, a buddy of mine learned the hard way about 20-gauge and #9 Skeet. Fortunately he was out at some 25 yards and trying to widen the gap when his wife pulled trigger. "They picked shot out of me for a week!" Well, actually, some sixty pellets and then a week in the hospital. They quit drinking. One of those, "Oh, Bill! What have I done?" "Ya shot me, ya dumb (bleep)!" Had it been five yards, however... Art __________________ "You're from BATFE? Hey, great! I use all your fine products!"