Need citation for Original draft of 2nd amend.

[Gorthaur]

DC has posted this a couple of times, but I don't recall a source being cited. I want to write a letter to Tom Campbell (Dianne Feinstein's opponent), pointing out that his interpretation of the 2nd amendment is wrong. I need for everything I put in it to be airtight.

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Protect your Right to Keep and Bear Arms!

[dZ]

try hunting here: http://www.constitution.org/cs_found.htm

[dZ]

here: http://www.law.ucla.edu/faculty/volo...ch/sources.htm

[Gorthaur]

Thanks!

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Protect your Right to Keep and Bear Arms!

[USP45]

read through this for some ideas...
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-284es.html

~USP

[BTR]

Get "That Every Man Be Armed" by, I think, Halbrook. Also, go to:
www.guncite.com

They have enourmous amounts of material, including a wonderful quote from Justice Cooley's "Principles of Constiutional Law" (one of the early primers on the constution). Cooley states specifically that the right is NOT limited to militia members, and includes self-defense. I've got the quote here:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/8411/second.html

[This message has been edited by BTR (edited April 13, 2000).]

[TheBluesMan]

All of the above sites have three commas in the second amendment. I seem to remember seeing a debate on whether there are really three commas or only one in the original. For some reason I think that the Libertarian party had only one comma in their version, but I can't find it anywhere on their site. www.lp.org . I may have just seen it on a flyer I picked up at a gun show.

Anyone have any answers?

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RKBA!
"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4 Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website

[DC]

dZ gave the site..
this is the exact page: http://www.constitution.org/bor/amd_jmad.htm

This was how the 2nd was orginally penned by Madison in 1789:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well
regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of
bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person.[/quote]
In Madison's original version, a well-ordered militia was merely one of the good things that come from universal gun ownership, not suggesting a precondition on universal gun ownership.

It was sent to the Select Committee, who changed it to the following (July 28, 1789) http://www.constitution.org/bor/amd_scom.htm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, being the best security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, but no person
religiously scrupulous shall be compelled to bear arms."[/quote]
Though this version was more confusing, it was plain that the militia was synonomous with the people at large.

Then, the Senate further edited it to the version we have now. Though now more compact, it is also less clear to us now. However, it must be remembered that even though it may be less clear to us in modern times the Framers didn't need to be explicit about the composition of the militia as it was so well understood at that time that it wasn't necessary to define. It is most important to note, however, that the phrase the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed remained intact and unchanged throughout the drafting/editing process


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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!

[Don Randall]

Stephen P. Halbrook has a web page, I don't
have the web address handy. You can enter
his name into a search engine, and it should
pull it up for you. He also has filed an
amicus brief, in support of the decision
in the District Court, in Texas.

Very interesting stuff!

His book, That Every Man Be Armed, is very
well researched - much information, from
the early Greeks and Romans, their history
and thoughts of their philosophers.
He also covers the English prior to and
during the colonial time.

This is a MUST read, for anyone interested
in this topic.

-Don-

[David Roberson]

Another point worth mentioning here is that what we now know as the Second Amendment was originally drafted as the Fourth Amendment.

[dZ]

M.O.M. claims the comma was added: http://www.nidlink.com/~bobhard/mom.html

[dZ]

here is a .jpg of the March 4 1789 document where the Article the Forth reads:
A well regulated Militia being necessary to the Security of a free State, the Right of the People to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed. http://www.nidlink.com/~bobhard/billofrt.jpg
that one was press printed

this one from the same date is hand written: http://www.constitution.org/cons/bill.jpg

[This message has been edited by dZ (edited April 14, 2000).]

[bookkie]

Gorthaur:

I had a nice debate with Mr. Cambell on this issue last year. All of the posts should be found on his web site under town hall meetings, constitutional law. What it boils down to is that he believes that the term "well regulated" means that the government should regulate by law all guns. His mind is set on this and there is nothing we can say that will change it.

He wants to ban all assault weapons, sat night specials etc. Although he does say that he believes that it would be unconstitutional to ban all guns. He accepts the individual model of the 2nd.

I also sent him copy's of the following books: Halbrook's "That Every Man be Armed", Lott's "More Guns, Less Crime" and bestdefense357's "Best Defense".... Never received a reply back from him on this. Doubt if he read them.

Other than that, I wish you luck in changing his mind. I'm still trying to work on our local congresscritter Doug Ose. He is a middle of the roader on the issue. At least we finally got rid of that no good sob rabid anti-gunner (shish I can't even remember his name now) that we had before.



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Richard

The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!

[RickD]

We should define our terms. What were the meanings of the words "militia," "well-regulated," "keep," "bear," and "arms"?

The Founders would say that the militia is composed of the whole people. Well-regulated refers to being skilled, while other shadings include having similar weaponry from man to man. Keep means to own and to have. Bear means to carry. There are those who say that "bear" means only to carry during war. The problem with that is that Jefferson drafted a Virginia law concerning the bearing of arms for hunting.

And lastly, "arms." Some say today that the right to bear arms is not absolute because that would mean that they could bear nuclear arms. Sorry. No. SALT II treaties aside, the term arms refers to the common weapons of the soldier and the citizen. Bombs are not arms, they are ordinance (or ordnance of the period) and the Founder knew the difference.

Rick

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"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American." Tench Coxe 2/20/1788