"The CCW Rules"

[gvf]

Thought this stated it well and concretely.

(The site that houses the information below has
interesting graphic by the way, on ccw permit growth in the US.
That site is: http://www.kc3.com/CCW_progress.htm)

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http://www.firearmstactical.com/index.htm

Five Rules for CONCEALED Carry

1. Your concealed handgun is for protection of life only.

Draw it solely in preparation to protect yourself or an innocent third party from the wrongful and life-threatening criminal actions of another.

2. Know exactly when you can use your gun.

A criminal adversary must have, or reasonably appear to have:

1.

the ability to inflict serious bodily injury (he is armed or reasonably appears to be armed with a deadly weapon),
2.

the opportunity to inflict serious bodily harm (he is physically positioned to harm you with his weapon), and
3.

his intent (hostile actions or words) indicates that he means to place you in jeopardy -- to do you serious or fatal physical harm.

When all three of these "attack potential" elements are in place simultaneously, then you are facing a reasonably perceived deadly threat that can justify an emergency deadly force response.

3. If you can run away -- RUN!

Just because you’re armed doesn’t necessarily mean you must confront a bad guy at gunpoint. Develop your "situation awareness" skills so you can be alert to detect and avoid trouble altogether. Keep in mind that if you successfully evade a potential confrontation, the single negative consequence involved might be your bruised ego, which should heal with mature rationalization. But if you force a confrontation you risk the possibility of you or a family member being killed or suffering lifelong crippling/disfiguring physical injury, criminal liability and/or financial ruin from civil lawsuit. Flee if you can, fight only as a last resort.

4. Display your gun, go to jail.

You should expect to be arrested by police at gunpoint, and be charged with a crime anytime your concealed handgun is seen by another citizen in public, regardless of how unintentional or innocent or justified the situation might seem. Choose a method of carry that keeps your gun reliably hidden from public view at all times.

You have no control over how a stranger will react to seeing (or learning about) your concealed handgun. He or she might become alarmed and report you to police as a "man or woman with a gun." Depending on his or her feelings about firearms, this person might be willing to maliciously embellish his or her story in attempt to have your gun seized by police or to get you arrested. An alarmed citizen who reports a "man with a gun" is going to be more credible to police than you when you're stopped because you match the suspect's description, and you're found to have a concealed handgun in your possession.

Before you deliberately expose your gun in public, ask yourself: "Is this worth going to jail for?" The only time this question should warrant a "yes" response is when an adversary has at least, both ability and intent, and is actively seeking the opportunity to do you great harm.

5. Don't let your emotions get the best of you.

If, despite your best efforts to the contrary, you do get into some kind of heated dispute with another person while you’re armed, never mention, imply or exhibit your gun for the purpose of intimidation or one-upmanship. You’ll simply make a bad situation worse -- for yourself (see rule #4).

[wdelack]

All good advice for sure.

Depending on his or her feelings about firearms, this person might be willing to maliciously embellish his or her story in attempt to have your gun seized by police or to get you arrested.

:barf:

In some states, this might be considered to be filing a false police report, and can carry misdemeanor or felony charges.

[nemesis]

1. Your concealed handgun is for protection of life only.

An interesting and idealistic point but it has a limited scope.

Does this suggest that you would not consider using a firearm to prevent a kidnapping or to stop a rape? How about preventing arson? You can run away from all of these.

Those and more are legitimate reasons to use deadly force in Texas. Limiting yourself to defending yourself only from violence is legal but puts the lives of others at great risk.

Let me put it this way. If I see your daughter being kidnapped; do you want me to write down the license number and report it to the police or stop it right there?

[Double Naught Spy]

nemesis, very good. There is indeed a conflict in the "rules."

I noticed...

1. Your concealed handgun is for protection of life only.

Rule #1 is subject to state and local laws, plus personal ethics and morals.

2. Know exactly when you can use your gun.

This is the whole ability, opportunity, and intent regime, which is a good regime, but the rules seem to indicate that these must be actual. In reality, it can be that they are perceived. A demand has been made for your wallet. You may perceive the object in the suspect's hand is a gun (ability). He is only a few feet away right now (opportunity). He is pointing it at you and you think he will shoot you (intent).

3. If you can run away -- RUN!

As noted, this seems to be in conflict with protecting 3rd parties of #1. Unless you are otherwise trapped, chances are you can run away form a situation where somebody else is being threatened or harmed.

4. Display your gun, go to jail.

You should expect to be arrested by police at gunpoint, and be charged with a crime anytime your concealed handgun is seen by another citizen in public, regardless of how unintentional or innocent or justified the situation might seem.

Sort of. Don't expect to go to jail, but don't be surprised if it happens, but in many cases, it doesn't happen. It is far from absolute. However, if you do end up going to jail, don't whine about being treated like a criminal. It is part of the process and part of due process. Yes, you have to wear the cuffs. Yes, you have to ride in the back of the police car. Yes, you may be in a jail cell with real criminals.

5. Don't let your emotions get the best of you.

Well, this probably should pertain to most pursuits in life, especially conflicts, not just concealed carry.

[chris in va]

Wow, those 'rules' are way off.

[gvf]

No, they aren't way off, though a few states may have some variations. Kidnapping and rape go into the Defense category, there is no conflict. The law allows either to include very real possibility of homicide - hence fall into legal Self Defense actions.

Yet your attitudes may be off: at least if you believe the CCW gives you additional rights, responsibilities, legal defense capabilities as would be the case not having one. Its' exactly the same, for it falls under Self-Defense Law, which does not specify technique/means. Nor whether the means/tools themselves violate or not other law.

CCW also does not refer in any way, for anything other than exemption from the usual prohibitions against carrying a concealed weapon. That's it. It's subject does not go beyond that. Specifically, it does not mention shooting anybody.

So, relative to taking SD action, there is no difference between you and everyone else, including any who carry without a permit - (if one is required in your area). They also can use the gun for SD and not be guilty of homicide-law should the laws of SD be adhered to. (Though under Gun Law they would be guilty of concealed weapon violation).

CCW is what it is. No more. And SD laws are by and large what is posted.

[blume357]

the threat of death or great bodily harm to yourself... they usually take the extra step that you can use the same force to stop the threat to another person. If you can with good judgement put your self in the position of the person threatened and they meet the same requirements for the use of deadly force then you can use the same to protect them. In other words even if you could reasonably escape from the situation if someone else can't then you can use deadly force to protect them... this was all before any stand your ground laws were passed.

[The Immortal]

More important as to whether the actual post is technically right, I think it behooves all those with CCW permits to review and reflect on his words and give consideration to the spirit it was meant.
It is mental training. Before you do anything, consider the consequences.

[Double Naught Spy]

CCW is what it is. No more.

Yeah, it is what it is and it isn't actually rules but opinions on CCW. SD laws are not all that is cover by CCW.

And SD laws are by and large what is posted.

Really? Let's do the math...

Rule #1 isn't a universal SD law
Rule #2 probably is a universal SD law (the components of 2, but not the station that you have to know when it is legal, which you don't)
Rule #3 isn't a SD law
Rule #4 isn't a SD law
Rule #5 isn't a SD law

Out of the 5 rules, 60% aren't SD laws, 20% aren't universal, and 20% probably are. So by the "rules" posted, they are, by and large, NOT SD laws.

[YounGun24]

I agree with those "rules". I don't see why people are getting upset about them.

[chris in va]

Oh jeez. Maybe I should explain myself further. It depends on the state you live in. Some states have OC allowances. Others allow deadly force to prevent valuable property loss.

The 'rules' aren't universal, and look like they were put together by a LEO frankly.

[gvf]

I don't know what the problem is either.
1. "Your concealed handgun is for protection of life only."
Of course that's SD law. It's S D, Defense, when yours or someone's life is at stake.
2 IS, read the law, the man already posted that defense of another's life fell under the Law,
3. "If you can run away -- RUN!"
All but two states require killing someone be THE last resort - no options left but one.
5 . "Don't let your emotions get the best of you.
If, despite your best efforts to the contrary, you do get into some kind of heated dispute with another person while you’re armed, never mention, imply or exhibit your gun for the purpose of intimidation or one-upmanship. You’ll simply make a bad situation worse -- "

His general point IS SD law. You cannot instigate or elevate an aggressive confrontation and later claim SD, if the escalation later becomes lethal, for you were a participant, and helped create a crisis in which you then claim you had no choice but to kill.You did have an earlier choice: not escalating it
4 isn't - but refers to other gun-Law SD and makes good sense. But the rest correspond to what is usual SD law.( I said "by and large corresponded" an indicator that some were parts of other law)

What your problem is I don't know. You may like to consider yourself a psuedo-cop. You aren't.
SD law is a justification for homicide; historically, legally and ethically, in many cultures and many times past, it has always referred to victims who found themselves in positions of either Defend with commensurate means, or die.

[jabotinsky]

Let me put it this way. If I see your daughter being kidnapped; do you want me to write down the license number and report it to the police or stop it right there?

How good a shot are ya'?

[nemesis]

Let me put it this way. If I see your daughter being kidnapped; do you want me to write down the license number and report it to the police or stop it right there?

How good a shot are ya'?

You responded to a question with a question. Do you want me to intervene to prevent your daughter being kidnapped? Yes or no? No debates, no interviews; you must make a decision. Decision making is critical when life is at stake.

Just so you know. I typically practice with Redfield rifle sighting targets between measured distances of 12 to 15 yards at an indoor range and fire a total of 50 rounds fast fire before changing targets. Normally, most rounds will be in the 4" diamond with 4 to 6 just outside. Not good enough to set the world on fire but not all of us are exceptional.

[Jmaxx]

Hypotetical here:

Say I have a CCW, got a buddy in the car, carjacker approaches, I freeze or something happens, say I hyperventilate, he grabs my gun out of glove compartment, shoots would be carjacker, is he going to jail???

[jabotinsky]

Do you want me to intervene to prevent your daughter being kidnapped? ...I typically practice with Redfield rifle sighting targets between measured distances of 12 to 15 yards at an indoor range and fire a total of 50 rounds fast fire before changing targets. Normally, most rounds will be in the 4" diamond with 4 to 6 just outside. Not good enough to set the world on fire but not all of us are exceptional.

Dude, I think you need more range time before engaging in a hostage shootout.

[Perldog007]

In some states, this might be considered to be filing a false police report, and can carry misdemeanor or felony charges.

Based on direct experience, don't hold your breath for the prosecutor to file those charges on the complaining witness after you prove the witness to be lying under oath as well as in the complaint.

If the prosecutor's office has an anti-gun agenda the witness will most likely be given a pass. Going after them would discourage others from amping up complaints against law abiding gun owners. Not what anti-gun prosecutors want.

[jfrey123]

The first rule of CCW is - you do not talk about CCW. The second rule of CCW is - you DO NOT talk about CCW

[gvf]

he grabs my gun out of glove compartment, shoots would be carjacker, is he going to jail???

And he doesn't have a permit? Well, best ask a lawyer skilled in SD Law. But as long as the situation met the test of "ability to kill, seriously injure - or a Reasonable Person would believe that", the "opportunity" and the "intent" to do so, your friend's act would be justifiable homicide. BUT, he could, under a different set of laws, be charged with violation of Gun Law. Theoretically. As to whether he would, would be up to the prosecutor, the same one who did not charge him with murder or manslaughter. Given that, it would be weird if he didn't also drop the gun charge, as it was "the only means" of SD available. Since you asked laymen, that's my layman's answer based on logic.

The question on kidnapping was addressed earlier.

But look, the intent of the guidelines posted, or any such similar guides, is to aid people in the usual type of violent attack situations one encounters. Yes, you can use it to bring up highly unlikely dramatic events and evaluate them, (or try to punch holes in Defense being the end-purpose of SD Law if you see yourself as a civilian-cop - which is likely what some are doing here), but the purpose of the posting was to clarify the usual. If it's helpful use it, if not use something else that's better for you. If you want to use this as a political-vetch opportunity or an exercise in screen writing, why not start another thread?

[Tbag]

First off, I am glad I live in one of the two states that I can protect myself at all costs. Stand your ground in the sunshine state.

Second, please shoot the bastard who is trying to kidnap my daughter, you will quickly find out that you have a friend for life!

[JED1177]

part of CCW..........................your 1 Million Dollar insurance coverage!

[gvf]

your 1 Million Dollar insurance coverage!

Not to hijack my own thread: but regarding the above, is there any insurance which would cover use of handgun in SD circumstances, liability-wise? Personal, or - if like me you have a "Business Carry" permit, a business insurance policy of any type?

[JED1177]

Yes, contact your insurance carrier and describe the situation you might be in someday with CCW.

Many retired Law Enforcement officers that can now carry across the 50 states jurisdictions (President Bush supported and signed into law) now have recognized the need for enhanced coverage since they no longer fall under their former departments unbrella.

Those that I have spoken to advise the coverage runs about $700 annually.

[ghalleen]

These rules might be decent best practices, but by no means the law. Each state has its own laws, and what is important is you learn the specific laws in your state or area.

[SamHouston]

gvf

I carry a 1 million $ "Personal Umbrella" policy which only runs about $200 a year. I would hope this would cover me in a SD situation. It's a great policy when your kids start to drive & you've accumulated a few assets.

Any insurance pros educate us on this ??