Yet Another Problem Surfaces With The FNP9/40 Pistol Series: Slide Gouging - Page 2

Heraclid · May 15, 2008, 10:18 PM

I don't see how this can be a parts issue (?) What would they do, send you an un-scratchable slide?

Are you referring to the trigger group problem instead? I know people got new components from them for that.

Sorry, I don't follow ya on this...

LanceOregon · May 16, 2008, 02:13 AM

Quote:

I own the Browning Pro-9, which is the same gun. The manual clearly outlines the steps for removing the slide. This may not be verbatim, but this is the process:

1. Lock back the slide.
2. Rotate the take-down lever to the down position.
3. Pull back slightly on the slide, disengaging the slide lock lever, and ease the slide forward off the gun.

However, you can skip some steps and simply flip the take-down lever down and the slide comes off. And guess what happens when you do that?

These are the identical steps for disassembly that SIG has had in their pistol manuals for a great many years now. This procedure is thus hardly anything new or different.

.

ShipWreck · May 17, 2008, 04:34 PM

Quote:

I don't see how this can be a parts issue (?) What would they do, send you an un-scratchable slide?

Are you referring to the trigger group problem instead? I know people got new components from them for that.

Sorry, I don't follow ya on this...

Yes, sorry - I thought this was the "other" FNP thread - about the trigger group issue... Sorry...

ImDisaster · May 18, 2008, 03:04 AM

"I own the Browning Pro-9, which is the same gun. The manual clearly outlines the steps for removing the slide. This may not be verbatim, but this is the process:

1. Lock back the slide.
2. Rotate the take-down lever to the down position.
3. Pull back slightly on the slide, disengaging the slide lock lever, and ease the slide forward off the gun.

However, you can skip some steps and simply flip the take-down lever down and the slide comes off. And guess what happens when you do that?"

I don't see how this could hit the slide during an alternate field strip procedure. Could you explain? Also, I've only read about it in the harder recoiling .40...not the 9mm. Coincidence?

ikiddp5 · May 18, 2008, 09:46 AM

"This does not happen through slide contact with the take-down lever during firing. This happens because you are not properly disassembling your guns for cleaning. Heraclid"

+1!

I have shoot more than 3,000 rounds with my FNP9 with not a single failure yet, nor any wear.

omnibus1967 · May 19, 2008, 03:13 AM

OP stated there are 300 or more reports of broken trigger groups???? please back that up. The moderators are fed up w/him over at FN net.

i've heard about a few slide gouges in 40 caliber. but not a single one in 9mm. my FNP-9 is 2.5 years old and no gouging or trigger housing problems.

i only know of 5 documented cases of the trigger group problem...and all were with pistols made in 2007. 5 problems would be maybe 1/100 of 1% of sales as a guess.

i would recommend this pistol (in 9mm) to anyone looking for a HD or CCW pistol.

Logs · May 19, 2008, 08:24 AM

I held some of the FN guns at the NRA show, the 9mm and 40 feel pretty good, but the .45 is a big block. I don't plan on getting one anytime soon.

Heraclid · May 19, 2008, 11:57 PM

During a proper take-down, the take-down lever will not gouge the slide because with the slide locked back first, the take-down lever swings up under that recessed semicircular area on the slide (so it is made not to contact the slide this way). But if you do not lock the slide back first as per the manual, then the lever gouges the slide as you rotate it down, producing marks identical to some of those I've seen posted re: this problem. This should be immediately obvious to the operator, though, and anyone with that sort of damage should not be complaining about the gun being faulty.

However, some of the slide gouging has been slightly further forward on the slide, under the "P" in FNP. I don't see how this would happen with proper operation of the gun, but I do not own and have not fired a Pro-40 or FNP-40, either. I read one report where somebody said you could manually push the slide down enough to contact the take-down lever because the tolerances were too loose. Well, I've tried, and at least with my gun there certainly isn't any way you could get it to do that. But I own a Browning Pro-9, a 9mm version of the FNP-9. It has never had a FTF or FTE and so far has not had the slide get gouged or the trigger housing crack (and even though I have mostly used snap caps, I have also dry-fired the gun).

This may sound crazy, but there are people who do it - maybe some are resting the normal trigger finger on the take-down lever and pulling the trigger with their second finger? Perhaps during recoil they could inadvertently cause the lever to move enough to accomplish this sort of damage, and they may not necessarily be aware of it right away. I can't imagine anyone would actually do this, and if so, apparently no one has yet managed to get their slide to fly off or gotten "bitten" by the slide. This would be a very low frequency sort of event, because it would be limited to only left-handed shooters who shoot with the wrong finger. This could be done to any of these guns, but more robust recoil could make it more likely to occur. Although the flip of a 9mm would seem more likely to induce it than the push of a .40, but the 9mm's aren't doing it.

Some of the pics of damaged slides show identical marks to what you'd get from improper disassembly, but further forward. The take-down lever would have to rotate some during slide cycling for this to happen. Even if you could in fact push the slide down and make it touch the lever with your gun, the point of the lever would still be flush with the top of the polymer and should not be in a position to cause the types of markings that some have posted on this or other forums. I just fail to see how this damage can happen from normal operation.

I have not heard of either the slide or trigger group problems happening with the older Browning variants of this gun (either caliber), although the trigger group issue certainly seems like it could. There are far less of them than the FN-marked guns, so we may just not have heard about it. As has been said before, slide gouging appears to be only occurring with .40's. The trigger housing cracks have happened with both 9mm's and .40's. The cracking doesn't stop the gun from firing and apparently only happens during DA pulls, with follow-up SA shots still possible.

ImDisaster · May 20, 2008, 05:30 AM

"I just fail to see how this damage can happen from normal operation."

As I understand it, under the heavier recoil of the .40 the takedown lever rotates and catches the slide. This causes the cosmetic damage. I wonder if this could lead to the FTF's eventually if the slide loses too much momentum...or worse a jam or slide ejection if the scallop becomes big enough to allow more rotation of the takedown lever.

mray4198 · May 29, 2008, 08:19 PM

"I just fail to see how this damage can happen from normal operation."

I have the same problem with a FNP-9M that I just purchased about a month ago. I have fired no more than 100 rounds thru it and already have a gouge in the slide under the NP on the slide.

According to Customer Service at FN this is "normal wear and tear" and is caused by the "takedown lever hitting the slide on downward recoil". I did not know quite what to think about that response........... They also said that it could be caused by someone resting their thumb on the takedown lever and causing it to flip up on recoil. Not me, because I am left handed.

tronson · June 6, 2010, 09:52 PM

there is an illistration above about how to properly takedown the gun make sure you follow the instructions you will here a little click when the slide engages and disengages this is the source of all the problems not following the procedure will alloy the mechanism inside [looks like a half circle] to continue to rotate and allowys the take down lever to move up ans gouge or scratch the slide it is the culprit. make sure you lock the slide in place when putting the gun back together by pulling the slide back slightly and you will here the click doubly when disengaging the slide for takedown pull the slide back when the take down lever is down and you will hear click its now safe to take down

ECSIMMONS66 · November 28, 2010, 09:04 PM

I recently purchased one love the handgun, great 1911 feel, accurate,love the features but i see the mark you are referring to.i have put approximately 500 rounds through and the mark started to be more noticeable, still love the gun but concerned

Lokpyrite · November 28, 2010, 09:20 PM

I've pretty much decided not to purchase any gun design that's out less then 3 year, and preferably 5, I'll be happy to let other folks do the beta testing.

FALshootist · November 28, 2010, 10:26 PM

Is there no wooden stake that can be driven through the heart of these ancient threads to prevent them from coming back from the dead.

ECSIMMONS66 · November 28, 2010, 10:54 PM

Aren't these made by the same company now?

Teirst · November 29, 2010, 10:07 AM

not quite the same gun but my FNX9 is well over 1000 rounds and shows NO wear on the slide. Actually the internals of the gun look just like they did when it was purchased new, and just to mention I always disassemble by; locking the slide back, rotate take down lever 90 degrees, pull back on slide and slowly allow it forward off the frame.

May 15, 2008, 10:18 PM	#26
Heraclid Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 99	I don't see how this can be a parts issue (?) What would they do, send you an un-scratchable slide? Are you referring to the trigger group problem instead? I know people got new components from them for that. Sorry, I don't follow ya on this... __________________ Beretta PX4 Storm subcompact

May 19, 2008, 03:13 AM	#31
omnibus1967 Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2006 Location: Central PA Posts: 160	OP stated there are 300 or more reports of broken trigger groups???? please back that up. The moderators are fed up w/him over at FN net. i've heard about a few slide gouges in 40 caliber. but not a single one in 9mm. my FNP-9 is 2.5 years old and no gouging or trigger housing problems. i only know of 5 documented cases of the trigger group problem...and all were with pistols made in 2007. 5 problems would be maybe 1/100 of 1% of sales as a guess. i would recommend this pistol (in 9mm) to anyone looking for a HD or CCW pistol. Last edited by omnibus1967; May 19, 2008 at 04:35 AM.

May 19, 2008, 11:57 PM	#33
Heraclid Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 99	During a proper take-down, the take-down lever will not gouge the slide because with the slide locked back first, the take-down lever swings up under that recessed semicircular area on the slide (so it is made not to contact the slide this way). But if you do not lock the slide back first as per the manual, then the lever gouges the slide as you rotate it down, producing marks identical to some of those I've seen posted re: this problem. This should be immediately obvious to the operator, though, and anyone with that sort of damage should not be complaining about the gun being faulty. However, some of the slide gouging has been slightly further forward on the slide, under the "P" in FNP. I don't see how this would happen with proper operation of the gun, but I do not own and have not fired a Pro-40 or FNP-40, either. I read one report where somebody said you could manually push the slide down enough to contact the take-down lever because the tolerances were too loose. Well, I've tried, and at least with my gun there certainly isn't any way you could get it to do that. But I own a Browning Pro-9, a 9mm version of the FNP-9. It has never had a FTF or FTE and so far has not had the slide get gouged or the trigger housing crack (and even though I have mostly used snap caps, I have also dry-fired the gun). This may sound crazy, but there are people who do it - maybe some are resting the normal trigger finger on the take-down lever and pulling the trigger with their second finger? Perhaps during recoil they could inadvertently cause the lever to move enough to accomplish this sort of damage, and they may not necessarily be aware of it right away. I can't imagine anyone would actually do this, and if so, apparently no one has yet managed to get their slide to fly off or gotten "bitten" by the slide. This would be a very low frequency sort of event, because it would be limited to only left-handed shooters who shoot with the wrong finger. This could be done to any of these guns, but more robust recoil could make it more likely to occur. Although the flip of a 9mm would seem more likely to induce it than the push of a .40, but the 9mm's aren't doing it. Some of the pics of damaged slides show identical marks to what you'd get from improper disassembly, but further forward. The take-down lever would have to rotate some during slide cycling for this to happen. Even if you could in fact push the slide down and make it touch the lever with your gun, the point of the lever would still be flush with the top of the polymer and should not be in a position to cause the types of markings that some have posted on this or other forums. I just fail to see how this damage can happen from normal operation. I have not heard of either the slide or trigger group problems happening with the older Browning variants of this gun (either caliber), although the trigger group issue certainly seems like it could. There are far less of them than the FN-marked guns, so we may just not have heard about it. As has been said before, slide gouging appears to be only occurring with .40's. The trigger housing cracks have happened with both 9mm's and .40's. The cracking doesn't stop the gun from firing and apparently only happens during DA pulls, with follow-up SA shots still possible. __________________ Beretta PX4 Storm subcompact

June 6, 2010, 09:52 PM	#36
tronson Junior Member Join Date: June 6, 2010 Posts: 3	read the post above there is an illistration above about how to properly takedown the gun make sure you follow the instructions you will here a little click when the slide engages and disengages this is the source of all the problems not following the procedure will alloy the mechanism inside [looks like a half circle] to continue to rotate and allowys the take down lever to move up ans gouge or scratch the slide it is the culprit. make sure you lock the slide in place when putting the gun back together by pulling the slide back slightly and you will here the click doubly when disengaging the slide for takedown pull the slide back when the take down lever is down and you will hear click its now safe to take down

November 28, 2010, 09:04 PM	#37
ECSIMMONS66 Junior Member Join Date: November 28, 2010 Posts: 2	Problems with slide I recently purchased one love the handgun, great 1911 feel, accurate,love the features but i see the mark you are referring to.i have put approximately 500 rounds through and the mark started to be more noticeable, still love the gun but concerned

May 18, 2008, 03:04 AM	#29
ImDisaster Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2008 Posts: 403	"I own the Browning Pro-9, which is the same gun. The manual clearly outlines the steps for removing the slide. This may not be verbatim, but this is the process: 1. Lock back the slide. 2. Rotate the take-down lever to the down position. 3. Pull back slightly on the slide, disengaging the slide lock lever, and ease the slide forward off the gun. However, you can skip some steps and simply flip the take-down lever down and the slide comes off. And guess what happens when you do that?" I don't see how this could hit the slide during an alternate field strip procedure. Could you explain? Also, I've only read about it in the harder recoiling .40...not the 9mm. Coincidence?

May 18, 2008, 09:46 AM	#30
ikiddp5 Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Posts: 156	"This does not happen through slide contact with the take-down lever during firing. This happens because you are not properly disassembling your guns for cleaning. Heraclid" +1! I have shoot more than 3,000 rounds with my FNP9 with not a single failure yet, nor any wear.

May 19, 2008, 08:24 AM	#32
Logs Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 1999 Location: BLUEGRASS STATE KY USA Posts: 1,780	I held some of the FN guns at the NRA show, the 9mm and 40 feel pretty good, but the .45 is a big block. I don't plan on getting one anytime soon.

May 20, 2008, 05:30 AM	#34
ImDisaster Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2008 Posts: 403	"I just fail to see how this damage can happen from normal operation." As I understand it, under the heavier recoil of the .40 the takedown lever rotates and catches the slide. This causes the cosmetic damage. I wonder if this could lead to the FTF's eventually if the slide loses too much momentum...or worse a jam or slide ejection if the scallop becomes big enough to allow more rotation of the takedown lever.

May 29, 2008, 08:19 PM	#35
mray4198 Junior Member Join Date: May 29, 2008 Posts: 1	"I just fail to see how this damage can happen from normal operation." I have the same problem with a FNP-9M that I just purchased about a month ago. I have fired no more than 100 rounds thru it and already have a gouge in the slide under the NP on the slide. According to Customer Service at FN this is "normal wear and tear" and is caused by the "takedown lever hitting the slide on downward recoil". I did not know quite what to think about that response........... They also said that it could be caused by someone resting their thumb on the takedown lever and causing it to flip up on recoil. Not me, because I am left handed.

November 28, 2010, 09:20 PM	#38
Lokpyrite Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2009 Posts: 367	I've pretty much decided not to purchase any gun design that's out less then 3 year, and preferably 5, I'll be happy to let other folks do the beta testing. __________________ The more people I meet the more I'm beginning to root for the zombies.

November 28, 2010, 10:26 PM	#39
FALshootist Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2002 Posts: 589	Is there no wooden stake that can be driven through the heart of these ancient threads to prevent them from coming back from the dead.

November 28, 2010, 10:54 PM	#40
ECSIMMONS66 Junior Member Join Date: November 28, 2010 Posts: 2	Fnp/browning hi power 9mm Aren't these made by the same company now?

November 29, 2010, 10:07 AM	#41
Teirst Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2010 Posts: 267	not quite the same gun but my FNX9 is well over 1000 rounds and shows NO wear on the slide. Actually the internals of the gun look just like they did when it was purchased new, and just to mention I always disassemble by; locking the slide back, rotate take down lever 90 degrees, pull back on slide and slowly allow it forward off the frame.