VA Alert

WAGCEVP · September 19, 2000, 07:47 PM

Today's Richmond Times-Dispatch has an article
on the negative reaction to George Allen's support
for the Clinton gun ban.
http://www.timesdispatch.com/MGI8HPYTADC.html

Note: So far the Allen flip-flop has resulted in only
negative stories. For those who missed our last alert
The Washington Post also gave Allen bad press:
http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/art...2000Sep14.html

The payoff for Allen - an editorial endorsing Robb's positions!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2000Sep16.html

George Allen was quoted as saying of the 1994 Clinton Gun Ban
"I would not repeal the existing ban. . . . I would vote to
continue the existing law."
( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2000Sep12.html )

Gun-owners who donated to the Allen campaign and want their
money back should contact the Allen campaign ASAP!
If George Allen is honorable he will refund all donations that
were received under false pretenses!

Call Allen's Richmond Headquarters at (804) 775-2000

Fax requests for return of donations to: (804) 775-2592

Gunowners should also contact Chuck James (of Sportsmen for Allen ) at the
Allen Campaign and note that Allen's flip-flop is gaining them nothing but
bad press!

Tell him that Allen needs to come to his senses and support the Repeal of
the Clinton Gun Ban!

Chuck James (703) 503-4999
cjames@allen2000.com

ruger45 · September 19, 2000, 08:18 PM

I know where my money didnt go.
LOL LOLAccording to the Center for Responsive Politics, the Allen Senate treasury-through June - has received nearly $11,000 in contributions from donors with ties to the NRA.

The NRA directed about $40,000 to Allen's gubernatorial campaign in 1993.

Gun Owners of America, a Springfield-based organization that claims a Virginia membership of 14,500, criticized Allen during the 1993 gubernatorial campaign for his refusal to undo the handgun-purchase restrictions enacted by his predecessor, Democrat L. Douglas Wilder.>>

A politician never need utter the word repeal
and still have the backing of the largest gun lobby in america.
Nice to know we continue to swing to the
right??
After all to have a safer american such 'GUNLAWS' must be enforced..
right Wayne?
www.ccops.org www.gunowners.org www.citizensofamerica.org

**Mike Irwin** · September 20, 2000, 12:15 PM

Is anyone surprised that the Post would endorse Robb?

Name a politician who you support who follows your beliefs LOCKSTEP 100% of the time on every issue, even the ones that are most important to you.

The BIG question is, who would you rather have sitting in the Senate representing Virginia?

George Allen, or Chuck Robb?

I made that decision weeks ago when I donated $5000 to Allen's campaign.

------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.

madison46 · September 20, 2000, 12:23 PM

Allen screwed up. Unlike the black vote, I don't thing the GOP should take our vote for granted. In CA, Tom Campbell (R) vs. D. Fienstien (D) would seem like a no brainer; however, Tom Campbell got HCI legislator of the year award. I'm going for the Libertarian in that race. Screw him.

For Allen, he's screwing up - big time. I almost hope he looses.

madison

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mike Irwin:
Is anyone surprised that the Post would endorse Robb?

Name a politician who you support who follows your beliefs LOCKSTEP 100% of the time on every issue, even the ones that are most important to you.

The BIG question is, who would you rather have sitting in the Senate representing Virginia?

George Allen, or Chuck Robb?

I made that decision weeks ago when I donated $5000 to Allen's campaign.

[/quote]

Bob Locke · September 20, 2000, 01:27 PM

Mike,

If you support Allen, in light of his non-support of the Constitution, what statement are you making?

Your money, and your vote. Do as you see fit.

But I'm not supporting ANYONE who doesn't support my rights, and if that means that Robb might win again, then so be it. No more votes for people who won't defend my rights, which is the proper role of the government.

Allen_Raiford · September 20, 2000, 01:52 PM

I won't be voting for the 2 faced SOB. Screw him.

**Mike Irwin** · September 20, 2000, 05:02 PM

Whoa! That should be FIFTY dollars, not 5,000! Pesky little . is missing.

No offense, guys, but you're just creating a lose/lose situation for yourselves, in essence, you're screwing yourself from both ends.

Yeah, Allen has flipflopped on the issue. Which means he could be persuaded to flipflop in the issue AGAIN, and could actually be persuaded to vote to rescind.

But ONLY if he's elected. If Robb wins, what Allen does, or doesn't do, doesn't mean squat.

You know EXACTLY where you stand with Chuck Robb. There is now way in hell that he will EVER vote to rescind.

In essence, by refusing to vote, you help Robb, and hurt yourself.

The statement you're making is, in essence, "I'm willing to commit suicide, and take others with me, to prove how right I am."

Thanks, but I really don't prescribe to the Bushido theory of politics...

------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.

RWK · September 20, 2000, 08:51 PM

Mike,

I'm with you. I detest Allen recent "flip flop", but Robb's long-term conduct and positions are much more reprehensible.

It's simply awful that almost all of our electoral choice evolve to the "less bad" of two alternatives.

Regards.

trlmech · September 20, 2000, 09:10 PM

If it was a perfect world Northern Virginia would secede and Allen wouldn't have to worry about the Fairfax Mommie vote. He made a stupid descision but it would make even less sense to stay home and let Robb get re-elected.

johnbt · September 20, 2000, 09:37 PM

Don't like Allen. Really don't like Robb. John

**Mike Irwin** · September 20, 2000, 10:20 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by RWK:
Mike,

I'm with you. I detest Allen recent "flip flop", but Robb's long-term conduct and positions are much more reprehensible.

It's simply awful that almost all of our electoral choice evolve to the "less bad" of two alternatives.

Regards.[/quote]

RWK,

Yep. Politics is not about absolutes. We see that every day. Even our favorite politicians, the ones we hold highest in our esteem, make decisions with which each of us have disagreed.

Would we have voted for Ronald Reagan in 1980 had we known he would eventually throw his support behind the Brady Bill?

Or would we simply have said "screw him," and run the possiblity of another 4 years of Jimmy Carter, the man who gave BATF carte blance to be an extralegal goon squad?

I know what my answer would have been.

Part of politics is knowing when to pick your battles, when to make allies, and when to make the decisions that will hurt you the least in the long run.

We need to remember the biggest thing that George Allen did for Virginia's gunowners, especially those in Northern Virginia -- Concealed Carry.

Yes, I wish Virgil Goode were running for this seat instead of George Allen. He's not.

I also wish that Chuck Robb would be found, and videotaped, making sweet love to a pot-bellied pig, and the tape run on ABC, NBC, CBS, and PBS, but that's not going to happen either.

If some want to attempt to punish George Allen by withholding votes on election day, that's their choice, but it's a bad one. In the end, whom do they punish, especially if the guy with the worst record wins?

Bob Locke -- Regarding the "statement" that I'm making...

I could ask you the same thing.

But I'll tell you what statement I'm making. That I'm willing to fight WITHIN the system in an attempt to hold on to at least some of the gun rights that I still have.

And also that I'm willing to fight WITHIN the system to attempt to get those with the say-so to change their minds on the positions that they've already taken.

I hate to say this, but I think it's evident to everyone here that we're losing ground faster and faster over the last 10 years.

If you don't work to remove those who are actively HOSTILE toward you and your beliefs, and replace them with those who are at least friendly toward your beliefs, what do you really accomplish?

A sense of satisfaction? Even if the those who are actively hostile toward you and your beliefs win?

What have you gained then, except the ability to fondly remember even more rights that have been taken from you?

While I admire your stance, I believe you, and a lot of other people, are confusing morality and politics. They don't have a thing to do with each other, unfortunatly.

------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.

Ironbarr · September 21, 2000, 02:21 PM

Three messages forwarded by Paul Moog (VCDL) with gun-relevant information. I've posted at: http://ironbarr.com/ironbarrtest/vanews.htm

NovaTerp · September 21, 2000, 04:51 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by trlmech:
If it was a perfect world Northern Virginia would secede and Allen wouldn't have to worry about the Fairfax Mommie vote. He made a stupid descision but it would make even less sense to stay home and let Robb get re-elected.[/quote]

Yes it would be perfect if Northern Virginia seceded. Then the rest of Virginia wouldn't be sucking so much money from us to fund the rest of the state. Maybe we'd even be able to alleviate our traffic problems since we'd actually be able to keep our tax money within the new state. Fairfax County had the highest per-capita income in the nation last year, well ahead of the second-place county in New Jersey.

Regarding the second part of your message, I agree wholeheartedly. It's your duty as a citizen to vote. If you don't like Allen, then vote for Robb if you can bring yourself to do it. But not voting at all is like raising a white flag in surrender.

Devin

[This message has been edited by NovaTerp (edited September 21, 2000).]

ruger45 · September 21, 2000, 07:12 PM

My congressmen Ed Bryant (r-TN) has consistently voted for gunlaws anytime the media put any real light on the tradgedies our unloved thugs treat us with, whos been his only opposition a very liberal outspokenly anti-gun democrat.
So how much good am I doing if send Bryant money?
None hell also any chance he gets aid in overwriting the constitution.
So where does my money go to compromise?
Hell no!
It goes to GOA's Political victory fund so they can elect pro-gun congressmen where they are running people like Ron Paul and
REp Helen Chennoeth-Hage who do not beleive in compromise and that freedom is the direction of the wind or whether the NRA will lie throught their teeth and give them an A.
INGRINGEMENTS ARE INFRINGEMENTS!
Maybe you should take notes Mike.
Oh but the AW ban thats ok, not a big deal,
mandatory trigger locks,
hey it could be worse.
Thats always such a great reason for us to gain more restictions.
www.gunowners.org. www.ccops.org www.citizensofamerica.org

------------------
"those who sacrifice
liberty for security deserve neither"

September 20, 2000, 12:23 PM	#4
madison46 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2000 Location: Roseville, CA USA Posts: 568	Allen screwed up. Unlike the black vote, I don't thing the GOP should take our vote for granted. In CA, Tom Campbell (R) vs. D. Fienstien (D) would seem like a no brainer; however, Tom Campbell got HCI legislator of the year award. I'm going for the Libertarian in that race. Screw him. For Allen, he's screwing up - big time. I almost hope he looses. madison <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Irwin: Is anyone surprised that the Post would endorse Robb? Name a politician who you support who follows your beliefs LOCKSTEP 100% of the time on every issue, even the ones that are most important to you. The BIG question is, who would you rather have sitting in the Senate representing Virginia? George Allen, or Chuck Robb? I made that decision weeks ago when I donated $5000 to Allen's campaign. [/quote]

September 20, 2000, 10:20 PM	#11
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 21,782	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RWK: Mike, I'm with you. I detest Allen recent "flip flop", but Robb's long-term conduct and positions are much more reprehensible. It's simply awful that almost all of our electoral choice evolve to the "less bad" of two alternatives. Regards.[/quote] RWK, Yep. Politics is not about absolutes. We see that every day. Even our favorite politicians, the ones we hold highest in our esteem, make decisions with which each of us have disagreed. Would we have voted for Ronald Reagan in 1980 had we known he would eventually throw his support behind the Brady Bill? Or would we simply have said "screw him," and run the possiblity of another 4 years of Jimmy Carter, the man who gave BATF carte blance to be an extralegal goon squad? I know what my answer would have been. Part of politics is knowing when to pick your battles, when to make allies, and when to make the decisions that will hurt you the least in the long run. We need to remember the biggest thing that George Allen did for Virginia's gunowners, especially those in Northern Virginia -- Concealed Carry. Yes, I wish Virgil Goode were running for this seat instead of George Allen. He's not. I also wish that Chuck Robb would be found, and videotaped, making sweet love to a pot-bellied pig, and the tape run on ABC, NBC, CBS, and PBS, but that's not going to happen either. If some want to attempt to punish George Allen by withholding votes on election day, that's their choice, but it's a bad one. In the end, whom do they punish, especially if the guy with the worst record wins? Bob Locke -- Regarding the "statement" that I'm making... I could ask you the same thing. But I'll tell you what statement I'm making. That I'm willing to fight WITHIN the system in an attempt to hold on to at least some of the gun rights that I still have. And also that I'm willing to fight WITHIN the system to attempt to get those with the say-so to change their minds on the positions that they've already taken. I hate to say this, but I think it's evident to everyone here that we're losing ground faster and faster over the last 10 years. If you don't work to remove those who are actively HOSTILE toward you and your beliefs, and replace them with those who are at least friendly toward your beliefs, what do you really accomplish? A sense of satisfaction? Even if the those who are actively hostile toward you and your beliefs win? What have you gained then, except the ability to fondly remember even more rights that have been taken from you? While I admire your stance, I believe you, and a lot of other people, are confusing morality and politics. They don't have a thing to do with each other, unfortunatly. ------------------ Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag. Chances are he knows how to use it.

September 21, 2000, 04:51 PM	#13
NovaTerp Member Join Date: August 27, 2000 Posts: 25	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by trlmech: If it was a perfect world Northern Virginia would secede and Allen wouldn't have to worry about the Fairfax Mommie vote. He made a stupid descision but it would make even less sense to stay home and let Robb get re-elected.[/quote] Yes it would be perfect if Northern Virginia seceded. Then the rest of Virginia wouldn't be sucking so much money from us to fund the rest of the state. Maybe we'd even be able to alleviate our traffic problems since we'd actually be able to keep our tax money within the new state. Fairfax County had the highest per-capita income in the nation last year, well ahead of the second-place county in New Jersey. Regarding the second part of your message, I agree wholeheartedly. It's your duty as a citizen to vote. If you don't like Allen, then vote for Robb if you can bring yourself to do it. But not voting at all is like raising a white flag in surrender. Devin [This message has been edited by NovaTerp (edited September 21, 2000).]

September 19, 2000, 07:47 PM	#1
WAGCEVP Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2000 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,995	Today's Richmond Times-Dispatch has an article on the negative reaction to George Allen's support for the Clinton gun ban. http://www.timesdispatch.com/MGI8HPYTADC.html Note: So far the Allen flip-flop has resulted in only negative stories. For those who missed our last alert The Washington Post also gave Allen bad press: http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/art...2000Sep14.html The payoff for Allen - an editorial endorsing Robb's positions! http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2000Sep16.html George Allen was quoted as saying of the 1994 Clinton Gun Ban "I would not repeal the existing ban. . . . I would vote to continue the existing law." ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2000Sep12.html ) Gun-owners who donated to the Allen campaign and want their money back should contact the Allen campaign ASAP! If George Allen is honorable he will refund all donations that were received under false pretenses! Call Allen's Richmond Headquarters at (804) 775-2000 Fax requests for return of donations to: (804) 775-2592 Gunowners should also contact Chuck James (of Sportsmen for Allen ) at the Allen Campaign and note that Allen's flip-flop is gaining them nothing but bad press! Tell him that Allen needs to come to his senses and support the Repeal of the Clinton Gun Ban! Chuck James (703) 503-4999 cjames@allen2000.com

September 19, 2000, 08:18 PM	#2
ruger45 Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 1999 Posts: 501	I know where my money didnt go. LOL LOLAccording to the Center for Responsive Politics, the Allen Senate treasury-through June - has received nearly $11,000 in contributions from donors with ties to the NRA. The NRA directed about $40,000 to Allen's gubernatorial campaign in 1993. Gun Owners of America, a Springfield-based organization that claims a Virginia membership of 14,500, criticized Allen during the 1993 gubernatorial campaign for his refusal to undo the handgun-purchase restrictions enacted by his predecessor, Democrat L. Douglas Wilder.>> A politician never need utter the word repeal and still have the backing of the largest gun lobby in america. Nice to know we continue to swing to the right?? After all to have a safer american such 'GUNLAWS' must be enforced.. right Wayne? www.ccops.org www.gunowners.org www.citizensofamerica.org

September 20, 2000, 12:15 PM	#3
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 21,782	Is anyone surprised that the Post would endorse Robb? Name a politician who you support who follows your beliefs LOCKSTEP 100% of the time on every issue, even the ones that are most important to you. The BIG question is, who would you rather have sitting in the Senate representing Virginia? George Allen, or Chuck Robb? I made that decision weeks ago when I donated $5000 to Allen's campaign. ------------------ Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag. Chances are he knows how to use it.

September 20, 2000, 01:27 PM	#5
Bob Locke Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 1999 Location: Greeley, CO Posts: 2,525	Mike, If you support Allen, in light of his non-support of the Constitution, what statement are you making? Your money, and your vote. Do as you see fit. But I'm not supporting ANYONE who doesn't support my rights, and if that means that Robb might win again, then so be it. No more votes for people who won't defend my rights, which is the proper role of the government.

September 20, 2000, 01:52 PM	#6
Allen_Raiford Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2000 Posts: 305	I won't be voting for the 2 faced SOB. Screw him.

September 20, 2000, 05:02 PM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 21,782	Whoa! That should be FIFTY dollars, not 5,000! Pesky little . is missing. No offense, guys, but you're just creating a lose/lose situation for yourselves, in essence, you're screwing yourself from both ends. Yeah, Allen has flipflopped on the issue. Which means he could be persuaded to flipflop in the issue AGAIN, and could actually be persuaded to vote to rescind. But ONLY if he's elected. If Robb wins, what Allen does, or doesn't do, doesn't mean squat. You know EXACTLY where you stand with Chuck Robb. There is now way in hell that he will EVER vote to rescind. In essence, by refusing to vote, you help Robb, and hurt yourself. The statement you're making is, in essence, "I'm willing to commit suicide, and take others with me, to prove how right I am." Thanks, but I really don't prescribe to the Bushido theory of politics... ------------------ Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag. Chances are he knows how to use it.

September 20, 2000, 08:51 PM	#8
RWK Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 1999 Location: Occupied Virginia Posts: 2,677	Mike, I'm with you. I detest Allen recent "flip flop", but Robb's long-term conduct and positions are much more reprehensible. It's simply awful that almost all of our electoral choice evolve to the "less bad" of two alternatives. Regards.

September 20, 2000, 09:10 PM	#9
trlmech Member Join Date: June 3, 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 85	If it was a perfect world Northern Virginia would secede and Allen wouldn't have to worry about the Fairfax Mommie vote. He made a stupid descision but it would make even less sense to stay home and let Robb get re-elected.

September 20, 2000, 09:37 PM	#10
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 4,205	Don't like Allen. Really don't like Robb. John

September 21, 2000, 02:21 PM	#12
Ironbarr Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2000 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,188	Three messages forwarded by Paul Moog (VCDL) with gun-relevant information. I've posted at: http://ironbarr.com/ironbarrtest/vanews.htm

September 21, 2000, 07:12 PM	#14
ruger45 Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 1999 Posts: 501	My congressmen Ed Bryant (r-TN) has consistently voted for gunlaws anytime the media put any real light on the tradgedies our unloved thugs treat us with, whos been his only opposition a very liberal outspokenly anti-gun democrat. So how much good am I doing if send Bryant money? None hell also any chance he gets aid in overwriting the constitution. So where does my money go to compromise? Hell no! It goes to GOA's Political victory fund so they can elect pro-gun congressmen where they are running people like Ron Paul and REp Helen Chennoeth-Hage who do not beleive in compromise and that freedom is the direction of the wind or whether the NRA will lie throught their teeth and give them an A. INGRINGEMENTS ARE INFRINGEMENTS! Maybe you should take notes Mike. Oh but the AW ban thats ok, not a big deal, mandatory trigger locks, hey it could be worse. Thats always such a great reason for us to gain more restictions. www.gunowners.org. www.ccops.org www.citizensofamerica.org ------------------ "those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither"