Cheap JHP vs Premium JHP

[HogManMagnum]

i keep seeing in other posts and other forums myriad discussions about whats the better JHP. from DPX to XTP, Gold Dot to Ranger Talon the argument is endless. yes, i understand expansion, core seperation and weight retention. but how do these terminal ballistics and supposed one-shot-stop ratings really translate on the street? what i wonder is how the cheap JHPs, such as WWB JHP, compare in SD situations compared to the premium stuff...

a FMJ will zip right thru while a JHP will expand and dump its energy on the target but beyond that what advantage will a premium JHP give u over a cheap JHP in a street scenario?

is the DXP, SXT or Gold Dot that much more effective in stopping a BG compared to the cheaper no-name JHP ?

considering the price difference i think its a valid question...

what yall think?

[nate45]

Here is Winchester White Box 230 gr. Personal Protection compared with Remington Golden Sabers in wet pack testing about 2/3 the penetration you would see if the test media were ballistic gelatin.



The WWB did well and looks like it would work on 'the street'

On the other hand if your life may depend on it what is a few extra dollars for premium ammo.

[Ichiro]

90% ~ Avoid trouble to begin with, but have a gun on you and be willing and ready to use it
5% ~ shot placement and number of shots available
4% ~ respectable caliber
1% ~ respectable caliber with kick-ass cartridge and bullet design

The 1% might be the difference between life and death if you are faced with a very bad situation involving a lot of shooting, but daily concerns like living within ones means and having some financial peace precludes many of us from sending $1 cartridges downrange at a fast rate every week. Yes, my life is priceless, but I don't have a billion-dollar life insurance policy, and I don't consume "Super Foods" from Peru seven times a day to keep myself extra healthy. I can't afford it, and so I make choices. Focusing on the 90% and the 5% seems rational and sustainable. I can afford to be prepared, but I can't afford to optimize my gear.

[Sarge]

I've shot quite a lot of .45 ACP, WW-USA 230 JHP.

It is the slickest-feeding JHP I have found in 1911 pistols.

It expands well:


It is accurate:


I trust it enough that I use it for my standard .45 duty/carry load. The advantage to using a load like this is that you can shoot more of it, proving your gun's reliability and exactly where it shoots with your carry load.

Compared to the premium stuff? I've got five bucks that says the coroner would never be able to tell the difference,

[hoytinak]

I got to where when I carry my S&W 1911 commander I carry the Winchester White Box 230 gr. Personal Protection rounds in it as the S&W loves them and the cost low enough that I can practice with it alot too.

[JasonJ]

would have been nice to see the Bersa thunder 45 full size instead of the shorter barrelled ultra compact...

i think the comparison would be much closer.

[HogManMagnum]

Compared to the premium stuff? I've got five bucks that says the coroner would never be able to tell the difference,

beautifull.

i guess it comes down to a matter of opinion, if the extra few dollars is worth it for the premium stuff, but after hearing so much endless gun-nerd discussions about which bullet is the 'best' i want to hear what everybody has to say about just a plain old regular JHP...

any yes, obviously this comes into account after picking a good caliber, practicing shot placement and ensuring reliable feeding...

[BurkGlocker]

All of the WWB 147gr JHP that I have recovered from expansion tests have had the same expansion characteristics as the Ranger Ts except for the impressive talons that stick out of the side of it, but the Rangers are only just a couple of bucks more than the WWB stuff, so I just stick with them or the HSTs...

[sholling]

I stick to Doc's list. He makes his living testing terminal ballistics for law enforcement agencies and somehow I've never seen Winchester White Box anywhere on his list list of proven performers. The reality is that if you buy premium LE ammunition online you can get it at a price plenty low enough to prove in your pistol. There is absolutely no reason to carry anything less. There is also no reason that you need to shoot 500rds of premium ammo every week. Prove your HSTs or Ranger-Ts in your weapon with 100-200rds (<$50-100) and then practice with cheap FMJ.

Of course if your life is only worth $20 to you then there is always WWB.

[BurkGlocker]

Most of the Rangers and HSTs that I have found online are only $20 a box, so I guess I will trust my life to a $20 box of ammo... (and no sholling, that wasnt a cheap shot...^5 )

[WESHOOT2]

IMO&E 'modern-design' JHP bullets offer a greater likelyhood of proper expansion after impact; worth the few extra dollars.

I mean, we're talking about betting our life, ay?

[WESHOOT2]

In my premier 45 I have a mag-full of my nickel-cased uber-super 230g Golden Saber load; in its brother I have a mag-full of 230g LRN.

In my bedside Major-caliber gun I have 180g TCJ-FP.
In my other loaded guns (most are in the safe) I have LRN and LSWC and FMJ and TCJ-RN and I don't care; hits, bro, is what matters most.


Never forget Goliath and that little well-placed rock......

[Double Naught Spy]

would have been nice to see the Bersa thunder 45 full size instead of the shorter barrelled ultra compact...

i think the comparison would be much closer.

You mean like the SA Mil Spec in post #2?

[sholling]

Most of the Rangers and HSTs that I have found online are only $20 a box, so I guess I will trust my life to a $20 box of ammo... (and no sholling, that wasnt a cheap shot...^5 )

Exactly my point. I keep 147gr HST in my 9mms, 180gr HSTs in my 40s, and 230gr +P HST in my full sized 45s and none of those costs me over $20-25 for a box of 50rds and are scientifically proven to achieve optimum penetration and expansion. It's the same story for Ranger-T. I'll never figure out why someone would want to be stubbornly pound foolish and depend on WWB? Are they saving a whole $1? Well my life is worth more to me than a buck.

FYI, the only time I deviate from the price performance advantage of HSTs is for very short barreled pistols. Those get the pricey God Dot for Short Barrels or Federal LE Bonded.

[rugersp101]

there are plenty of great lower price HP's available from Fiocchi Extrema's loaded with Hornady XTP's( a real money saving made in the USA value), PMC Starfire( a uniquely devastating round), Winchester silvertips,etc.. These are usually in the price saving 50 pack boxes versus the 20 count high price rounds. Cheaperthandirt.com is a great place to save money and everything I have ordered from them is shipped very quickly.Of course if I had it my way I would walk around with my Thompson M1 short barrel instead of any pistol

[JohnKSa]

IMO&E 'modern-design' JHP bullets offer a greater likelyhood of proper expansion after impact; worth the few extra dollars.

I suspect both budget and premium JHP rounds will perform similarly in unclothed gelatin. I think the difference will come when testing clothed gelatin. I would expect the good stuff to expand well even after penetrating clothing while the budget JHPs are likely to clog and remain unexpanded.

[Water-Man]

Just look up the prices of Federal LE HST on AmmunitionToGo.com.

[Moe Howard]

I carry premium ammo in my 9mm just because I bought a bunch of it a few years ago and still have quite a bit of it. However I carry the WWB JHP in my .357sig and my .45. Every test I have seen done with all types of JHP the difference in performance is minimal at best so IMO I don't see the need to buy more expensive ammo. I even shoot it for practice in .357sig, it is only $1.50 a box more than the FMJ.

[xnavy]

+1 on the HST's for sale at ammunitiontogo.com. I buy all my SD ammo there.

[hoytinak]

+1 on the HST's for sale at ammunitiontogo.com. I buy all my SD ammo there.

How much is the shipping there?

[James K]

IMHO, only two things really count when things go down hard. The first is absolute utter reliability. Any ammo that won't feed 100%, fire 100%, extract 100% and eject 100%IN YOUR GUN is no good TO YOU, no matter how much it expands or how much it costs, or what expert recommends it.

The other thing is hitting where it will do the most damage the fastest.

Those pretty pictures don't mean a thing.

Jim

[Rampant_Colt]

I concur with Jim Keenan's post

[Webleymkv]

It depends upon the caliber, loading, and personal preference.

In 9mm, I always go with premium stuff like Cor-Bon or Winchester Ranger SXT because I like 124-127grn bullets going 1250fps+.

In .32 ACP, I use S&B 73grn FMJ because I value penetration.

In .45ACP I use Federal 230grn HST+P because I like the extra velocity and I can get them for only a few dollars more than WWB

In .357 Magnum I use Remington Express 158grn JHP because the premium loads don't offer a 158grn half-jacketed hollowpoint.

In .44 Special I use Federal Champion 200grn LSWCHP because it's the only all lead hollowpoint I can find.

In .44 Magnum I use Remington Express 240grn JHP because it seems as good as any.

In .38 Special I use Hornady 158grn XTP's because they're the only standard pressure 158grn JHP's I could get locally.

In 7.62x25 I use S&B 85grn FMJ because it's the only ammo I can get locally that goes bang every time the trigger is pulled.

In .22lr I use CCI velocitor because I want all the penetration I can get with a .22

[obxned]

In the real world, there is probably no significant statistical difference in the results, but ........

[VA9mm]

I put no price on what I carry in my gun. If I should ever have to use my firearm it is because some bad S*** is going down and I want the threat stopped immediatley. Shot placement is 98% of the equation but the other 2% is ammo selection. Like others have said make sure your selection works in your firearm.

Yes I pay $36 a box for DPX 9mm and that is because I want the best sd ammo I can find.

Don't waste time worrying about one shot stop percentages.