Tired of hearing about Remington 700's! - Page 4

sc928porsche · October 22, 2008, 08:45 AM

Remington makes a good rifle. I have never cared for the "sloppy" feel of the bolt once it is opened. Winchester, Ruger, Sako, Savage all have a better feel. The remington reminds me of the old milsurp with the bolts open.

This does not make for an inaccurate rifle once the bolt is locked but it just makes me wonder why they couldnt have made the bolt a better fit.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · October 22, 2008, 11:08 AM

Let's see:

1000 rounds for the rifle to break in to be accurate.

1000/20rnds per box=50 boxes of ammo

50 boxes times say $25 a box=$1250

Or you could just go get a rifle that works out of the box for a lot less.

mkg · October 22, 2008, 11:59 AM

O-BG

Or this

Savage model 12 action ( stainless ) ... $365 -Northlander shooting supply
Shelien 26 " stainless hand lapped select match barrel ... $270 -Northlander shooting supply
B&C Duramax stock ... $100 - Midway

Tack driver for $735 Out of the boxes
Save you shoulder and ammo

Mike

nra_guns_winner · October 22, 2008, 01:21 PM

Talk about bolt fit, I once had a Colt Sauer made in Germany. That bolt was like bushing ball bearings. I've never felt such a slick bolt in my life. I'd buy an complete action for a project gun any day of the week. But I'm a left handed shooter and this gun was just not for me, it had to go.

skinewmexico · October 23, 2008, 09:41 PM

Quote:

The .270 is destined to become a 7mmWSM as soon as I get the parts together. Bolt face , barrel and an hour in the basement, I'm good to go.

Mike

What do you do to take that long to change the barrel on a Savage? Make cookies?

Brad Clodfelter · October 23, 2008, 10:16 PM

I've had 2 700BDL's and both shot well. The 700BDL 25-06 will stack bullets at 100yds with Fed Premium loads.

I had a 700 Sendero 25-05 with a stainless fluted barrel, and it would shot 3/8" ctc 3 shot groups with Fed Premium ballistic tip loads or the Sierra Pro Hunter bullets from a cold barrel. It was a very tight shooter. My buddy had the same gun except he had the carbon moly barrel. He wanted me to shoot it. My first 3 shots with Win 90gr positve expanding point bullet loads printed a 1/4" group. I shot another 3 shot group and stacked the first 2 shot just like the first group. The 3rd shot went off a a bit due to the barrel finally heating up a bit. His seemed to out shoot mine. It had a thicker barrel and more steel to heat up is what I believe why his shot better.

Brad Clodfelter · October 23, 2008, 10:18 PM

I still honestly believe that the 700BDL is one of the best quality and best looking bolt actions for the money.

I think the Savage bolt actions are probably the most accurate though.

j.chappell · October 23, 2008, 11:23 PM

Brad,

I love older BDL's. If I come across one for a decent price I snag it up.

Inspector3711 · October 24, 2008, 03:15 AM

This discussion is something else. Remington makes great rifles in general. Is every Rem700 a tack driver out of the box? Nope! I have one that shoots .75" groups (.223) which is good but not exceptional and I have another that shoots .500" (.22-250) and I'm still breaking it in (for the folks that don't know, thats 100 rounds, not 1000 rounds and a Savage or Tikka isn't much cheaper than a Remy these days).

I've seen Savage rifles that are in both boats as well. I saw a guy with a 110 last winter that was shooting 2" groups the first time he ever fired it. He wasn't pleased and looked very confused. Hopefully he found a load it liked later or it broke in better. Maybe it needed rework. I saw another guy pull a 17HMR out of the box and within 50 rounds he was making one ragged hole, it was stringing vertically for the first few shots. I'm going to estimate a .300" group for that little Savage.

Every car company makes a lemon now and then too.

I have a cheapie 10/22 varmint barrel that will shoot 10 shot .500" groups at 50 yards with the stock trigger while most barrels of this brand and model shoot 1" 5 shot groups. I have put it up against $300+ barrels and was pleased. It was $100 new. In that case I got lucky.

Nothing wrong with most bolt action rifles today. Let the Remington guy that got a good shooter be proud and let the Savage guy be proud too. There are Rems that will shoot with Savage out of the box and visa versa. If you get tired of Remington or Savage posts then don't read them.

Someone didn't like the slop you feel when the Remington bolt is open... Try that on a Mauser sometime, it easily has twice the slop. That slop helps keep a Mauser working in the mud. I have a sloppy 30 year old Commercial Mauser in .25-06 that will make a cloverleaf with the right loads. It's bone stock except for the wood.

mkg · October 24, 2008, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Quote:
The .270 is destined to become a 7mmWSM as soon as I get the parts together. Bolt face , barrel and an hour in the basement, I'm good to go.

Mike
What do you do to take that long to change the barrel on a Savage? Make cookies?

No cookies , I've got to change the bolt face too !

Mike

Slamfire · October 29, 2008, 06:16 PM

I don’t own the universe of M700’s, but based on my first data point, I wonder if the accuracy complaints about M700’s are due to poor action bedding.

I own a M700 classic in 6.5 Swede. I conducted load development and found the thing was not necessarily a tack driver. At 100 yards it did shoot under 2”, which I consider perfectly acceptable for deer hunting. If the rifle shoots 2 MOA, then it will hit within four inches at 200 yards, six inches at 300 yards. That is plenty good, considering that I don’t hold much better with a lightweight rifle off the bench.

I have couple of "before glassbedding" targets. Everything is at 100 yards. If you notice the wide horizontal dispersion with 140 SMK’s. Sierra match bullets are in a word, superb. In a match barrel they will shoot bug hole groups. This side to side movement indicated to me that something was wrong with the bedding. The action, or the barrel was moving left and right in the stock.

One thing I found was that this rifle, and someone else confirmed their rifle was similar, Remington created a raised area in the barrel channel which created a pressure point. I like free floated barrels. When a barrel heats up it will expand. If there is a pressure point, or a bearing point on the barrel, as the barrel expands, the pressure against the barrel changes. This will cause a change in a point of impact.

So with stock channel tools, I scraped the barrel channel, removing the pressure point, and created a clearance so the barrel no longer touched the left side of the barrel channel. I suspect the left side of the barrel touching the stock created a lot of side to side movements. But not all. If the recoil lug is free to slide around in the stock, the action will shift during recoil.

I “pillar” bedded creating columns of Bisonite, and then I routed a humongous amount of wood forward of the magazine recess, and filled that with Bisonite. The final bedding looks awful, with voids, and it is not completely filled out around the recoil lug recess. But I was tired and grumpy and wanted to shoot my rifle, so I put it back together and took it to the range.

In my opinion it shot much better. These targets were fired fast, about five shots under a minute, maybe two. I racked the bolt and shot if the crosshairs looked good. The barrel was hot enough to be uncomfortable to touch.

Anyway, just bedding this rifle changed its group size considerably. These lightweight rifles are hard to shoot, they are twitchy, they kick hard, and they are very sensitive to stock weld and shooting position. Still, this rifle might shoot under 1 MOA, which is excellent for a deer rifle.

I had fun busting red clay pigeons at 200 yards with the thing. Just had to hold at the top of the red dot, and the pigeon shattered.

This improvement so encouraged me, that I bought a new stock for my other M700. It is a 30-06 in a Remington "tupperware" stock. I am going to put it in a laminated stock, and I am going to pillar that. I hope that I can get it to shoot under MOA.

Why? Complusive behavior I guess.

j.chappell · October 29, 2008, 06:34 PM

SlamFire1,

I would have left the rifle alone for a while and looked into my loads a little closer. Extreme spreads in excess of 100fps are not good. You will find that load refinement will help your loads greatly.

Also you will at least want that recoil lug fully bedded.

J.

October 22, 2008, 11:08 AM	#77
Omaha-BeenGlockin Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2001 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 1,183	Let's see: 1000 rounds for the rifle to break in to be accurate. 1000/20rnds per box=50 boxes of ammo 50 boxes times say $25 a box=$1250 Or you could just go get a rifle that works out of the box for a lot less. __________________ I take the leech that's bleeding me Can't stop to save my soul I take the leash that's leading me -------Metallica

October 24, 2008, 03:15 AM	#84
Inspector3711 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2008 Location: Puget Sound Washington Posts: 1,553	This discussion is something else. Remington makes great rifles in general. Is every Rem700 a tack driver out of the box? Nope! I have one that shoots .75" groups (.223) which is good but not exceptional and I have another that shoots .500" (.22-250) and I'm still breaking it in (for the folks that don't know, thats 100 rounds, not 1000 rounds and a Savage or Tikka isn't much cheaper than a Remy these days). I've seen Savage rifles that are in both boats as well. I saw a guy with a 110 last winter that was shooting 2" groups the first time he ever fired it. He wasn't pleased and looked very confused. Hopefully he found a load it liked later or it broke in better. Maybe it needed rework. I saw another guy pull a 17HMR out of the box and within 50 rounds he was making one ragged hole, it was stringing vertically for the first few shots. I'm going to estimate a .300" group for that little Savage. Every car company makes a lemon now and then too. I have a cheapie 10/22 varmint barrel that will shoot 10 shot .500" groups at 50 yards with the stock trigger while most barrels of this brand and model shoot 1" 5 shot groups. I have put it up against $300+ barrels and was pleased. It was $100 new. In that case I got lucky. Nothing wrong with most bolt action rifles today. Let the Remington guy that got a good shooter be proud and let the Savage guy be proud too. There are Rems that will shoot with Savage out of the box and visa versa. If you get tired of Remington or Savage posts then don't read them. Someone didn't like the slop you feel when the Remington bolt is open... Try that on a Mauser sometime, it easily has twice the slop. That slop helps keep a Mauser working in the mud. I have a sloppy 30 year old Commercial Mauser in .25-06 that will make a cloverleaf with the right loads. It's bone stock except for the wood. __________________ "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." The Dalai Llama (5/15/01, The Seattle Times) "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." George Orwell

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October 22, 2008, 08:45 AM	#76
sc928porsche Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2008 Location: now living in alabama Posts: 2,433	Remington makes a good rifle. I have never cared for the "sloppy" feel of the bolt once it is opened. Winchester, Ruger, Sako, Savage all have a better feel. The remington reminds me of the old milsurp with the bolts open. This does not make for an inaccurate rifle once the bolt is locked but it just makes me wonder why they couldnt have made the bolt a better fit.

October 22, 2008, 11:59 AM	#78
mkg Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2008 Location: NE TN Posts: 188	O-BG Or this Savage model 12 action ( stainless ) ... $365 -Northlander shooting supply Shelien 26 " stainless hand lapped select match barrel ... $270 -Northlander shooting supply B&C Duramax stock ... $100 - Midway Tack driver for $735 Out of the boxes Save you shoulder and ammo Mike

October 23, 2008, 10:16 PM	#81
Brad Clodfelter Registration in progress Join Date: January 26, 2007 Posts: 925	I've had 2 700BDL's and both shot well. The 700BDL 25-06 will stack bullets at 100yds with Fed Premium loads. I had a 700 Sendero 25-05 with a stainless fluted barrel, and it would shot 3/8" ctc 3 shot groups with Fed Premium ballistic tip loads or the Sierra Pro Hunter bullets from a cold barrel. It was a very tight shooter. My buddy had the same gun except he had the carbon moly barrel. He wanted me to shoot it. My first 3 shots with Win 90gr positve expanding point bullet loads printed a 1/4" group. I shot another 3 shot group and stacked the first 2 shot just like the first group. The 3rd shot went off a a bit due to the barrel finally heating up a bit. His seemed to out shoot mine. It had a thicker barrel and more steel to heat up is what I believe why his shot better.

October 23, 2008, 10:18 PM	#82
Brad Clodfelter Registration in progress Join Date: January 26, 2007 Posts: 925	I still honestly believe that the 700BDL is one of the best quality and best looking bolt actions for the money. I think the Savage bolt actions are probably the most accurate though.

October 23, 2008, 11:23 PM	#83
j.chappell Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2008 Posts: 1,125	Brad, I love older BDL's. If I come across one for a decent price I snag it up.

October 29, 2008, 06:16 PM	#86
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	I don’t own the universe of M700’s, but based on my first data point, I wonder if the accuracy complaints about M700’s are due to poor action bedding. I own a M700 classic in 6.5 Swede. I conducted load development and found the thing was not necessarily a tack driver. At 100 yards it did shoot under 2”, which I consider perfectly acceptable for deer hunting. If the rifle shoots 2 MOA, then it will hit within four inches at 200 yards, six inches at 300 yards. That is plenty good, considering that I don’t hold much better with a lightweight rifle off the bench. I have couple of "before glassbedding" targets. Everything is at 100 yards. If you notice the wide horizontal dispersion with 140 SMK’s. Sierra match bullets are in a word, superb. In a match barrel they will shoot bug hole groups. This side to side movement indicated to me that something was wrong with the bedding. The action, or the barrel was moving left and right in the stock. One thing I found was that this rifle, and someone else confirmed their rifle was similar, Remington created a raised area in the barrel channel which created a pressure point. I like free floated barrels. When a barrel heats up it will expand. If there is a pressure point, or a bearing point on the barrel, as the barrel expands, the pressure against the barrel changes. This will cause a change in a point of impact. So with stock channel tools, I scraped the barrel channel, removing the pressure point, and created a clearance so the barrel no longer touched the left side of the barrel channel. I suspect the left side of the barrel touching the stock created a lot of side to side movements. But not all. If the recoil lug is free to slide around in the stock, the action will shift during recoil. I “pillar” bedded creating columns of Bisonite, and then I routed a humongous amount of wood forward of the magazine recess, and filled that with Bisonite. The final bedding looks awful, with voids, and it is not completely filled out around the recoil lug recess. But I was tired and grumpy and wanted to shoot my rifle, so I put it back together and took it to the range. In my opinion it shot much better. These targets were fired fast, about five shots under a minute, maybe two. I racked the bolt and shot if the crosshairs looked good. The barrel was hot enough to be uncomfortable to touch. Anyway, just bedding this rifle changed its group size considerably. These lightweight rifles are hard to shoot, they are twitchy, they kick hard, and they are very sensitive to stock weld and shooting position. Still, this rifle might shoot under 1 MOA, which is excellent for a deer rifle. I had fun busting red clay pigeons at 200 yards with the thing. Just had to hold at the top of the red dot, and the pigeon shattered. This improvement so encouraged me, that I bought a new stock for my other M700. It is a 30-06 in a Remington "tupperware" stock. I am going to put it in a laminated stock, and I am going to pillar that. I hope that I can get it to shoot under MOA. Why? Complusive behavior I guess.

October 29, 2008, 06:34 PM	#87
j.chappell Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2008 Posts: 1,125	SlamFire1, I would have left the rifle alone for a while and looked into my loads a little closer. Extreme spreads in excess of 100fps are not good. You will find that load refinement will help your loads greatly. Also you will at least want that recoil lug fully bedded. J.