The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > The Harley Nolden Memorial Institute for Firearms Research

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 9, 2008, 02:59 PM   #1
ramm11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2008
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 11
could someone tell me how old my gun is

I have a pump 22 L. I heve no idea how old it is. The gun looks great. The only markings on are FABRIQUE NATIONALE DARMES DE GUERRE HERSTAL
HELGIQUE. BROWNING'S PATENT DEPOSE. There are two symbols of a King and Queens Crown and the serial #17362. The gun has been in the family for many many years. I've been to a few web sites, but no luck. Could someone please tell me how old it is? Thank You
ramm11 is offline  
Old November 9, 2008, 06:26 PM   #2
Tom2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,676
Well it might be possibly...An FN Browning trombone pump action .22 repeater? IF you can go to the U.S. patent office website and pull up the drawings of patent no. 1,424,553 and see if it resembles your rifle, it might be on the mark. Said to not be commonly seen in the US. This gun was patented in 1922. Or just post a picture in the forum above this one called Harley Noldens institute..etc.
__________________
Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!
Tom2 is offline  
Old November 9, 2008, 07:58 PM   #3
ramm11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2008
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 11
Thank you

most of the pictures I have seen have a hammer on the top of the gun.This gun has no hammer and I have yet to see a picture like it. When I figure out how to post a picture on this site I will do so. Please forgive my ignorance but I'm not too computer friendly. There are also 2 or 3 markings that I can not discribe on the side of the barrel. This is a short gun, on the left side there is a large screw head just above the trigger.
ramm11 is offline  
Old November 9, 2008, 08:14 PM   #4
ramm11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2008
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 11
Tried

went too the website you offered, no pictures of this gun were available. Thank you for replying
ramm11 is offline  
Old November 9, 2008, 08:18 PM   #5
Tom2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,676
OK, here is the patent drawing of the Browning rifle I looked at, attached to the post. Open it and tell me if it looks anything like that.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Browning rifle.jpg (227.1 KB, 924 views)
__________________
Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!
Tom2 is offline  
Old November 9, 2008, 08:21 PM   #6
22-rimfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,323
Tom you're a good man to have around.
22-rimfire is offline  
Old November 9, 2008, 08:28 PM   #7
ramm11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2008
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 11
WOW.

Tom you're too sober. I went to the site and found no pictures. Thank YOU, Yes this looks like my gun. Do you know how old it might be?
ramm11 is offline  
Old November 9, 2008, 08:36 PM   #8
ramm11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2008
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 11
Sorry Tom

I just finished reading ALL of your post you figure it was 1922?
ramm11 is offline  
Old November 9, 2008, 08:47 PM   #9
22-rimfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,323
According to the Blue Book of Gun Values, there were approx 150,000 of these manufactured. 1922 is the patent date, not a production date. Production extended for some sets until 1985. So the date could vary quite a bit. The book said that the FN barrel address is the most common. The symbols are proof marks.
22-rimfire is offline  
Old November 9, 2008, 09:03 PM   #10
ramm11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2008
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 11
MARKS?

The gun belonged to my Grandpa, I'm now 36. What kind of marks should i look for? OK, I'll do my best. On the bottom of the barrel onto just above the trigger ther are markings it goes like this .22L the next symbol looks like 2 guns crossed/RV Kings Crown/R *C Queens Crown in a circle with E/LG 2 guns crossed/PV *C with an arrow. The only numbers are 17362
ramm11 is offline  
Old November 9, 2008, 09:14 PM   #11
22-rimfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,323
I don't know my proof marks. But the crown with the PV below is "Superior nitro proof", the crown with R below is "rifled arms defense for smokeless proof parabellum pistols, the ELG means definitive black powder proof for breech loading guns, small bore guns and handguns....... these are all Belgian proof marks. I'm looking at a Blue Book for reference.

Maybe someone who is has access to Browning serial numbers and production dates may be able to trace the serial number to a year or approx. year. The serial number is what to pay attention to at this point. The Blue Book has a lot of Browning serial number reference stuff, but not for the Trombone model.

Here is a reference for serial numbers. http://proofhouse.com/browning/

I don't think this link will help you much other than dating it between 1922 and 1974 and pre-1958.

Last edited by 22-rimfire; November 9, 2008 at 09:20 PM.
22-rimfire is offline  
Old November 10, 2008, 06:22 AM   #12
Tom2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,676
Yes, OK, when you go to the patent office, you can easily search for patents by number but to see the pictures etc. you need to download a free program to see their stuff. Weird but easy enough to do. I forget what thefiles are called. But any patent number you can find on an old gun item, go to the patent office and you can call it right up on there once you get the governments program to see the stuff. By the way I am not a genius, or an expert in Browning guns, I just happened to notice the right notation in a Wikipedia entry when doing a search for Browning .22 pump action rifle or such.
__________________
Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!
Tom2 is offline  
Old November 10, 2008, 06:52 AM   #13
tomgun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2008
Location: penna,no wait state
Posts: 187
history

http://www.answers.com/topic/groupe-herstal-s-a
Browning and FN Herstal now began to work closely together, with FN Herstal producing an initial order of 10,000 shotguns. These were sold by Browning within a year, leading Remington to pick up on the design as well. Nevertheless, Browning's closest ties where with FN Herstal, and by 1907 Browning had agreed to allow the Belgian company to manufacture arms using his name. Among the arms produced by the FN Herstal-Browning team in this period were a 9mm military semi-automatic pistol in 1903; a pocket-sized .25 caliber semi-automatic in 1905, and a semi-automatic .22 caliber rifle in 1914. In that year, Browning received the Order of the Knighthood from the Belgian throne in recognition of his contribution to the Belgian company's growing worldwide reputation. The company received more dubious distinction as the maker of the automatic handgun used in the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand, setting off World War I.

if there is no letters with the ser there is no dating available

Last edited by tomgun; November 10, 2008 at 07:01 AM.
tomgun is offline  
Old November 11, 2008, 12:09 AM   #14
ramm11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2008
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 11
No Letters!

Thank you once again, I double checked the ser # and no there is no letters, just numbers. I thank you for all of your help. I will try to go over the gun again and let you know if I find anything different, also I will try to contact Browning first hand. This is a little mystery to me and I would like to find out the answer. I will keep u posted

Last edited by ramm11; November 11, 2008 at 12:15 AM.
ramm11 is offline  
Old November 11, 2008, 06:14 AM   #15
Bud Helms
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 31, 1999
Location: Middle Georgia, USA
Posts: 13,198
ramm11, if and when you get back to this topic, look for it in the Firearms Research forum. I will leave a permanent redirect here in General.
Bud Helms is offline  
Old November 11, 2008, 06:51 AM   #16
jbrown
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2006
Location: minnesota
Posts: 215
put up pics

ram 11-
if you can email pics to me,I can post them here for you.
jbrown is offline  
Old November 11, 2008, 07:00 PM   #17
ramm11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2008
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 11
Pictures

Sure soon as I get a chance and ask my wife to show me how I will send them A>S>A>P. Thank you to all for your help and comments. This is truly a great site.
ramm11 is offline  
Old November 12, 2008, 06:07 PM   #18
21CFA
Junior member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2005
Posts: 146
Great Job, Guys!

Now this series of comments is what makes the site worthwhile. I'll never see that gun, but the support a guy gets just by being curious is gratifying. Amazing.
21CFA is offline  
Old November 12, 2008, 10:51 PM   #19
ramm11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2008
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 11
Pictures Have Been Sent

OK GUY'S, I SENT THE PICTURES TO MR. JBROWN VIA E-MAIL. I AGAIN WOULD LIKE TO THANK ALL OF U WHO HAVE RESPONDED TO MY CRY 4 HELP. I WILL LEAVE IT UP TO MR. JBROWN TO POST THE 9 PICTURES I TOOK OF THE GUN, AND YES MY WIFE SENT THE E-MAIL. THANK U FOR HELPING ME AND FOR LISTENING OR READING MY QUESTION I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM U ALL. HAVE A GREAT EVENING I WILL CHAT SOON.
ramm11 is offline  
Old November 14, 2008, 06:11 PM   #20
Tom2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,676
Peekcher peekchur, where am da peekchur?
__________________
Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!
Tom2 is offline  
Old November 15, 2008, 11:06 AM   #21
ramm11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2008
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 11
Pictures?

HI guy's just wondering if there is a forum here were Mr.jbrown would have posted the pictures? I have saved them so if there is a place here to post them please let me know and I will post them asap. Thank you
ramm11 is offline  
Old November 22, 2008, 06:24 PM   #22
jbrown
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2006
Location: minnesota
Posts: 215
Sorry,I wasnt able to figure out which forum this thread was from or what the owners handle was .here are the pics.This sight only lets you post 6 pics at once,so i have to make two posts to get them all up.











jbrown is offline  
Old November 22, 2008, 06:27 PM   #23
jbrown
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2006
Location: minnesota
Posts: 215




jbrown is offline  
Old November 22, 2008, 06:42 PM   #24
Tom2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,676
Yes it appears to be the gun in the patent drawing to me. I went to the photobucket deal and there were also pictures of an old Winchester 94 rifle at the end for some reason. As for your gun, I suppose some kind of Browning collectors website might be able to define a year or something, from the serial number, if not FN or Browning themselves. That is to esoteric for me, to buy expensive books on FN firearms.
__________________
Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!
Tom2 is offline  
Old November 29, 2008, 04:49 PM   #25
ramm11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2008
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 11
help on a hand gun

k guy's thank you for all youre help. NOW the next part I have come across a little hand gun, it was found in the floor of a house we purchased a while ago. The box of bullets say's its a 32. I'm forwarding a few pictures could you please help me AGAIN with the age!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THANK YOU
ramm11 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.11682 seconds with 8 queries