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Old December 26, 2008, 10:46 PM   #1
cchardwick
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Sheriff illegally takes away a Glock 26 from a Soccer Mom!

This is interesting, check out the story:

Glock Soccer Mom News Release
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Old December 26, 2008, 10:54 PM   #2
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Oh brother :barf:! I hope this "sheriff" loses his job.
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Old December 26, 2008, 11:32 PM   #3
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Every state is different, but if it is legal in her state to carry at the soccer game, by all means carry and sue the sheriff dept. In my state it is illegal to carry on school grounds (I'm not sure if she was on school grounds) but if it were legal, I would always be armed! No criminal about to commit a crime has ever stopped and said "the sign says I can't carry here", and stopped.
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Old December 26, 2008, 11:41 PM   #4
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The incident happened in September.

She's already got her gun back. Her permit was initially revoked but was reinstated by a judge fairly rapidly.

In late November she sued the sheriff for monetary damages and to try to force him to get additional LE education. Her husband has joined the suit against the sheriff on some grounds or another.

She had a concealed carry permit. The problem wasn't that she was carrying, it was that she chose to carry openly. That's also legal by the way. Sounds kinda like maybe she was trying to make a statement... I guess she has her wish.
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Old December 26, 2008, 11:54 PM   #5
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"She had a concealed carry permit. The problem wasn't that she was carrying, it was that she chose to carry openly. That's also legal by the way. Sounds kinda like maybe she was trying to make a statement... I guess she has her wish".

I don't follow your comment. What did she do wrong, if the law allows open carry I don't see how she is making a statement of any kind. I believe the police were trying to make a statement and should recieve a public reprimanded for doing so.

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Old December 27, 2008, 12:32 AM   #6
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"I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it"

it's such a simple and profound statement that no one seems to understand, no matter how many times its said.
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Old December 27, 2008, 12:44 AM   #7
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I have been told that ignorance of the law is no excuse when breaking it---if you don't know a law and break it, you are still liable for your actions.

I don't see why we shouldn't hold law enforcement to the same standards that the general population is held to.


So, although she got her permit back, she should not have gone ONE day without it because some Sheriff didn't know the law or chose to ignore it.

Quote:
In late November she sued the sheriff for monetary damages and to try to force him to get additional LE education. Her husband has joined the suit against the sheriff on some grounds or another.
She should recover monetary damages and at the very least, the Sheriff should get additional training IF he truly doesn't know the law he has sworn to uphold.
I'm glad the woman in question didn't need the protection her permit affords her while it was taken from her for no good reason.

[QUOTE]Sounds kinda like maybe she was trying to make a statement...[QUOTE]

MOST every group of people that share the same beliefs make "statements" from time to time.
Statements are made all the time and actions are taken on things like: abortion, gay rights, Christmas, tee-shirts/clothing, prayer, etc. etc.
Gun owners should not be looked at any differently---we collectively make up a much larger percentage of the population than some other groups do---and some of the other groups get a lot of recognition for their efforts in making statements.
Maybe she is just taking a page out of another groups play book??

If nothing else, she helped someone in LE learn something!!
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Old December 27, 2008, 12:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
She had a concealed carry permit. The problem wasn't that she was carrying, it was that she chose to carry openly. That's also legal by the way. Sounds kinda like maybe she was trying to make a statement... I guess she has her wish.
Or, the Sheriff's Department might have been trying to make a statement.
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Old December 27, 2008, 09:42 AM   #9
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I don't follow your comment. What did she do wrong, if the law allows open carry I don't see how she is making a statement of any kind.
I follow perfectly...

Open carry is the epitome of "in your face" behavior. IMHO, it's just plain ignorant to do so in a public environment.

I see some yahoo in an open carry mode and I immediately suspect his/her emotional stability give the poor choice he/she has already made.

As far as I am concerned, mature people don't display weapons of any sort unless and until they are necessary to safeguard a life...period...

YMMV
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Old December 27, 2008, 10:07 AM   #10
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Quote:
I follow perfectly...

Open carry is the epitome of "in your face" behavior. IMHO, it's just plain ignorant to do so in a public environment.

I see some yahoo in an open carry mode and I immediately suspect his/her emotional stability give the poor choice he/she has already made.

As far as I am concerned, mature people don't display weapons of any sort unless and until they are necessary to safeguard a life...period...

YMMV
I couldn't agree more. It is "in your face" and I don't think it helps our image. Let's face it--guns scare people. We're trying to excersise and retain our rights. If open carry inspires folks to be anti gun, we all lose.

I'm in favor of: carrying responsibly and discretely and keeping a very low profile. No need to make people nervous and attract attention to yourself.

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Old December 27, 2008, 10:10 AM   #11
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I agree with the open carry law-If I were a BG I don't think I would screw with a guy/gal that has a Glock strapped on his/her side in open sight. If one has balls enough to carry it in the open, I am quite sure they have balls enough to use it.
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Old December 27, 2008, 10:23 AM   #12
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What did she do wrong, if the law allows open carry I don't see how she is making a statement of any kind.
I didn't say she was doing anything wrong. I said it looked to me as though she wanted to make a statement (about her right to open carry) and that she got her chance.

The reason I think that her goal was to make a statement is that if her goal was to protect herself and her family she could have legally carried concealed and achieved that goal without any of the hassle she and her family have now been put through.

What she did wasn't wrong, but it certainly wasn't the path of least resistance.
Quote:
Hain said Monday her home-based baby-sitting service has suffered, her children have been harassed, and she has been ostracized by her neighbors because of DeLeo's actions. In one instance, she said, a neighbor who saw Hain in a local store had the manager ask her to leave because she was carrying her handgun.
IMO, most of the things she's complaining about in the above paragraph have nothing to do with what the sheriff did and everything to do with her choice to legally carry openly vs. concealed. Not that her choice was wrong, it's just that it had some pretty predictable consequences.
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Old December 27, 2008, 10:24 AM   #13
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varoadking + 2 !!

Discretion and common sense goes a long way. We keep hearing about what is legal; how about what is ethical. She needs help !!!


Be Safe !!!
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Old December 27, 2008, 10:27 AM   #14
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I agree somewhat, myself I would have chose to conceal, but she broke no law and her 2nd amendment right was violated.

From the interview she doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed...........lol
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Old December 27, 2008, 10:29 AM   #15
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I live in PA and as others stated she was doing nothing wrong however I heard them mention Philadelphia and having lived there I can say they are the most anti-gun cops around there period. Open carry is legal in Pa "accept for cities of the first class" aka Philly. By all means I cant call Philly a first class city with out laughing to myself, but I'm sure if she was near Philly that's why people felt so strongly against it. I'd like to see the details of how the sheriff exactly took away her handgun, if I knew I was in every legal right I don't think I would simply just hand it to him?
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Old December 27, 2008, 10:41 AM   #16
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Open carry is legal in Pa "accept for cities of the first class" aka Philly.
I am originally from Philly and agree, its the only city in PA designated as a "city of the first class". You can still carry concealed there however. This woman is in Lebanon in Central PA which od more gun friendly than Philly. It surprises me that people there reacted the way they did to her. While I do not OC in public places, I applaud this woman for legally OCing and fighting the LEO for harrassing her.
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Old December 27, 2008, 11:01 AM   #17
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I don't follow your comment. What did she do wrong, if the law allows open carry I don't see how she is making a statement of any kind.
Carrying openly is a nice way to **** off large groups of people who do not support any form of carry. Given the majority of people know nothing about carry she did an excellent job of scaring the flock.

Revoking her permit was wrong and outside the sheriff's powers. The woman is still a moron.
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Old December 27, 2008, 12:25 PM   #18
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It's time for ropes and lampposts!!

The corrupt government will soon stack the courts against us.
It's time for gun owners to learn the true meaning of the Second Amendment!!
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Old December 27, 2008, 12:37 PM   #19
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Everytime anyone carries openly in a heavily populated area they're making a statement.

If they attract a lot of attention, it's because that's what they wanted to do in the first place. I don't think complaining about it afterwards makes a lot of sense.

Me?? I'm not interested in statements. I carry for protection of myself and loved ones. I carry concealed. I think that open carry leaves you tactically dis-advantaged, in the advent of a violent confrontation.

I did see a lengthy debate panel that Melanie took part in, and she was an articulate, intelligent spokesperson for the 2A cause. That still doesn't mean I think her mode of carry was very smart.
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Old December 27, 2008, 12:48 PM   #20
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If I lived out there I'd get all the parents together and try to get as many as possible to open carry at the soccer game, that would make a statement!

During the interview you could tell she was like a deer in headlights, she was scared to death and had stagefright big time. Don't take that as her not being smart, she was put in the spotlight in front of the whole world and that in itself would make most people freeze up.

It doesn't matter if what she did was smart or not, it's her legal right to open carry. If more people open carried the bad guy would be less likely to start a confrontation with anyone in my opinion. I think open carry is smarter than concealed. A bad guy is going to confront people no matter what and I bet he would rather confront someone where no guns are present at all. In fact most of the worst crimes and shooting sprees occur in 'gun free zones'. Just one person carrying in a crowd is going to make all the bad guys think twice before doing something stupid. I applaud this lady, way to go soccer mom!

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Old December 27, 2008, 12:50 PM   #21
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Criminals don't acknowledge "gun free" zones. So I don't either. I'm glad she got her gun back and the ego maniacal sheriff should be fired and run out of town.
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Old December 27, 2008, 01:03 PM   #22
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Agreed. We should exersize our rights and fight for them or there will come a time where they will look at open carry and decided that it's obsolete and silently sweep it under the rug.
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Old December 27, 2008, 03:54 PM   #23
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The law enforcement officer has to do whats right and make common sense decisions within their authority.

In this case, she was openly carrying around a group of children at a game. This isnt illegal, but I would say it is suspicious behavior. How many people do you see openly carrying weapons around groups of children? If my children were in that game, then I would be very concerned.

The Sheriff should have taken the woman aside and questioned her about this behavior. Checked her identification and ran her for warrants. Then taken the weapon away upon further investigation. When the investigation was completed, then the weapon should have been provided back to her.

There are many good reasons to perform a Terry stop in this situation. There are very few times, if any, that the police have ever seen someone openly carrying a pistol at a game full of children. There have been incidents in the past which involved school shootings. She was acting in a suspicious manner by openly carrying the pistol.

This is constitutional and what is known as a Terry stop.

I dont think the Sheriff should have taken it further, but the weapon should have been taken away and she should have been questioned about this behavior. I would not have concluded the investigation until the game was over

If someone was open carrying out on a large multi-acre Texas ranch then the circumstances would be different. Anyone who open carries in an area full of children or populated area should be stopped, questioned and their name checked for warrants. If someone was openly carrying right outside of my residence on the street then my expectation is for police to stop and question that person.

I might get some flames for this post, but understand that I support common sense decisions. I believe its common sense to question people who have firearms out openly around children.

Last edited by JohnH1963; December 27, 2008 at 04:00 PM.
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Old December 27, 2008, 03:54 PM   #24
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My boss CC's on a normal basis and only open carries while he is on his motorcycle. It's because of the "in your face" statement it makes that it's a comfort on the road.

With the exception of that and perhaps a few other circumstances, open carry is not that great an idea.
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Old December 27, 2008, 04:17 PM   #25
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Open carrying a weapon will produce one of three reactions:

1) No reaction
2) A reaction where people want to distance or seperate themselves from you.
3) A reaction where someone wants to get closer and attempt to disarm you.

Concealed carrying a weapon, if done legally and in a common sense manner, will not illicit any responses.
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