Help Identifying Early Revolver.

Smitty86 · February 9, 2009, 05:39 PM

I just recieved this rather rusty relic from the passing of my Grandfather.

All we know about this particular one was that it was owned by my Great Grandfather who fought in WW1 for the Canadian Military.

The registration identifies it as:

Make - P. Coquette
Type - R (assume that means revolver)
Model - area is blank, no designation
Calibre - .44
Shots - 6
Barrel - 5 1/2

James K · February 9, 2009, 10:07 PM

The pics are not very good, but I think I can safely say that it never was a Canadian service revolver. It looks like it might have originated in Belgium, but even that is uncertain.

Can you take better pics, especially of any markings, or let us know what the markings are, if any. If it is Belgian, one mark might be the letters E L G in an oval.

Jim

**Mike Irwin** · February 9, 2009, 10:09 PM

My best guess is that it's Belgian or French.

As for the caliber, it's most likely the 11mm French Ordnance Revolver, a rather low powered round fir chambered in the Mle 1873 French Ordnance Revolver (your revolver somewhat resembles it).

Smitty86 · February 9, 2009, 10:25 PM

Yeah, I wasn't too thrilled with the photos myself. I'm currently 7 hours north of the handgun, as my Grandfather lived in the US, in the care of my Aunt.

What the family history states is that it is Austrian, but since none of my research has turned up anything I quickly dismissed that.

I'll try to get her to take down all the markings on it. There was no serial number, but she did find "NIL" stamped into it.

I'm hoping she'll get the focus right

**Mike Irwin** · February 10, 2009, 01:36 AM

It might have come from Austria, or an Austrian, but only by way of its origins in either France or Belgium.

It's very obviously based on the Chamelot-Devigne (sp?) action mechanism, and shares a LOT of traits with many millions of guns made in France and Belgium that used that double-action mechanism.

kraigwy · February 10, 2009, 09:17 AM

I cant tell from the pictures, but are there little slots at the rear of each chamber of the cylender. Kind of looks like it, but its hard to tell in the fuzzy pictures.

Are you sure its 44 and not 43 cal. Something like this one but yours appears to be a break open.

Smitty86 · February 10, 2009, 10:14 AM

The Canadian Identification is, uh, sketchy at best. I HIGHLY doubt they verified the calibre prior to registration.

It will take a few days, but I'll get some better shots sent to me and update you on it.

From what I've seen online, it resembles some Belgian Revolvers but make, and model still illudes me. That trigger guard did interest me though. I haden't seen anything like it, until I started lookin' into it an' seen MANY thousand example. Haha.

I'm still waiting to hear about any possible markings that might be on it, (Aside from the NIL that I previously mentioned) and I have a sneaking suspicion I'll be sending my good camera down to her.

**Mike Irwin** · February 10, 2009, 10:18 AM

My reason for guessing the cartridge as 11mm French Ordnance Revolver is taht this became a very common and popular chambering in French and Belgian made guns.

It also measures out very close to .44, and the barrel could easily read that on a plug measurer.

It's definitely NOT a pinfire revolver.

TEDDY · February 13, 2009, 01:42 PM

no Its not an 1873 french,I am working on one. but it is european and i belive I see a hing on bottom I just saw one some where.not english not french,not german, furture east. not russian.I dont think its Italian.some where in middle.

**Mike Irwin** · February 13, 2009, 02:00 PM

Well, no one said it is an Mle. 1873 French Ordnance Revolver, only that it very possibly shares the caliber with that revolver.

Interesting point on it possibly being a break open, though. Upon further examination of the photos, I see what you are seeing and I'm thinking that you're correct.

The apparent maker's name, P. Coquette, really does make a strong inference that it is either French or Belgian origin.

James K · February 14, 2009, 09:34 PM

It may be coincidence, but "NIL" or "[K]NIL" is the Dutch abbreviation for [Royal] Netherlands Indies Army.

Like most colonial armies, they were always on the short end of the weapons issue, and used some odd stuff.
Jim

Smitty86 · March 18, 2009, 12:33 PM

This took WAY longer then I thought to get the pictures, and they aren't exactly great quality but I think its about as good as it'll get.

Here are the marking that were found on it:

Above trigger and below cylinder (chamber)
P.Coquette
Brevete

Is stamped, as opposed to raised cast

On cylinder - also stamped
E
L G
* (a star)
This all appears in a stamped circle, enclosing all letters and symbol

Also on cylinder
a small 'crown' with a letter L directly below it.

So I can assume it is Belgium at the very least correct?

**Mike Irwin** · March 18, 2009, 12:37 PM

ELG positively identifies it as Belgian made.

February 10, 2009, 09:17 AM	#6
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I cant tell from the pictures, but are there little slots at the rear of each chamber of the cylender. Kind of looks like it, but its hard to tell in the fuzzy pictures. Are you sure its 44 and not 43 cal. Something like this one but yours appears to be a break open. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

February 13, 2009, 01:42 PM	#9
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	revolver no Its not an 1873 french,I am working on one. but it is european and i belive I see a hing on bottom I just saw one some where.not english not french,not german, furture east. not russian.I dont think its Italian.some where in middle.

March 18, 2009, 12:37 PM	#13
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	ELG positively identifies it as Belgian made. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

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February 9, 2009, 10:07 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The pics are not very good, but I think I can safely say that it never was a Canadian service revolver. It looks like it might have originated in Belgium, but even that is uncertain. Can you take better pics, especially of any markings, or let us know what the markings are, if any. If it is Belgian, one mark might be the letters E L G in an oval. Jim

February 9, 2009, 10:09 PM	#3
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	My best guess is that it's Belgian or French. As for the caliber, it's most likely the 11mm French Ordnance Revolver, a rather low powered round fir chambered in the Mle 1873 French Ordnance Revolver (your revolver somewhat resembles it).

February 9, 2009, 10:25 PM	#4
Smitty86 Junior Member Join Date: February 9, 2009 Posts: 5	Yeah, I wasn't too thrilled with the photos myself. I'm currently 7 hours north of the handgun, as my Grandfather lived in the US, in the care of my Aunt. What the family history states is that it is Austrian, but since none of my research has turned up anything I quickly dismissed that. I'll try to get her to take down all the markings on it. There was no serial number, but she did find "NIL" stamped into it. I'm hoping she'll get the focus right

February 10, 2009, 01:36 AM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	It might have come from Austria, or an Austrian, but only by way of its origins in either France or Belgium. It's very obviously based on the Chamelot-Devigne (sp?) action mechanism, and shares a LOT of traits with many millions of guns made in France and Belgium that used that double-action mechanism.

February 10, 2009, 10:14 AM	#7
Smitty86 Junior Member Join Date: February 9, 2009 Posts: 5	The Canadian Identification is, uh, sketchy at best. I HIGHLY doubt they verified the calibre prior to registration. It will take a few days, but I'll get some better shots sent to me and update you on it. From what I've seen online, it resembles some Belgian Revolvers but make, and model still illudes me. That trigger guard did interest me though. I haden't seen anything like it, until I started lookin' into it an' seen MANY thousand example. Haha. I'm still waiting to hear about any possible markings that might be on it, (Aside from the NIL that I previously mentioned) and I have a sneaking suspicion I'll be sending my good camera down to her.

February 10, 2009, 10:18 AM	#8
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	My reason for guessing the cartridge as 11mm French Ordnance Revolver is taht this became a very common and popular chambering in French and Belgian made guns. It also measures out very close to .44, and the barrel could easily read that on a plug measurer. It's definitely NOT a pinfire revolver.

February 13, 2009, 02:00 PM	#10
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Well, no one said it is an Mle. 1873 French Ordnance Revolver, only that it very possibly shares the caliber with that revolver. Interesting point on it possibly being a break open, though. Upon further examination of the photos, I see what you are seeing and I'm thinking that you're correct. The apparent maker's name, P. Coquette, really does make a strong inference that it is either French or Belgian origin.

February 14, 2009, 09:34 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	It may be coincidence, but "NIL" or "[K]NIL" is the Dutch abbreviation for [Royal] Netherlands Indies Army. Like most colonial armies, they were always on the short end of the weapons issue, and used some odd stuff. Jim