End Of An Era - No More Mil Brass - Merged Threads

wgb_ks · March 13, 2009, 01:42 AM

I was afraid this would happen. Starting now, all brass sales from the military must be de-miled i.e. crushed!! Take a look at the letter I got below:

http://www.govliquidation.com

Dear Valued Customer:

Please take a moment to note important changes set forth by the Defense Logistics Agency:

Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B. As a result and in conjunction with DLA's current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately. This notice also requires SV to immediately cease delivery of any fired munitions that have been recently sold or on active term contracts, unless the material has been mutilated prior to sale or SV personnel can attest to the mutilation after delivery. A certificate of destruction is required in either case.

Thank you,

DOD Surplus
15051 N Kierland Blvd # 300
Scottsdale, AZ 85254

This means that once-fired mil brass will go through the roof price wise! I got luck because I just purchased and obtained my last order. But, this stinks!

wwmkwood · March 13, 2009, 07:56 AM

I just checked the website, every lot of fired brass states "mutilation not required". This is just another rumor causing panic buying

Powderman · March 13, 2009, 12:10 PM

This is not good ... undoubtedly, there's more to come. ============ Please take a moment to note important changes set forth by the Defense Logistics Agency:

Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B. As a result and in conjunction with DLA's current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately. This notice also requires SV to immediately cease delivery of any fired munitions that have been recently sold or on active term contracts, unless the material has been mutilated prior to sale or SV personnel can attest to the mutilation after delivery. A certificate of destruction is required in either case.

Thank you,

DOD Surplus
15051 N Kierland Blvd # 300
Scottsdale, AZ 85254

__________________________________________

Immediately after I saw this, I tried to purchase brass at www.gibrass.com. No go--he said he cannot sell it until he gets final word that he can dispose of his stock.

David Wile · March 13, 2009, 12:17 PM

Hey Powderman,

Where did you get this DLA quote? Before retiring from the DLA, property disposal from depots was one of the projects I worked. The quote you cited just does not sound like the kind of words that would be used toward this end. It might be true, but the words seem a bit fishy to me.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

dmozer · March 13, 2009, 01:22 PM

I love the paranoid stories I hear on an almost daily basis now. NOTHING has been put down on any table pertaining to bans on anything! Please stop with the paranoid posts about bans, serialization, etc. It is BS and simply causes illogical people to panic and drive up prices. Supply and Demand laws. Rant over.

FrankenMauser · March 13, 2009, 01:26 PM

Although there are regulations that require this on specific bases, I highly doubt it will go military-wide.

The last base I was stationed at didn't allow any fired munitions to leave the premises. Everything was taken to a central collection point, loaded in dump trucks when the time came, and buried near a live impact range. We were an exception to the 'surplus' brass norm, but even we did not mutilate casings.

CrustyFN · March 13, 2009, 02:17 PM

I agree with David. I don't know who you talked to at Gibrass but this is the message on their page.

Quote:

All brass listed below is subject to regulations of the military munitions list.
Consequently, this brass cannot be exported without obtaining an export
license from the U.S. Department of State.

They are talking about exported brass, it doesn't say anything about brass sold in this country.
Rusty

wwmkwood · March 13, 2009, 02:19 PM

Code: B

Description: USML ITEMS - MUTILATION TO THE POINT OF SCRAP REQUIRED OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES . IN THE UNITED STATES, MUTILATION REQUIREMENT DETERMINED BY THE DEMIL INTEGRITY CODE. DOD TRADE SECURITY CONTROLS REQUIRED IN THE UNITED STATES. (SEE DOD 4160.21-M-1, C3.3.1.7)

Powderman · March 13, 2009, 04:32 PM

I received verification of this directly from Jeff Bartlett. Right after I read the original notification, I called him directly and attempted to order some brass.

Another verification can be found at:

http://georgia-arms.com/

Barnacle Brad · March 13, 2009, 04:51 PM

Evidence to the contrary: http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auctio...&convertTo=USD

the_right_reverend · March 13, 2009, 05:13 PM

LOT (22380 LBS APPROX) SMALL ARMS BRASS EXPENDED CARTRIDGE CASES. (9MM)ONE SMALL DRUM. (7. 62)THREE SMALL DRUMS AND SEVEN LARGE DRUMS. (5. 56)TWO LARGE COFFIN CONTAINERS AND TWO LARGE DRUMS. MATERIAL IS BANDED TO WOOD AND STEEL PALLETS INCLUDED IN LOT AND APPROX LOT WEIGHT. MUTILATION NOT REQUIRED.

the only restriction is it can not be exported

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auctio...&convertTo=USD

Slamfire · March 13, 2009, 05:40 PM

It was only a matter of time.

Powderman · March 13, 2009, 05:46 PM

Folks, I hope I am wrong. I REALLY, TRULY do.

Thanks!

Antihero47 · March 13, 2009, 05:57 PM

I'm happy, I got 1300+ of once fired Lake City 7.62 brass. I hope this only bans exports, and not brass sold here to people here.

Inspector3711 · March 13, 2009, 08:51 PM

Looks like they are trying to keep it out of foreign hands is all. More for us.

Some folks are getting quite wealthy. The rumour here was a 100% tax going into effect 1/1/09. Still haven't seen it happen. They're like car salesman.

USASA · March 13, 2009, 09:32 PM

Evidently, an agency of the Department of Defense has issued a directive that all spent military brass must be destroyed.

Here is one link that gives more details: http://www.jpfo.org/alerts03/alert20090313.htm

We can all post our feelings here...which is okay.

But, each of us needs to contact our own congressional and senatorial folks and ask for their help to get this directive reversed.

Here is a simple text message that I sent:

"Dear (Senator/Congressman),

It has come to my attention that an agency of the Department of Defense has just directed that all military fired brass must be destroyed. As a taxpayer, I oppose this action as the sale of spent military brass is a source of income that, to a degree, offsets other government expenditures.

In addition, as one that participates in military rifle shooting matches, it reduces my option to buy reloaded ammunition at a reasonable cost. We must remember, ownership of government property whether new, excess or surplus, is ultimately by the people.

As my (senator/congressman), I request you to represent me and take the necessary actions to reverse this directive by the Department of Defense.

Thank you,

(Signed)
(City, State)"

It's easy to do, as most representatives and senators have a formatted message layout on there website. All you need to do is cut here and paste there. Don't forget to put their name in the greeting and your name in the closing.

BobH · March 13, 2009, 09:45 PM

This one really puzzles me. What's the motivation for destroying the brass? Is it a conspiracy to reduce ammunition? Makes no sense unless there is a hidden agenda that I don't understand. Does this make a market for new military brass larger for some manufacturer who bought the protection in political contributions?

Somebody please educate me. I ain't spendin' my very small currency with congress persons without a lot more information!

D. Manley · March 13, 2009, 10:23 PM

The new regulation is for real. Check the "Splash Page" added today by GEORGIA ARMS. While this may not effect many of us directly or personally, we should all hope it's not a harbinger of what's yet to come...

gc70 · March 13, 2009, 10:28 PM

This is very strange. The linked article (http://www.jpfo.org/alerts03/alert20090313.htm) states:

Quote:

Please take a moment to note important changes set forth by the Defense Logistics Agency:

Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B.

The Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service of the Defense Logistics Agency provides the following definition for Demil Code B:

Quote:

MLI (Non-Significant Military Equipment - Non-SME) --
Demilitarization not required. Trade Security Controls (TSCs) required at disposition.

Government Liquidation, the reported source of the 'news' in the article, provides the same definition of Demil Code B as the DRMS.

Also, Government Liquidation is offering new auctions for fired military brass.

Quote:

Lot Details — Event Id 7121 — Lot Number 5151

LOT (11, 000 LBS) APPROX FIRED BRASS, INCLUDES (280 LBS) 12 GAUGE SHELLS IN WOODEN BOXES & (1) DRUM ON (1)PLT. (820 LBS) . 50 CAL BRASS IN WOODEN BOXES ON (1) PLT. (8, 020 LBS) 5. 56 BRASS IN WOODEN BOXES ON (3) PLTS, 4 DRUMS ON (2) PLTS & (1) WOODEN CRATE. (1, 880 LBS) 7. 62 MM BRASS IN 3 DRUMS ON (2) PLTS. PALLETS, CRATE AND DRUMS INCLUDED IN WEIGHT, CERTIFIED WEIGHT TICKET REQUIRED UPON LOAD OUT. MUTILATION NOT REQUIRED.

Al Norris · March 13, 2009, 10:41 PM

Three threads merged. Some posts deleted as being duplicated after the merge. All threads moved to L&CR.

wgb_ks · March 13, 2009, 11:15 PM

I am a dealer myself - and I got this email from Gov. Liquidation myself! I am not trying to scare anyone I am just tell you what the facts! Right now I am pretty devastated. My business is now on a dead-end road! Maybe we could get a bill through congress and get something going that way. But, that is going to be hard. This policy will make many small mom and pop companies like mine goes under - adding to the very high unemployment rate. Most people might not know but several bases already had the equivalent of Capt. Crunch installed couple months back. When I read about that I knew it was just a matter of time.

On a happy note my last large shipment came in just two weeks ago. So I should have enough brass for my customers for the next year.

USASA · March 13, 2009, 11:30 PM

Deleted......

USASA · March 14, 2009, 05:34 AM

Update:

I can not verify the source or absolute authenticity of my original post. It may be a scam. Although, a person on another forum did post this:

"After reading through the material from JPFO, posted above, I phoned the D.C. office of [Montana] Senator Max Baucus. The gentleman I spoke with there indicated that they had heard about the situation and were - looking into it."

I still sent off a message to my two senators and congressman anyway. Hopefully, one of them will be able to substantiate or debunk this issue.

Slamfire · March 14, 2009, 08:08 AM

Quote:

This one really puzzles me. What's the motivation for destroying the brass?

It keeps cheap brass out of the hands of civilians. So who would that benefit?: Manufacturers of new brass.

Some ammunition manufacturer sent a couple of thousands of dollars of Campaign dollars to a Congressman, with the understanding that his office would press the executive branch to stop surplus sales of useable ammunition components. One call from a Congressional Staffer does wonders. That's how the system works.

So, no more cheap surplus powder, bullets, or brass. And you will never know which Congressman just screwed you.

Congressmen must raise between $500.00/hour (small states) and $2000/hour (big states) of campaign contributions. People who give a couple of thousand of bucks expect something for that money.

Go to www.opensecrets.org and see how much money flows to the various committees, congressmen.

Al Norris · March 14, 2009, 09:20 AM

Everyone have a good nights sleep?

Is the impending doom and gloom hysteria gone? Or at least receded?

If, what appears to have happened is true, then this is an example of a regulation affecting the lives of some of us. Whether this was prompted by political payback or an example of executive orders at work, or nothing more than bureaucratic snafu, those of you that are affected, need to find out.

You need to know exactly what this regulation actually says and when it was implemented. Verify all details about this, before you start ranting and raving to the PTB. Then....

Then you need to define a strategy to overturn this regulation.

But that's not going to happen, if all you do is rant and rave here or on other gun boards.

March 13, 2009, 01:42 AM	#1
wgb_ks Member Join Date: October 16, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 26	End Of An Era - No More Mil Brass - Merged Threads I was afraid this would happen. Starting now, all brass sales from the military must be de-miled i.e. crushed!! Take a look at the letter I got below: http://www.govliquidation.com Dear Valued Customer: Please take a moment to note important changes set forth by the Defense Logistics Agency: Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B. As a result and in conjunction with DLA's current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately. This notice also requires SV to immediately cease delivery of any fired munitions that have been recently sold or on active term contracts, unless the material has been mutilated prior to sale or SV personnel can attest to the mutilation after delivery. A certificate of destruction is required in either case. Thank you, DOD Surplus 15051 N Kierland Blvd # 300 Scottsdale, AZ 85254 This means that once-fired mil brass will go through the roof price wise! I got luck because I just purchased and obtained my last order. But, this stinks!

March 13, 2009, 12:10 PM	#3
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	Get the word out...it has begun. This is not good ... undoubtedly, there's more to come. ============ Please take a moment to note important changes set forth by the Defense Logistics Agency: Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B. As a result and in conjunction with DLA's current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately. This notice also requires SV to immediately cease delivery of any fired munitions that have been recently sold or on active term contracts, unless the material has been mutilated prior to sale or SV personnel can attest to the mutilation after delivery. A certificate of destruction is required in either case. Thank you, DOD Surplus 15051 N Kierland Blvd # 300 Scottsdale, AZ 85254 __________________________________________ Immediately after I saw this, I tried to purchase brass at www.gibrass.com. No go--he said he cannot sell it until he gets final word that he can dispose of his stock.

March 13, 2009, 04:51 PM	#10
Barnacle Brad Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2009 Location: Greybull, Wyoming Posts: 416	Evidence to the contrary: http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auctio...&convertTo=USD __________________ Brad

March 13, 2009, 05:13 PM	#11
the_right_reverend Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2008 Location: Sneads Ferry, Nc Posts: 232	LOT (22380 LBS APPROX) SMALL ARMS BRASS EXPENDED CARTRIDGE CASES. (9MM)ONE SMALL DRUM. (7. 62)THREE SMALL DRUMS AND SEVEN LARGE DRUMS. (5. 56)TWO LARGE COFFIN CONTAINERS AND TWO LARGE DRUMS. MATERIAL IS BANDED TO WOOD AND STEEL PALLETS INCLUDED IN LOT AND APPROX LOT WEIGHT. MUTILATION NOT REQUIRED. the only restriction is it can not be exported http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auctio...&convertTo=USD __________________ It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men....

March 13, 2009, 08:51 PM	#15
Inspector3711 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2008 Location: Puget Sound Washington Posts: 1,553	Looks like they are trying to keep it out of foreign hands is all. More for us. Some folks are getting quite wealthy. The rumour here was a 100% tax going into effect 1/1/09. Still haven't seen it happen. They're like car salesman. __________________ "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." The Dalai Llama (5/15/01, The Seattle Times) "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." George Orwell

March 13, 2009, 07:56 AM	#2
wwmkwood Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 110	I just checked the website, every lot of fired brass states "mutilation not required". This is just another rumor causing panic buying

March 13, 2009, 12:17 PM	#4
David Wile Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2001 Location: Mechanicsburg, PA Posts: 585	Hey Powderman, Where did you get this DLA quote? Before retiring from the DLA, property disposal from depots was one of the projects I worked. The quote you cited just does not sound like the kind of words that would be used toward this end. It might be true, but the words seem a bit fishy to me. Best wishes, Dave Wile

March 13, 2009, 01:22 PM	#5
dmozer Member Join Date: February 25, 2008 Posts: 53	I love the paranoid stories I hear on an almost daily basis now. NOTHING has been put down on any table pertaining to bans on anything! Please stop with the paranoid posts about bans, serialization, etc. It is BS and simply causes illogical people to panic and drive up prices. Supply and Demand laws. Rant over.

March 13, 2009, 01:26 PM	#6
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Although there are regulations that require this on specific bases, I highly doubt it will go military-wide. The last base I was stationed at didn't allow any fired munitions to leave the premises. Everything was taken to a central collection point, loaded in dump trucks when the time came, and buried near a live impact range. We were an exception to the 'surplus' brass norm, but even we did not mutilate casings.

March 13, 2009, 02:19 PM	#8
wwmkwood Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 110	Code: B Description: USML ITEMS - MUTILATION TO THE POINT OF SCRAP REQUIRED OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES . IN THE UNITED STATES, MUTILATION REQUIREMENT DETERMINED BY THE DEMIL INTEGRITY CODE. DOD TRADE SECURITY CONTROLS REQUIRED IN THE UNITED STATES. (SEE DOD 4160.21-M-1, C3.3.1.7)

March 13, 2009, 04:32 PM	#9
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	I received verification of this directly from Jeff Bartlett. Right after I read the original notification, I called him directly and attempted to order some brass. Another verification can be found at: http://georgia-arms.com/

March 13, 2009, 05:40 PM	#12
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	It was only a matter of time.

March 13, 2009, 05:46 PM	#13
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	Folks, I hope I am wrong. I REALLY, TRULY do. Thanks!

March 13, 2009, 05:57 PM	#14
Antihero47 Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2008 Location: Southern California Posts: 111	I'm happy, I got 1300+ of once fired Lake City 7.62 brass. I hope this only bans exports, and not brass sold here to people here.

March 13, 2009, 09:32 PM	#16
USASA Member Join Date: June 27, 2008 Location: Washington State Posts: 84	Destuction of Fired Militay Brass Evidently, an agency of the Department of Defense has issued a directive that all spent military brass must be destroyed. Here is one link that gives more details: http://www.jpfo.org/alerts03/alert20090313.htm We can all post our feelings here...which is okay. But, each of us needs to contact our own congressional and senatorial folks and ask for their help to get this directive reversed. Here is a simple text message that I sent: "Dear (Senator/Congressman), It has come to my attention that an agency of the Department of Defense has just directed that all military fired brass must be destroyed. As a taxpayer, I oppose this action as the sale of spent military brass is a source of income that, to a degree, offsets other government expenditures. In addition, as one that participates in military rifle shooting matches, it reduces my option to buy reloaded ammunition at a reasonable cost. We must remember, ownership of government property whether new, excess or surplus, is ultimately by the people. As my (senator/congressman), I request you to represent me and take the necessary actions to reverse this directive by the Department of Defense. Thank you, (Signed) (City, State)" It's easy to do, as most representatives and senators have a formatted message layout on there website. All you need to do is cut here and paste there. Don't forget to put their name in the greeting and your name in the closing. Last edited by USASA; March 13, 2009 at 09:45 PM.

March 13, 2009, 09:45 PM	#17
BobH Member Join Date: March 4, 2009 Posts: 26	Why? This one really puzzles me. What's the motivation for destroying the brass? Is it a conspiracy to reduce ammunition? Makes no sense unless there is a hidden agenda that I don't understand. Does this make a market for new military brass larger for some manufacturer who bought the protection in political contributions? Somebody please educate me. I ain't spendin' my very small currency with congress persons without a lot more information!

March 13, 2009, 10:23 PM	#18
D. Manley Senior Member Join Date: July 13, 2008 Posts: 299	The new regulation is for real. Check the "Splash Page" added today by GEORGIA ARMS. While this may not effect many of us directly or personally, we should all hope it's not a harbinger of what's yet to come... __________________ *"Old School" ain't all bad...*

March 13, 2009, 10:41 PM	#20
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	Three threads merged. Some posts deleted as being duplicated after the merge. All threads moved to L&CR. Last edited by Al Norris; March 13, 2009 at 10:48 PM. Reason: additional info about merge

March 13, 2009, 11:15 PM	#21
wgb_ks Member Join Date: October 16, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 26	I am a dealer myself - and I got this email from Gov. Liquidation myself! I am not trying to scare anyone I am just tell you what the facts! Right now I am pretty devastated. My business is now on a dead-end road! Maybe we could get a bill through congress and get something going that way. But, that is going to be hard. This policy will make many small mom and pop companies like mine goes under - adding to the very high unemployment rate. Most people might not know but several bases already had the equivalent of Capt. Crunch installed couple months back. When I read about that I knew it was just a matter of time. On a happy note my last large shipment came in just two weeks ago. So I should have enough brass for my customers for the next year. Last edited by wgb_ks; March 13, 2009 at 11:29 PM.

March 13, 2009, 11:30 PM	#22
USASA Member Join Date: June 27, 2008 Location: Washington State Posts: 84	Deleted...... Last edited by USASA; March 14, 2009 at 05:35 AM.

March 14, 2009, 05:34 AM	#23
USASA Member Join Date: June 27, 2008 Location: Washington State Posts: 84	Update: I can not verify the source or absolute authenticity of my original post. It may be a scam. Although, a person on another forum did post this: "After reading through the material from JPFO, posted above, I phoned the D.C. office of [Montana] Senator Max Baucus. The gentleman I spoke with there indicated that they had heard about the situation and were - looking into it." I still sent off a message to my two senators and congressman anyway. Hopefully, one of them will be able to substantiate or debunk this issue.

March 14, 2009, 09:20 AM	#25
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	Everyone have a good nights sleep? Is the impending doom and gloom hysteria gone? Or at least receded? If, what appears to have happened is true, then this is an example of a regulation affecting the lives of some of us. Whether this was prompted by political payback or an example of executive orders at work, or nothing more than bureaucratic snafu, those of you that are affected, need to find out. You need to know exactly what this regulation actually says and when it was implemented. Verify all details about this, before you start ranting and raving to the PTB. Then.... Then you need to define a strategy to overturn this regulation. But that's not going to happen, if all you do is rant and rave here or on other gun boards.