glock 23c blew up last weekend

Dash · March 17, 2009, 04:41 AM

my brother in law and i went to the range last saturday, he brought along his g23c. he used handloaded teflon rounds.

the chamber split, broke the trigger and the mag release. magazine broke and spilled all the contents. shooter's hand was unharmed.

caused by a case head failure, the load was pretty weak or there would have been more damage to the gun and injury to the shooter.

be safe, wear eye protection always.

**JohnKSa** · March 17, 2009, 04:46 AM

Quote:

...handloaded teflon rounds...

Your brother-in-law needs to work on his veracity and his handloading.

I'll reopen this thread with a public apology to you and your brother-in-law if you can PM me verifiable information on where he bought the .40 caliber teflon bullets he put in his handloads.

<<My apologies to Dash & his brother-in-law. I assumed that they were located in the U.S. where no such items were available and that made me quite suspicious of his post.>>

Ruthless4christ · March 17, 2009, 05:23 AM

Yo!! Lets see some pics of that gun!

Dash · March 17, 2009, 05:52 AM

@JohnKSa: thank you for reopening the thread.

Just to clear up some confusion on "Teflon Heads"

"teflon rounds" are quite common here in the Philippines, widely used by IPSC shooters here. they are lead core, teflon or moly coated heads.

i think they are banned in the US because of "anti-armor" properties, but they are false, it is used extensively here so that you will have no lead deposits on your barrel. softer recoiling than lead rounds too.

@Ruthless4christ:

will post some pics of the gun and ammo as soon as i can.

Dash · March 17, 2009, 07:25 AM

Warchild · March 17, 2009, 07:27 AM

Wow! Glad no one was hurt bro! That is crazy.... got any pics of the barrel and ramp? Also, what were the specs on the load? Again, glad no one was hurt.

Dash · March 17, 2009, 07:29 AM

@Warchild: will try to get clearer pics of the chamber.

ZeSpectre · March 17, 2009, 07:48 AM

I don't know about anyone else but it absolutely amazes me how this sort of thing happens and nobody is seriously hurt. Once again my hat is off to the folks who design these guns to handle failure without damaging the shooter.

(which isn't to say that I don't wish these events didn't happen in the first place)

rantingredneck · March 17, 2009, 07:53 AM

Indeed, glad no one was hurt. I suppose the path of least resistance for an autoloader KB is out the bottom of the magazine and the open chamber.

Never personally experienced one but that seems to be the pattern we see in reports of these incidents.

Piper Cub · March 17, 2009, 08:14 AM

Hand loads will do it every time. I see a dissasembled magazine .

LanceOregon · March 17, 2009, 02:57 PM

There is a reason why Glocks Kaboom in that direction:

Compare that to my S&W M&P's barrel:

BillCoe · March 17, 2009, 03:05 PM

Lance Oregon, great pics, very descriptive.

Dash: Your Glock 23 was the .40 caliber ? Glad your Brother in law is fine. Is Glock going to do anything for you folks on this?

**JohnKSa** · March 17, 2009, 03:26 PM

Most manufacturers will not do much to work with you if reloads are involved.

Some will sell you a new gun at factory cost (which is quite generous given that they can't verify that it was a problem with their product) but some won't do anything at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LanceOregon

There is a reason why Glocks Kaboom in that direction:

The round in the picture you posted was clearly overpressure. More chamber support would not have helped--it's easy to see that the chamber was actually compromised by the overpressure round. In other words, if there's enough pressure to split the feedramp away from the chamber and peel it downward there's enough pressure to do the same even if there were more chamber support.

When there's a case failure that is related to lack of chamber support*, the case blows out, the magazine blows out and may be damaged and that's about it. If the chamber splits or the feedramp peels down, there HAS to be more pressure than standard or the steel of the gun would not be affected. It's not like the steel suddenly gets softer and significantly more susceptible to damage when the case blows out.

I'm not sure where the idea got started that when the case fails it somehow compromises the steel barrel and slide...

*RELATED to, not caused by. If chamber support issue caused case failures then no gun without a fully supported chamber would be safe to shoot. The guns are safe to shoot as long as the cases are in good condition. When they get weakened (as by repeated reloadings) then they can blow out. In that situation more chamber support can prevent a case failure. But if the incident compromises the steel of the barrel then the issue is NOT a simple case failure it's an overpressure round. The damage to the steel barrel is sufficient evidence of that fact.

Brian Pfleuger · March 17, 2009, 04:29 PM

My Glock 33 chamber looks MUCH closer to the M&P than the other Glocks in those photos. It is as close to full support as I can imagine is possible. There might be 1/64 inch unsupported area, maybe.

Dash · March 17, 2009, 08:06 PM

@BillCoe yes, the glock is .40sw, with barrel ports. And warranties are not honored here in the Philippines, and just as John said it was voided the moment it fed non factory ammo. Good thing the load was weak, if it was set to major load the damage would have been greater.

i think there is a severe design flaw of the glock .40 barrel due to the unsupported portion of the chamber. I am a range officer and frequent the range, i have witnessed case failures on a .40sw 1911 type armscor pistol with no damage to the gun or the user, and also a taurus PT92 9mm, the lady shooting the gun did not get injured and no damage to the gun.

the best option for my brother in law is to have the glock fixed and use an after market barrel with a better case support.

James K · March 17, 2009, 10:00 PM

I hate to interrupt the Glock bashing, but might I suggest that if the load was a light one, then that round might have been double charged? That really looks like a very high pressure load rather than just a light load with a case failure.

As an example, 4.5 grains of Bullseye is a light load; 9 grains of Bullseye will do just what we saw there, guaranteed.

Jim

protectedbyglock · March 17, 2009, 10:36 PM

Glad nobody got hurt, dash.
I'm also wondering if maybe you got a double charge. Seems very likely. My G21 has taken some pretty hot bullseye loads.

My glock .45 doesn't look like the one in the pic, either.
Did they change that in the later models?
I mean, mines certainly not new (it is a gen 3, though), but it doesn't look near as unsupported as that one in the pic.
If I could find my stupid camera, I'd take a pic for comparison.

shortwave · March 17, 2009, 11:01 PM

Dash, glad you guys are o.k. One day, I hope there will be some kind of database where kabooms with reloads and factory loads are recorded with all makes of guns. There`s got to be a reason (unsupported/less supported chamber) that makes some guns more prone than others. Years ago I reloaded, with help of others, just about all my ammo for revolvers and auto-loaders. The 41mag. being(and still is) my fav. to load. There was a large group(20-30 guys) that loaded for many different cal`s. Different guys had their favorites. We stayed in contact with each other, discussed loads, loaded for each other, swapped brass and loading data. Very seldom did we experience kabooms that are so randomly talked about tobay. We were by far expert loaders. Once loaded 100+- rds. of 41mag. (new cases) so hot the cases split lengthwise and had to remove them out of cyl. with a screwdriver. We experimented. Stupid yes,

but the Smith they were shot out of didn`t kaboom. Still own and shoot same gun today. Have experimented with some crazy 45 acp. loads out of old Springfields(they used to be a dime-a-dozen) that didn`t blow out chambers like you hear about out of some guns today. Everytime someone has a kaboom today seems as though 'the reload' is always to blame. Is it the fact that the brass casings are made from different alloys today???? Is it a fact that people today aren`t as careful when loading??? Or is it a fact that gun manufacturers are building a gun today out of material that are right on the edge of function and KABOOM. Materials that are cheap to produce but yield big profit. P.S. Warning: don`t use reloads in these state of the art, non-chamber supported, overpriced(for what it cost to make) guns. There reliable till they go KABOOM then there will be an explanation for it. How bout building guns safe for recommended reloads with just a smidge extra like they used to be

.

HvyMtl · March 17, 2009, 11:19 PM

I am very thankful there was no injuries.

Has Glock done anything with this seemingly "design flaw?"

Hmm. Was it due to an accidental mis-load?

djohn · March 17, 2009, 11:31 PM

Glock page 29 Notice.The use of other then high quality commercially manufactured ammunitionin good condition or any combination thereof Glock will not honor claims involving this firearm for any reason or cause when such claims are made by the second or sebsequent owner.

I hate reloads especially for semiauto they can be problematic.I have used factory reloads in the past with revolvers only and In one way or another I experienced problems not all the time but more then I would like. I would not recommend any reloads for a Glock 40 or any other glock for that matter.

Glad no one was hurt from the glock KB.

shortwave · March 18, 2009, 12:14 AM

Thanks djohn. Confirms what I`m saying. May miss my guess, buuutt... I won`t own a gun I CAN`T safely reload for, will you? HvyMtl-check the previous threads on this and other forums pertaining to kabooms of Glocks with lack of chamber support. There`s many guns that have their reputation of FTF,FTE but not many more have the KABOOM factor than the Glock... Always blamed on a reload!

HisSoldier · March 18, 2009, 12:20 AM

Quote:

The round in the picture you posted was clearly overpressure. More chamber support would not have helped--it's easy to see that the chamber was actually compromised by the overpressure round. In other words, if there's enough pressure to split the feedramp away from the chamber and peel it downward there's enough pressure to do the same even if there were more chamber support.

It looks to me like the chamber wall is paper thin on the right side.

djohn · March 18, 2009, 12:37 AM

Yes I agree a Gun should be manufactured and well supported of the round it fires,reloads or no reloads but I just dont just reloads thats just me. I do know many people that reload with no issues at all.My firearms are my pride and joy and only get feed with New even if it cost me.To be honest as much as I love glocks the 40 Is not one of them in the Glock lineup.

Dash · March 18, 2009, 12:50 AM

just a side note: i have yet to see a KB from a glock with an aftermarket barrel. my money is still on the case failure and not a double charge.

a fully supported chamber should handle a case failure with no problems.

i had a chat with the local gunsmith here, he had fixed 4 broken glocks with the same KB problem, all were in .40sw. no problems with any other caliber yet.

told me barrel change solved the problems, even when shooting lead head reloads. he recommends 9mm glocks only. thousands of rounds and being commonly used in production division here with no incident, even with stock glock barrels.

djohn · March 18, 2009, 01:21 AM

Well if that the case that the barrel doesn't support well I would think Glock would at least change the barrel for better support by know. I mean its not like the glock 40 just hit the streets.IMO folks should not have to go out a drop another Benjamin for a barrel to be safe.

March 17, 2009, 04:41 AM	#1
Dash Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2007 Posts: 171	glock 23c blew up last weekend my brother in law and i went to the range last saturday, he brought along his g23c. he used handloaded teflon rounds. the chamber split, broke the trigger and the mag release. magazine broke and spilled all the contents. shooter's hand was unharmed. caused by a case head failure, the load was pretty weak or there would have been more damage to the gun and injury to the shooter. be safe, wear eye protection always. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=dashwerks

March 17, 2009, 05:52 AM	#4
Dash Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2007 Posts: 171	@JohnKSa: thank you for reopening the thread. Just to clear up some confusion on "Teflon Heads" "teflon rounds" are quite common here in the Philippines, widely used by IPSC shooters here. they are lead core, teflon or moly coated heads. i think they are banned in the US because of "anti-armor" properties, but they are false, it is used extensively here so that you will have no lead deposits on your barrel. softer recoiling than lead rounds too. @Ruthless4christ: will post some pics of the gun and ammo as soon as i can. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=dashwerks

March 17, 2009, 07:25 AM	#5
Dash Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2007 Posts: 171	__________________ http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=dashwerks

March 17, 2009, 07:27 AM	#6
Warchild Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2009 Posts: 453	Wow! Glad no one was hurt bro! That is crazy.... got any pics of the barrel and ramp? Also, what were the specs on the load? Again, glad no one was hurt. __________________ By any means necessary.... Last edited by Warchild; March 17, 2009 at 07:34 AM.

March 17, 2009, 07:29 AM	#7
Dash Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2007 Posts: 171	@Warchild: will try to get clearer pics of the chamber. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=dashwerks

March 17, 2009, 05:23 AM	#3
Ruthless4christ Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2007 Location: CNY Posts: 790	Yo!! Lets see some pics of that gun!

March 17, 2009, 07:48 AM	#8
ZeSpectre Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Shenandoah Valley Posts: 3,276	I don't know about anyone else but it absolutely amazes me how this sort of thing happens and nobody is seriously hurt. Once again my hat is off to the folks who design these guns to handle failure without damaging the shooter. (which isn't to say that I don't wish these events didn't happen in the first place)

March 17, 2009, 07:53 AM	#9
rantingredneck Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,728	Indeed, glad no one was hurt. I suppose the path of least resistance for an autoloader KB is out the bottom of the magazine and the open chamber. Never personally experienced one but that seems to be the pattern we see in reports of these incidents. __________________ NRA Member NC Hunter's Education Instructor PCCA Member (What's PCCA you ask? <- Check the link)

March 17, 2009, 08:14 AM	#10
Piper Cub Junior member Join Date: February 5, 2009 Location: TEXAS Posts: 491	Hand loads will do it every time. I see a dissasembled magazine . Last edited by Piper Cub; March 17, 2009 at 02:07 PM.

March 17, 2009, 02:57 PM	#11
LanceOregon Junior member Join Date: May 10, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,774	There is a reason why Glocks Kaboom in that direction: Compare that to my S&W M&P's barrel:

March 17, 2009, 03:05 PM	#12
BillCoe Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2008 Posts: 121	Lance Oregon, great pics, very descriptive. Dash: Your Glock 23 was the .40 caliber ? Glad your Brother in law is fine. Is Glock going to do anything for you folks on this?

March 17, 2009, 04:29 PM	#14
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	My Glock 33 chamber looks MUCH closer to the M&P than the other Glocks in those photos. It is as close to full support as I can imagine is possible. There might be 1/64 inch unsupported area, maybe. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

March 17, 2009, 08:06 PM	#15
Dash Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2007 Posts: 171	@BillCoe yes, the glock is .40sw, with barrel ports. And warranties are not honored here in the Philippines, and just as John said it was voided the moment it fed non factory ammo. Good thing the load was weak, if it was set to major load the damage would have been greater. i think there is a severe design flaw of the glock .40 barrel due to the unsupported portion of the chamber. I am a range officer and frequent the range, i have witnessed case failures on a .40sw 1911 type armscor pistol with no damage to the gun or the user, and also a taurus PT92 9mm, the lady shooting the gun did not get injured and no damage to the gun. the best option for my brother in law is to have the glock fixed and use an after market barrel with a better case support. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=dashwerks

March 17, 2009, 10:00 PM	#16
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I hate to interrupt the Glock bashing, but might I suggest that if the load was a light one, then that round might have been double charged? That really looks like a very high pressure load rather than just a light load with a case failure. As an example, 4.5 grains of Bullseye is a light load; 9 grains of Bullseye will do just what we saw there, guaranteed. Jim

March 17, 2009, 10:36 PM	#17
protectedbyglock Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2006 Location: PA Posts: 470	Glad nobody got hurt, dash. I'm also wondering if maybe you got a double charge. Seems very likely. My G21 has taken some pretty hot bullseye loads. My glock .45 doesn't look like the one in the pic, either. Did they change that in the later models? I mean, mines certainly not new (it is a gen 3, though), but it doesn't look near as unsupported as that one in the pic. If I could find my stupid camera, I'd take a pic for comparison. __________________ "Reach out your hand if your cup be empty. If your cup be full, let it be again. Let it be known, there is a fountain, that was not made by the hands of men"

March 17, 2009, 11:01 PM	#18
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	Dash, glad you guys are o.k. One day, I hope there will be some kind of database where kabooms with reloads and factory loads are recorded with all makes of guns. There`s got to be a reason (unsupported/less supported chamber) that makes some guns more prone than others. Years ago I reloaded, with help of others, just about all my ammo for revolvers and auto-loaders. The 41mag. being(and still is) my fav. to load. There was a large group(20-30 guys) that loaded for many different cal`s. Different guys had their favorites. We stayed in contact with each other, discussed loads, loaded for each other, swapped brass and loading data. Very seldom did we experience kabooms that are so randomly talked about tobay. We were by far expert loaders. Once loaded 100+- rds. of 41mag. (new cases) so hot the cases split lengthwise and had to remove them out of cyl. with a screwdriver. We experimented. Stupid yes, but the Smith they were shot out of didn`t kaboom. Still own and shoot same gun today. Have experimented with some crazy 45 acp. loads out of old Springfields(they used to be a dime-a-dozen) that didn`t blow out chambers like you hear about out of some guns today. Everytime someone has a kaboom today seems as though 'the reload' is always to blame. Is it the fact that the brass casings are made from different alloys today???? Is it a fact that people today aren`t as careful when loading??? Or is it a fact that gun manufacturers are building a gun today out of material that are right on the edge of function and KABOOM. Materials that are cheap to produce but yield big profit. P.S. Warning: don`t use reloads in these state of the art, non-chamber supported, overpriced(for what it cost to make) guns. There reliable till they go KABOOM then there will be an explanation for it. How bout building guns safe for recommended reloads with just a smidge extra like they used to be. Last edited by shortwave; March 17, 2009 at 11:12 PM.

March 17, 2009, 11:19 PM	#19
HvyMtl Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2009 Location: Nashvegas, TN Posts: 228	Whoa I am very thankful there was no injuries. Has Glock done anything with this seemingly "design flaw?" Hmm. Was it due to an accidental mis-load? __________________ Μολὼν λάβε

March 17, 2009, 11:31 PM	#20
djohn Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 507	Glock page 29 Notice.The use of other then high quality commercially manufactured ammunitionin good condition or any combination thereof Glock will not honor claims involving this firearm for any reason or cause when such claims are made by the second or sebsequent owner. I hate reloads especially for semiauto they can be problematic.I have used factory reloads in the past with revolvers only and In one way or another I experienced problems not all the time but more then I would like. I would not recommend any reloads for a Glock 40 or any other glock for that matter. Glad no one was hurt from the glock KB. __________________ Dave. Last edited by djohn; March 17, 2009 at 11:36 PM.

March 18, 2009, 12:14 AM	#21
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	Thanks djohn. Confirms what I`m saying. May miss my guess, buuutt... I won`t own a gun I CAN`T safely reload for, will you? HvyMtl-check the previous threads on this and other forums pertaining to kabooms of Glocks with lack of chamber support. There`s many guns that have their reputation of FTF,FTE but not many more have the KABOOM factor than the Glock... Always blamed on a reload! Last edited by shortwave; March 18, 2009 at 12:37 AM.

March 18, 2009, 12:37 AM	#23
djohn Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 507	Yes I agree a Gun should be manufactured and well supported of the round it fires,reloads or no reloads but I just dont just reloads thats just me. I do know many people that reload with no issues at all.My firearms are my pride and joy and only get feed with New even if it cost me.To be honest as much as I love glocks the 40 Is not one of them in the Glock lineup. __________________ Dave. Last edited by djohn; March 18, 2009 at 12:55 AM.

March 18, 2009, 12:50 AM	#24
Dash Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2007 Posts: 171	just a side note: i have yet to see a KB from a glock with an aftermarket barrel. my money is still on the case failure and not a double charge. a fully supported chamber should handle a case failure with no problems. i had a chat with the local gunsmith here, he had fixed 4 broken glocks with the same KB problem, all were in .40sw. no problems with any other caliber yet. told me barrel change solved the problems, even when shooting lead head reloads. he recommends 9mm glocks only. thousands of rounds and being commonly used in production division here with no incident, even with stock glock barrels. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=dashwerks

March 18, 2009, 01:21 AM	#25
djohn Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 507	Well if that the case that the barrel doesn't support well I would think Glock would at least change the barrel for better support by know. I mean its not like the glock 40 just hit the streets.IMO folks should not have to go out a drop another Benjamin for a barrel to be safe. __________________ Dave.