Cimarron Plinkerton

Trooper Tyree · April 15, 2009, 11:20 PM

Anyone have a Plinkerton?

I saw a couple at a gunshow, hadn't heard of or seen them before. It looked like a fun gun and was reasonably priced, so I bought one to play with.

Quality doesn't impress me, there are some tooling marks on the gun, the fit is decent but the edges are a bit ragged here and there, and the barrel is sleeved aluminum whaaa?. It's a cheap .22 though, what can you say?

As a Colt six gun replica though the heft feels right and it appears it's going to be fun to shoot, if I can ever get out to the range with it.

I expect it to wear out pretty quickly but hope I get plenty of fun out of it doing so.

Jim March · April 16, 2009, 01:33 AM

Yup, one here, and I think it has merit as a trainer for an SAA size/heft equivelent like my Ruger New Vaquero. I think it's actually a pretty damned good deal for less than $200. The Single Six is a better gun BUT the Plinkerton allows you to practice draw-and-fire out in the desert (outside of Tucson where I am now) from the same holsters (concealed and open carry) you can pack the NewVaq in. Can't say that for a Single Six or "Heritage" for that matter.

The NewVaq is my daily carry CCW. So training with something close enough to build muscle memory matters to me.

It's basically "pot metal" with decent steel liners in the barrel and cylinder bores. But for all that, mine shoots pretty decent.

If you got it with the 22Mag second cylinder...ummm...yeah, I don't think that's a good idea. It'll hold up fine in 22LR. I'd use the magnum cylinder as a fishing weight, myself...you do NOT want to do anything so silly as to trust your life to a Plinkerton or even shoot anything small'n'furry with it.

It's strong suite: it's cheaper than a reloading setup.

Prince55 · April 16, 2009, 01:36 AM

That's the first one I've seen.
Let us know how it shoots.

Trooper Tyree · April 16, 2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Yup, one here, and I think it has merit as a trainer for an SAA size/heft equivelent like my Ruger New Vaquero. I think it's actually a pretty damned good deal for less than $200. The Single Six is a better gun BUT the Plinkerton allows you to practice draw-and-fire out in the desert (outside of Tucson where I am now) from the same holsters (concealed and open carry) you can pack the NewVaq in. Can't say that for a Single Six or "Heritage" for that matter.

The NewVaq is my daily carry CCW. So training with something close enough to build muscle memory matters to me.

It's basically "pot metal" with decent steel liners in the barrel and cylinder bores. But for all that, mine shoots pretty decent.

If you got it with the 22Mag second cylinder...ummm...yeah, I don't think that's a good idea. It'll hold up fine in 22LR. I'd use the magnum cylinder as a fishing weight, myself...you do NOT want to do anything so silly as to trust your life to a Plinkerton or even shoot anything small'n'furry with it.

It's strong suite: it's cheaper than a reloading setup.

I agree that for the money it's a great trainer/practice gun, I think people just need to be aware that that that is what it is.

My gun didn't come with the mag cylinder, and quite frankly that didn't disappoint me any. Like you, shooting anything more than long rifles in this thing would make me a little bit wary.

If you have small to normal sized hands, and don't need the colt sized copy aspect of it, there are lots of .22 SA revolvers out there that are probably better in a lot of ways for the same or less money.

I have extremely wide hands though, a full frame colt is as small as I can go, I'm only able to get two fingers on the grip even at that.

The smaller framed .22's on the market are extremely uncomforatable for me. Really the only reason I bought it was because it is a full size copy and is something I can practice with economically. In that aspect, I think it's going to be a neat little gun.

I'll post more hopefully this weekend if I get a chance to take it to the range.

CraigC · April 16, 2009, 08:57 AM

I agree with Jim. For what it is, it should do well and would make a fine understudy to a SAA-sized centerfire. The all-steel .22's SAA's are also excellent for the purpose but the weight and balance are very different.

Quote:

I'm only able to get two fingers on the grip even at that.

Just tuck that pinky under like God and Sam Colt intended! But for the record, the Single Six and Colt Frontier Scout have full-sized grips. The Ruger carries the same XR3 or XR3-RED grip frame as the centerfires. Short version on the late model .32's notwithstanding.

carguychris · April 16, 2009, 08:58 AM

Where are they made?

Jim March · April 16, 2009, 11:46 AM

Italy. They're made by Armi Chiappa, an "up and coming" player that has a very good rep with Winchester '92s and other rifles.

Most of their products are not "extreme low budget" like this thing, although they do seem to be working on a line of .22LR trainers for a broad range of handguns.

The build quality on mine for what it is was surprisingly good. I found it at a gun show and made an "impulse buy" after running the checkout. (Actually, I traded my old Charter 38, as I was no longer carrying it after figuring out a good carry rig for the NewVaq.)

No regrets on the deal.

The fact that Cimarron was helping with customer support issues made a difference to me - they have a good rep as go-betweens for various Italian makers, mainly Uberti and Pietta.

CraigC · April 16, 2009, 12:42 PM

Cimarron is great to deal with. Had `em replace a rough 1860 Richards Transition model cartridge conversion no questions asked.

Jim March · April 16, 2009, 01:33 PM

One day I'd like to score a Winchester '92 clone in 357, and based on the Plinkerton I'd definitely consider an Armi Chiappa.

They're actually doing factory "mare's leg" '92s, built and sold as a handgun and with a BATFE letter of support. I'd REALLY like one of those, and have all the parts available to assemble it as a rifle or handgun as desired. And yeah, that's legal if you're careful. A handgun can be legally converted to a rifle so long as you meet both the barrel length (16") and overall length (26") standards at the same time. And then when bringing it back to handgun, again do both at once.

This would be WAY cool if it was all done with take-down parts...

Trooper Tyree · April 16, 2009, 02:44 PM

Hey Jim, how is the cartridge fit on yours?

Mine seems a tad loose. I can load, point the gun up and with a little jiggle they all come unseated. With the port open one or two fall out and the rest just jam the cylinder.

Still haven't had a chance to fire it but feel and pointability seem to be on par with the regular ones. I'm starting to get a bit antsy now. (:

Jim March · April 16, 2009, 03:53 PM

Ummm...shells are SUPPOSED to fall out of a revolver when you point it nose up open.

Other than that, mine is plenty tight enough. Not "match grade" but then again we don't reload 22LR...

Trooper Tyree · April 16, 2009, 04:02 PM

Waal yah, I suppose you're right.

It just seemed a bit too loose to me, the shells wobbled out once just in handling it and jammed it, no upward nose pointing needed.

I'm not a real big handgun man though, usually I've found a rifle or shottie able to do the same job only better.

I guess if they wiggle out I'll just point the nose down and jiggle them right back home.

Perhaps I should check it with a different box of shells too though.

Trooper Tyree · April 18, 2009, 10:32 PM

I made it out to the range today. It's been raining on and off all day, and was starting up again when I made it to the range. The few people who were there packed it up and left leaving me with a empty range. Just how I like it.

All I brought was my Marlin Model 60, the Plinkerton, and a couple boxes of ammo. I didn't do much target punching, just enough to find it's shooting just a tad low, might need to file the sight a bit. After that it was to plinking with the Plinkerton. I rounded up some cans and bottles and tried my hand at making them dance. It took me a bit to get used to the gun but I had them hopping pretty good there after a while.

All total I fired about 400-500 rounds through it. That, is quite a lot of single action shooting in one day for someone who's not used to it. A lot of loading and a lot of cocking. Towards the end I got to where I could still lay down the first four shots pretty quick, but my thumb had fatigued to the point I'd get to the fifth and six shots and the poor little thumb could hardly do it.

Mr. Thumb is feeling rather abused right now.

It performed fine, only a couple failures to fire out of the 400-500 rounds I put through it, and I'd chalk that up to the Remington Ammo, I always have failures to fire with that brand.

I'd say it lives up to it's name, it's a fun inexpensive gun to plink and practice with.

Jim March · April 19, 2009, 12:31 AM

Yeah, Remington rimfire ignition isn't real reliable. CCI is the best, with Federal not far behind. I'm chewing through a bulk-pack of Federal (550rds) with zero failures.

I have one box of 50 CCI Stingers and if I did have to press the Plinkerton into last-ditch defense use, that's what I'd use. Not that I'd recommend it for that role

.

Lashlarue · April 19, 2009, 10:07 AM

I received just this morning from Guns America an email offering a Plinkerton for $100+$1.00 shipping, no photo and it's apparently a new dealer. http://www.gunsamerica.com/921279231...Plinkerton.htmIf I didn't already own a Heritage rough rider with both cylinders, might have been interested...

Trooper Tyree · April 19, 2009, 04:15 PM

I sat down to clean the guns and I this is what I found.

The latter looks like it's been dry fired to hell. It hasn't been.

The top one, well, that's just disturbing.

Do ya suppose it's just a bad cylinder? At this rate it won't last more than a few shooting sessions.

This is at 400-500 rounds, nothing hot, regular long rifle only.

Singlesix1954 · April 19, 2009, 04:29 PM

That sucks! Looks like you better dump it now and go buy a Ruger Single Six. Or a USFA. I am on my way to the vault to look at my Cimmaron 7th Cav. 45 Long Colt to see if it is eroding like that, if so it just became tradeing stock!

Singlesix1954 · April 19, 2009, 04:38 PM

I checked my 45 and there is no evedence of erosion so I don't know what to tell you. Better check with Cimmeron...looks like a manufacture defect to me.
If they have a lot of guns that went out with bad metalergy they may need to start a recall!

Jim March · April 19, 2009, 08:56 PM

My round count is higher than that, all Federal in the 550 pack (pretty mild even as 22LR goes).

What ammo were you shooting?

Trooper Tyree · April 19, 2009, 09:17 PM

All I have been able to get around here is Remington "Golden Bullet". 36 grain, .22's. 1280 fps at muzzle. Thus that's what I was shooting.

I put the better part of a 550 pack through it. I was shooting my rifle a bit as well, so 400-500 rounds or so went through the pistol.

Jim March · April 19, 2009, 10:54 PM

1280? Are you sure? That's WAY hot if from a 5" barrel wheelgun. Is that from a rifle?

Trooper Tyree · April 19, 2009, 11:05 PM

It's from the side of the box.

I would assume that's the rating from a rifle or industry standard of some sort, whatever they use for testing.

I didn't chrono it or anything, I doubt the muzzel velocity on the pistol was anywhere near 1200.

Twas just normal long rifle ammo, been shooting it for years. Prefer anything but Remington due to it's failure to fire issues, but I shoot it from time to time.

So your cylinder doesn't show any such wear or damage?

Too much headspace perhaps? Just a bad cylinder?

I sent a email to Cimarron with the pictures and ? of what needed to be done to resolve the issue.

Hopefully they will get back to me tomorrow and I'll know more.

Jim March · April 19, 2009, 11:53 PM

I'm not sure what's wrong here. Do you have any endshake going on? How much barrel/cylinder gap is there?

There's also issues at the ratchet teeth, making me think something went wrong with the cylinder casting.

Singlesix1954 · April 20, 2009, 07:47 AM

I'm with Jim. The more I look at the photos the more I think it's a factory flaw. Folks say that Cimmaron is good to deel with. I would call them and explain the problem with your new wheelgun. I bet they will do thier best to do right by you.
You can see that the firing pin double printed. This indicates a timing problem. Also seems like the steel is too soft. If the steel is soft the ratchet teeth wear too fast and throw off timing, wich in turn can cause the burn erosion on the front of the soft cylinder. You may be throwing lead out the side of the forcing cone. If you are not afraid to shoot it again you can put up freezer paper 12 in away from the sides of gun and empty a cylinder downrange. If lead is sheering it will go though the paper on either side and you know it's out of time. Check the forceing cone for damage. Revolvers are not made to be shot out of time.
Keep us posted of what they say at Cimmaron.

Trooper Tyree · April 27, 2009, 09:40 PM

I talked to the folks at Cimarron and they gave me the number for Chipawa sp?

I talked to them and they gave me a RA# and told me to package it up in the original box and priority overnight it to them. They'd fix/replace it and recoup me the shipping costs.

I packaged it up and shipped it off. In retrospect though, now that I've had a second to think about it all, was that really legal? I didn't think you could ship fully functional firearms via USPS.

And how do they plan to get it back to me? Are they just going to USPS it back? I thought even warranty work and such had to go though a FFL holder?

April 15, 2009, 11:20 PM	#1
Trooper Tyree Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2009 Posts: 167	Cimarron Plinkerton Anyone have a Plinkerton? I saw a couple at a gunshow, hadn't heard of or seen them before. It looked like a fun gun and was reasonably priced, so I bought one to play with. Quality doesn't impress me, there are some tooling marks on the gun, the fit is decent but the edges are a bit ragged here and there, and the barrel is sleeved aluminum whaaa?. It's a cheap .22 though, what can you say? As a Colt six gun replica though the heft feels right and it appears it's going to be fun to shoot, if I can ever get out to the range with it. I expect it to wear out pretty quickly but hope I get plenty of fun out of it doing so.

April 16, 2009, 01:33 AM	#2
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Yup, one here, and I think it has merit as a trainer for an SAA size/heft equivelent like my Ruger New Vaquero. I think it's actually a pretty damned good deal for less than $200. The Single Six is a better gun BUT the Plinkerton allows you to practice draw-and-fire out in the desert (outside of Tucson where I am now) from the same holsters (concealed and open carry) you can pack the NewVaq in. Can't say that for a Single Six or "Heritage" for that matter. The NewVaq is my daily carry CCW. So training with something close enough to build muscle memory matters to me. It's basically "pot metal" with decent steel liners in the barrel and cylinder bores. But for all that, mine shoots pretty decent. If you got it with the 22Mag second cylinder...ummm...yeah, I don't think that's a good idea. It'll hold up fine in 22LR. I'd use the magnum cylinder as a fishing weight, myself...you do NOT want to do anything so silly as to trust your life to a Plinkerton or even shoot anything small'n'furry with it. It's strong suite: it's cheaper than a reloading setup. __________________ Jim March

April 16, 2009, 08:58 AM	#6
carguychris Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 7,523	Where are they made? __________________ "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak

April 16, 2009, 11:46 AM	#7
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Italy. They're made by Armi Chiappa, an "up and coming" player that has a very good rep with Winchester '92s and other rifles. Most of their products are not "extreme low budget" like this thing, although they do seem to be working on a line of .22LR trainers for a broad range of handguns. The build quality on mine for what it is was surprisingly good. I found it at a gun show and made an "impulse buy" after running the checkout. (Actually, I traded my old Charter 38, as I was no longer carrying it after figuring out a good carry rig for the NewVaq.) No regrets on the deal. The fact that Cimarron was helping with customer support issues made a difference to me - they have a good rep as go-betweens for various Italian makers, mainly Uberti and Pietta. __________________ Jim March

April 16, 2009, 01:33 PM	#9
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	One day I'd like to score a Winchester '92 clone in 357, and based on the Plinkerton I'd definitely consider an Armi Chiappa. They're actually doing factory "mare's leg" '92s, built and sold as a handgun and with a BATFE letter of support. I'd REALLY like one of those, and have all the parts available to assemble it as a rifle or handgun as desired. And yeah, that's legal if you're careful. A handgun can be legally converted to a rifle so long as you meet both the barrel length (16") and overall length (26") standards at the same time. And then when bringing it back to handgun, again do both at once. This would be WAY cool if it was all done with take-down parts... __________________ Jim March

April 16, 2009, 01:36 AM	#3
Prince55 Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2007 Posts: 472	That's the first one I've seen. Let us know how it shoots.

April 16, 2009, 12:42 PM	#8
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	Cimarron is great to deal with. Had `em replace a rough 1860 Richards Transition model cartridge conversion no questions asked.

April 16, 2009, 02:44 PM	#10
Trooper Tyree Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2009 Posts: 167	Hey Jim, how is the cartridge fit on yours? Mine seems a tad loose. I can load, point the gun up and with a little jiggle they all come unseated. With the port open one or two fall out and the rest just jam the cylinder. Still haven't had a chance to fire it but feel and pointability seem to be on par with the regular ones. I'm starting to get a bit antsy now. (:

April 16, 2009, 03:53 PM	#11
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Ummm...shells are SUPPOSED to fall out of a revolver when you point it nose up open. Other than that, mine is plenty tight enough. Not "match grade" but then again we don't reload 22LR... __________________ Jim March

April 16, 2009, 04:02 PM	#12
Trooper Tyree Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2009 Posts: 167	Waal yah, I suppose you're right. It just seemed a bit too loose to me, the shells wobbled out once just in handling it and jammed it, no upward nose pointing needed. I'm not a real big handgun man though, usually I've found a rifle or shottie able to do the same job only better. I guess if they wiggle out I'll just point the nose down and jiggle them right back home. Perhaps I should check it with a different box of shells too though.

April 18, 2009, 10:32 PM	#13
Trooper Tyree Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2009 Posts: 167	I made it out to the range today. It's been raining on and off all day, and was starting up again when I made it to the range. The few people who were there packed it up and left leaving me with a empty range. Just how I like it. All I brought was my Marlin Model 60, the Plinkerton, and a couple boxes of ammo. I didn't do much target punching, just enough to find it's shooting just a tad low, might need to file the sight a bit. After that it was to plinking with the Plinkerton. I rounded up some cans and bottles and tried my hand at making them dance. It took me a bit to get used to the gun but I had them hopping pretty good there after a while. All total I fired about 400-500 rounds through it. That, is quite a lot of single action shooting in one day for someone who's not used to it. A lot of loading and a lot of cocking. Towards the end I got to where I could still lay down the first four shots pretty quick, but my thumb had fatigued to the point I'd get to the fifth and six shots and the poor little thumb could hardly do it. Mr. Thumb is feeling rather abused right now. It performed fine, only a couple failures to fire out of the 400-500 rounds I put through it, and I'd chalk that up to the Remington Ammo, I always have failures to fire with that brand. I'd say it lives up to it's name, it's a fun inexpensive gun to plink and practice with.

April 19, 2009, 12:31 AM	#14
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Yeah, Remington rimfire ignition isn't real reliable. CCI is the best, with Federal not far behind. I'm chewing through a bulk-pack of Federal (550rds) with zero failures. I have one box of 50 CCI Stingers and if I did have to press the Plinkerton into last-ditch defense use, that's what I'd use. Not that I'd recommend it for that role . __________________ Jim March

April 19, 2009, 10:07 AM	#15
Lashlarue Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2008 Posts: 533	I received just this morning from Guns America an email offering a Plinkerton for $100+$1.00 shipping, no photo and it's apparently a new dealer. http://www.gunsamerica.com/921279231...Plinkerton.htmIf I didn't already own a Heritage rough rider with both cylinders, might have been interested... __________________ I've made a lot of money in my life, most was spent on booze, babes, guns, and poker,the rest I wasted!

April 19, 2009, 04:15 PM	#16
Trooper Tyree Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2009 Posts: 167	Disturbing... I sat down to clean the guns and I this is what I found. The latter looks like it's been dry fired to hell. It hasn't been. The top one, well, that's just disturbing. Do ya suppose it's just a bad cylinder? At this rate it won't last more than a few shooting sessions. This is at 400-500 rounds, nothing hot, regular long rifle only.

April 19, 2009, 04:29 PM	#17
Singlesix1954 Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Rural Ne Posts: 580	That sucks! Looks like you better dump it now and go buy a Ruger Single Six. Or a USFA. I am on my way to the vault to look at my Cimmaron 7th Cav. 45 Long Colt to see if it is eroding like that, if so it just became tradeing stock! __________________ Luke 22:36 Single six 1954

April 19, 2009, 04:38 PM	#18
Singlesix1954 Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Rural Ne Posts: 580	I checked my 45 and there is no evedence of erosion so I don't know what to tell you. Better check with Cimmeron...looks like a manufacture defect to me. If they have a lot of guns that went out with bad metalergy they may need to start a recall! __________________ Luke 22:36 Single six 1954

April 19, 2009, 08:56 PM	#19
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	My round count is higher than that, all Federal in the 550 pack (pretty mild even as 22LR goes). What ammo were you shooting? __________________ Jim March

April 19, 2009, 09:17 PM	#20
Trooper Tyree Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2009 Posts: 167	All I have been able to get around here is Remington "Golden Bullet". 36 grain, .22's. 1280 fps at muzzle. Thus that's what I was shooting. I put the better part of a 550 pack through it. I was shooting my rifle a bit as well, so 400-500 rounds or so went through the pistol.

April 19, 2009, 10:54 PM	#21
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	1280? Are you sure? That's WAY hot if from a 5" barrel wheelgun. Is that from a rifle? __________________ Jim March

April 19, 2009, 11:05 PM	#22
Trooper Tyree Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2009 Posts: 167	It's from the side of the box. I would assume that's the rating from a rifle or industry standard of some sort, whatever they use for testing. I didn't chrono it or anything, I doubt the muzzel velocity on the pistol was anywhere near 1200. Twas just normal long rifle ammo, been shooting it for years. Prefer anything but Remington due to it's failure to fire issues, but I shoot it from time to time. So your cylinder doesn't show any such wear or damage? Too much headspace perhaps? Just a bad cylinder? I sent a email to Cimarron with the pictures and ? of what needed to be done to resolve the issue. Hopefully they will get back to me tomorrow and I'll know more. Last edited by Trooper Tyree; April 19, 2009 at 11:10 PM.

April 19, 2009, 11:53 PM	#23
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	I'm not sure what's wrong here. Do you have any endshake going on? How much barrel/cylinder gap is there? There's also issues at the ratchet teeth, making me think something went wrong with the cylinder casting. __________________ Jim March

April 20, 2009, 07:47 AM	#24
Singlesix1954 Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Rural Ne Posts: 580	I'm with Jim. The more I look at the photos the more I think it's a factory flaw. Folks say that Cimmaron is good to deel with. I would call them and explain the problem with your new wheelgun. I bet they will do thier best to do right by you. You can see that the firing pin double printed. This indicates a timing problem. Also seems like the steel is too soft. If the steel is soft the ratchet teeth wear too fast and throw off timing, wich in turn can cause the burn erosion on the front of the soft cylinder. You may be throwing lead out the side of the forcing cone. If you are not afraid to shoot it again you can put up freezer paper 12 in away from the sides of gun and empty a cylinder downrange. If lead is sheering it will go though the paper on either side and you know it's out of time. Check the forceing cone for damage. Revolvers are not made to be shot out of time. Keep us posted of what they say at Cimmaron. __________________ Luke 22:36 Single six 1954 Last edited by Singlesix1954; April 20, 2009 at 08:01 AM.

April 27, 2009, 09:40 PM	#25
Trooper Tyree Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2009 Posts: 167	I talked to the folks at Cimarron and they gave me the number for Chipawa sp? I talked to them and they gave me a RA# and told me to package it up in the original box and priority overnight it to them. They'd fix/replace it and recoup me the shipping costs. I packaged it up and shipped it off. In retrospect though, now that I've had a second to think about it all, was that really legal? I didn't think you could ship fully functional firearms via USPS. And how do they plan to get it back to me? Are they just going to USPS it back? I thought even warranty work and such had to go though a FFL holder?