Nearing to perfection

konuk · June 2, 2009, 07:04 AM

NEARING TO PERFECTION

All over the World, most of the gun enthusiasts know that;
-Glock is not the first polimer framed production pistol,
-Glock is not the first production pistol with precocked triggerwork,
-Neither the polimer composition nor the surface protection process
purely developed for solely Glock pistol...

And...
The Producer deserves the term “Perfection” to the Glock...

What fact within this pistol that courages the producer to use such an
assertive term. Is there any “firsts” hidden therein... Appearently;
-Glock is the first production pistol with a cockable impact element
using the sear integrated with trigger bar,
-Glock is the first production 20th. century pistol with trigger remaining
at drawn back mode in uncocked position,
-Glock is the first 20th,century production pistol with a positive type
laterally working disconnector,
-Glock is the first pistol having passive safeties on each impact realising
elements as on trigger, sear and ,firing pin,
-And the Glock is the first production pistol realising these features
within a very simple and strong package in a small amount of pieces.

The efforts creating an ideal service pistol is to achieve a autoloading
handgun using standart ammunition with easiness and simplicity of a
revolver. Should a designer make a high capasity simple and strong pistol
with similar lockwork like a revolver, loading only inserting a magazine
without manual slide traction, he would pick up all the market share and
all producters nowadays have been trying to reach to near that goal.

Glock, with halfway cocking striker, nears mentioned target as
cooperated with very simple and strong lockwork. Here are some positive
feaures of Glock's approach;

On contrary to frame mounted hammer impact lockworks, the striker
impact elements provided with their all compression points, back and forth,
located within the slide, are cocked during the breechbolt going to battery
position. Or in other words, hammer impact types are cocked during slide
opening and striker impact versions during slide closing and they reach to
highest power on at full batery mode and this gives a very suitable advantage
for them getting rid of risk of battery off accidental firing.Therefore the
further breechblock from breech the lesser the risk of unintentional firing.

Halfway precocking provides the highest safety for possible accidental
discharges since comression power of striker being not enough to realise a
firing and additional travel to full cock and release stage is safe and
comfortable since needs no overweighted pull and lenght for trigger traction.

Discharging a round in the chamber is needed the movement of; trigger,
sear, and firing pin and Glock designers have had each of them of passive
safeties going away with manual trigger traction on its final stage. However,
these safeties may be found on other products and Glock' concept for
them is rather different; Main passive safety of Glock is “Drop Safety” and
it comes from pistol's nature since a sear integrated with trigger bar counts
overweighted as compared to the parts made sear alone and is highly subject to
outside impact's to give an accidental discharge. Therefore, a passive safety for
mentioned part is nearly compulsory. Glock's response for stated need is
“Safety Ramp” on which the trigger bar/sear to rest on until manual trigger
traction. This ramp is a part of polimer disconnector/ejector housing.The
backwardly forcing trigger spring facilitates sear movement during rearwardly
slide travel without trigger pull. Other two passive safeties seem rather
afterconstructed on Glock' lay out ,and the aim for trigger related
one is to prevent the accidental discharges to be occured by unwanted frictions
to trigger and inertia of trigger bar creating a kinetic weight to the sear-striker
connection by accidental drops. The third passive safety for firing pin or striker
carries quite different aim than standart ones since provided thereon for
accidental discharges occurable by unintential slide separation since guide
rails for the same are located as injected within the polimer frame. Standart
firing pin passive safeties are designed for separate firing pins to prevent
discharges caused by outside strikes on mainly hammer impact guns on
either hammer cocked or uncocked modes and since a striker impact gun
carries a live round in the chamber as on its cocked mode only,providing a
passive safety working on uncocked mode is really nounsence..Some other
pistols having steel to steel engagement of slide rails and slideand may not
have a striker passive safety. On the other hand ,the handguns having
precocked or cocked mode must have an automatic drop safety preventing
unintentionaly sear going out of engagement with impact element and only
a firing pin safety as named for said purpose is not enough since the real drop
safety should prevent not only a discharge but disengagement of the
sear-impact element to maintain the possible firing actuatable only by the
trigger movement without need a new cocking action.Therefore
single action pistols without a real drop safety are real compromises.

There were old autoloding pistols like Le Francais, Vz36, Vz38, Vz45
having real DAO features with trigger bars integrated with sear, but in
a pistol having an impact element remaining cocked or semicocked mode
during slide cycling there was never such a part of single piece trigger bar
and sear combination until Glock.

The use of a sear integrated with trigger bar brings some different kind of
disconnector systems and sidewardly acting one is one of the most simple
and wise solutions.But mentioned different part type seems rather
overtolerance needed as causing accidental discharges without the breechbolt
reaching full battery position. Positive disconnectors in production pistols
have mainly two kind of levers for said purpose; sliding, like Browning HP
and Luger, and camming like others ,and both of them needs some minimum
amount of cachtching clearance being not small of 2mm and especially
cammed versions found most of autoloaders said clearance is equal to the
height of camming piece and counts more than said tolerances and cammed
type Glock is not an exception. Therefore there is no pistol such a zero
tolerance for reaching battery on position and besides, Glock has the
advantage of striker firing system reaching dischargeable power, only
on fully closed mode.

All these mentioned features bring the Glock near to “Perfection”but do
they retain it on all over the life.

Users manual of Glock especially points out two “ should be avoided actions”
as directable to trigger and striker safety by means of which the warranty
would be gone off...,

Since trigger is constrantly forced backwards by its spring and trigger
automatic safety can catch it on forwardly position by a manual push
without slide action, retraction of slide causes striker leg to rideover the
sear over the polimer safety ramp and dents there as ruining the drop safety
and repeated slide trackings on this mode deepen the dent and polimer
striker sleeve as well, and on firing, dented safety ramp can not prevent
inertial impacts of slide causing sear and striker disconnection, and striker
forcefully strikes the striker safety body as hammering it and eventually
causing the same as hanging upwards on its recess to give free striker pass
during firing or an outside impact as causing slamfire or accidental fire.

Mentioned defects can be detected during periodical take downs and ruined
parts can be changed if pistol is in a location where the required parts being
available but in other case ,the neared perfection of pistol is on danger.
Most of unaddressed Glock accidents should be caused by mentioned kind
of misusing.

Stretch type coil spring used for the trigger, somewhatly weakens the
“ near to perfection” feature of Glock by cause of its engagement coils being
fragile during long range using but the construction of pistol can manage to
continue the firing as keeping the trigger pressed during slide cycling should
a trigger spring breakage occurs.

The meaning of fewer parts is stronger construction and ,durability especialy
against accidental impacts since the more of the parts and their inertia during
an impact, the much more of unintented strikes and rebounds within the
handgun to give unimaginable results... Glock, really nears to perfection on
mentioned department.

Polimer material can be thought as weak and inferior to steel or alloy versions
for frames especially on polimer sensitive, heat, solvent environments, or on
impacts but, if thought, most of steel framed types, carrying polimer grip plates
hiding vital parts thereunder with even weaker than frame polimer
composition material, to go to make the pistol unusable within the same
conditions, the superiority of metal frames.would really be questionable.

You may not love or like polimer handguns for their quick made appearance
but,with existing tempo of gunmanufacturing, gunlovers of a few decades
after will look at Glock, as a sample of “Masterpiece”.

Best regards

J.Netto · June 2, 2009, 07:22 AM

Well......Thanks for that I guess.

I'm just messing with ya, welcome to TFL!

johnbt · June 2, 2009, 09:48 AM

www.thegunzone.com/glock/problems.html

I thought I'd mess with you, too.

RT · June 2, 2009, 10:17 AM

Welcome.
Cliffs notes, please
"Polymer"

CortJestir · June 2, 2009, 10:23 AM

This kool-aid tastes kinda funny... :barf:

Welcome to TFL!

Brian Pfleuger · June 2, 2009, 10:25 AM

Wow.... seriously dude, I'm a fan of the Glock design but, really, lay off the Kool-Aid.

txstang84 · June 2, 2009, 10:29 AM

...people still buy other "inferior" types of firearms...tsk tsk.

Welcome to TFL konuk.

Alleykat · June 2, 2009, 10:41 AM

I like my Glocks, but that gave me a headache!

LUPUS · June 2, 2009, 02:33 PM

A good kool-aid write up...
And an other welcome to the TFL.
Regards.

Zilmo · June 2, 2009, 02:39 PM

Sorry man, my ADD kicked in and I couldn't read that whole thing.

txstang84 · June 2, 2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Sorry man, my ADD kicked in and I couldn't read that whole thing.

now that's just darn funny!

shortwave · June 2, 2009, 09:11 PM

Can`t top that one Zilmo

. Welcome to TFL konuk! Do you own any other brands of guns?

nitetrane98 · June 2, 2009, 09:28 PM

DUDE!!!!!

Spell check is not your enemy, it may very well carry a Glock.

Quote:

Glock, with halfway cocking striker, nears mentioned target as
cooperated with very simple

I got that far...

neeed alcohoooool

supergas452M · June 2, 2009, 10:50 PM

Amazingly inferior first post on TFL, I cannot say with any sincerity that I will be looking forward to any future ones.:barf:

**Mal H** · June 2, 2009, 10:59 PM

I'm sorry, konuk, but this one has to be locked down. Your post is extremely hard to read and understand. The negative posts are only going to continue, so locking it will at least prevent that.

I realize that English is most likely not your native language (Turkey?), but English is the de facto language of this board. If you want to try for a better translation, please do.

June 2, 2009, 07:04 AM	#1
konuk Junior Member Join Date: June 1, 2009 Posts: 1	Nearing to perfection NEARING TO PERFECTION All over the World, most of the gun enthusiasts know that; -Glock is not the first polimer framed production pistol, -Glock is not the first production pistol with precocked triggerwork, -Neither the polimer composition nor the surface protection process purely developed for solely Glock pistol... And... The Producer deserves the term “Perfection” to the Glock... What fact within this pistol that courages the producer to use such an assertive term. Is there any “firsts” hidden therein... Appearently; -Glock is the first production pistol with a cockable impact element using the sear integrated with trigger bar, -Glock is the first production 20th. century pistol with trigger remaining at drawn back mode in uncocked position, -Glock is the first 20th,century production pistol with a positive type laterally working disconnector, -Glock is the first pistol having passive safeties on each impact realising elements as on trigger, sear and ,firing pin, -And the Glock is the first production pistol realising these features within a very simple and strong package in a small amount of pieces. The efforts creating an ideal service pistol is to achieve a autoloading handgun using standart ammunition with easiness and simplicity of a revolver. Should a designer make a high capasity simple and strong pistol with similar lockwork like a revolver, loading only inserting a magazine without manual slide traction, he would pick up all the market share and all producters nowadays have been trying to reach to near that goal. Glock, with halfway cocking striker, nears mentioned target as cooperated with very simple and strong lockwork. Here are some positive feaures of Glock's approach; On contrary to frame mounted hammer impact lockworks, the striker impact elements provided with their all compression points, back and forth, located within the slide, are cocked during the breechbolt going to battery position. Or in other words, hammer impact types are cocked during slide opening and striker impact versions during slide closing and they reach to highest power on at full batery mode and this gives a very suitable advantage for them getting rid of risk of battery off accidental firing.Therefore the further breechblock from breech the lesser the risk of unintentional firing. Halfway precocking provides the highest safety for possible accidental discharges since comression power of striker being not enough to realise a firing and additional travel to full cock and release stage is safe and comfortable since needs no overweighted pull and lenght for trigger traction. Discharging a round in the chamber is needed the movement of; trigger, sear, and firing pin and Glock designers have had each of them of passive safeties going away with manual trigger traction on its final stage. However, these safeties may be found on other products and Glock' concept for them is rather different; Main passive safety of Glock is “Drop Safety” and it comes from pistol's nature since a sear integrated with trigger bar counts overweighted as compared to the parts made sear alone and is highly subject to outside impact's to give an accidental discharge. Therefore, a passive safety for mentioned part is nearly compulsory. Glock's response for stated need is “Safety Ramp” on which the trigger bar/sear to rest on until manual trigger traction. This ramp is a part of polimer disconnector/ejector housing.The backwardly forcing trigger spring facilitates sear movement during rearwardly slide travel without trigger pull. Other two passive safeties seem rather afterconstructed on Glock' lay out ,and the aim for trigger related one is to prevent the accidental discharges to be occured by unwanted frictions to trigger and inertia of trigger bar creating a kinetic weight to the sear-striker connection by accidental drops. The third passive safety for firing pin or striker carries quite different aim than standart ones since provided thereon for accidental discharges occurable by unintential slide separation since guide rails for the same are located as injected within the polimer frame. Standart firing pin passive safeties are designed for separate firing pins to prevent discharges caused by outside strikes on mainly hammer impact guns on either hammer cocked or uncocked modes and since a striker impact gun carries a live round in the chamber as on its cocked mode only,providing a passive safety working on uncocked mode is really nounsence..Some other pistols having steel to steel engagement of slide rails and slideand may not have a striker passive safety. On the other hand ,the handguns having precocked or cocked mode must have an automatic drop safety preventing unintentionaly sear going out of engagement with impact element and only a firing pin safety as named for said purpose is not enough since the real drop safety should prevent not only a discharge but disengagement of the sear-impact element to maintain the possible firing actuatable only by the trigger movement without need a new cocking action.Therefore single action pistols without a real drop safety are real compromises. There were old autoloding pistols like Le Francais, Vz36, Vz38, Vz45 having real DAO features with trigger bars integrated with sear, but in a pistol having an impact element remaining cocked or semicocked mode during slide cycling there was never such a part of single piece trigger bar and sear combination until Glock. The use of a sear integrated with trigger bar brings some different kind of disconnector systems and sidewardly acting one is one of the most simple and wise solutions.But mentioned different part type seems rather overtolerance needed as causing accidental discharges without the breechbolt reaching full battery position. Positive disconnectors in production pistols have mainly two kind of levers for said purpose; sliding, like Browning HP and Luger, and camming like others ,and both of them needs some minimum amount of cachtching clearance being not small of 2mm and especially cammed versions found most of autoloaders said clearance is equal to the height of camming piece and counts more than said tolerances and cammed type Glock is not an exception. Therefore there is no pistol such a zero tolerance for reaching battery on position and besides, Glock has the advantage of striker firing system reaching dischargeable power, only on fully closed mode. All these mentioned features bring the Glock near to “Perfection”but do they retain it on all over the life. Users manual of Glock especially points out two “ should be avoided actions” as directable to trigger and striker safety by means of which the warranty would be gone off..., Since trigger is constrantly forced backwards by its spring and trigger automatic safety can catch it on forwardly position by a manual push without slide action, retraction of slide causes striker leg to rideover the sear over the polimer safety ramp and dents there as ruining the drop safety and repeated slide trackings on this mode deepen the dent and polimer striker sleeve as well, and on firing, dented safety ramp can not prevent inertial impacts of slide causing sear and striker disconnection, and striker forcefully strikes the striker safety body as hammering it and eventually causing the same as hanging upwards on its recess to give free striker pass during firing or an outside impact as causing slamfire or accidental fire. Mentioned defects can be detected during periodical take downs and ruined parts can be changed if pistol is in a location where the required parts being available but in other case ,the neared perfection of pistol is on danger. Most of unaddressed Glock accidents should be caused by mentioned kind of misusing. Stretch type coil spring used for the trigger, somewhatly weakens the “ near to perfection” feature of Glock by cause of its engagement coils being fragile during long range using but the construction of pistol can manage to continue the firing as keeping the trigger pressed during slide cycling should a trigger spring breakage occurs. The meaning of fewer parts is stronger construction and ,durability especialy against accidental impacts since the more of the parts and their inertia during an impact, the much more of unintented strikes and rebounds within the handgun to give unimaginable results... Glock, really nears to perfection on mentioned department. Polimer material can be thought as weak and inferior to steel or alloy versions for frames especially on polimer sensitive, heat, solvent environments, or on impacts but, if thought, most of steel framed types, carrying polimer grip plates hiding vital parts thereunder with even weaker than frame polimer composition material, to go to make the pistol unusable within the same conditions, the superiority of metal frames.would really be questionable. You may not love or like polimer handguns for their quick made appearance but,with existing tempo of gunmanufacturing, gunlovers of a few decades after will look at Glock, as a sample of “Masterpiece”. Best regards

June 2, 2009, 10:23 AM	#5
CortJestir Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2008 Location: Southern CT Posts: 1,406	This kool-aid tastes kinda funny... :barf: Welcome to TFL! __________________ "They have men amongst them who know very well what they are about..." - Lord Hugh Percy, on the events of April 19, 1775 Do you know what you're about? Find out at an Appleseed near you.

June 2, 2009, 10:25 AM	#6
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Wow.... seriously dude, I'm a fan of the Glock design but, really, lay off the Kool-Aid. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

June 2, 2009, 10:29 AM	#7
txstang84 Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2009 Location: The Lone Star State Posts: 636	And yet... ...people still buy other "inferior" types of firearms...tsk tsk. Welcome to TFL konuk. __________________ The best defense is a good offense

June 2, 2009, 09:11 PM	#12
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	Can`t top that one Zilmo. Welcome to TFL konuk! Do you own any other brands of guns?

June 2, 2009, 07:22 AM	#2
J.Netto Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2009 Location: Elizabethtown, KY Posts: 713	Well......Thanks for that I guess. I'm just messing with ya, welcome to TFL!

June 2, 2009, 09:48 AM	#3
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	www.thegunzone.com/glock/problems.html I thought I'd mess with you, too.

June 2, 2009, 10:17 AM	#4
RT Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2000 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 2,194	Welcome. Cliffs notes, please "Polymer"

June 2, 2009, 10:41 AM	#8
Alleykat Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2007 Posts: 3,668	I like my Glocks, but that gave me a headache!

June 2, 2009, 02:33 PM	#9
LUPUS Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2007 Posts: 463	A good kool-aid write up... And an other welcome to the TFL. Regards.

June 2, 2009, 02:39 PM	#10
Zilmo Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2009 Location: At home. Posts: 369	Sorry man, my ADD kicked in and I couldn't read that whole thing.

June 2, 2009, 10:50 PM	#14
supergas452M Junior member Join Date: December 7, 2008 Location: New Mexico Posts: 309	Amazingly inferior first post on TFL, I cannot say with any sincerity that I will be looking forward to any future ones.:barf:

June 2, 2009, 10:59 PM	#15
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	I'm sorry, konuk, but this one has to be locked down. Your post is extremely hard to read and understand. The negative posts are only going to continue, so locking it will at least prevent that. I realize that English is most likely not your native language (Turkey?), but English is the de facto language of this board. If you want to try for a better translation, please do.