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Old July 13, 2009, 07:04 PM   #1
telcomfaust
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Belen New Mexico - Man Follows Burglars, Kills One During 911 Call

Not sure when this case happened, but it was just posted on an Emergency Dispatch website I frequent.

How do you feel about the shooting? Im guessing the State will argue he should have followed at a greater distance and kept updating the PD untill they arrived onscene.


As an Emergency Dispatcher, when people ask if they should follow a suspect, I always say if they can do so at a safe distance, and I also tell them not to speed or go through any stop signs or stop lights. I have not had any callers following a burglary suspect, only reported DWI/DUI drivers.

http://www.911dispatch.com/db/index....=2609&Itemid=1


Man Follows Burglars, Kills One During 911 Call
Monday, July 13 2009
A witness to the burglary of a propane company in Belen (NM) followed the suspects' vehicle and dialed 911 for help. But during the call the suspects pulled over, and the witness says he was forced to shoot and kill the suspect who came up and broke out his window. The Valencia County district attorney has charged Luke Sanchez with murder, although it's not clear if he'll stand trial, the DA added. Sanchez's attorney claimed the Valencia County dispatcher told Sanchez to follow the suspects, although a review of the logging tape does not confirm that. During the 5-minute call, a radio dispatcher apparently picked up the ringing 911 call to hear Sanchez report a "robbery," and then asked him questions. At one point the female dispatcher asked co-workers to take over her radio channel, and she was continuously updating other dispatchers on the details she obtained from Sanchez. Listen to the entire 911 call here, determine what information the dispatcher did and did not obtain, and consider how you would handle a similar call.
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Old July 13, 2009, 07:12 PM   #2
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Old July 13, 2009, 07:38 PM   #3
Evan Thomas
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Here's a bit more information:
From the Valencia County News Bulletin:
Sanchez told investigators he saw a vehicle parked near the building and two individuals "doing something." He said he drove by the business and stopped to talk with a neighbor. While doing so, Sanchez said he saw the two individuals get into the vehicle and leave the business.

According to the complaint, Sanchez followed the vehicle and called 911. He followed the vehicle for a short distance, trying to get a license plate number for the 911 operator.

When Sanchez turned east onto Gabaldon Road, about a block north of the propane business, he says the vehicle stopped and two men approached his car. Sanchez told deputies he believed the men had something in their hands but could not tell what it was.

Sanchez said he tried to roll up his driver's side window and put his vehicle in reverse. It was then that Sanchez said Gabaldon broke his window with an unknown object and struck him repeatedly in the face, trying to pull him from his vehicle.

Sanchez said he was in fear for his life and reached for the gun he had on the seat. Sanchez said he fired the handgun and the man fell to the ground; he said he was still on his cell phone with the 911 operator during the incident, the complaint says.
According to this article, Mr. Sanchez is now out on bond.

Perhaps the DA will argue he provoked the suspects by following them?

Apart from that possibility, it sounds a lot like self-defense, based on what's been reported... Perhaps Mr. Sanchez would have been wiser to keep his distance, but unless it comes out that he was driving really aggressively, trying to run the alleged burglars off the road or some such, I'd say following and trying to get a license number while on the phone to 911 sounds like being a good citizen, pretty much. (Of course there's the whole talking-while-driving thing, but in the circumstances, I'd give him a pass on that. )
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Old July 13, 2009, 07:49 PM   #4
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Wow, a murder charge for this one? He was on the phone with police trying to get a tag number of a suspect's vehicle when said suspect broke his window and started beating him... looks like obvious self defense to me.
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Old July 14, 2009, 07:09 AM   #5
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Okay, folks, I just deleted one "good shoot" mini-rant.

TFL is aout responsible firearms ownership and this article does seem to be in that area of interest. We've had several of these news articles brought here lately and they all devolve into what the poster would do, not the details of the incident. Those who stay on topic struggle against the wave of peacocks and chest thumpers.

Sooo, fair warning up front. If you come here with nothing to contribute except to amaze us with how brave and tough you would have been in that situation, your post is gonna disappear as soon as a mod sees it.
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Old July 14, 2009, 10:35 AM   #6
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Tough set of circumstances, I need more facts myself.

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Old July 14, 2009, 10:44 AM   #7
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Hm, that is a bit awkward isn't it.... probably completely legal, probably shouldn't have followed them, probably shouldn't have stopped so close, probably should have driven away when the thief approached...but.... Mr. Deadguy definately shouldn't have robbed the place, probably shouldn't have stopped, probably shouldn't have confronted the 911er, and definately shouldn't have broken his window....
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Old July 14, 2009, 10:58 AM   #8
Evan Thomas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildalaska
Tough set of circumstances, I need more facts myself.
Don't we always...

It did occur to me last night that there might be some sort of case to be made, based on parity of force -- Mr. Sanchez is an ex-Marine, and if the suspect had been hitting him with his fist, perhaps shooting him could be construed as an unjustified use of deadly force. But... jeez.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peetzakilla
probably should have driven away when the thief approached...
According to the report I read, he tried to:
Sanchez said he tried to roll up his driver's side window and put his vehicle in reverse.

Jeez, again.
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Last edited by Evan Thomas; July 14, 2009 at 11:15 AM.
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Old July 14, 2009, 11:08 AM   #9
Brian Pfleuger
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Indeed. If the report is accurate, that he had "an unknown object" and tried to "pull him from his car" then I think this one is a slam dunk for being justified.

Why he ever let the guy get close enough to break his window is another question, and may have been poor judgement, but it wouldn't make the shooting unjustified.
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Old July 14, 2009, 11:28 AM   #10
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Quote:
If the report is accurate, that he had "an unknown object" and tried to "pull him from his car" then I think this one is a slam dunk for being justified.
You'd think... and you'd think the one charged with murder would be the second suspect -- "during the commission of a felony," isn't it?

So much for being a good citizen, and all that.

I wonder -- would Mr. Sanchez have done what he did, following the car and trying to get the plate number, if he hadn't been armed? OK, I know we can't answer this, but I'm really asking, would any of us (non-chest-thumping types) have done so? And if so, are there precautions which would make it relatively safe, other than not getting so close?
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Old July 14, 2009, 11:58 AM   #11
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Quote:
I'm really asking, would any of us (non-chest-thumping types) have done so? And if so, are there precautions which would make it relatively safe, other than not getting so close?
I would not follow someone who had committed a "real" crime. I have followed people I suspected of DWI while I waited for LE to catch up, but I consider that to be entirely different.

There can be no way of knowing how it could be safe. If you're close enough to follow then you're close enough to get shot.
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Old July 14, 2009, 12:13 PM   #12
Evan Thomas
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Quote:
I would not follow someone who had committed a "real" crime.
I wouldn't either, armed or not... but I can imagine someone deciding to be that good citizen, and thinking, "Well, I'm carrying, so I can defend myself if it goes bad."
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Old July 14, 2009, 03:50 PM   #13
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Hank Hill moved to New Mexico?
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Old November 17, 2009, 01:31 AM   #14
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Jury Instructions

I was getting my self familiar with Use of force, home defense laws here in California. A great place to know what thee laws are is your states attorney jury instructions. I downloaded a 7mb pdf that explained in detail what the rules are for justifiable homicide, citizens arrests (using deadly force if needed) and anything else you would want to know. Each instruction cites case law, so you can look them up if you want. They each state in detail when the use of force is justified, pursuing felons (and using deadly force). Now this is for Criminal law, you may still have to deal with Civil law (you know, the bad guys sues you for shooting them).
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Old November 17, 2009, 03:45 AM   #15
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Old November 17, 2009, 05:37 AM   #16
telcomfaust
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im at a loss for words
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Old November 17, 2009, 05:49 AM   #17
Bud Helms
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OrangeJo,

Your first post here is a resurrection of a four month old discussion that has petered out.

If you have something you wish to share, and it seems you do, why don't you start your own discussion, Just hit that button and have at it.

This one is closed.
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