Good Lord...What happened to Sig Sauer?

ranger470 · July 15, 2009, 01:57 PM

I've been carrying a Sig Sauer duty weapon since 1990 and the last new Sig I bought was in 1999. It was a P226 40 cal.

This year I decided I wanted to trade her in on a new Sig Sauer P220 45cal so the local gun dealer orders me one and it came in today.

My heavens what has happen to the quality of Sig pistols? The grips are poor fitting, the plastic recoil spring guide rod and ONLY ONE MAGAZINE included. These Sigs aren't like the old Sigs that is for sure. They look like one of those cheap 9mm (the name brand escapes me at the moment) they I used to encounter on the streets.

I have long been a devoted Sig Sauer fan but this will be the last Sig Sauer that I ever purchased.

Oh one more thing....That did include a Sig Sauer sticker in place of the spare magazine.....What a deal!!!!!!!

Wildalaska · July 15, 2009, 02:07 PM

Thats funny, most of the folks who are buying SIGs are saying that the quality has improved....

WildbutheyymmvAlaska ™

amd6547 · July 15, 2009, 02:12 PM

Not on the Sig forum, where there are many threads complaining about Sig quality...Most of the Sig fans prefer the older German-made Sigs.

MontyCop05 · July 15, 2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

They look like one of those cheap 9mm (the name brand escapes me at the moment) they I used to encounter on the streets.

Lorcin perhaps? :barf:

Steve1911 · July 15, 2009, 02:20 PM

Quote:

My heavens what has happen to the quality of Sig pistols? The grips are poor fitting, the plastic recoil spring guide rod and ONLY ONE MAGAZINE included.

What do you mean by poor fitting?

The "plastic recoil guide rod" you speak of is made of a high grade nylon polymer that probably outlast most peoples owning of their pistols, and in most cases, is intregal to the design of the gun. Since metal doesn't flex as well as "plastic".

This seems to be the same argument as the polymer vs. steel frame...

One magazine is what happens when manufacturing can not keep up with demand. When demand for pistols is low, you can put 2-3 mags in and not run out... If it is extremely high... you can not... since some people would get 2 and some would get none, and wouldn't that suck...

So are you just mad because you only got one mag? Or you like the metal guide rod better? Or what?

I am not trying to be a jerk... just curious. Because the few that I have bought in the past year have been fine. Yeah they only came with one mag... You can always buy another couple mags.

chrisbfd · July 15, 2009, 02:22 PM

Not to cause a fuss, but I am choosing between a p229 and glock 19. I am very happy with other glocks I own. Really I am looking for a range gun with Da/Sa. I don't mind spending $ for quality, but I hate getting ripped off. Any suggestions.
Thanks

CortJestir · July 15, 2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Oh one more thing....That did include a Sig Sauer sticker in place of the spare magazine.....What a deal!!!!!!!

Aren't SIGs shipping with two mags again? Maybe you got new old stock?

MHbushmaster · July 15, 2009, 02:31 PM

I just picked up a great condition USED Sig P226 in 9mm, West German made. Came with 2 preban hi cap mags.

I've got no complaints about QC

Just an FYI, SigArms has heard the complaints about the 1 mag per gun issue and has now started shipping new sigs with 2 mags again. Asketh and you shalt receiveth....

Steve1911 · July 15, 2009, 02:33 PM

chrisbfd,

Look at the gun before you buy it... if the sig doesn't look up to your standards, don't buy it. But if you get one like the ones I buy, you will love it...

comn-cents · July 15, 2009, 02:36 PM

chrisbfd
Nothing wrong with a Sig.
I own a few and my last 2 are a p226 blackwater & a used p250.
Quality is as good as always.

predecessor · July 15, 2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Not to cause a fuss, but I am choosing between a p229 and glock 19. I am very happy with other glocks I own.

Not sure how to advise. If it were me, and I already owned a Glock, I would opt for another make of pistol because variety is the spice of life. But if I was a Glock Disciple, I would go with another Glock. The tactical advantage to that is you already know the manual of arms, are used to the odd grip angle, and already familiar with the trigger.

Either is a good choice.

Wildalaska · July 15, 2009, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Not on the Sig forum, where there are many threads complaining about Sig quality....

Well there is a source of wisdom

WildwhateverAlaska ™

N.H. Yankee · July 15, 2009, 03:01 PM

My local dealer usually has between 10-15 NEW sigs on the shelf, the last few month's they were lucky to have 4. Well in the last 2 weeks they are back to normal, 2 shelves full of Sigs mostly new. I was looking at the P250, and P226 sigs and the quality and fit looks just as good as my older W.German Sigs and newer sigs.

I would shoot the gun, if your happy with the performance then I would contact Sig and have them resolve the issues. Companies are back logged, many people have been waiting month's for their free extra magazines from S&W for the M&P series pistol. Sig has stated to my knowledge when things get back to normal guns will be shipped with 2 magazines. Your gun dealer should have known that and informed you before the sale. This has been pretty common knowledge.

ranger470 · July 15, 2009, 03:44 PM

Thanks MontyCop05....LORCIN was the word I couldn't think of.

Gentlemen I have been as devoted a Sig Sauer fan than you could ever imagine I truly hate to see what has become of them. NOBODY who has carried, handled and shot a Sig pistol for almost twenty years, as I have, can honestly tell me that Sig's quality has gone up!!!!

Unfortunately they didn't have a new P220 for me to look at. They had to order one. You tell me that is good business practice to have the attitude...Well you might get one magazine or you might get two...it just depends on how we feel today.

This one that I got today here are some of the flaws....

There is about 1/16" gap in the rear of grips where they meet.
The grip screws do not set flush in the screw holes.
You have to practically sit on the slide release to get the get the slide to drop forward.
The metal finish feels like sandpaper.
As I stated earlier....plastic recoil spring rod and only one magazine.

Now I haven't shot it yet but hopefully it will live up to Sig standards in at least that catagory.

To the gentleman who was trying to decide to go P229 or Glock......go Glock as I wish I had purchased the Glock 21 instead. I am not a fan of plastic pistols and that is one of the reasons that I wanted to stick with Sig but it is only a metal pistol...technically speaking of course.

comn-cents · July 15, 2009, 03:49 PM

send it back if it's not up to your standards.

ranger470 · July 15, 2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Yeah they only came with one mag... You can always buy another couple mags.

Yeah Steve you can always buy extra magazine but at 35.00 a pop that gets expensive when you just paid over 800.00 for a pistol.

Maybe care dealers should adopt that idea.....you only get three tires....heck you can buy a fourth tire for a few extra dollars.

Mr. James · July 15, 2009, 03:57 PM

Only have one Sig, a 226, and I'm quite happy with it, but I'll tell you this for nothin': if I paid $800 for a pistol that came with the catalogue of failings you just cited, I'd send it back. It will happen that a lemon will slip out the factory gates, no matter whose gates they may be. But that doesn't mean you have to give that piece of . . . citrus . . . a home.

Steve1911 · July 15, 2009, 03:58 PM

What kind of crack are you smoking that makes you think that a Lorcin looks anything like a sig 220?

Sig P220

Lorcin 9mm

Not seeing the resemblance…

Also just a note... I am not calling you a liar, but if you have carried a sig, you should know that a new sig with new springs are usually hard to release the slide release. But they get better with time.

As far as the 1/16th misalignment... did you really get the ruler out and measure it? Would a 32th be better?

To me it sounds like you did an impulse buy and now you are mad. Just my Opinion.

Suwannee Tim · July 15, 2009, 04:02 PM

I've bought a P226, a P226 22 converter, a P229 and a P245 (made in Germany) in the last few months, the grips fit tighter than Dicks' hatband, all had two mags and the overall fit and finish is as good as I have ever seen on a production pistol.

Send the danged thing back to SIG, make them fix it. Gripe about the magazine, ask for another, worst thing they can do is say no.

As far as the magazines, SIG does not make magazines, they buy them from Mec Gar. Tell me this, if you had a thousand finished pistols and a thousand magazines, would you ship 500 pistols with two mags or 1000 pistols with one mag and knock a bit off the wholesale price? Or not? I'd have been disappointed with one mag but I would get over it. Seems like more often than not you get less than you bargained for, at least with me. But I did buy an FNP45 a couple of days ago and it had 3!, 3!!, count them, 3!!! magazines which is good as mags for that beast cost $50+.

Steve1911 · July 15, 2009, 04:05 PM

Ranger,

Would you post a picture of this grip issue, and the screw issue too? Would like to actually see what you are talking about...

comn-cents · July 15, 2009, 04:07 PM

Word on the street is if you call and complain about 1 mag to Sig they will send you another mag. Just what I'm hearing.

ranger470 · July 15, 2009, 04:22 PM

Steve1911 I am going to address you this one time and it is the last time I will acknowledge your presence so read closely.:barf:

I did not post what I posted as a personal attack to anyone on this forum and nor have I insulted anyone!!! If you are related to the family or if you are an employee of Sig then I apologize if I have insulted you PERSONALLY by saying what I have said about a PRODUCT that I purchased.

As far as me being familiar with Sig....Do you remember when they were sold in gray cardboard boxes and shipped with a target that showed you the accuracy of your pistol? I do!! My P226 9mm arrived with one of those and in one of those boxes.

Do you remember Sig Quarterly magazine? I do and I received it until they stopped sending it.

Do you remember when the P229 first came out? I do I bought one!!!

Do you remember when the P226 in 40 cal came out? I do...I bought one!!!

So stop acting like YOU have been PERSONALLY insulted by what I have said about the P220 that I just purchased and we will be happy to include you in this ADULT conversation.

ranger470 · July 15, 2009, 04:23 PM

Oh Steve1911...one last thing.....I was being sarcastic when I said it reminded me of a Lorcin....I really didn't think that I would have to explain that to anyone.

litework · July 15, 2009, 04:53 PM

I've been shooting Sigs for a not quite 20 years. My dad currently has an older Sig 229 and I currently have a newer Sig 229 Elite. I just don't see the drop in quality you describe. The fit and especially the finish is much better on my example. My gun also came with two magazines. Sorry you got a bad one, but I can't agree with your blanket argument. Maybe you could contact Sig and talk to them about the problem. It sucks when you get a gun that fails to meet your expectations.

got_the_itch · July 15, 2009, 04:53 PM

I'm a owner of the newer SIG's - P229 and SIG Pro 2022. Not an issue 1 on either of these. I actually prefer the cheaper of the 2 in the SIG Pro. The trigger seems much better for me. Yet all I heard about them when they came out was how bad they are. Now look at the reviews they are getting. Most who own them rave about them. The only problem I'm having is it seems to be a low shooter. Also after alot of reading that is the type of sight system it has (combat). Not sure how much truth there is behind that.

But what I'm trying to say here is.... if your not happy with a Newer SIG. Your probably not gonna be happy with a "newer" anything. Perhaps find something used that is more from the era of your liking.

Edit: BTW, if calling and pitching a fit with SIG doesn't get you another mag. You could try this link. It's about 40% discount to the cost of what SIG wants for their mags.

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/sigsauer.html

July 15, 2009, 01:57 PM	#1
ranger470 Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: Midwest USA Posts: 42	Good Lord...What happened to Sig Sauer? I've been carrying a Sig Sauer duty weapon since 1990 and the last new Sig I bought was in 1999. It was a P226 40 cal. This year I decided I wanted to trade her in on a new Sig Sauer P220 45cal so the local gun dealer orders me one and it came in today. My heavens what has happen to the quality of Sig pistols? The grips are poor fitting, the plastic recoil spring guide rod and ONLY ONE MAGAZINE included. These Sigs aren't like the old Sigs that is for sure. They look like one of those cheap 9mm (the name brand escapes me at the moment) they I used to encounter on the streets. I have long been a devoted Sig Sauer fan but this will be the last Sig Sauer that I ever purchased. Oh one more thing....That did include a Sig Sauer sticker in place of the spare magazine.....What a deal!!!!!!! __________________ "My ultimate faith is in GOD, but my back-up is John Moses Browning!"

July 15, 2009, 02:12 PM	#3
amd6547 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 2,313	Not on the Sig forum, where there are many threads complaining about Sig quality...Most of the Sig fans prefer the older German-made Sigs. __________________ The past is gone...the future may never happen. Be Here Now.

July 15, 2009, 02:22 PM	#6
chrisbfd Junior Member Join Date: May 18, 2009 Posts: 12	Glock then...? Not to cause a fuss, but I am choosing between a p229 and glock 19. I am very happy with other glocks I own. Really I am looking for a range gun with Da/Sa. I don't mind spending $ for quality, but I hate getting ripped off. Any suggestions. Thanks

July 15, 2009, 02:36 PM	#10
comn-cents Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2008 Location: Pac.N.W. Posts: 1,804	*chrisbfd* Nothing wrong with a Sig. I own a few and my last 2 are a p226 blackwater & a used p250. Quality is as good as always. __________________ Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!

July 15, 2009, 03:01 PM	#13
N.H. Yankee Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2004 Location: Rural N.H. Posts: 1,586	My local dealer usually has between 10-15 NEW sigs on the shelf, the last few month's they were lucky to have 4. Well in the last 2 weeks they are back to normal, 2 shelves full of Sigs mostly new. I was looking at the P250, and P226 sigs and the quality and fit looks just as good as my older W.German Sigs and newer sigs. I would shoot the gun, if your happy with the performance then I would contact Sig and have them resolve the issues. Companies are back logged, many people have been waiting month's for their free extra magazines from S&W for the M&P series pistol. Sig has stated to my knowledge when things get back to normal guns will be shipped with 2 magazines. Your gun dealer should have known that and informed you before the sale. This has been pretty common knowledge. __________________ The real danger to America is not abroad but within.. Having an open mind is a good thing, but not so open that your brains fall out! Save America, abort liberalism.

July 15, 2009, 02:07 PM	#2
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	Thats funny, most of the folks who are buying SIGs are saying that the quality has improved.... WildbutheyymmvAlaska ™

July 15, 2009, 02:31 PM	#8
MHbushmaster Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2007 Location: near Rochester, NY Posts: 116	I just picked up a great condition USED Sig P226 in 9mm, West German made. Came with 2 preban hi cap mags. I've got no complaints about QC Just an FYI, SigArms has heard the complaints about the 1 mag per gun issue and has now started shipping new sigs with 2 mags again. Asketh and you shalt receiveth....

July 15, 2009, 02:33 PM	#9
Steve1911 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2009 Posts: 431	chrisbfd, Look at the gun before you buy it... if the sig doesn't look up to your standards, don't buy it. But if you get one like the ones I buy, you will love it...

July 15, 2009, 03:44 PM	#14
ranger470 Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: Midwest USA Posts: 42	Thanks MontyCop05....LORCIN was the word I couldn't think of. Gentlemen I have been as devoted a Sig Sauer fan than you could ever imagine I truly hate to see what has become of them. NOBODY who has carried, handled and shot a Sig pistol for almost twenty years, as I have, can honestly tell me that Sig's quality has gone up!!!! Unfortunately they didn't have a new P220 for me to look at. They had to order one. You tell me that is good business practice to have the attitude...Well you might get one magazine or you might get two...it just depends on how we feel today. This one that I got today here are some of the flaws.... There is about 1/16" gap in the rear of grips where they meet. The grip screws do not set flush in the screw holes. You have to practically sit on the slide release to get the get the slide to drop forward. The metal finish feels like sandpaper. As I stated earlier....plastic recoil spring rod and only one magazine. Now I haven't shot it yet but hopefully it will live up to Sig standards in at least that catagory. To the gentleman who was trying to decide to go P229 or Glock......go Glock as I wish I had purchased the Glock 21 instead. I am not a fan of plastic pistols and that is one of the reasons that I wanted to stick with Sig but it is only a metal pistol...technically speaking of course. __________________ "My ultimate faith is in GOD, but my back-up is John Moses Browning!"

July 15, 2009, 03:49 PM	#15
comn-cents Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2008 Location: Pac.N.W. Posts: 1,804	send it back if it's not up to your standards. __________________ Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!

July 15, 2009, 03:57 PM	#17
Mr. James Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2001 Location: The Old Dominion Posts: 1,521	Only have one Sig, a 226, and I'm quite happy with it, but I'll tell you this for nothin': if I paid $800 for a pistol that came with the catalogue of failings you just cited, I'd send it back. It will happen that a lemon will slip out the factory gates, no matter whose gates they may be. But that doesn't mean you have to give that piece of . . . citrus . . . a home. __________________ "...A humble and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Ps. li "When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law." —Frederic Bastiat

July 15, 2009, 03:58 PM	#18
Steve1911 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2009 Posts: 431	What kind of crack are you smoking that makes you think that a Lorcin looks anything like a sig 220? Sig P220 Lorcin 9mm Not seeing the resemblance… Also just a note... I am not calling you a liar, but if you have carried a sig, you should know that a new sig with new springs are usually hard to release the slide release. But they get better with time. As far as the 1/16th misalignment... did you really get the ruler out and measure it? Would a 32th be better? To me it sounds like you did an impulse buy and now you are mad. Just my Opinion.

July 15, 2009, 04:02 PM	#19
Suwannee Tim Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2009 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 320	I've bought a P226, a P226 22 converter, a P229 and a P245 (made in Germany) in the last few months, the grips fit tighter than Dicks' hatband, all had two mags and the overall fit and finish is as good as I have ever seen on a production pistol. Send the danged thing back to SIG, make them fix it. Gripe about the magazine, ask for another, worst thing they can do is say no. As far as the magazines, SIG does not make magazines, they buy them from Mec Gar. Tell me this, if you had a thousand finished pistols and a thousand magazines, would you ship 500 pistols with two mags or 1000 pistols with one mag and knock a bit off the wholesale price? Or not? I'd have been disappointed with one mag but I would get over it. Seems like more often than not you get less than you bargained for, at least with me. But I did buy an FNP45 a couple of days ago and it had 3!, 3!!, count them, 3!!! magazines which is good as mags for that beast cost $50+. Last edited by Suwannee Tim; July 15, 2009 at 04:13 PM.

July 15, 2009, 04:05 PM	#20
Steve1911 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2009 Posts: 431	Ranger, Would you post a picture of this grip issue, and the screw issue too? Would like to actually see what you are talking about...

July 15, 2009, 04:07 PM	#21
comn-cents Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2008 Location: Pac.N.W. Posts: 1,804	Word on the street is if you call and complain about 1 mag to Sig they will send you another mag. Just what I'm hearing. __________________ Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!

July 15, 2009, 04:22 PM	#22
ranger470 Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: Midwest USA Posts: 42	Steve1911 I am going to address you this one time and it is the last time I will acknowledge your presence so read closely.:barf: I did not post what I posted as a personal attack to anyone on this forum and nor have I insulted anyone!!! If you are related to the family or if you are an employee of Sig then I apologize if I have insulted you PERSONALLY by saying what I have said about a PRODUCT that I purchased. As far as me being familiar with Sig....Do you remember when they were sold in gray cardboard boxes and shipped with a target that showed you the accuracy of your pistol? I do!! My P226 9mm arrived with one of those and in one of those boxes. Do you remember Sig Quarterly magazine? I do and I received it until they stopped sending it. Do you remember when the P229 first came out? I do I bought one!!! Do you remember when the P226 in 40 cal came out? I do...I bought one!!! So stop acting like YOU have been PERSONALLY insulted by what I have said about the P220 that I just purchased and we will be happy to include you in this ADULT conversation. __________________ "My ultimate faith is in GOD, but my back-up is John Moses Browning!"

July 15, 2009, 04:23 PM	#23
ranger470 Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: Midwest USA Posts: 42	Oh Steve1911...one last thing.....I was being sarcastic when I said it reminded me of a Lorcin....I really didn't think that I would have to explain that to anyone. __________________ "My ultimate faith is in GOD, but my back-up is John Moses Browning!"

July 15, 2009, 04:53 PM	#24
litework Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2001 Location: Culpeper, Va. Posts: 413	I've been shooting Sigs for a not quite 20 years. My dad currently has an older Sig 229 and I currently have a newer Sig 229 Elite. I just don't see the drop in quality you describe. The fit and especially the finish is much better on my example. My gun also came with two magazines. Sorry you got a bad one, but I can't agree with your blanket argument. Maybe you could contact Sig and talk to them about the problem. It sucks when you get a gun that fails to meet your expectations.

July 15, 2009, 04:53 PM	#25
got_the_itch Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2009 Location: Suburban Detroit Posts: 251	I'm a owner of the newer SIG's - P229 and SIG Pro 2022. Not an issue 1 on either of these. I actually prefer the cheaper of the 2 in the SIG Pro. The trigger seems much better for me. Yet all I heard about them when they came out was how bad they are. Now look at the reviews they are getting. Most who own them rave about them. The only problem I'm having is it seems to be a low shooter. Also after alot of reading that is the type of sight system it has (combat). Not sure how much truth there is behind that. But what I'm trying to say here is.... if your not happy with a Newer SIG. Your probably not gonna be happy with a "newer" anything. Perhaps find something used that is more from the era of your liking. Edit: BTW, if calling and pitching a fit with SIG doesn't get you another mag. You could try this link. It's about 40% discount to the cost of what SIG wants for their mags. http://www.cdnninvestments.com/sigsauer.html __________________ My Sig .vs Your Glock Ok.... fair assessment. But mines pretty! Last edited by got_the_itch; July 15, 2009 at 04:59 PM.