Can you ID this round?

3 gun · July 16, 2009, 10:12 PM

Not sure if this is the right place so if it must be moved sorry.

Found this round in a can of surplus 9mm. Headstamp is IMI. The red cap is plastic. The case is brass and the overall weight is in the normal range for a complete 9mm round. The rest is told better by the pictures. Any ideas on the what and why? Thanks

Falcon5NZ · July 16, 2009, 11:33 PM

Well IMI is Israel Military Industries, Tel Aviv, Israel.

Beyond that...Some kind of HP?
Try posting on the IAA forum.

LordofWar · July 17, 2009, 01:52 AM

Either it's a rubber bullet or some kind of a polymer based frangile round.

Superhouse 15 · July 17, 2009, 12:38 PM

The tip of the metal projectile looks like an armor piercing round like the THV.
ap rounds

Perhaps an AP round with a poly tip to help with feed reliability?

oldkim · July 17, 2009, 12:55 PM

I'm curious. Have you shot it into water or some medium so you can pull the bullet out.

The Israelis are one bad*ss it wouldn't surprise me if it's some sabot armor piercing round for cars and such. They don't mess around do they.

Glenn E. Meyer · July 17, 2009, 01:05 PM

It's a lipstick - sorry - couldn't resist. Don't say bad words that make * appear!

Paul B. · July 18, 2009, 03:04 PM

The bullet with the cap removed looks like either pure lead or a lead alloy. Methinks it's some kind of self defense load with a cap to insure proper feeding. Looks like it would make a nasty wound.
Paul B.

Donttreadonme · July 18, 2009, 03:20 PM

It's no help, but just an FYI the IMI 9mm with blue tips are incendiary rounds

NavyLT · July 20, 2009, 11:01 AM

It seems to be in Fig. 34 on this page:
http://cartridgecollectors.org/intro9mm/

but doesn't have a description.

Actually, there is a description,
Tres Haute Vitesse, South African.

I can't see the photos here at work, but that round might be on here:
http://www.cqbservices.com/?page_id=10

HeroHog · July 20, 2009, 12:08 PM

That bottom one looks like it!

Superhouse 15 · July 20, 2009, 04:13 PM

Tres Haute Vitesse is what THV stands for. Also reminds me of the BAT from Geco. It was a hollow bullet with a discarding plastic tip. Obsolete since the 1980s. That is what Fig 35 shows I believe. Still no perfect match, though. The world may never know....

jonnyc · July 20, 2009, 09:33 PM

"It's no help, but just an FYI the IMI 9mm with blue tips are incendiary rounds"

REALLY no help. Blue tip Israeli 9mm is subsonic.

The round in question is a South African commercial JHP round. The red part is a ballistic cap to aid feeding. I can't recall the trade name, but they were sold in the US a few years back, I believe in .45ACP and .38SPL also. They used whatever commercial cases they could get in RSA.
Just found the company...New Generation Ammunition. Should be an 80 grain bullet.

Falcon5NZ · July 20, 2009, 10:14 PM

3 gun I took the liberty of posting on IAA forum for you. Heres the thread. Thanks JonC.

Funeralfog · July 21, 2009, 02:54 AM

totally guessing but it might be some sort of concussion, or smoke doohickey

jonnyc · July 21, 2009, 08:21 AM

Huh???

3 gun · July 21, 2009, 09:16 PM

For those who didn't click on the link, this is New Generation Ammunition made in South Africa.

Technical Characteristics http://www.dansammo.com/nga.asp

* The bullet is produced as a solid copper slug which is nickel plated to reduce barrel friction.
* A plastic cap is mounted on the tip of the slug to ensure reliable feeding in selfloading firearms. In revolvers is facilitates fast insertion by hand or using speedloaders.
* The production process guarantees extremely low tolerances on the physical dimensions of the projectile. Uniformity in weight, diameter and ellipticity guarantees external ballistic performance. Groupings of 37mm at 25m was obtained from a fixed barrel in a laboratory environment.
* The unique shape of the Sentry has several properties that will ensure the following:
o No core-jacket separation when hitting either hard or soft targets.
o No ricochets even when hitting hard objects like windscreens at very sharp angles.
o Virtually 100% weight retention in tissue like media.
o Expansion to over 12mm (.50"). Characteristic for 9mm calibre
o Optimal wound ballistics
o Excellent transfer of energy

Thanks to Falcon5NZ for the post on IAA that led to what I believe is the correct answer.

Thanks for bursting my bubble, I had hoped I had some "Top Secret Depleted Cranium Core AP". That's funny I don't care who you are.

July 16, 2009, 11:33 PM	#2
Falcon5NZ Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2008 Location: Somewhere North of the Roaring 40's...Just Posts: 275	Well IMI is Israel Military Industries, Tel Aviv, Israel. Beyond that...Some kind of HP? Try posting on the IAA forum. __________________ It is New Zealand's role to send out its bright young men and women to help run the rest of the world. And they go, not hating the country of their birth, but loving it. From this loving base they make their mark on the world. Pro-1080 Poison and proud of it!!

July 17, 2009, 12:55 PM	#5
oldkim Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2008 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 462	have you shot it? I'm curious. Have you shot it into water or some medium so you can pull the bullet out. The Israelis are one bad*ss it wouldn't surprise me if it's some sabot armor piercing round for cars and such. They don't mess around do they. __________________ "Shoot Safetly, Shoot Often and Share Your Sport." Jim Scoutten, Shooting USA Check out my new website: www.shootonthemove.org

July 17, 2009, 01:05 PM	#6
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	It's a lipstick - sorry - couldn't resist. Don't say bad words that make * appear! __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

July 18, 2009, 03:04 PM	#7
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,800	The bullet with the cap removed looks like either pure lead or a lead alloy. Methinks it's some kind of self defense load with a cap to insure proper feeding. Looks like it would make a nasty wound. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

July 20, 2009, 12:08 PM	#10
HeroHog Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2008 Location: Shreveport, LA Posts: 486	That bottom one looks like it! __________________ Speedy AKA: Hero Hog, Dr. Speed, "That fat, old, balding, Grey-bearded gimpy guy" *I don't have NEAR enough ammo on hand. `Nuff said.*

July 17, 2009, 01:52 AM	#3
LordofWar Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2009 Location: Pakistan Posts: 646	Either it's a rubber bullet or some kind of a polymer based frangile round.

July 17, 2009, 12:38 PM	#4
Superhouse 15 Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2007 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 844	The tip of the metal projectile looks like an armor piercing round like the THV. ap rounds Perhaps an AP round with a poly tip to help with feed reliability?

July 18, 2009, 03:20 PM	#8
Donttreadonme Junior Member Join Date: July 16, 2009 Location: York County, PA Posts: 5	It's no help, but just an FYI the IMI 9mm with blue tips are incendiary rounds

July 20, 2009, 11:01 AM	#9
NavyLT Junior member Join Date: January 25, 2006 Location: Oak Harbor, WA Posts: 1,719	It seems to be in Fig. 34 on this page: http://cartridgecollectors.org/intro9mm/ but doesn't have a description. Actually, there is a description, Tres Haute Vitesse, South African. I can't see the photos here at work, but that round might be on here: http://www.cqbservices.com/?page_id=10

July 20, 2009, 04:13 PM	#11
Superhouse 15 Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2007 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 844	Tres Haute Vitesse is what THV stands for. Also reminds me of the BAT from Geco. It was a hollow bullet with a discarding plastic tip. Obsolete since the 1980s. That is what Fig 35 shows I believe. Still no perfect match, though. The world may never know....

July 20, 2009, 09:33 PM	#12
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	"It's no help, but just an FYI the IMI 9mm with blue tips are incendiary rounds" REALLY no help. Blue tip Israeli 9mm is subsonic. The round in question is a South African commercial JHP round. The red part is a ballistic cap to aid feeding. I can't recall the trade name, but they were sold in the US a few years back, I believe in .45ACP and .38SPL also. They used whatever commercial cases they could get in RSA. Just found the company...New Generation Ammunition. Should be an 80 grain bullet. Last edited by jonnyc; July 20, 2009 at 09:41 PM.

July 20, 2009, 10:14 PM	#13
Falcon5NZ Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2008 Location: Somewhere North of the Roaring 40's...Just Posts: 275	3 gun I took the liberty of posting on IAA forum for you. Heres the thread. Thanks JonC. __________________ It is New Zealand's role to send out its bright young men and women to help run the rest of the world. And they go, not hating the country of their birth, but loving it. From this loving base they make their mark on the world. Pro-1080 Poison and proud of it!!

July 21, 2009, 02:54 AM	#14
Funeralfog Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2009 Location: Camas Washington, USA Posts: 136	totally guessing but it might be some sort of concussion, or smoke doohickey

July 21, 2009, 08:21 AM	#15
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	Huh???

July 21, 2009, 09:16 PM	#16
3 gun Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: N41 24.283 W81 43.370 N.E.Ohio Posts: 561	For those who didn't click on the link, this is New Generation Ammunition made in South Africa. Technical Characteristics http://www.dansammo.com/nga.asp * The bullet is produced as a solid copper slug which is nickel plated to reduce barrel friction. * A plastic cap is mounted on the tip of the slug to ensure reliable feeding in selfloading firearms. In revolvers is facilitates fast insertion by hand or using speedloaders. * The production process guarantees extremely low tolerances on the physical dimensions of the projectile. Uniformity in weight, diameter and ellipticity guarantees external ballistic performance. Groupings of 37mm at 25m was obtained from a fixed barrel in a laboratory environment. * The unique shape of the Sentry has several properties that will ensure the following: o No core-jacket separation when hitting either hard or soft targets. o No ricochets even when hitting hard objects like windscreens at very sharp angles. o Virtually 100% weight retention in tissue like media. o Expansion to over 12mm (.50"). Characteristic for 9mm calibre o Optimal wound ballistics o Excellent transfer of energy Thanks to Falcon5NZ for the post on IAA that led to what I believe is the correct answer. Thanks for bursting my bubble, I had hoped I had some "Top Secret Depleted Cranium Core AP". That's funny I don't care who you are. __________________ Change you can believe in... Pre-65 US silver coins NRA RSO & Certified Instructor in rifle, pistol, shotgun. An unloaded pistol is a paperweight. Opportunity knocks..Trouble kicks down the door.

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