Tubular magazine that allows Spitzer bullets?

[IrvJr]

I was at my local range the other day shooting a Winchester lever action rifle. I was talking to a fellow next to me and he mentioned that one company (maybe Remington? he wasn't sure) had some tubular magazine that designed to allow the use of pointed bullets. It had some helical design or something like that which would have the cartridges aligned so that the tips were pointing off the main axis and not against the primer of the cartridge in front of the bullet.

has anyone else heard about this design? It sounds like a clever idea. I tried Google-ing for some more info but came up empty.

Thanks in advance.

[kraeloc]

I have often considered such possible designs myself, what with my fondness for leverguns and also my fondness for miltary and spitzer rounds.

I know there was the Winchester 1895, which used a non-detachable box magezine, and that could take spitzer bullets. Not what you're talking about, but interesting anyway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1895

I advise you to do some creative googling, maybe you can find something. I would, but I'm at work right now.

I would love an 1895..

[emcon5]

It is essentially a ballistic-tip design, but the tip is soft, designed for the 308/338 Marlin Express.

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firear...ss/default.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Marlin_Express

Looks like they are making ammo for the 30-30 that uses the same bullet.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=468031

[Old Grizz]

These are made by Hornady to be used in leverguns, all spitzer type points and very safe to use in a tube.






30-30 WIN 160 GR FTX LEVERevolution more info
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82730 20 $27.40




32 SPCL 165 GR FTX LEVERevolution more info
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308 MARLIN EXPRESS 160 GR FTX LEVERevolution more info
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357 MAG 140 GR FTX LEVERevolution more info
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92755 25 $26.07




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92792 20 $24.84

[IrvJr]

Thanks all for the replies.

We did about the Hornady polymer tipped bullets, but he also mentioned that there was some tubular design (an older design) that allowed you to use pointed bullets (not soft polymer ballistic tips but hard tipped) in the tubular mag. He said the mag would arrange each cartridge so that they would sit off axis so the tips wouldn't touch the primers.

Anyway, I think that it would be neat to have a compact (16") barrel pump action rifle that could chamber something like a .223 or some other intermediate cartridge and work with a tubular magazine (not a box mag).

[jmr40]

I think some of the early Remington pump rifles had mag tubes with a twist in the tube. I do not know if it helped keep the bullets points from contacting the primers or not. I think it is the Model 14. They were chambered for several rimless rounds of which only the 35 rem is popular today.

[tmd47762]

It doesn't sound like twisting the tube would be all that effective. To get enough twist to get a spitzer point to not hit the primer area, you start to get feed problems because of that twist unless you used an excessively short, wide case. Lever actions work fine with pointed bullets, like the Savage 99 and some others, but tubes work badly (the French Lebel rifle had problems with this in WWI). Most of those older cartridges used round nosed bullets most of the time anyway.

[kozak6]

He might have been talking about the Remington 14 or 141. It's a pump action rifle, but it does have a tube mag with a real interesting helix in it for the reason mentioned above.

It's also possible there's a lever action with a similar feature.

There's also the rotary style magazine on the Savage model 99. It inspired the 10/22 rotary magazine.

Also, keep in mind that it is possible to safely put 1 AND ONLY 1 Spitzer bullet in a tube magazine.

[Mike Irwin]

The Remington Model 14 had a spiral twist to the magazine tube, which was designed to keep the bullet from one cartridge resting on the primer of the one in front of it.

It was apparently successful, because Remington sold something like 70,000-100,000 Model 14s (it's hard to tell exactly, because the serial numbers are tied in with the Model 14 1/2, which did not have a spiral tube magazine).

The 14 was chambered for the Remington rimless cartridges, the .25, .30, .32, and .35 Remingtons.

The 14 1/2 was chambered for .38-40 and .44-40, which didn't need the spiral tube magazine.

[IrvJr]

Thanks All. It was the Remington pump gun that you mentioned. That was the mechanism he described!

[jmr40]

I thought I was right about the model 14 using the spiral magazine, but was unsure about it having anything to do with keeping the points away from primers. All of the rounds it was chambered in used round nose bullets to the best of my knowledge and could have worked just as well in a standard tube magazine. It is also my understanding that the 25, 30, and 32 cal Remingtons were basically rimless versions of the 30-30 family of cartridges chambered in the Win 94. Only the 35 Rem was something unique to Remington. Is this true as well?

[44 AMP]

Had curved "dimples" in the magazine tube, in a spiral arrangement. This was to keep the noses of the bullets away from the primers of the round ahead of it. It did work. It did not have feeding problems. One of my Dad's hunting buddies had one in .30 Rem.

The .25, .30, & .32 Rem were rimless equivalents of the winchester .25-35, .30-30, & .32 Special. The case bodies were different, but the perfromance was basically the same, although I think the .25 Rem was a bit hotter than the .25-35. The .35 Rem was a larger case, but was chambered in the same family of rifles as the other rem rounds, including the model 14/141 pumps and model 8/81 autos.

[Mike Irwin]

"All of the rounds it was chambered in used round nose bullets to the best of my knowledge and could have worked just as well in a standard tube magazine."

As originally loaded by Remington, the .25 and the .30 (I don't know about the .32 or the .35) could be had with pointed bullets.

It wasn't until after World War II that the .35 Remington became part of the Marlin lever-action line up, at which time it required flat or round-nosed bullets.

[Crosshair]

As originally loaded by Remington, the .25 and the .30 (I don't know about the .32 or the .35) could be had with pointed bullets.

I have seen old examples of 35 Remington ammo at gunshows that were loaded with spitzer bullets.

The 141 action is VERY smooth. I keep thinking about grabbing one, but can't find one in 30 Remington, so I can load spitzers, for a decent price. Most of what you can find is in 35 Remington.

[Ruger4570]

The older Remington 35's ( at least the ones in my collection)had a groove in the case surrounding the primer also. I suspect to help "capture" the point and insure it didn't rest against the primer.

[ken22250]

he was most likley talking about the remington 14 pump action. it had a spiral magizine so the tip of a spitzer bullet would touch the rim of the cartridge in front of it.
ken