Six years into the "hi-cap mag ban"

Sport · July 11, 2000, 08:07 PM

We are now nearly six years into the
federally imposed restrictions on the
manufacture of normal capacity magazines
for the civilian market. We all know what
has happened to prices of those products.

In four years, the restriction will
lifted unless extended by Congress.
My impression is that neither major-
party presidential candidate will openly
support a return to those glorious pre-
94,pre-ban days. Two questions:

Will the "assault weapons"/hi-cap law
be allowed to sunset?

Are you making your purchase decisions
assuming that it will be extended?

MD3C · July 11, 2000, 09:15 PM

I bought what few I have when they were a bit cheaper and didn't plan on getting any more. At least at that price or more.
Would like to get some if they went back down to $5 or so.

Be safe, MDS

tc556guy · July 11, 2000, 09:30 PM

I am upset that my state (NY) just passed a state version of the Fed law, so that even if the Fed law sunsets, we NY'ers will still be stuck with PC mags and guns. Of course, the country would then have a mish mash of hi cap and assault weapon states, just as we now have a mish mash of Class 3 states. Those of you in Free America would at least hopefully have mercy on those of us still stuck with the pre-94 stuff and sell off your old hi caps and Assault weapons to us, since your supply of these items would be refreshed (hey, I can dream!)

CMOS · July 12, 2000, 09:24 AM

Sport, I am still buying high-cap magazines for my pistols and rifles. I sugest you do to.

The AW ban will not be allowed to sunset. Think about it. We have more than enough turn-coat Republipukes in DC to sell us out - and they will - right in front of the TV cameras.

CMOS

------------------
NRA? Good. Now join the GOA!

The NRA is our shield, the GOA will be our sword.

**Glenn E. Meyer** · July 12, 2000, 09:46 AM

It will take a massive Republican victory to have any chance of letting these things go.

Remember how Dole forces quashed any attempt for the Senate to deal with the House's attempt to repeal the AW ban?

The NY Times today said the Dems have a real push to regain the House - it's only a six vote margin - so unless a miracle happens, with a tight Congressional margin - the GOP wouldn't take the chance of not renewing, IMHO.

Futo Inu · July 12, 2000, 11:28 AM

As I've stated numerous times, I'm very optimistic about the sunset. The reason why is because INERTIA is an incredibly powerful force. You have to look at how things are done in Congress. Our congresscritters are current-event, current-problem issue driven. Their whole focus (because it gets them the most political attention) is "what legislation can we pass [that the sheeple will think is good for them]". If "gun control" is NOT the hot topic at that moment, then it will sunset, because NO NEW legislation will be introduced. You have to understand, it's not like a vote is going to automatically come up on whether to sunset or renew. If that was the case, of course we'd be doomed. Of course Republicans will sell us out. But the inertia is on our side. ALL we will have to do is STOP NEW legislation from becoming law (which is 100 times easier to do than repealing legislation), IF and WHEN it comes up. If some other hot topics are occupying the minds of our critters, then the Dems won't even offer a renewal. And if it IS offered, if we just (unlike in 94) get off our duffs and put major heat on the Repubs, then we can and will defeat it. We will be armed with 10 years of hard data that a virtually negligible percentage of crimes involved more than 10 shots from a single gun, etc. Take heart, folks - this is one battle we CAN win IF we just fight a little bit for it.

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited July 12, 2000).]

Coinneach · July 12, 2000, 11:35 AM

Even if the Crime Bill *does* sunset, with ATF on the rampage, no dealer will go back to business as usual. The potential cost (like being murdered) is too high.

People, the law doesn't matter to ATF, only doing what they think is right. Look at the constant persecution of John Ross and Bob Stewart; flatly illegal, but so what?

David Roberson · July 12, 2000, 11:46 AM

If Bush somehow manages to get elected, I suspect the renewal of the ban on so-called assault weapons will be only one of the many events that makes Republicans on this board cry in horror that they can't believe they were so misled.

Futo, I wish that 10 years of data would be meaningful in the absolutely guaranteed rematch over the AW ban, but I'm afraid that what will happen is that the Democrats will scream that we must do it for the children, there will (as usual) be only a small number of Republicans with any courage or moral convictions to stand against them, and the ban will be renewed and sent to the president. If that's Gore, he will proclaim another victory over the Constitution, I mean crime, and if that's Bush, I doubt he will have the guts to veto it.

I guess we'll see in four years....

David Scott · July 12, 2000, 01:43 PM

I bought a pair of hi-caps for my Ruger P95 at the Orlando gun show Saturday, $21 apiece. I was staggered by the $100 prices on hi-caps for some other guns. Still, as I buy mags I will buy hi-caps if decently priced. Why would anyone elect to buy a smaller gas tank for their car?

USP45usp · July 12, 2000, 02:27 PM

I've already bought Hi-caps for guns I don't even own... yet

. When this stupid "ban" went into place, I forecasted what I might be interested in at a later date. So far, I have ten 30's and two 50's for an AR-15, A sh!tload of 30's for an M1 carbine (which I own), five 30's and five 50's plus one 75 for my SKS, about six 15rd mags for a P89DC, two 15rd mags for a Berrata(sp) FS92, Four 50's for an AK47, Two 18's for a Glock (forget the number) 9mm, Five 30's for an MP5 (hey, you never know), two 30's for an M1A, and at least four 50's for a TEC-9 (AB-10) of which I own. I thought... why the hell not... plus, it gives me a feeling of "F you" to the guberment. And no, none are for sell, yet. I'm waiting for the price to go up and sell at a reasonable cost or actually afford to get the ones I don't have yet (the actual gun). I just wished in 1992, I would have had the foresight to buy that AK, M1A, UZI, and others before the sh!t hit the fan.

USP45usp

*I do hope they resend the ban, that MP5 is looking better every day. And if they can repeal the '68 law, it would be easier to get without paying that damned $200 "tax" (a.k.a. registration fee).

**How's this for a byline: Cops use 15rd+ mags and they have backup; civilians are left to ten, and they don't have backup. Do the math.

[This message has been edited by USP45usp (edited July 12, 2000).]

Fred · July 12, 2000, 02:56 PM

I'm in the same boat as tcsd1236. It won't matter if the hi-cap ban is repealed since CA banned them on their own, effective January 1, 2000. No more hi cap sales here.

Can't wait to move out of here.

------------------
Regards - AZFred

**TheBluesMan** · July 12, 2000, 03:38 PM

I think that a powerful weapon for our side would be an independent study on the direct effect on crime in the eight full years prior to the ban and in the eight full years since the ban. The following criteria would be studied:

"Assault Weapons" (aka - self loading rifles): Uses of firearms of the style, "Pre-Ban Assault Rifles" in felonies committed from 1986-1993. Compared to: Uses of firearms of the style, "Post-Ban Assault Rifles" in felonies committed from 1995-2002. These statistics would only count felonies committed with rifles that fall into the categories listed above. They would not include "Full-Auto" or "Select-Fire" firearms, since those were already illegal (kinda) previous to the 1994 ban. Compare and contrast the severity of these incidences.

"Hi-Cap Magazines" (aka - standard capacity magazines): Incidences of felonies committed wherein more than 10 shots were fired from any firearm with a removable magazine, without re-loading. Compared to: Incidences of felonies committed wherein less than 10 shots were fired from any firearm with a removable magazine, without re-loading. Compare and contrast the severity of these incidences.

What do you think the outcomes of these proposed studies would be? My money’s on "no noticeable difference between the two." Therefore, the law does NOTHING.

------------------
RKBA!
"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4 Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website

Nestor Rivera · July 12, 2000, 04:35 PM

All we need is 10 good senators, and the AWB will sunset. Please make sure you vote for a good senator who will win.

Battler · July 12, 2000, 04:38 PM

Actually, this is where even anti-gun Republicans help.

Giving the repubs a majority, and having some good repubs on the committee for this thing, can keep anti-gun stuff off a bill, or stop some things from getting to a vote.

Battler.

BTR · July 12, 2000, 08:00 PM

Actually, I read in the Shotgun News a while back that the gov commisioned a study of the effectiveness of the ban, and it was released about 30 later. The acticle said the study concluded it was impossible to say the ban saved anyone's life.

swatman · July 12, 2000, 08:06 PM

I was under the impression that when the time period was up, that it would have to be renewed.. It would seem that it would be harder to repass it wouldn't it? As long as we continue to fight we may well have a chance to let this stupis law sunset finally

Guys, try to saty positive

------------------
"what gives a government that arms the whole world the right to disarm it's own citizens?"

Satanta · July 12, 2000, 08:34 PM

Lesseee....no worries. We'll have lost our soverienty by then and be under UN control. You KNOW how they feel about such things so we'll be perfectly okee-dokee.

Ed2000 · July 12, 2000, 10:16 PM

I don't think there is any chance the 94 laws will sunset. HCI/VPC/ATF will throw a fit as soon as the sunset nears and gutless liberal politicians on both sides will overwhelmingly support permanent bans. They will likely even ban guns "capable" of accepting pre ban mags and ban repair of pre ban mags. Heck, they will probably ban all hi cap mags including pre ban ones.

utvols · July 12, 2000, 10:50 PM

I believe the ban will go away. That is why there is a "sunset" provision in the first place. That way Democrats could get their legislation passed knowing that it was worthless. A "sunset" allows the thing to be resended without anyone voting on it and thus being labeled as being for more guns on the streets. It will take alot of work on our part and I urge each and everyone of you to get involved now. We can take back our government only if we try.
Now the big question will be how does the law get interpreted in the courts. For instance if I have a "LEO" magazine and get arrested, go to trial and find out that the max sentence is 5yrs, and the ban sunsets in 4 then what is the sentencing? Also what about all those "LEO" mags after the ban, can citizens then posses them?
The greatest thing we can do is sign people up for the NRA. Whether you are happy with them or not you have to admit the liberals hate them. Klinton blamed them for the Republican victories in '94, they are a larger organization today, don't think the politicos have dismissed that. We actually can rebound and resume our liberties but only if we stop complaining and start participating.

David Roberson · July 13, 2000, 08:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by utvols:
The greatest thing we can do is sign people up for the NRA. Whether you are happy with them or not you have to admit the liberals hate them. Klinton blamed them for the Republican victories in '94, they are a larger organization today, don't think the politicos have dismissed that. We actually can rebound and resume our liberties but only if we stop complaining and start participating. [/quote]

I don't agree that the AW ban will sunset -- I think either Bush or the Evil Al Gore will renew it -- but on the above point I concur fully. The NRA isn't always right, but they're the most powerful force on our side, and the one our enemies fear most. Just make sure you join GOA also.

**TheBluesMan** · July 13, 2000, 08:53 AM

I just found part of what I proposed above. A study of the two years following the AW ban in 1994.

Here is an article written by Clayton E. Cramer about the findings of this report: http://www.ggnra.org/cramer/Impacts.htm#fn2

You can download the actual report in PDF format here: http://www.ncjrs.org/pdffiles1/173405.pdf

------------------
RKBA!
"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4 Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website

Jack M · July 13, 2000, 11:52 AM

So, how many of the current crop of fine compact pistols were designed and marketed because of the ridiculous hi-cap ban? Seems the trend WAS to full size (hard to conceal) service autos, but now we have some sweet little single stack autos on the market. Maybe just my impression, I am admittedly ignorant on trends and such.

Valdez · July 13, 2000, 12:04 PM

The one thing we know is to plan ahead for this thing. The other is that the media is going to throw a fit about the possible sunset. Remember the Congressional election is important this year and in the intervening years.

Don't just vote get your amigos out too.

Battler · July 13, 2000, 02:06 PM

About the sunset, they didn't deliberately make it sunset.

Wasn't the crime bill a bill with a 10 year limit, that they happened to stick gun control to?

Battler.

**Glenn E. Meyer** · July 13, 2000, 03:50 PM

Jack - that and the CCW laws in 31 states.

The compact 45s like the Glock 36, P10 are certainly Children of the Ban!

The argument being with only ten rounds you are better with 7 or 8 45 ACP then ten
9mm. 16 9mms was more attractive.

In reality, though, I would prefer 10 40 SW to 7 45 ACP.

July 11, 2000, 08:07 PM	#1
Sport Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 1999 Posts: 317	We are now nearly six years into the federally imposed restrictions on the manufacture of normal capacity magazines for the civilian market. We all know what has happened to prices of those products. In four years, the restriction will lifted unless extended by Congress. My impression is that neither major- party presidential candidate will openly support a return to those glorious pre- 94,pre-ban days. Two questions: Will the "assault weapons"/hi-cap law be allowed to sunset? Are you making your purchase decisions assuming that it will be extended?

July 11, 2000, 09:15 PM	#2
MD3C Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: Tonopah, NV, USA Posts: 39	I bought what few I have when they were a bit cheaper and didn't plan on getting any more. At least at that price or more. Would like to get some if they went back down to $5 or so. Be safe, MDS

July 11, 2000, 09:30 PM	#3
tc556guy Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2000 Location: Afghanistan Posts: 757	I am upset that my state (NY) just passed a state version of the Fed law, so that even if the Fed law sunsets, we NY'ers will still be stuck with PC mags and guns. Of course, the country would then have a mish mash of hi cap and assault weapon states, just as we now have a mish mash of Class 3 states. Those of you in Free America would at least hopefully have mercy on those of us still stuck with the pre-94 stuff and sell off your old hi caps and Assault weapons to us, since your supply of these items would be refreshed (hey, I can dream!)

July 12, 2000, 09:24 AM	#4
CMOS Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 1999 Location: TEXAS Posts: 1,419	Sport, I am still buying high-cap magazines for my pistols and rifles. I sugest you do to. The AW ban will not be allowed to sunset. Think about it. We have more than enough turn-coat Republipukes in DC to sell us out - and they will - right in front of the TV cameras. CMOS ------------------ NRA? Good. Now join the GOA! The NRA is our shield, the GOA will be our sword.

July 12, 2000, 09:46 AM	#5
Glenn E. Meyer Staff Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 6,394	It will take a massive Republican victory to have any chance of letting these things go. Remember how Dole forces quashed any attempt for the Senate to deal with the House's attempt to repeal the AW ban? The NY Times today said the Dems have a real push to regain the House - it's only a six vote margin - so unless a miracle happens, with a tight Congressional margin - the GOP wouldn't take the chance of not renewing, IMHO.

July 12, 2000, 11:28 AM	#6
Futo Inu Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 1999 Location: Oklahoma City, OK, USA Posts: 3,629	As I've stated numerous times, I'm very optimistic about the sunset. The reason why is because INERTIA is an incredibly powerful force. You have to look at how things are done in Congress. Our congresscritters are current-event, current-problem issue driven. Their whole focus (because it gets them the most political attention) is "what legislation can we pass [that the sheeple will think is good for them]". If "gun control" is NOT the hot topic at that moment, then it will sunset, because NO NEW legislation will be introduced. You have to understand, it's not like a vote is going to automatically come up on whether to sunset or renew. If that was the case, of course we'd be doomed. Of course Republicans will sell us out. But the inertia is on our side. ALL we will have to do is STOP NEW legislation from becoming law (which is 100 times easier to do than repealing legislation), IF and WHEN it comes up. If some other hot topics are occupying the minds of our critters, then the Dems won't even offer a renewal. And if it IS offered, if we just (unlike in 94) get off our duffs and put major heat on the Repubs, then we can and will defeat it. We will be armed with 10 years of hard data that a virtually negligible percentage of crimes involved more than 10 shots from a single gun, etc. Take heart, folks - this is one battle we CAN win IF we just fight a little bit for it. [This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited July 12, 2000).]

July 12, 2000, 11:35 AM	#7
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,288	Even if the Crime Bill does sunset, with ATF on the rampage, no dealer will go back to business as usual. The potential cost (like being murdered) is too high. People, the law doesn't matter to ATF, only doing what they think is right. Look at the constant persecution of John Ross and Bob Stewart; flatly illegal, but so what?

July 12, 2000, 11:46 AM	#8
David Roberson Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: Iron Station, NC Posts: 584	If Bush somehow manages to get elected, I suspect the renewal of the ban on so-called assault weapons will be only one of the many events that makes Republicans on this board cry in horror that they can't believe they were so misled. Futo, I wish that 10 years of data would be meaningful in the absolutely guaranteed rematch over the AW ban, but I'm afraid that what will happen is that the Democrats will scream that we must do it for the children, there will (as usual) be only a small number of Republicans with any courage or moral convictions to stand against them, and the ban will be renewed and sent to the president. If that's Gore, he will proclaim another victory over the Constitution, I mean crime, and if that's Bush, I doubt he will have the guts to veto it. I guess we'll see in four years....

July 12, 2000, 01:43 PM	#9
David Scott Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2000 Posts: 2,458	I bought a pair of hi-caps for my Ruger P95 at the Orlando gun show Saturday, $21 apiece. I was staggered by the $100 prices on hi-caps for some other guns. Still, as I buy mags I will buy hi-caps if decently priced. Why would anyone elect to buy a smaller gas tank for their car?

July 12, 2000, 02:27 PM	#10
USP45usp Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2000 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 3,437	I've already bought Hi-caps for guns I don't even own... yet . When this stupid "ban" went into place, I forecasted what I might be interested in at a later date. So far, I have ten 30's and two 50's for an AR-15, A sh!tload of 30's for an M1 carbine (which I own), five 30's and five 50's plus one 75 for my SKS, about six 15rd mags for a P89DC, two 15rd mags for a Berrata(sp) FS92, Four 50's for an AK47, Two 18's for a Glock (forget the number) 9mm, Five 30's for an MP5 (hey, you never know), two 30's for an M1A, and at least four 50's for a TEC-9 (AB-10) of which I own. I thought... why the hell not... plus, it gives me a feeling of "F you" to the guberment. And no, none are for sell, yet. I'm waiting for the price to go up and sell at a reasonable cost or actually afford to get the ones I don't have yet (the actual gun). I just wished in 1992, I would have had the foresight to buy that AK, M1A, UZI, and others before the sh!t hit the fan. USP45usp I do hope they resend the ban, that MP5 is looking better every day. And if they can repeal the '68 law, it would be easier to get without paying that damned $200 "tax" (a.k.a. registration fee). *How's this for a byline: Cops use 15rd+ mags and they have backup; civilians are left to ten, and they don't have backup. Do the math. [This message has been edited by USP45usp (edited July 12, 2000).]

July 12, 2000, 02:56 PM	#11
Fred Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 1998 Location: CA Posts: 469	I'm in the same boat as tcsd1236. It won't matter if the hi-cap ban is repealed since CA banned them on their own, effective January 1, 2000. No more hi cap sales here. Can't wait to move out of here. ------------------ Regards - AZFred

July 12, 2000, 03:38 PM	#12
TheBluesMan Staff Join Date: June 15, 1999 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,566	I think that a powerful weapon for our side would be an independent study on the direct effect on crime in the eight full years prior to the ban and in the eight full years since the ban. The following criteria would be studied: "Assault Weapons" (aka - self loading rifles): Uses of firearms of the style, "Pre-Ban Assault Rifles" in felonies committed from 1986-1993. Compared to: Uses of firearms of the style, "Post-Ban Assault Rifles" in felonies committed from 1995-2002. These statistics would only count felonies committed with rifles that fall into the categories listed above. They would not include "Full-Auto" or "Select-Fire" firearms, since those were already illegal (kinda) previous to the 1994 ban. Compare and contrast the severity of these incidences. "Hi-Cap Magazines" (aka - standard capacity magazines): Incidences of felonies committed wherein more than 10 shots were fired from any firearm with a removable magazine, without re-loading. Compared to: Incidences of felonies committed wherein less than 10 shots were fired from any firearm with a removable magazine, without re-loading. Compare and contrast the severity of these incidences. What do you think the outcomes of these proposed studies would be? My money’s on "no noticeable difference between the two." Therefore, the law does NOTHING. ------------------ RKBA! "The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security" Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4 Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio. Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website

July 12, 2000, 04:35 PM	#13
Nestor Rivera Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 1998 Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA Posts: 446	All we need is 10 good senators, and the AWB will sunset. Please make sure you vote for a good senator who will win.

July 12, 2000, 04:38 PM	#14
Battler Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2000 Posts: 1,133	Actually, this is where even anti-gun Republicans help. Giving the repubs a majority, and having some good repubs on the committee for this thing, can keep anti-gun stuff off a bill, or stop some things from getting to a vote. Battler.

July 12, 2000, 08:00 PM	#15
BTR Senior Member Join Date: July 13, 1999 Posts: 563	Actually, I read in the Shotgun News a while back that the gov commisioned a study of the effectiveness of the ban, and it was released about 30 later. The acticle said the study concluded it was impossible to say the ban saved anyone's life.

July 12, 2000, 08:06 PM	#16
swatman Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2000 Location: Pa. USA Posts: 768	I was under the impression that when the time period was up, that it would have to be renewed.. It would seem that it would be harder to repass it wouldn't it? As long as we continue to fight we may well have a chance to let this stupis law sunset finally Guys, try to saty positive ------------------ "what gives a government that arms the whole world the right to disarm it's own citizens?"

July 12, 2000, 08:34 PM	#17
Satanta Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2000 Location: everywhere, U.S.A. Posts: 623	Lesseee....no worries. We'll have lost our soverienty by then and be under UN control. You KNOW how they feel about such things so we'll be perfectly okee-dokee.

July 12, 2000, 10:16 PM	#18
Ed2000 Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2000 Posts: 175	I don't think there is any chance the 94 laws will sunset. HCI/VPC/ATF will throw a fit as soon as the sunset nears and gutless liberal politicians on both sides will overwhelmingly support permanent bans. They will likely even ban guns "capable" of accepting pre ban mags and ban repair of pre ban mags. Heck, they will probably ban all hi cap mags including pre ban ones.

July 12, 2000, 10:50 PM	#19
utvols Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 1999 Posts: 165	I believe the ban will go away. That is why there is a "sunset" provision in the first place. That way Democrats could get their legislation passed knowing that it was worthless. A "sunset" allows the thing to be resended without anyone voting on it and thus being labeled as being for more guns on the streets. It will take alot of work on our part and I urge each and everyone of you to get involved now. We can take back our government only if we try. Now the big question will be how does the law get interpreted in the courts. For instance if I have a "LEO" magazine and get arrested, go to trial and find out that the max sentence is 5yrs, and the ban sunsets in 4 then what is the sentencing? Also what about all those "LEO" mags after the ban, can citizens then posses them? The greatest thing we can do is sign people up for the NRA. Whether you are happy with them or not you have to admit the liberals hate them. Klinton blamed them for the Republican victories in '94, they are a larger organization today, don't think the politicos have dismissed that. We actually can rebound and resume our liberties but only if we stop complaining and start participating.

July 13, 2000, 08:21 AM	#20
David Roberson Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: Iron Station, NC Posts: 584	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by utvols: The greatest thing we can do is sign people up for the NRA. Whether you are happy with them or not you have to admit the liberals hate them. Klinton blamed them for the Republican victories in '94, they are a larger organization today, don't think the politicos have dismissed that. We actually can rebound and resume our liberties but only if we stop complaining and start participating. [/quote] I don't agree that the AW ban will sunset -- I think either Bush or the Evil Al Gore will renew it -- but on the above point I concur fully. The NRA isn't always right, but they're the most powerful force on our side, and the one our enemies fear most. Just make sure you join GOA also.

July 13, 2000, 08:53 AM	#21
TheBluesMan Staff Join Date: June 15, 1999 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,566	I just found part of what I proposed above. A study of the two years following the AW ban in 1994. Here is an article written by Clayton E. Cramer about the findings of this report: http://www.ggnra.org/cramer/Impacts.htm#fn2 You can download the actual report in PDF format here: http://www.ncjrs.org/pdffiles1/173405.pdf ------------------ RKBA! "The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security" Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4 Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio. Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website

July 13, 2000, 11:52 AM	#22
Jack M Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2000 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 106	So, how many of the current crop of fine compact pistols were designed and marketed because of the ridiculous hi-cap ban? Seems the trend WAS to full size (hard to conceal) service autos, but now we have some sweet little single stack autos on the market. Maybe just my impression, I am admittedly ignorant on trends and such.

July 13, 2000, 12:04 PM	#23
Valdez Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 1998 Posts: 234	The one thing we know is to plan ahead for this thing. The other is that the media is going to throw a fit about the possible sunset. Remember the Congressional election is important this year and in the intervening years. Don't just vote get your amigos out too.

July 13, 2000, 02:06 PM	#24
Battler Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2000 Posts: 1,133	About the sunset, they didn't deliberately make it sunset. Wasn't the crime bill a bill with a 10 year limit, that they happened to stick gun control to? Battler.

July 13, 2000, 03:50 PM	#25
Glenn E. Meyer Staff Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 6,394	Jack - that and the CCW laws in 31 states. The compact 45s like the Glock 36, P10 are certainly Children of the Ban! The argument being with only ten rounds you are better with 7 or 8 45 ACP then ten 9mm. 16 9mms was more attractive. In reality, though, I would prefer 10 40 SW to 7 45 ACP.