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Old September 20, 2009, 06:09 PM   #1
DeathRabbit
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The Tavor TAR-21

I am saving money to buy a new hunting/personal defense rifle. The one that I have in mind is the Tavor TAR-21. It is an awesome assault rifle with an effective range around 550 meters. Before I spend $3,000.00 on one I would appreciate any input on them from anyone who has used them or heard anything about them.
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Old September 21, 2009, 01:24 AM   #2
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How can you get a TAR-21? I haven't seen one out for the civilian market yet.
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Old September 21, 2009, 09:43 AM   #3
Willie D
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Unless you live abroad, they are unavailable.

The "effective range" would apply to any rifle in 5.56 with a similar length barrel.
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Old September 21, 2009, 08:27 PM   #4
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There was a web site that is based in canada where you can buy a semi auto tavor. They are sold out though. About the effective range, are you saying that an AR-15 is effective to 550m?..And if so, what is your definition of an "effective range"?
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Old September 21, 2009, 09:07 PM   #5
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The M16A2 has an effective range of 550m for point targets, so yeah, an AR-15 should be the same. Although if you did some work, it would easily be more accurate...

...so you are planning on importing a rifle? Seems like that would lead to too much paperwork, IMO.
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Old September 21, 2009, 09:10 PM   #6
Willie D
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Are you in Canada? If so, and if you are eligible to buy, you can get a lot of stuff we can't in the US.


If you are in the US, all you can do is stare longingly at the Marstar.ca website and dream about $400 Norinco m14s, brand new Sturmgewehrs, $2000 full auto AKs, etc. You CAN NOT import any of them except possibly as a non-saleable dealer sample if you are a licensed dealer.



What does effective range mean? 36" NRA Highpower targets at 600 yards? Man size at 300? Ultimate lethal range? Damn if I know. What I do know is that accuracy for two service rifles shooting the same ammo with roughly the same barrel shouldn't be too far apart.
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Old September 21, 2009, 11:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
There was a web site that is based in canada where you can buy a semi auto tavor.
What everyone else has already said -- unless you're Canadian, Marstar's website is about as useful for a shooter wanting a Tavor locked in an IDF arms room in downtown Tel Aviv.

Quote:
About the effective range, are you saying that an AR-15 is effective to 550m?..And if so, what is your definition of an "effective range"?
An M4 and ACOG combo can make hits on a steel chest plate out at 550 meters all day long as long as the shooter does his part. Certainly the round's not going to put a spring in anyone's step even out at that range.
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Old September 22, 2009, 06:58 AM   #8
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Over on AR15.com, there's a long post regarding Charles Daly building a semi-auto Tavor clone in the us. It should be available next year. No price point on it yet. The OP could be talking about that.
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Old September 22, 2009, 01:05 PM   #9
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I'm sorry I can't really answer you question, but I thought you might enjoy these pictures anyway Notice the nice American made optics on the rifles

Jaffa Gate in Old City, Jerusalem





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Old September 22, 2009, 01:14 PM   #10
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I think they are State of the Art, and I'd love to have one. With that being said, I think it's going to be a while (if ever) that we'll be able to get our hands on one.

Quote:
About the effective range, are you saying that an AR-15 is effective to 550m?..And if so, what is your definition of an "effective range"?
Ck this thread out, on what I did on Sunday.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=377420


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Old September 22, 2009, 02:06 PM   #11
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Theres always the FNS2000....not exactly the same, but it is a modern bullpup with many of the same features of the tavor. Plus the foward ejecting brass is a nice feature. Retails around $1800.
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Old September 22, 2009, 07:19 PM   #12
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Anybody see any trace of magazines in those pics from Israel?

I know they don't stroll around with the rifles loaded and sometimes use an L-shaped clip to hold the M4 magazines "near" the magazine well on the M4, but I don't see anything similar here.

One round in a shirt pocket?

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Old September 22, 2009, 08:18 PM   #13
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What exactly are you going to hunt?

5.56 at 550 meters is not going to be effective on anything better than coyotes from a humane kill standpoint. Not saying these wouldn't kill at that range...just not what most people would consider to be humane.

Oh, and unless you live in Canada...you won't be getting one any time soon. Charles Daly is rumored to be importing...but we'll have to see.

M855/SS109 5.56x45mm

Ballistic Coefficient: .353 Bullet Diameter: .224 in. Bullet Weight: 62 grains
Muzzle Velocity: 3100 ft./sec. Sight Height: 2.5 in. Zero Distance: 328 yds.
Cross Wind: 5 mph Firing Angle: 0 degrees

Indices Range
Range - yds. 0 50 100 150 200 250 300 350 400 450 500 550 600 650 700
Velocity - ft./sec. 3100 2962 2828 2697 2570 2447 2327 2211 2098 1990 1884 1782 1683 1590 1502
Energy - ft.-lbs. 1323 1208 1101 1001 909 824 745 673 606 545 489 437 390 348 310
Path - in. -2.5 1.1 3.7 5.2 5.5 4.5 2.1 -2.0 -7.8 -15.6 -25.6 -38.1 -53.3 -71.6 -93.3
Drift - in. 0.0 0.1 0.2 0.4 0.8 1.2 1.8 2.6 3.4 4.5 5.7 7.0 8.6 10.4 12.3


M193 5.56x45mm

Ballistic Coefficient: .255 Bullet Diameter: .224 in. Bullet Weight: 55 grains
Muzzle Velocity: 3200 ft./sec. Sight Height: 2.5 in. Zero Distance: 273 yds.
Cross Wind: 5 mph Firing Angle: 0 degrees

Indices Range
Range - yds. 0 50 100 150 200 250 300 350 400 450 500 550 600 650 700
Velocity - ft./sec. 3200 3006 2819 2640 2467 2302 2143 1991 1846 1707 1577 1457 1348 1252 1170
Energy - ft.-lbs. 1250 1103 970 851 743 647 561 484 416 356 304 259 222 191 167
Path - in. -2.5 0.5 2.5 3.4 3.1 1.3 -2.0 -7.3 -14.8 -24.9 -37.9 -54.5 -75.1 -100.5 -131.5
Drift - in. 0.0 0.1 0.2 0.6 1.1 1.7 2.6 3.6 4.9 6.5 8.3 10.4 12.9 15.7 18.8
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Old September 23, 2009, 07:19 PM   #14
Charles Daly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamkris
...Charles Daly is rumored to be importing...but we'll have to see.
Not importing. Look for a US made Tavor to be available next year. For further information, there is lengthy thread on ar15.com which can be seen here: Tavor Discussion Thread on ar15.com.
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Old September 23, 2009, 10:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Anybody see any trace of magazines in those pics from Israel?
Yup. Solider on the far left in the first and second pic clearly has a loaded magazine strapped to the side of his rifle. (First pic is clearer.) Clearly that is done to reduce the possibility of damage to the magazine, yet have it readily available should lead start flying.
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Old September 24, 2009, 03:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Anybody see any trace of magazines in those pics from Israel?
I saw almost no soldiers/policemen who had magazines IN their rifles. Most of them had the mags ready on a chest or strapped to the rifle.

Quote:
Not importing. Look for a US made Tavor to be available next year. For further information, there is lengthy thread on ar15.com which can be seen here: Tavor Discussion Thread on ar15.com.
Do you know if the US made ones will be available in Europe, too? It would be legal to import the Israeli ones here, but I don't see that happening anytime soon since they are planning to completely replace the M16/M4 rifles with the TAR-21 in the next few years
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Old September 24, 2009, 04:14 PM   #17
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Regarding the magazines, keep in mind that virtually every able-bodied 17-21 year old in Israel, male and female (other than the ultra-orthodox and Arabs) serves in the IDF in some capacity. Most of the soldiers you see strolling around Jerusalem are on their way home on leave (it's a small country and active duty soldiers routinely leave their basis to go home on Shabbat -- Saturday, the Jewish sabath) or going back to base. Soldiers are responsible for their weapons and penalties for a lost or stolen weapon are severe, so soldiers on leave typically carry their weapons everywhere, even when heading out for pizza on a saturday night. Soldiers iin such a situation do not (and aren't permitted to) keep a magazine in their rifle. A soldier on patrol (e.g., the paramilitary Border police patroling the old city) would have a magazine loaded.
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Old September 25, 2009, 03:53 PM   #18
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Quote:
Soldiers iin such a situation do not (and aren't permitted to) keep a magazine in their rifle.
That does make sense considering the wide background of individuals. Eliminates 99.9% of negligent discharges yet they still would be able to respond to an emergency situation after spending 5 seconds to insert the magazine and load a round.
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Old September 25, 2009, 04:13 PM   #19
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Israeli pistol carry, with an empty chamber, comes from the same logic.
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Old September 25, 2009, 06:05 PM   #20
Willie D
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I thought the Israeli pistol carry was primarily a response to what used to be their primary sidearm, the Hi-Power.

With a decocker type pistol like the Jericho do they still carry without a round in the chamber?
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Old September 25, 2009, 06:55 PM   #21
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That's my understanding, but may be mistaken -- plus it's a good universal safety measure that isn't weapon-specific, and I think even when the High Power was common the IDF and Israeli security forces still used a hodge podge of sidearms.
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