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Old October 3, 2009, 09:43 PM   #1
MLeake
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Injuries at Lakeland, FL gun range

Sorry the article isn't more detailed. Quick summary: couple injured by own weapon, and at least one bullet hit a customer in the adjacent stall. Incident involved a Jennings 9mm and "at least three bullets."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,4957970.story

I didn't even realize Jennings made a 9mm. I've only seen a Jennings .22, and didn't like the look or feel of that.

Without more detail, not sure if this was a case of the weapon malfunctioning and going full auto, or pure handling error. It will be interesting to see if they follow up on it.
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Old October 3, 2009, 09:55 PM   #2
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I'm not sure where it says three bullets... one was struck in the hand, another in the arm and the third in the shoulder and throat. It's perfectly plausible for a single 9mm FMJ to have done all of that.
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Old October 3, 2009, 09:57 PM   #3
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I'm not sure where it says three bullets...
In the final paragraph of the article.
The shooting, which involved at least three bullets, happened a little after 10:30 a.m. at Saddle Creek Shooting Range, 3716 Morgan Combee Road.
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Old October 3, 2009, 09:59 PM   #4
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Jennings 9mm.

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Old October 3, 2009, 10:00 PM   #5
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In the final paragraph of the article.
Ooo... missed that part. Now that does seem odd. A single unintentional discharge I can see, but three... unless it did go full auto, is hard to imagine.
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Old October 3, 2009, 10:03 PM   #6
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Found another article...

http://www.theledger.com/article/200...Range-Accident

It seems it just started firing after being set down on the bench, or at least that's the story being given.
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Old October 3, 2009, 10:14 PM   #7
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That's pretty strange...

I could see it conceivably going off once after being set down if something broke.

I don't really understand how it could go off a second and third time with no outside help. Most autopistols won't cycle if they're not being held--they need the resistance provided by the shooter's hand.

I wouldn't say it's impossible, but I'd want some real convincing evidence from the scene to back up that story before I'd buy in.

Either way it's a fairly bizarre story.
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Old October 3, 2009, 10:25 PM   #8
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My brother had a Jennings that would fire if you let the slide go sharply. It would fire if you put it down hard. It would fire full auto when you pulled the trigger.

I was terrified of the mere mention of that thing. I told him it was an accident waiting to happen.

He got rid of it some way or another. I never asked and he is no longer with us so it's sort of a moot point.
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Old October 4, 2009, 01:12 AM   #9
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I suppose a hangfire (delayed fire) followed by the gun going stupid-auto is *possible* but...dayum. That means a bad primer followed immediately by a bad gun. Bad as hell LUCK that would be.

OR...OK, say the firing pin (or striker?) "hung up" somehow and didn't go forward right away. Now we at least have the whole fault on a bad gun, which is a bit easier to buy.

Stupid gunsmithing could easily be involved. Say, it was jamming a lot, somebody tried to "polish the internals" without knowing what they were doing?

This is all assuming that the story we're hearing now is actually true of course...
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Old October 4, 2009, 03:24 AM   #10
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my dads friend traded for a Jennings 9mm a while back. walking down the stairs of his back porch he dropped it and it did a "true lies"(Jamie lee Curtis drops the Uzi), but some holes in his house but missed him and his dog.

if you pull the trigger it will fire all the rounds in the mag even if you let off the trigger.

it will also fire from impact, and once firing it doesnt stop.
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Old October 4, 2009, 03:52 AM   #11
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I repeat myself, but:

Jennings, Davis, Cobra, Lorcin, Jimenez, Wilkinson, Phoenix Arms, Raven, Hi-Point, Stallard, RG, etc., etc.

What can I say, except that a fool and his money are soon parted.
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Old October 4, 2009, 07:42 AM   #12
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A single unintentional discharge I can see, but three... unless it did go full auto, is hard to imagine.
I'm with you. Hard to believe that it would discharge after being placed on the bench. If that is that case, that's just plain scary.
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Old October 4, 2009, 08:52 AM   #13
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Aw, Ravens aren't so bad for a zinc gun. My first auto was a Raven back in the 80's and I still have it! If it were truly junk and did not function I would have cut it up and sold the parts. It didn't have to go back to the factory for adjustments to make it function like some of your "kustom" high dollar guns! Then again I am not too hot on the idea of a larger caliber gun made with the same pot metal concept. Needs more detail to know what really happened, but I would avoid that sort of gun in any case. I think the Raven was around 60$ NIB so it is not like I bought a 800$ gun that FTF.
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Old October 4, 2009, 10:55 AM   #14
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"Detectives say the gun fired at least three times after Thourot set it down facing his wife, rather than downrange, which is considered a proper safety procedure."

Certainly started off on the right foot.
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Old October 4, 2009, 12:00 PM   #15
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I find it very interesting that it took as many posts as it did before anyone said anything about where the gun was pointed when he sat it down. Who knows, if it would have been pointed downrange maybe no one would have been hurt.

It's easy to start blaming the Brand when things like this happen, and it could very well be a malfunction, but there was also a statement from the police or the paper that the gun could have been altered. Which by the way I find disturbing they have to throw that comment in the article.

Bottom line for me is that there is way to little info to start making judgements about altered weapons, quality of said gun and so on. All we know is that there was careless gun handling and three people are injured.
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Old October 4, 2009, 12:01 PM   #16
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I just hope that couple never buys another gun
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Old October 4, 2009, 12:26 PM   #17
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http://www.theledger.com/article/200...Range-Accident
Quote:
Detectives say the gun fired at least three times after Thourot set it down facing his wife, rather than downrange, which is considered a proper safety procedure. The gun began to spin, striking Flynn, who stood next to a bench a few feet away.
Broke the rule about keeping the gun pointed in a safe direction. However, if and/or when the gun malfunctioned; there is little that could have been done to prevent the spinning from the recoil.

If Thourot altered the gun so that it malfunctioned then he was negligent.
If he bought a used gun that was altered then I'd say it is not Thourot's fault assuming he was ignorant of the alteration.
If the gun was not altered and malfunctioned then it is the manufacturer's fault, and a product liability suit should ensue.
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Old October 4, 2009, 12:40 PM   #18
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If Thourot altered the gun so that it malfunctioned then he was negligent.
If he bought a used gun that was altered then I'd say it is not Thourot's fault assuming he was ignorant of the alteration.
If the gun was not altered and malfunctioned then it is the manufacturer's fault, and a product liability suit should ensue.
I believe pointing it in an unsafe direction would have made him negligent regardless. The only question is whether he is solely responsible, or if the negligence of a third party contributed to incident.
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Old October 4, 2009, 12:54 PM   #19
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I guess i find myself wondering why there was a loaded magazine in the gun with the slide left forward on a chambered round when every range ive ever been to on the face of this planet has required that firearms be placed on the bench with slides back and magazines out.

Seems like everyone involved here is to blame for one reason or another.
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Old October 4, 2009, 12:55 PM   #20
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I'm not buying it

Closer to the truth, husband still had his finger on the trigger and was putting the gun down when he accidently pulled the trigger, then panicked and let two more round go.

"Thourot set it down facing his wife, rather than downrange, which is considered a proper safety procedure." At what shooting range is this considered proper safety?
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Old October 4, 2009, 02:39 PM   #21
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Badly written sentence.

I am pretty sure it should have read, "Thourot set it down facing his wife. He should have set it down facing down range, which would have been considered proper safety procedure."

Either the writer was lazy, and was probably also trying to conserve line space by condensing two sentences, or, the writer originally wrote it as two sentences, but the editor botched an effort to condense two sentences into one.
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Old October 4, 2009, 02:49 PM   #22
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Gee, I have seen all sorts of guns at the range, not being handled by people, that would be considered not pointed in a safe direction. Even so for the transgression, that would only account for one injury. After the gun started to spin on its alleged own accord, the initial orientation became moot.

I am still voting for demonic possession (assuming the gun wasn't being touched when it started to fire) as I keep reading on gun boards that guns just don't go off by themselves.
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Old October 4, 2009, 04:15 PM   #23
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At the range where I'm an RO the only time that all weapons have to be made safe, *magazine removed slide locked back for autos, cylinder open and empty for revolvers, muzzles pointed down range" is when the range is closed. Weapons at all times must have their muzzles pointing down range. When the range is "hot" weapons can be in any condition but again the muzzles must be pointed down range.
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Old October 4, 2009, 04:51 PM   #24
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Just a guess on my part, but I find it hard to believe any weapon would fire by just lying it down unless there was a homicidal tic hiding on the shooting bench. I could see a weapon like the Jennings going off it were dropped, the slide slamming closed on a loaded magazine and the trigger malfunctioned, unloading the remaining three rounds. Glad the three people are not dead and once again, another reason not to go to a crowded range with people whom you have no idea of their training or skill level, never mind their safety-mindedness. If I can't have three or more lanes between me and a shooter I don't know, I ain't shootin'. I can wait or I can come back another time.

Not that three lanes will guarantee my safety if there is an outburst of lunacy, but it sure helps with increasing the odds.
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Old October 4, 2009, 05:07 PM   #25
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It is people like this that give gun enthusiasts bad names. I know it could have been an accident, but everyone who owns a gun should know to put it on safety when they are not firing it.(although it does seem like it wasn't an accident.)

Although it was idiotic actions that made this happen, I do hope that everyone involved will be o.k.
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