Suggestions? On loading 230 Grain FMJ-RN .451 in 45 Colt Cases....

Scrapperz · March 5, 2010, 02:14 PM

I have these but do not load for 45ACP. Does anyone have any load suggestions for loading in 45 Colt so that I may shoot them out of my 460XVR? I'm not looking for any high pressure loads here, just for plinking.

I have posted here also if you would like to read what others said.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=509593
http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloadi...olt-cases.html

I hope someone can chime in so I can make use of these.

goodspeed(TPF) · March 5, 2010, 02:41 PM

I use Winchester 231. Check a current manual for recipes and enjoy.

Scrapperz · March 5, 2010, 09:41 PM

Anybody else have any suggestions?

nate45 · March 5, 2010, 09:54 PM

Which propellant were you thinking of using? Or which propellants do you have on hand?

I might use something like 7 or 8 grains of Unique or like goodspeed(TPF) suggested 231, 6 or 7 grains of it would probably be okay.

I know its just pinking, but I like to fill more of the case volume with powder, so I might look at 4227 and 2400 as well. 13-15 grains of 2400 would be a decent load and probably 18-20 with the 4227. Those loads would be safe in a modern SAA, so they are definitely okay in a .460. Standard large pistol primers will ignite 2400 and 4227 plenty good as well.

Scrapperz · March 5, 2010, 11:05 PM

I have on hand IMR4227,Win296,H110,Lil Gun,Blue Dot,AA7,HS6,Unique. I would be using Winchester Large Pistol primers in 45 Colt cases, but I do have 454 Casull and 460 Mag Cases.

Also I had this suggested. I'm still collecting ideas though.

Link>>>>>http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloadi...#post135382064

Quote:

If you are going to load those for .45LC, you may want to invest in a cannelure tool so that you have something to crimp the case into. I have to do the same thing for .401 FMJ bullets when I am reloading for .38 WCF (aka .38-40). The Corbin HCT-1 runs $139 according to their website. Costly, but worth it (at least to me.) I inherited mine...

Some may not agree with my suggestion, and that's okay. I've just found that the cannelure rolled into these bullets meant for semi-auto rounds helps keep the bullet at proper depth in the case - no slipping out the front of the case under recoil and binding up the revolver, and no slipping back into the case if you accidentally drop a round from your hand.

JMO...

My .45LC load:
230gr FMJ
11.0 gr. of Accurate No. 5
CCI 300 primer
COL is 1.595"
970fps
your mileage my vary (and you may want to back off of that load by 10% or so and work your way up!)

Regards,
Mike

nate45 · March 5, 2010, 11:16 PM

Load up a few with Unique and 4227 and see which you like best. I just checked my loading manuals and it looks like the AA7 and HS6 would make good loads too at about 13-15 grains for the AA7 and 11-12 of the HS6.

The H110/296 which are exactly the same, do not lend themselves well to reduced loads and should not be used for such.

On reflection, if economy is a bid consideration, I would probably use the Unique.

Edit: just saw your addition, that load looks okay.

Scrapperz · March 5, 2010, 11:28 PM

Thanks for your checking. I'm gonna try Unique and 4227. Which books are you using? I can look in my library to see if I have the same thing.

I was looking in the Lyman 49th and see loads on pg. 390 for 240gr jacketed and the loads starting range is Unique@8gr, HS6@10.

My only other question is what would be my OAL? Since these loads are for 240gr Jacketed HC, which is a flat nose bullet. Or should I insert the bullet right before where the ogive starts?

Scrapperz · March 6, 2010, 12:48 AM

I've checked the bullet fit in a new sized case, without the expander, and it's a slip fit (no good). If I want to do this I'm gonna have to size this case down more using an 45 ACP die. So maybe I should look to trade these for something I can actually use after-all. I won't give up though it'll just be on the back burner is all.

zippy13 · March 6, 2010, 12:53 AM

Scrapperz, as you're probably aware the loading data for the .45 Colt (Long Colt) incorporate a flat nose type bullet. Commercial loads have flat nose, semi wad cutter and hollow point bullets because this cartridge is used in tube magazines as well as handguns. Older guns chambered for the .45 LC were made when the standard was for a bullet that was larger than todays .45 LC. Consequently, commercial loaders tend toward softer lead bullets to accommodate both diameters. Ammo with jacketed bullets has a caveat about using it in only modern guns. And, the reloading data are typically conservative. Again, because of the broad nature the guns chambered in .45 LC. Newer guns in .460 S&W Mag and .454 Casull can digest just about any .45 Colt you can reasonably assemble. Some of the older .45LCs are looking for an excuse to come apart. Using your 230-gr FMJ-RNs might in result in an over-length in a modern .45 LC gun or be troublesome in a tube mag. However, for your 460XVR they'll have found a happy home.

For plinking loads, I'd probably go with a little Bullseye or Unique with an OAL in the neighborhood of 1.642" (or less, assuming a RN bullet projection of .357") and some Dacron filler to take up the void. The filler probably isn't necessary but I like to think it gives me a little better accuracy in my lo-pow loads.

Scrapperz · March 6, 2010, 01:00 AM

Thanks for comment.... I might find a cheap way to tighten up this case mouth yet. I'm gettin kinda curious as to they'll work for plinking.

zxcvbob · March 6, 2010, 01:15 AM

I load 230 grain cast bullets with 7.5 grains of Red Dot. It's my favorite .45 Colt load.

With the powders you have, try 17 to 17.5 grains of either Blue Dot or AA#7. You can "neck size" the cases using a .45 ACP die or the base of a .308 or .30-06 die to tighten them up. Roll crimp just enough to bite into the copper jacket without deforming the bullet noticably.

Scrapperz · March 6, 2010, 01:24 AM

Good one....Thanks

Scrapperz · March 6, 2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

You should'nt have a slip fit period. If they truely are .451, that is the correct diameter for .45 Colt. It sounds like your sizing die is'nt doing its job.

As for setback, it won't happen in a revolver. They start to pull out, not setback, and is ussually reserved for heavy bullets with very stout loads. I doubt it will be much of a problem with a good roll crimp and a 230gr even without a crimp groove.

For a load, I would probably just drop them right on top of 9gr of Unique. And the OAL of this recipe should get you real close to correct, if not a little long, which is to err on the side of safer yet.

First thanks for your posting. Second, I have to say last night I used the wrong sizing die, but on purpose, I should have specified this in the that post. Please remember everyone I'm patient and in no hurry, This is how I have been able to do unusual things, in my career as a proto-type machinist, successfully without hurting myself. Patience is a Virtue

Ok, last night I had the 460 die in the press and ran it in there. realizing it's not good enough, the 460 case wall must be thicker. This afternoon I took out my RCBS sizing die in 45 Colt and now I'm good to go. I now have good case neck tension and with a Lee factory crimp it should be good. Also I tried to push the bullet in this sized case and with alot of force it was hard to push in past the nose. My hands are really strong, after so much wrenching in my careers, and I know I can press a bullet in a good case bullet fit if I try hard enough.

Although I will say an 45 ACP sizing die would be even better. I will still take my time with this and make sure I'm safe....I will keep ya'll posted.

Please, if anyone has any more ideas or suggestions keep them coming.

March 5, 2010, 02:41 PM	#2
goodspeed(TPF) Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Location: WI Posts: 1,162	I use Winchester 231. Check a current manual for recipes and enjoy. __________________ It's a trick. Get an axe. http://www.thepiratefleet.com/index.shtml

March 5, 2010, 09:54 PM	#4
nate45 Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 3,746	Which propellant were you thinking of using? Or which propellants do you have on hand? I might use something like 7 or 8 grains of Unique or like goodspeed(TPF) suggested 231, 6 or 7 grains of it would probably be okay. I know its just pinking, but I like to fill more of the case volume with powder, so I might look at 4227 and 2400 as well. 13-15 grains of 2400 would be a decent load and probably 18-20 with the 4227. Those loads would be safe in a modern SAA, so they are definitely okay in a .460. Standard large pistol primers will ignite 2400 and 4227 plenty good as well. __________________ "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."- Thomas Jefferson ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ (>_<)

March 5, 2010, 11:16 PM	#6
nate45 Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 3,746	Load up a few with Unique and 4227 and see which you like best. I just checked my loading manuals and it looks like the AA7 and HS6 would make good loads too at about 13-15 grains for the AA7 and 11-12 of the HS6. The H110/296 which are exactly the same, do not lend themselves well to reduced loads and should not be used for such. On reflection, if economy is a bid consideration, I would probably use the Unique. Edit: just saw your addition, that load looks okay. __________________ "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."- Thomas Jefferson ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ (>_<)

March 6, 2010, 01:15 AM	#11
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	I load 230 grain cast bullets with 7.5 grains of Red Dot. It's my favorite .45 Colt load. With the powders you have, try 17 to 17.5 grains of either Blue Dot or AA#7. You can "neck size" the cases using a .45 ACP die or the base of a .308 or .30-06 die to tighten them up. Roll crimp just enough to bite into the copper jacket without deforming the bullet noticably. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

March 6, 2010, 12:53 AM	#9
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Scrapperz, as you're probably aware the loading data for the .45 Colt (Long Colt) incorporate a flat nose type bullet. Commercial loads have flat nose, semi wad cutter and hollow point bullets because this cartridge is used in tube magazines as well as handguns. Older guns chambered for the .45 LC were made when the standard was for a bullet that was larger than todays .45 LC. Consequently, commercial loaders tend toward softer lead bullets to accommodate both diameters. Ammo with jacketed bullets has a caveat about using it in only modern guns. And, the reloading data are typically conservative. Again, because of the broad nature the guns chambered in .45 LC. Newer guns in .460 S&W Mag and .454 Casull can digest just about any .45 Colt you can reasonably assemble. Some of the older .45LCs are looking for an excuse to come apart. Using your 230-gr FMJ-RNs might in result in an over-length in a modern .45 LC gun or be troublesome in a tube mag. However, for your 460XVR they'll have found a happy home. For plinking loads, I'd probably go with a little Bullseye or Unique with an OAL in the neighborhood of 1.642" (or less, assuming a RN bullet projection of .357") and some Dacron filler to take up the void. The filler probably isn't necessary but I like to think it gives me a little better accuracy in my lo-pow loads.