HELP! Kel-Tec P11 vs. Taurus PT-111Ti. Which to buy?

shifty · November 27, 2000, 06:52 PM

Well crap! I had just decided on buying the Kel-Tec P11, when all of a sudden I come across the Taurus PT-111Ti. Now I need some information.

Does anyone have both? How do they compare in terms of quality, reliability, price, and (most important) size?

I have compared the specs on the Kel-Tec and Taurus websites and it looks like the Taurus is basically a clone of the Kel-Tec, but I did notice these differences:

*The Taurus is 2oz. heavier than the Kel-tec.

*The Taurus gun much better looking, and has a more refined/polished look.

Any more info would be appreciated, especially about the size difference. I am also unfamiliar with Taurus as a company, how is their reputation?

Thanks,
-Shifty

rblack · November 27, 2000, 07:16 PM

Kel-Tec is much easier to take down and reassemble. I have the Kel-Tec and my father has the Taurus. Kel-Tec is quite a bit less expensive also.

mikey357 · November 27, 2000, 09:20 PM

shifty-If it was me, I'd go with the Kel-Tec. I've got one-except for one "bobble" at around 75 rounds fired, I've had NO PROBLEMS with it. The one jam it did have was with Mrs. 3-5-7 shooting it-I wasn't able to duplicate it, so maybe she "limp-wristed" it??? Two guys at work both have Kel-Tecs and have nothing but good things to say about them. The Taurus polymer-framed autos have a reputation for "spotty" QC, at least in my part of the world...one may run fine, but the next one [or two, or three...] will be a jam-o-matic. Kel-Tec has a very good rep for product support and service, as does Taurus. I just happen to think you'd be better-seved by the Kel-Tec....mikey357

Oleg Volk · November 27, 2000, 10:31 PM

...and love the P32, I had to get a refund for a P11. Mine would toss brass right in my face often enough to make it unusable. Apparently, almost all P11s eject haphazardly.

I am not familiar with the Taurus offering but don't think it was perfect. Might you consider heavier but smaller Kahr MK9 or equally light if larger Kahr P9 (my choice) or even a Mustang Pocketlite?

GIT_SOME.45 · November 28, 2000, 01:41 AM

Go Kel-Tec.

JMHO

Howard

kingknives · November 28, 2000, 11:20 AM

I wrote a comparison of these two when the Taurus first came out, shooting both side by side. I'll try to post it tonight when I get home. There was very little difference between the two, but in the end, I would go with the Kel-Tec.

Ben · November 28, 2000, 01:34 PM

If you insist on the Ti version of the Taurus, then I would go with the Kel-Tec to save some money to buy lots of practice ammo to check it's reliability.

Ben

kingknives · November 29, 2000, 04:44 PM

Here's a link to the reveiw I wrote on the side by side shooting of the Kel-Tec P-11 and Taurus PT-111.

http://members.aol.com/kingstan/pt-111.htm

Marcus · November 29, 2000, 09:33 PM

Keltec, it`s lighter, easier to strip, less complex, uses *&* hi caps, factory belt clip, less gritty trigger....the list goes on. I have 4000+ rounds (I`ve lost count) through mine including lots of +Ps and cheap foreign ammo with 0 jams or problems. I wouldn`t trade it for 10 PT-111s. Marcus

branrot · November 30, 2000, 12:17 AM

I did the same research when I was looking at the 2 guns, and I went with the Kel Tec. While I've never shot the Taurus, I've shot other Tauruses (Taurii?), and was not impressed with their quality. In fairness, I've heard that the quality has improved. Anyway, I have the P11, and I've been very happy with it.

KJanko · March 27, 2005, 10:34 AM

I am replying to the comment that apparently all P 11's toss brass haphazardly????? And he had to get a refund because of this! Bull&^%! This is caused in all small barreled 9mm even the Kahr when you limp wrist the gun while firing plain and simple. Go to the Kel Tec owners group at yahoo and check with the 2000 plus owners there you will not find this complaint. Soory if this post sounds angry but I HATE it when someone makes flagrantly false statements about a particular weapon, especially when they did nothing to determine if they were the cause of the problem themselves. As a former military handgun instructor I can say that improper grasp of the weapon it usually the cause of over half the complaints gun owners have of their weapons. The Kel-Tec P11 has its problems most stem from the short grip, to solve this Kel Tec offers a grip extender to replace the baseplate of the magazine. My advise.....get a grip.....A firm one on your weapon....point it down range.....dont be afraid when it fires....maintain your grip, and you will find the spent brass ejects from the port as designed.

K.M. Janks

Logs · March 28, 2005, 03:12 PM

I had a Keltec 9mm and hated it. Tough trigger and it wasn't very accurate. I paid the extra and went to a Glock 26.

fastbolt · March 28, 2005, 04:23 PM

What's your anticipated 'need' and purpose for buying one of these 'inexpensive' little pistols, anyway?

Why are you limiting your choice to just those two makes/models?

I can't speak to the Taurus. I haven't handled and shot one, nor have I seen one come through any of our agency Qualification Courses or CCW classes & qualifications ...

I have seen some P-11's come through both, though ... and at last count, of the five I've seen come through the various courses, only one of them have completed a course of fire without exhibiting at least a few malfunctions.

I have no idea what that means, however, and it might very well have been caused more by the shooters than the actual pistols. As I recall they were all using various factory ammunition, and at least one of the folks who experienced several feeding malfunctions did so with W-W 147gr PP ammunition, and was reasonably trained and experienced with shooting handguns (he was a "special' person).

I do suspect that the really diminutive, polymer-framed pistols are more susceptible to shooter-induced issues than larger pistols. Particularly, and perhaps only coincidently, in the case of the reasonably trained 'special' shooter, he only experienced the malfunctions when shooting the P-11 1-handed, and his problems disappeared when he started shooting it 2-handed. It makes you wonder ...

What's wrong with a G26 or a CS9? Or even a PM9? Okay, the PM9 is another subject, and I'm not 'recommending' them. The only owner of a PM9 who I've personally known ... another firearms instructor ... eventually sold his new PM9 after he repeatedly experienced functioning issues during different ranges sessions. He returned to carrying his USP Compact 9mm and S&W M36 as off duty weapons.

Just curious.

Rusty Jr · March 28, 2005, 05:15 PM

I made a similar choice last month. I bought the Taurus (blue/black, not Ti) PT111 Mil Pro. It was only $25 more than the P11, almost the same grip height (of course the Ti will be somewhat more than what I paid). Of course the P11 is a little lighter, but not much, especially when compared to the Ti model.

I like the external safety on the PT111, in addition to the long DAO (but not as long as the Kel-Tec). No "fluff & buff" was needed on the Taurus, or the other Taurus, PT145 which I have. Both work just fine out of the box. Kel-Tecs have a long history of needing special care in some cases, while the current Mil Pro PT111 have had no such problems reported (early versions in '01 had polymer problems on the PT145, but that was corrected long ago, and not an issue with the Mil Pro).

glock19er · March 28, 2005, 06:00 PM

have one with over 750 rounds to count with no jam.works everytime even with wolf ammo.lot of people do fluff and buff to spead up the break in process with these handguns not because they dont work!!!they also have a great warranty on them.basically you got a handgun for life even if you wear it out they fix or replace it very fast even so faster than taurus.cant go wrong with them for price and good customer support from the company and the loyal followers on the keltec sites!!!

Bullrock · March 28, 2005, 07:27 PM

Taurus!

Rojoe67 · March 29, 2005, 06:35 PM

My biggest issue with the Taurus (was) the trigger......... never got 100% used to it. Seemed real long and strange feeling. My dad tried it and said the same thing before I ever brought up the issue. I decided to part ways with the Taurus. I might just snatch up a Kel-Tec. Sounds like a lot of folks like them for what they are. A light, concealable, affordable, great little tool for defense work. Good luck to you......

wow.........just saw the start date on this one.........guess that's going back into time

fastbolt · March 29, 2005, 06:46 PM

Yeah, I was sort of interested in what shifty had finally decided to buy, after seeing that KJanko had revived the post not quite 5 years later.

Guess we'll never know.

Anybody wanna take bets whether shifty still even owns what he finally bought?

Keltecnician · March 30, 2005, 02:43 AM

I have had good luck with Kel-Tecs, but have been generally impressed with the Tauri I have fired.

I would go to a range that rents pistols and try them both.
Run some ammo through them. See how they come up to target.
Strip them down, see how they carry, and then decide.

I can't help but point out that the difference in cost will buy a lot of practice ammo.

BTW, is the Taurus made in this country?

chris in va · March 30, 2005, 03:22 AM

No problems with my P11 so far, but I just got it a couple weeks ago. I'm very suprised how well it fits my large hands with the finger extension.

I understand the newer ones come with a 9# hammer spring, but this one feels more like 20#. There's gotta be some way to lighten up the pull a bit, maybe even shorten the trigger pull?

It'll be my summer carry weapon...

November 27, 2000, 07:16 PM	#2
rblack Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Posts: 293	Kel-Tec is much easier to take down and reassemble. I have the Kel-Tec and my father has the Taurus. Kel-Tec is quite a bit less expensive also. __________________ Rod Black

November 27, 2000, 10:31 PM	#4
Oleg Volk Staff Alumnus Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 7,022	While I like Kel-tec as a company... ...and love the P32, I had to get a refund for a P11. Mine would toss brass right in my face often enough to make it unusable. Apparently, almost all P11s eject haphazardly. I am not familiar with the Taurus offering but don't think it was perfect. Might you consider heavier but smaller Kahr MK9 or equally light if larger Kahr P9 (my choice) or even a Mustang Pocketlite?

November 28, 2000, 01:41 AM	#5
GIT_SOME.45 Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2000 Location: Oregon U.S.A. Posts: 233	Go Kel-Tec. JMHO Howard __________________ SHOOT,COMMUNICATE AND MOVE ON OUT !

November 29, 2000, 04:44 PM	#8
kingknives Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 1999 Location: SW Florida Posts: 214	Reveiw Here's a link to the reveiw I wrote on the side by side shooting of the Kel-Tec P-11 and Taurus PT-111. http://members.aol.com/kingstan/pt-111.htm

March 27, 2005, 10:34 AM	#11
KJanko Junior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Posts: 2	Kel Tec P 11 I am replying to the comment that apparently all P 11's toss brass haphazardly????? And he had to get a refund because of this! Bull&^%! This is caused in all small barreled 9mm even the Kahr when you limp wrist the gun while firing plain and simple. Go to the Kel Tec owners group at yahoo and check with the 2000 plus owners there you will not find this complaint. Soory if this post sounds angry but I HATE it when someone makes flagrantly false statements about a particular weapon, especially when they did nothing to determine if they were the cause of the problem themselves. As a former military handgun instructor I can say that improper grasp of the weapon it usually the cause of over half the complaints gun owners have of their weapons. The Kel-Tec P11 has its problems most stem from the short grip, to solve this Kel Tec offers a grip extender to replace the baseplate of the magazine. My advise.....get a grip.....A firm one on your weapon....point it down range.....dont be afraid when it fires....maintain your grip, and you will find the spent brass ejects from the port as designed. K.M. Janks

November 27, 2000, 06:52 PM	#1
shifty Junior Member Join Date: October 16, 2000 Posts: 3	Well crap! I had just decided on buying the Kel-Tec P11, when all of a sudden I come across the Taurus PT-111Ti. Now I need some information. Does anyone have both? How do they compare in terms of quality, reliability, price, and (most important) size? I have compared the specs on the Kel-Tec and Taurus websites and it looks like the Taurus is basically a clone of the Kel-Tec, but I did notice these differences: The Taurus is 2oz. heavier than the Kel-tec. The Taurus gun much better looking, and has a more refined/polished look. Any more info would be appreciated, especially about the size difference. I am also unfamiliar with Taurus as a company, how is their reputation? Thanks, -Shifty

November 27, 2000, 09:20 PM	#3
mikey357 Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2000 Location: Griffin, GA, USA Posts: 743	shifty-If it was me, I'd go with the Kel-Tec. I've got one-except for one "bobble" at around 75 rounds fired, I've had NO PROBLEMS with it. The one jam it did have was with Mrs. 3-5-7 shooting it-I wasn't able to duplicate it, so maybe she "limp-wristed" it??? Two guys at work both have Kel-Tecs and have nothing but good things to say about them. The Taurus polymer-framed autos have a reputation for "spotty" QC, at least in my part of the world...one may run fine, but the next one [or two, or three...] will be a jam-o-matic. Kel-Tec has a very good rep for product support and service, as does Taurus. I just happen to think you'd be better-seved by the Kel-Tec....mikey357

November 28, 2000, 11:20 AM	#6
kingknives Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 1999 Location: SW Florida Posts: 214	I wrote a comparison of these two when the Taurus first came out, shooting both side by side. I'll try to post it tonight when I get home. There was very little difference between the two, but in the end, I would go with the Kel-Tec.

November 28, 2000, 01:34 PM	#7
Ben Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,633	If you insist on the Ti version of the Taurus, then I would go with the Kel-Tec to save some money to buy lots of practice ammo to check it's reliability. Ben

November 29, 2000, 09:33 PM	#9
Marcus Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 1998 Posts: 1,156	Keltec, it`s lighter, easier to strip, less complex, uses & hi caps, factory belt clip, less gritty trigger....the list goes on. I have 4000+ rounds (I`ve lost count) through mine including lots of +Ps and cheap foreign ammo with 0 jams or problems. I wouldn`t trade it for 10 PT-111s. Marcus

November 30, 2000, 12:17 AM	#10
branrot Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: Miami Beach, FL, USA Posts: 1,367	I did the same research when I was looking at the 2 guns, and I went with the Kel Tec. While I've never shot the Taurus, I've shot other Tauruses (Taurii?), and was not impressed with their quality. In fairness, I've heard that the quality has improved. Anyway, I have the P11, and I've been very happy with it.

March 28, 2005, 03:12 PM	#12
Logs Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 1999 Location: BLUEGRASS STATE KY USA Posts: 1,780	I had a Keltec 9mm and hated it. Tough trigger and it wasn't very accurate. I paid the extra and went to a Glock 26.

March 28, 2005, 04:23 PM	#13
fastbolt Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2002 Location: northern CA for a little while longer Posts: 1,931	What's your anticipated 'need' and purpose for buying one of these 'inexpensive' little pistols, anyway? Why are you limiting your choice to just those two makes/models? I can't speak to the Taurus. I haven't handled and shot one, nor have I seen one come through any of our agency Qualification Courses or CCW classes & qualifications ... I have seen some P-11's come through both, though ... and at last count, of the five I've seen come through the various courses, only one of them have completed a course of fire without exhibiting at least a few malfunctions. I have no idea what that means, however, and it might very well have been caused more by the shooters than the actual pistols. As I recall they were all using various factory ammunition, and at least one of the folks who experienced several feeding malfunctions did so with W-W 147gr PP ammunition, and was reasonably trained and experienced with shooting handguns (he was a "special' person). I do suspect that the really diminutive, polymer-framed pistols are more susceptible to shooter-induced issues than larger pistols. Particularly, and perhaps only coincidently, in the case of the reasonably trained 'special' shooter, he only experienced the malfunctions when shooting the P-11 1-handed, and his problems disappeared when he started shooting it 2-handed. It makes you wonder ... What's wrong with a G26 or a CS9? Or even a PM9? Okay, the PM9 is another subject, and I'm not 'recommending' them. The only owner of a PM9 who I've personally known ... another firearms instructor ... eventually sold his new PM9 after he repeatedly experienced functioning issues during different ranges sessions. He returned to carrying his USP Compact 9mm and S&W M36 as off duty weapons. Just curious. __________________ Retired LE - firearms instructor & armorer

March 28, 2005, 05:15 PM	#14
Rusty Jr Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2000 Location: Mt. Vernon, IL Posts: 134	RE:Taurus I made a similar choice last month. I bought the Taurus (blue/black, not Ti) PT111 Mil Pro. It was only $25 more than the P11, almost the same grip height (of course the Ti will be somewhat more than what I paid). Of course the P11 is a little lighter, but not much, especially when compared to the Ti model. I like the external safety on the PT111, in addition to the long DAO (but not as long as the Kel-Tec). No "fluff & buff" was needed on the Taurus, or the other Taurus, PT145 which I have. Both work just fine out of the box. Kel-Tecs have a long history of needing special care in some cases, while the current Mil Pro PT111 have had no such problems reported (early versions in '01 had polymer problems on the PT145, but that was corrected long ago, and not an issue with the Mil Pro). __________________ "We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." Ronald Reagan, June 6th, 1984, Normandy France

March 28, 2005, 06:00 PM	#15
glock19er Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2005 Posts: 191	keltec p11 have one with over 750 rounds to count with no jam.works everytime even with wolf ammo.lot of people do fluff and buff to spead up the break in process with these handguns not because they dont work!!!they also have a great warranty on them.basically you got a handgun for life even if you wear it out they fix or replace it very fast even so faster than taurus.cant go wrong with them for price and good customer support from the company and the loyal followers on the keltec sites!!!

March 28, 2005, 07:27 PM	#16
Bullrock Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2004 Posts: 2,686	Taurus!

March 29, 2005, 06:35 PM	#17
Rojoe67 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: Wolverine State Posts: 767	Taurus issue..... My biggest issue with the Taurus (was) the trigger......... never got 100% used to it. Seemed real long and strange feeling. My dad tried it and said the same thing before I ever brought up the issue. I decided to part ways with the Taurus. I might just snatch up a Kel-Tec. Sounds like a lot of folks like them for what they are. A light, concealable, affordable, great little tool for defense work. Good luck to you...... wow.........just saw the start date on this one.........guess that's going back into time

March 29, 2005, 06:46 PM	#18
fastbolt Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2002 Location: northern CA for a little while longer Posts: 1,931	Yeah, I was sort of interested in what shifty had finally decided to buy, after seeing that KJanko had revived the post not quite 5 years later. Guess we'll never know. Anybody wanna take bets whether shifty still even owns what he finally bought? __________________ Retired LE - firearms instructor & armorer

March 30, 2005, 02:43 AM	#19
Keltecnician Member Join Date: March 29, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 27	I have had good luck with Kel-Tecs, but have been generally impressed with the Tauri I have fired. I would go to a range that rents pistols and try them both. Run some ammo through them. See how they come up to target. Strip them down, see how they carry, and then decide. I can't help but point out that the difference in cost will buy a lot of practice ammo. BTW, is the Taurus made in this country?

March 30, 2005, 03:22 AM	#20
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	No problems with my P11 so far, but I just got it a couple weeks ago. I'm very suprised how well it fits my large hands with the finger extension. I understand the newer ones come with a 9# hammer spring, but this one feels more like 20#. There's gotta be some way to lighten up the pull a bit, maybe even shorten the trigger pull? It'll be my summer carry weapon...