MI passes CCW, MSU newspaper mocks it (pic)

Genso · January 9, 2001, 11:08 PM

As many of you know, Michigan just joined the rest of progressive states in the union and became the 33rd state to pass CCW legislation.
What ticks me off, and I knew it was coming, was all of the cry baby people and their uninformed and misguided complaining. It's especially disconcerting when it comes from people in positions to influence others: like those people in our school paper at Michigan State University.
The first day back at school this comic appeared in our widely read school paper:

http://www.statenews.com/comics/bili...date=978930000

That man is supposed to be Governor Engler. I barely ever read that liberal newspaper. You can see why.

What upsets me is that when it comes to an issue such as CCW, all the evidence clearly shows that when CCW passes in state after state, nothing bad happens. The sky does not fall down and there is not blood flowing in the streets. Our attorney general, Jenifer Granholm, even went so far as to say that the streets of MI would become like the streets of Bosnia if CCW was passed! This is so ignorant! Time and again it has been shown that the only significant side effect of CCW passing is that crime rates go down! Geesh.

USP45usp · January 10, 2001, 12:37 AM

You know what amazes me. The longer some kid goes to school (either government or liberal); they seem to become more stupid. You can tell that (some to most) 18 to 20 year olds aren't very intelligent - they have the right to vote and they vote themselves right out of their Rights. Why do they not see the stupidity:

18 - Old enough to vote; but can't purchase a legal product
a) A handgun
b) Alcohol

But, they can purchase ciggarettes

Old enough to join the service and go into infantry/Police work (mp/sp) but
a) Can fire a fully auto rifle but can't own one
b) can fire a 9mm handgun with a standard mag (15
rd) but can't purchase either
c) can die at the hands of some enemy but
1) can't purchase a handgun
2) can't drink alcohol
3) can't own the same type rifle he's using
to defend himself (fully auto)

Anyone see the "doh" factor here?

USP45usp

**4V50 Gary** · January 10, 2001, 12:44 AM

Oleg Volk's poster on Defense against Rape featuring condoms and a snub nose revolver comes to mind. That would be nice to print in the school newspaper.

brianidaho · January 10, 2001, 12:47 AM

Michigan has some really bad liberal newspapers. Is the Flint Voice still around?

Bri

MrBigglesworth · January 10, 2001, 01:17 AM

I loved the Oklahoma one that came out years ago.

It showed a man with a transparent spot through his jacket to let the reader know he had a gun. In the background it had a BG with a question mark above his head showing he is wondering if his potential victim is armed or not. Much prettier picture.

Jeff Thomas · January 10, 2001, 01:36 AM

... that political cartoonists become cartoonists because they can't string enough logical thoughts together in order to be a reporter ... even with the apparently lax standards of current rags.

Another favorite theory is that the rings of Saturn are made entirely of lost airline luggage ...

Regards from AZ

Bogie · January 10, 2001, 11:11 AM

Could someone who lives in the area (you'll have a bit more "pull" than us out of towners) please write the paper, and ask them why they're insulting their own neighbors? I mean, don't they think that MI folks are at least as bright and law abiding as folks in such horrid places as Florida or Texas? Because those places have allowed CCW for a long time, and that sorta thing hasn't happened there... Indignation is good - Short words, and just stressing one point is also good.

Dave R · January 10, 2001, 01:54 PM

Shoot, what is the URL for that great website with all the relevant statistics????? Someone help me out, here.

I would suggest a letter to the editor, quoting the gun-related deaths per 000,000 in:

a) States that have "shall issue" CCWs
b) States that have rigid gun control

Gun-related deaths are MUCH HIGHER in the states with rigid gun control than they are in states with CCW. THe statistics will be at the aforementioned, forgotten web site.

The point of the cartoon should be precisely reversed.

Genso · January 10, 2001, 02:53 PM

Thanks for the thoughtful replies, everybody.

I did in fact email the cartoonist just before originally posting this topic here. I was short and pleasant, but I basically let him know that the facts show just the opposite of what he illustrated, and that I would also be happy to talk with him on the CCW issue anytime he was willing.

If anybody can find the statistic site mentioned above that supports CCW with the specific numbers, I'll be happy to write the paper.

The cartoonist guy probably thrives off of the criticism he receives, if I had to guess. He is a bona fide liberal from what I can tell. Just today he made fun of George W. Bush...

http://www.statenews.com/comics/bili...date=979102800

... it makes me sick to think of how many easily influenced college students at this school of 40,000 take his cartoons to heart.

JWR · January 10, 2001, 03:49 PM

Genso, here's an experience of mine from the student newspaper while I was at the University of Georgia. After the '96 election, the paper had a big hoorah for Clinton winning despite the Republican lies. Their consolation statement for Dole was "at least now he can put that stupid pen down". I'm not sure if they knew he held a pen in his right hand because his right arm was withered from a WWII injury and he didn't want people to try to shake his right hand, but they got flamed bad. Here's the kicker; one of my room mates worked for the paper. He told me the opinion staff printed the letters opposing their view because they thought it would make the opposing writers look stupid. I told him it was having the opposite effect with all but the hippie wannabes on the English Studies builing lawn. Even at what you think of as a conservative Southern university the journalism and education departments are so full of kaka it makes your eyes water. Most of the student body took that paper cause it was free and had a crossword and cupons, not because they believed anything it said.
My point: most journalism students are gullible and ignorant. They'll probably print your letter, including verifiable data sources, because they don't think it's true and will make you look stupid. You'll reach a bunch of undecided people who are intelligent enough to appreciate the info.

Jeff OTMG · January 10, 2001, 03:54 PM

Hey Genso, don't try to confuse a liberal by bringing facts to a discussion (all the evidence clearly shows that when CCW passes in state after state, nothing bad happens). Showing them how obviously stupid they are really pisses them off.

treeprof · January 10, 2001, 04:59 PM

Genso - I spent 8 yrs at MSU (84-92), from my Jr year thru the end of my Ph.D and it looks like the State News is still full of the same left-wing pablum it always has been. In the old days, you could get a refund of various portions of your student fee by forgoing some activity, benefit, etc. Some of us used to do this for the State New's fee, and had to "promise" not to read the paper for that semester (quarter in those days) in return for getting our $$ back. You might see if that is still an option.

BTW, One of my good friends in the forestry dept., Prof. Carl Ramm, died in a freak accident at home just before Christmas. Was there anything abt that in the State News?

JWR, I am now in my 8th yr. of occasionally reading the Red and Black, which is almost as bad as State News.

moa · January 10, 2001, 05:59 PM

Hey, Genso, it us usually a big waste of time to try and argue with ignorance. And, if the the person you are trying to sway is an anti-gun ideologue, then it is even bigger waste of time.

If you are looking for beneficial concealed carry stats and info, why not get a copy of Prof. John Lott's book, "More Guns, Less Crime"? I think he just updated it with a recent edition. This book is probably the most informative source on the effects of concealed carry. You must have heard of this book, if not read it already.

Lott demonstrates through comprehensive research that concealed carry laws actually lowers crime. And, it is cost free to the State and public. Great arguing point.

By concealed carry laws, I am talking about "shall issue" laws like Florida, etc.

I live in Maryland. A concealed carry permit is very hard to get. Generally, only the "connected" get a permit. So, Maryland that hovered for years around number six in the country for high crime rates, has now catapulted itself to number four. This is under the watch of our anti-gun owner Governor, Lt. Governor (Kennedy clan) and Attorney General.

What an accomplishment from this bevy of professional, political hacks. :barf:

January 10, 2001, 12:44 AM	#3
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,840	Oleg Volk's poster on Defense against Rape featuring condoms and a snub nose revolver comes to mind. That would be nice to print in the school newspaper. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

January 10, 2001, 01:36 AM	#6
Jeff Thomas Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1998 Location: Texas Posts: 4,753	One of my favorite theories is ... ... that political cartoonists become cartoonists because they can't string enough logical thoughts together in order to be a reporter ... even with the apparently lax standards of current rags. Another favorite theory is that the rings of Saturn are made entirely of lost airline luggage ... Regards from AZ

January 10, 2001, 02:53 PM	#9
Genso Member Join Date: August 12, 2000 Location: MI Posts: 30	Thanks Thanks for the thoughtful replies, everybody. I did in fact email the cartoonist just before originally posting this topic here. I was short and pleasant, but I basically let him know that the facts show just the opposite of what he illustrated, and that I would also be happy to talk with him on the CCW issue anytime he was willing. If anybody can find the statistic site mentioned above that supports CCW with the specific numbers, I'll be happy to write the paper. The cartoonist guy probably thrives off of the criticism he receives, if I had to guess. He is a bona fide liberal from what I can tell. Just today he made fun of George W. Bush... http://www.statenews.com/comics/bili...date=979102800 ... it makes me sick to think of how many easily influenced college students at this school of 40,000 take his cartoons to heart.

January 9, 2001, 11:08 PM	#1
Genso Member Join Date: August 12, 2000 Location: MI Posts: 30	As many of you know, Michigan just joined the rest of progressive states in the union and became the 33rd state to pass CCW legislation. What ticks me off, and I knew it was coming, was all of the cry baby people and their uninformed and misguided complaining. It's especially disconcerting when it comes from people in positions to influence others: like those people in our school paper at Michigan State University. The first day back at school this comic appeared in our widely read school paper: http://www.statenews.com/comics/bili...date=978930000 That man is supposed to be Governor Engler. I barely ever read that liberal newspaper. You can see why. What upsets me is that when it comes to an issue such as CCW, all the evidence clearly shows that when CCW passes in state after state, nothing bad happens. The sky does not fall down and there is not blood flowing in the streets. Our attorney general, Jenifer Granholm, even went so far as to say that the streets of MI would become like the streets of Bosnia if CCW was passed! This is so ignorant! Time and again it has been shown that the only significant side effect of CCW passing is that crime rates go down! Geesh.

January 10, 2001, 12:37 AM	#2
USP45usp Junior member Join Date: May 17, 2000 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 3,427	You know what amazes me. The longer some kid goes to school (either government or liberal); they seem to become more stupid. You can tell that (some to most) 18 to 20 year olds aren't very intelligent - they have the right to vote and they vote themselves right out of their Rights. Why do they not see the stupidity: 18 - Old enough to vote; but can't purchase a legal product a) A handgun b) Alcohol But, they can purchase ciggarettes Old enough to join the service and go into infantry/Police work (mp/sp) but a) Can fire a fully auto rifle but can't own one b) can fire a 9mm handgun with a standard mag (15 rd) but can't purchase either c) can die at the hands of some enemy but 1) can't purchase a handgun 2) can't drink alcohol 3) can't own the same type rifle he's using to defend himself (fully auto) Anyone see the "doh" factor here? USP45usp

January 10, 2001, 12:47 AM	#4
brianidaho Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2000 Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID Posts: 446	Michigan has some really bad liberal newspapers. Is the Flint Voice still around? Bri

January 10, 2001, 01:17 AM	#5
MrBigglesworth Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 306	I loved the Oklahoma one that came out years ago. It showed a man with a transparent spot through his jacket to let the reader know he had a gun. In the background it had a BG with a question mark above his head showing he is wondering if his potential victim is armed or not. Much prettier picture.

January 10, 2001, 11:11 AM	#7
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	Could someone who lives in the area (you'll have a bit more "pull" than us out of towners) please write the paper, and ask them why they're insulting their own neighbors? I mean, don't they think that MI folks are at least as bright and law abiding as folks in such horrid places as Florida or Texas? Because those places have allowed CCW for a long time, and that sorta thing hasn't happened there... Indignation is good - Short words, and just stressing one point is also good.

January 10, 2001, 01:54 PM	#8
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	Shoot, what is the URL for that great website with all the relevant statistics????? Someone help me out, here. I would suggest a letter to the editor, quoting the gun-related deaths per 000,000 in: a) States that have "shall issue" CCWs b) States that have rigid gun control Gun-related deaths are MUCH HIGHER in the states with rigid gun control than they are in states with CCW. THe statistics will be at the aforementioned, forgotten web site. The point of the cartoon should be precisely reversed.

January 10, 2001, 03:49 PM	#10
JWR Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2000 Posts: 180	Genso, here's an experience of mine from the student newspaper while I was at the University of Georgia. After the '96 election, the paper had a big hoorah for Clinton winning despite the Republican lies. Their consolation statement for Dole was "at least now he can put that stupid pen down". I'm not sure if they knew he held a pen in his right hand because his right arm was withered from a WWII injury and he didn't want people to try to shake his right hand, but they got flamed bad. Here's the kicker; one of my room mates worked for the paper. He told me the opinion staff printed the letters opposing their view because they thought it would make the opposing writers look stupid. I told him it was having the opposite effect with all but the hippie wannabes on the English Studies builing lawn. Even at what you think of as a conservative Southern university the journalism and education departments are so full of kaka it makes your eyes water. Most of the student body took that paper cause it was free and had a crossword and cupons, not because they believed anything it said. My point: most journalism students are gullible and ignorant. They'll probably print your letter, including verifiable data sources, because they don't think it's true and will make you look stupid. You'll reach a bunch of undecided people who are intelligent enough to appreciate the info.

January 10, 2001, 03:54 PM	#11
Jeff OTMG Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: OKC, OK & Austin, Tx Posts: 3,707	Hey Genso, don't try to confuse a liberal by bringing facts to a discussion (all the evidence clearly shows that when CCW passes in state after state, nothing bad happens). Showing them how obviously stupid they are really pisses them off.

January 10, 2001, 04:59 PM	#12
treeprof Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2000 Posts: 587	Genso - I spent 8 yrs at MSU (84-92), from my Jr year thru the end of my Ph.D and it looks like the State News is still full of the same left-wing pablum it always has been. In the old days, you could get a refund of various portions of your student fee by forgoing some activity, benefit, etc. Some of us used to do this for the State New's fee, and had to "promise" not to read the paper for that semester (quarter in those days) in return for getting our $$ back. You might see if that is still an option. BTW, One of my good friends in the forestry dept., Prof. Carl Ramm, died in a freak accident at home just before Christmas. Was there anything abt that in the State News? JWR, I am now in my 8th yr. of occasionally reading the Red and Black, which is almost as bad as State News.

January 10, 2001, 05:59 PM	#13
moa Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2000 Posts: 667	Hey, Genso, it us usually a big waste of time to try and argue with ignorance. And, if the the person you are trying to sway is an anti-gun ideologue, then it is even bigger waste of time. If you are looking for beneficial concealed carry stats and info, why not get a copy of Prof. John Lott's book, "More Guns, Less Crime"? I think he just updated it with a recent edition. This book is probably the most informative source on the effects of concealed carry. You must have heard of this book, if not read it already. Lott demonstrates through comprehensive research that concealed carry laws actually lowers crime. And, it is cost free to the State and public. Great arguing point. By concealed carry laws, I am talking about "shall issue" laws like Florida, etc. I live in Maryland. A concealed carry permit is very hard to get. Generally, only the "connected" get a permit. So, Maryland that hovered for years around number six in the country for high crime rates, has now catapulted itself to number four. This is under the watch of our anti-gun owner Governor, Lt. Governor (Kennedy clan) and Attorney General. What an accomplishment from this bevy of professional, political hacks. :barf: