City can't sue dealers for gun use

USP45 · January 18, 2001, 09:56 AM

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...18/74938.shtml

City Can't Sue Dealers for Gun Use

NewsMax.com
Thursday, January 18, 2001
Gary, Ind., has lost its lawsuit blaming the handgun industry for crimes committed with guns. Instead, the judge advised, go after the criminals.
Opponents of Gary's effort to put a serious crimp in guns sold in Indiana being used by law-breakers contend the vast majority of dealers was being penalized for the acts of a small number.

According to the Associated Press:

Scot Thomasson, a resident agent of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, said 1.2 percent of all licensed gun dealers supply 57 percent of all firearms recovered from criminals.

The ATF calls Indiana a "source state" for firearms purchased legally and later used in crimes.

Thomasson said two of the nation's top 25 dealers are in Indiana's northwest area, where Gary is located. He did not identify them.

The ATF is investigating the movement of guns from legal purchasers to Chicago-area street gangs.

In August of last year, Gary had sued 21 gun manufacturers and distributors, five local dealers and three trade associations, accusing them of selling weapons to gang members and others not entitled to own them.

Mayor Scott King said the idea was to try to dry up the marketing of weapons to inner-city gangs.

Attorneys for the industry argued successfully that this was an unconstitutional intrusion on interstate commerce.

In dismissing Gary's suit, Superior Court Judge James Richards advised the city it would more usefully spend its time apprehending criminals and others who misuse handguns.

In Gary last year, handguns were involved in many of the 64 homicides and hundreds of other violent crimes.

The city had argued that guns are a public nuisance the city has a right to control.

Like several other large cities, Gary tried to force the handgun industry to reimburse public agencies for the cost of resolving gun-related crimes.

Expressing the view of many fellow gun-store owners, James Sheema said of the judge's ruling:

"It was expected. It followed the pattern of all the other suits that have come to court.

"I just hope they don't waste any more of the taxpayers' money."

MP Freeman · January 18, 2001, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Mayor Scott King said the idea was to try to dry up the marketing of weapons to inner-city gangs.

Allow me to rephrase this statement.

"Mayor Scott King said that the idea of young black men arming themselves and excercising their second amendment rights is dangerous to the stability of oppression that we are inflicting upon this particular group of individuals. How are we to intimidate and harass a group of people that might be able to defend themselves?"

Regards,
MP

Brett Bellmore · January 18, 2001, 12:50 PM

Another one bites the dust. But until we start getting damages for malicious and/or frivolous lawsuits, the war goes on, since the people bringing these suits regard even the imposition of legal costs on the firearms industry as a victory of sorts.

Oatka · January 18, 2001, 12:53 PM

"Superior Court Judge James Richards advised the city it would more usefully spend its time apprehending criminals and others who misuse handguns."
Another whiff of sanity - We need more judges like Richards.

He was re-elected with about 77% of the vote, so it looks like the citizens of Lake County are pretty happy with the guy.

There's no email that I can find, but if you want to thank the judge, he's at:
Phone: (219) 933-2880
Fax: (219) 933-2985

If you all wonder why I sound like a broken record on thanking or raising hell with these people it is because the Internet, like the rain, falleth on the just and unjust.

These officials used to operate in the dark, and the more people in these obscure but necessary positions are made aware that their actions are now being watched, the more they will have to clean up their act. That, to me, is the REAL power of the Internet.

I think the judge would be flabbergasted if he got 5 or 10 complimentary calls/faxes from throughout the Union. The locals can say "I am one of that 77% who is glad I voted for you because . . .". You KNOW that kind of response will get around the court, and maybe make the antis there pucker a little. They are no longer working in the dark.

Monkeyleg · January 18, 2001, 06:15 PM

The largest gun shop in Milwaukee is #1 in the nation in sales of guns to criminals. The owners are stand-up guys, and give the BATF and local PD full cooperation, including allowing them to stake out the store. With so many gun shops being run out of business, this is one of a handful left in the city and it's near gang turf. Hence the criminals.

Our mayor toyed with the idea of a lawsuit, but was advised by the BATF that the shop was actually helping. And, of course, Wisconsin has a frivolous lawsuit statute that awards the defendent an amount three times that sought by the plaintiff if the suit is ruled frivolous.

Dick

January 18, 2001, 12:50 PM	#3
Brett Bellmore Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 1999 Location: Capac, MI, USA Posts: 1,932	Another one bites the dust. But until we start getting damages for malicious and/or frivolous lawsuits, the war goes on, since the people bringing these suits regard even the imposition of legal costs on the firearms industry as a victory of sorts. __________________ Sic semper tyrannis!

January 18, 2001, 09:56 AM	#1
USP45 Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2000 Location: Peoples Commonwealth of Massachusetts Posts: 1,563	http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...18/74938.shtml City Can't Sue Dealers for Gun Use NewsMax.com Thursday, January 18, 2001 Gary, Ind., has lost its lawsuit blaming the handgun industry for crimes committed with guns. Instead, the judge advised, go after the criminals. Opponents of Gary's effort to put a serious crimp in guns sold in Indiana being used by law-breakers contend the vast majority of dealers was being penalized for the acts of a small number. According to the Associated Press: Scot Thomasson, a resident agent of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, said 1.2 percent of all licensed gun dealers supply 57 percent of all firearms recovered from criminals. The ATF calls Indiana a "source state" for firearms purchased legally and later used in crimes. Thomasson said two of the nation's top 25 dealers are in Indiana's northwest area, where Gary is located. He did not identify them. The ATF is investigating the movement of guns from legal purchasers to Chicago-area street gangs. In August of last year, Gary had sued 21 gun manufacturers and distributors, five local dealers and three trade associations, accusing them of selling weapons to gang members and others not entitled to own them. Mayor Scott King said the idea was to try to dry up the marketing of weapons to inner-city gangs. Attorneys for the industry argued successfully that this was an unconstitutional intrusion on interstate commerce. In dismissing Gary's suit, Superior Court Judge James Richards advised the city it would more usefully spend its time apprehending criminals and others who misuse handguns. In Gary last year, handguns were involved in many of the 64 homicides and hundreds of other violent crimes. The city had argued that guns are a public nuisance the city has a right to control. Like several other large cities, Gary tried to force the handgun industry to reimburse public agencies for the cost of resolving gun-related crimes. Expressing the view of many fellow gun-store owners, James Sheema said of the judge's ruling: "It was expected. It followed the pattern of all the other suits that have come to court. "I just hope they don't waste any more of the taxpayers' money." __________________ ~USP "[Even if there would be] few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights." -- Justice Scalia 1998

January 18, 2001, 12:53 PM	#4
Oatka Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: Nevada Posts: 3,119	"Superior Court Judge James Richards advised the city it would more usefully spend its time apprehending criminals and others who misuse handguns." Another whiff of sanity - We need more judges like Richards. He was re-elected with about 77% of the vote, so it looks like the citizens of Lake County are pretty happy with the guy. There's no email that I can find, but if you want to thank the judge, he's at: Phone: (219) 933-2880 Fax: (219) 933-2985 If you all wonder why I sound like a broken record on thanking or raising hell with these people it is because the Internet, like the rain, falleth on the just and unjust. These officials used to operate in the dark, and the more people in these obscure but necessary positions are made aware that their actions are now being watched, the more they will have to clean up their act. That, to me, is the REAL power of the Internet. I think the judge would be flabbergasted if he got 5 or 10 complimentary calls/faxes from throughout the Union. The locals can say "I am one of that 77% who is glad I voted for you because . . .". You KNOW that kind of response will get around the court, and maybe make the antis there pucker a little. They are no longer working in the dark.

January 18, 2001, 06:15 PM	#5
Monkeyleg Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2000 Posts: 4,621	The largest gun shop in Milwaukee is #1 in the nation in sales of guns to criminals. The owners are stand-up guys, and give the BATF and local PD full cooperation, including allowing them to stake out the store. With so many gun shops being run out of business, this is one of a handful left in the city and it's near gang turf. Hence the criminals. Our mayor toyed with the idea of a lawsuit, but was advised by the BATF that the shop was actually helping. And, of course, Wisconsin has a frivolous lawsuit statute that awards the defendent an amount three times that sought by the plaintiff if the suit is ruled frivolous. Dick