Quote of the Day!

WAGCEVP · February 12, 2001, 07:11 PM

Freedom has cost too much blood and agony to be relinquished at the cheap price of rhetoric.
-- Thomas Sowell

old_yout · February 13, 2001, 12:24 PM

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.
-Hubert H. Humphrey

AAChang · February 13, 2001, 10:58 PM

Common sense is not so common
-Voltaire

Kharn · February 14, 2001, 07:58 AM

"And by the way, Mr. Speaker, The Second Amendment is not for killing ducks and leaving Huey and Dewey and Louie without an aunt and uncle. It is for hunting politicians like (in) Grozney and in 1776, when they take your independence away."
Robert K. Dornen, U.S. Congressman. 1995

416Rigby · February 14, 2001, 09:11 AM

While most Americans would never dream of seizing money or property that belongs to a neighbor, many Americans see nothing wrong in giving government and politicians a mandate to do it for them.
- Linda Bowles -

Amelia · February 14, 2001, 09:12 AM

"One Thousand Victories in One Thousand Battles is Good. But To Gain Victory without fighting is a sign of Greatness" - Sun Tzu

ajaxinacan · February 14, 2001, 09:36 AM

"Formerly, we were plagued by crime. Today we are plagued by laws". ---Tacitus, Roman historian, 55-120 A.D.

**Came back in to edit my original post. Didn't have the wording quite right. Sorry. Above is the more proper translation.

[Edited by ajaxinacan on 02-14-2001 at 07:07 PM]

Jerry45 · February 14, 2001, 09:41 AM

I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
What I can do, I should do and, with the help of God, I will do! [Everett Hale]

mcneill · February 14, 2001, 10:54 AM

The Supreme Being gave existence to man, together with the means of preserving and beautifying that existence. He...invested him (man) with an inviolable right to personal liverty and personal safety.
- Alexander Hamilton

Gino · February 14, 2001, 12:17 PM

Seen on a drop zone in Washington:

If you're going to be stupid, you've got to be tough!

Doc Hudson · February 14, 2001, 01:22 PM

The Gentlemen cry "Peace, Peace!" but there is no Peace....Is Life so Dear or Peace so Sweet as to be Purchased with Dhains and Slavery? Almighty God Forbid it! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, Give me Liberty, or Give me Death!
Patrick Henry, 1775

Ironbarr · February 14, 2001, 02:04 PM

Quote:

When government becomes all things to all people, only the governors will have rights.
- IRONBARR

Okay, I just had to do it.

pax · February 14, 2001, 03:07 PM

Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did, and it never will. Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them,; and these will continue till they have resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they suppress. --
Frederick Douglas

justice4all · February 14, 2001, 07:32 PM

"I swear--by my life and my love of it--that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." John Galt in Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged."

falconer · February 14, 2001, 07:36 PM

"Love your country but never trust its government."
-- from a hand-painted road sign in central Pennsylvania

"The amount of intelligence on the Internet is a constant; unfortunately, the population keeps increasing." --unknown

Blessed is the Lord my Rock, who teacheth my hand to war and my fingers to fight. Psalm 144:1

"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence."- Sun Tzu

Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum
est" ("A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands")
Lucius Annaeus Seneca "the younger" ca. (4 BC - 65 AD)

Gaddis' Law: In any sufficiently extraordinary situation, one's propensity for getting screwed is inversely proportional

The important things are always simple.
The simple things are always hard.
The easy way is always mined.

Anything you do can get you shot, including doing nothing

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." ~George Orwell

No one can read our Constitution without concluding that the people who wrote it wanted their government severely limited; the words "no" and "not" employed in restraint of government power occur 24 times in the first seven articles of the Constitution and 22 more times in the Bill of Rights. -- EDMUND A. OPITZ

The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. -- THOMAS JEFFERSON (1781)

"The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms." - Samuel Adams

"Take your weapon with reluctance. Draw it with dread. Grieve for those who fall to your bullets. But make every shot count."-Robert Shea

Reality is an illusion that occurs due to lack of alcohol. --Anonymous

WAGCEVP · February 14, 2001, 08:20 PM

This will be clear if we grasp the principle of liberty. We must recall that the basic principle of liberty is freedom of choice, which saying many have on their lips but few in their minds.
-- Dante Alighieri

BillX · February 14, 2001, 08:26 PM

"What most of these people need is a good slap upside the head. What I don't need is any more lawsuits."
John Matusak

JimR · February 14, 2001, 08:52 PM

"The only good bureaucrat is one with a pistol at his head. Put it in his hand and it's good-by to the Bill of Rights."

H.L. Mencken

**Bud Helms** · February 14, 2001, 08:59 PM

A Bill of Rights that means what the majority wants it to mean is worthless. ~~ Justice Antonin Scalia

papercut · February 14, 2001, 09:03 PM

"A liberal is man too broad-minded to take his own side in a quarrel."
- Robert Frost

"What is a committee? A group of the unwilling, picked from the unfit, to do the unnecessary."
- Richard Harkness

"In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these."
- Paul Harvey

"The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one."
- Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf, 1933)

"What luck for the rulers that men do not think."
- Adolf Hitler

"It is to secure our rights that we resort to government at all."
- Thomas Jefferson (to Francois D'Ivernois, 1795)

"The will of the people... is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object."
- Thomas Jefferson (to Benjamin Waring, 1801)

"I may err in my measures, but never shall deflect from the intention to fortify the public liberty by every possible means, and to put it out of the power of the few to riot on the labors of the many."
- Thomas Jefferson (to John Tyler, 1804)

"It is more honorable to repair a wrong than to persist in it."
- Thomas Jefferson (Address to Cherokee Nation, 1806)

"Where the press is free, and every man able to read, all is safe."
- Thomas Jefferson (to Charles Yancey, 1816)

"We are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is left to combat it."
-Thomas Jefferson (To William Roscoe, 1820)

"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
- Carl Gustav Jung

"I am a jelly doughnut."
- John F. Kennedy (Speech in West Berlin, June 26, 1963)

Zander · February 14, 2001, 09:07 PM

"To sin by silence, when they should protest, makes cowards of men." -- Abraham Lincoln

We must take this advice to heart in these times.

12-34hom · February 14, 2001, 09:13 PM

What do a Tornado - Hurricane - and your ex-wife have in common???

Piss them off and they will all take your house. - Unknown.

Dennis · February 14, 2001, 10:26 PM

Papercut notes,
"I am a jelly doughnut."
- John F. Kennedy (Speech in West Berlin, June 26, 1963)
-----

No offense, but your JFK quote has been maliciously twisted.

Yes, there is (or at least "was") a pastry known as a "Berliner" - but it has
nothing to do with Kennedy's "... ich bin ein Berliner" comment.

I was there when JFK gave his speech. So were approximately one million
West Berliners. JFK gave his speech from a balcony of the Schoeneberg
Rathaus.

Berlin actually is a conglomerate of many small communities - one of which is
Schoeneberg. (Note also that "Rathaus" means City Hall rather than "rat
house.")

I'm not a JFK fan - but Ole Jack gave a perfect speech for the time and place
that day. I was proud of him and proud to be an American.

Months later, November 22, 1963, Berlin mourned the loss of our President.
West Berlin closed. I mean "closed." Stores, shops, gas stations, German
bars, virtually everything simply closed!

Only the low-class GI bars were open (so I was told

).
-----

Google has many references under the words “Kennedy” and “Berlin”.

http://www.nara.gov/exhall/originals/kennedy.html

“All free men, wherever they may live, are citizens of Berlin, and, therefore, as
a free man, I take pride in the words "Ich bin ein Berliner."
http://www.jax-inter.net/~cheryl/berlin.html
------
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/preside...cs/berlin.html
-----
Apparently some people insist on calling “Schoeneberg Platz” by the name
“Rudolph Wilde Platz.” The Berliners (people - not pastries) I lived with still
called the place “Schoeneberg Platz.”
http://www.wfu.edu/~zulick/454/berlin.html
------

When Germans say, “I am a Braunschweiger” they are not calling themselves
a smelly cheese.

When Germans say, “I am a Hamburger” .... well... you get the idea.

There's more, aber es ist zu viel hier zu schrieben.

Alles Gute!

Tschuess!

Dennis (Berlin: Nov 1960 - Apr 1964)

Oh, my wife and I were married in Berlin Zehlendorf in 1975. Perhaps that (and our
continuing friendship with some swell German friends) is why we feel obligated to defend
Kennedy’s Berlin speech and to justify Berliners’ affection for him.

[Edited by Dennis on 02-14-2001 at 11:03 PM]

Coronach · February 15, 2001, 12:47 AM

I was told it was like this:

To say 'I am a Berliner' as in 'I am a person from Berlin' you would say 'Ich bin Berliner.'

Adding the 'ein' in there changes the meaning from 'I am from Berlin' to 'I am a berliner', and a berliner is a jelly doughnut, not a resident of that great, divided city.

Is this correct? I have no idea. But I was told that by people who know far more german than I do, so I believed it.

Mike

Ich bin ein schweinhundt!

Der tintenfisch regeart nicht auf die gedankenkontrolle!

Oh yes, quotes? I'm rather fond of the one at the bottom:

Dennis · February 15, 2001, 07:14 AM

I no grammarian (sic

), even in English.
If that's the case (inserting "one" as an inappropriate indefinite article),
then (for the first time) I see their point.

However, IF that's the point, I consider it pedantic sophistry in the
extreme. The Berliners (native speakers, I would suspect

) accepted JFK’s
speech enthusiastically and his “Ich bin ein Berliner” comment (said BTW in a
pretty fair Berliner dialect) with cheering audible more than a mile away at the
Silverwings Club on Templehof Central Airport (where I was stationed).

The first time I heard the “jelly doughnut” translation was from a left-wing
hippy college professor (c. 1982). Oy! The stories I could tell! But I’ve
hijacked this thread too much already.

So let me give a quote....
-----

The exact quote is clouded in the mists of time. This is as close as I can
remember:

“If they attack us, we’ll all be dead in five minutes. There’s only one thing I’d
ask of you. When they send us to hell, arrive there with a dead Russian under
one arm and a dead East German under the other.”
-- W4 May (Aug 14, 1961, Berlin, Germany)

February 14, 2001, 09:12 AM	#6
Amelia Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2000 Location: Alabama, USA Posts: 248	:) "One Thousand Victories in One Thousand Battles is Good. But To Gain Victory without fighting is a sign of Greatness" - Sun Tzu

February 14, 2001, 09:41 AM	#8
Jerry45 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2000 Location: Metairie, Louisiana Posts: 890	I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. What I can do, I should do and, with the help of God, I will do! [Everett Hale] __________________ Guns are not dangerous! People are! RKBA!

February 14, 2001, 08:20 PM	#16
WAGCEVP Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2000 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,989	Mankind is at its best when it is most free. This will be clear if we grasp the principle of liberty. We must recall that the basic principle of liberty is freedom of choice, which saying many have on their lips but few in their minds. -- Dante Alighieri

February 14, 2001, 08:26 PM	#17
BillX Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2000 Location: Boilermaker Country, Indiana Posts: 131	"What most of these people need is a good slap upside the head. What I don't need is any more lawsuits." John Matusak __________________ "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." H.L. Mencken

February 14, 2001, 09:07 PM	#21
Zander Junior member Join Date: December 11, 2000 Location: Middle and East Tennessee, USA Posts: 2,059	From the 19th Century... "To sin by silence, when they should protest, makes cowards of men." -- Abraham Lincoln We must take this advice to heart in these times.

February 12, 2001, 07:11 PM	#1
WAGCEVP Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2000 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,989	Freedom has cost too much blood and agony to be relinquished at the cheap price of rhetoric. -- Thomas Sowell

February 13, 2001, 12:24 PM	#2
old_yout Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: somewhere in the sunny southeast Posts: 349	The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. -Hubert H. Humphrey

February 13, 2001, 10:58 PM	#3
AAChang Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2000 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 255	Common sense is not so common -Voltaire

February 14, 2001, 07:58 AM	#4
Kharn Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,531	"And by the way, Mr. Speaker, The Second Amendment is not for killing ducks and leaving Huey and Dewey and Louie without an aunt and uncle. It is for hunting politicians like (in) Grozney and in 1776, when they take your independence away." Robert K. Dornen, U.S. Congressman. 1995

February 14, 2001, 09:11 AM	#5
416Rigby Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 1999 Location: Virginia Posts: 450	While most Americans would never dream of seizing money or property that belongs to a neighbor, many Americans see nothing wrong in giving government and politicians a mandate to do it for them. - Linda Bowles -

February 14, 2001, 09:36 AM	#7
ajaxinacan Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2000 Location: New Mexico Posts: 436	"Formerly, we were plagued by crime. Today we are plagued by laws". ---Tacitus, Roman historian, 55-120 A.D. **Came back in to edit my original post. Didn't have the wording quite right. Sorry. Above is the more proper translation. [Edited by ajaxinacan on 02-14-2001 at 07:07 PM]

February 14, 2001, 10:54 AM	#9
mcneill Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2000 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 288	The Supreme Being gave existence to man, together with the means of preserving and beautifying that existence. He...invested him (man) with an inviolable right to personal liverty and personal safety. - Alexander Hamilton

February 14, 2001, 12:17 PM	#10
Gino Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: Lake City, FL USA Posts: 919	Seen on a drop zone in Washington: If you're going to be stupid, you've got to be tough!

February 14, 2001, 01:22 PM	#11
Doc Hudson Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2001 Location: Mississippi Delta Posts: 635	The Gentlemen cry "Peace, Peace!" but there is no Peace....Is Life so Dear or Peace so Sweet as to be Purchased with Dhains and Slavery? Almighty God Forbid it! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, Give me Liberty, or Give me Death! Patrick Henry, 1775

February 14, 2001, 03:07 PM	#13
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did, and it never will. Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them,; and these will continue till they have resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they suppress. -- Frederick Douglas

February 14, 2001, 07:32 PM	#14
justice4all Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2000 Location: Grand Junction, CO Posts: 327	"I swear--by my life and my love of it--that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." John Galt in Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged."

February 14, 2001, 07:36 PM	#15
falconer Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: somewhere Posts: 546	"Love your country but never trust its government." -- from a hand-painted road sign in central Pennsylvania "The amount of intelligence on the Internet is a constant; unfortunately, the population keeps increasing." --unknown Blessed is the Lord my Rock, who teacheth my hand to war and my fingers to fight. Psalm 144:1 "To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence."- Sun Tzu Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est" ("A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands") Lucius Annaeus Seneca "the younger" ca. (4 BC - 65 AD) Gaddis' Law: In any sufficiently extraordinary situation, one's propensity for getting screwed is inversely proportional The important things are always simple. The simple things are always hard. The easy way is always mined. Anything you do can get you shot, including doing nothing "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." ~George Orwell No one can read our Constitution without concluding that the people who wrote it wanted their government severely limited; the words "no" and "not" employed in restraint of government power occur 24 times in the first seven articles of the Constitution and 22 more times in the Bill of Rights. -- EDMUND A. OPITZ The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. -- THOMAS JEFFERSON (1781) "The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms." - Samuel Adams "Take your weapon with reluctance. Draw it with dread. Grieve for those who fall to your bullets. But make every shot count."-Robert Shea Reality is an illusion that occurs due to lack of alcohol. --Anonymous

February 14, 2001, 08:52 PM	#18
JimR Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 909	"The only good bureaucrat is one with a pistol at his head. Put it in his hand and it's good-by to the Bill of Rights." H.L. Mencken

February 14, 2001, 08:59 PM	#19
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	A Bill of Rights that means what the majority wants it to mean is worthless. ~~ Justice Antonin Scalia

February 14, 2001, 09:03 PM	#20
papercut Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Cobb County, Georgia, USA, near the Big Chicken Posts: 922	"A liberal is man too broad-minded to take his own side in a quarrel." - Robert Frost "What is a committee? A group of the unwilling, picked from the unfit, to do the unnecessary." - Richard Harkness "In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these." - Paul Harvey "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one." - Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf, 1933) "What luck for the rulers that men do not think." - Adolf Hitler "It is to secure our rights that we resort to government at all." - Thomas Jefferson (to Francois D'Ivernois, 1795) "The will of the people... is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object." - Thomas Jefferson (to Benjamin Waring, 1801) "I may err in my measures, but never shall deflect from the intention to fortify the public liberty by every possible means, and to put it out of the power of the few to riot on the labors of the many." - Thomas Jefferson (to John Tyler, 1804) "It is more honorable to repair a wrong than to persist in it." - Thomas Jefferson (Address to Cherokee Nation, 1806) "Where the press is free, and every man able to read, all is safe." - Thomas Jefferson (to Charles Yancey, 1816) "We are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is left to combat it." -Thomas Jefferson (To William Roscoe, 1820) "Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you." - Carl Gustav Jung "I am a jelly doughnut." - John F. Kennedy (Speech in West Berlin, June 26, 1963)

February 14, 2001, 09:13 PM	#22
12-34hom Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 1999 Location: Iowa - northeastern Posts: 1,810	What do a Tornado - Hurricane - and your ex-wife have in common??? Piss them off and they will all take your house. - Unknown.

February 14, 2001, 10:26 PM	#23
Dennis Staff Emeritus Join Date: November 23, 1998 Location: a small forest in Texas Posts: 7,079	Papercut notes, "I am a jelly doughnut." - John F. Kennedy (Speech in West Berlin, June 26, 1963) ----- No offense, but your JFK quote has been maliciously twisted. Yes, there is (or at least "was") a pastry known as a "Berliner" - but it has nothing to do with Kennedy's "... ich bin ein Berliner" comment. I was there when JFK gave his speech. So were approximately one million West Berliners. JFK gave his speech from a balcony of the Schoeneberg Rathaus. Berlin actually is a conglomerate of many small communities - one of which is Schoeneberg. (Note also that "Rathaus" means City Hall rather than "rat house.") I'm not a JFK fan - but Ole Jack gave a perfect speech for the time and place that day. I was proud of him and proud to be an American. Months later, November 22, 1963, Berlin mourned the loss of our President. West Berlin closed. I mean "closed." Stores, shops, gas stations, German bars, virtually everything simply closed! Only the low-class GI bars were open (so I was told ). ----- Google has many references under the words “Kennedy” and “Berlin”. http://www.nara.gov/exhall/originals/kennedy.html “All free men, wherever they may live, are citizens of Berlin, and, therefore, as a free man, I take pride in the words "Ich bin ein Berliner." http://www.jax-inter.net/~cheryl/berlin.html ------ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/preside...cs/berlin.html ----- Apparently some people insist on calling “Schoeneberg Platz” by the name “Rudolph Wilde Platz.” The Berliners (people - not pastries) I lived with still called the place “Schoeneberg Platz.” http://www.wfu.edu/~zulick/454/berlin.html ------ When Germans say, “I am a Braunschweiger” they are not calling themselves a smelly cheese. When Germans say, “I am a Hamburger” .... well... you get the idea. There's more, aber es ist zu viel hier zu schrieben. Alles Gute! Tschuess! Dennis (Berlin: Nov 1960 - Apr 1964) Oh, my wife and I were married in Berlin Zehlendorf in 1975. Perhaps that (and our continuing friendship with some swell German friends) is why we feel obligated to defend Kennedy’s Berlin speech and to justify Berliners’ affection for him. [Edited by Dennis on 02-14-2001 at 11:03 PM]

February 15, 2001, 12:47 AM	#24
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	CAUTION: Coronach does not speak German I was told it was like this: To say 'I am a Berliner' as in 'I am a person from Berlin' you would say 'Ich bin Berliner.' Adding the 'ein' in there changes the meaning from 'I am from Berlin' to 'I am a berliner', and a berliner is a jelly doughnut, not a resident of that great, divided city. Is this correct? I have no idea. But I was told that by people who know far more german than I do, so I believed it. Mike Ich bin ein schweinhundt! Der tintenfisch regeart nicht auf die gedankenkontrolle! Oh yes, quotes? I'm rather fond of the one at the bottom: __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

February 15, 2001, 07:14 AM	#25
Dennis Staff Emeritus Join Date: November 23, 1998 Location: a small forest in Texas Posts: 7,079	I no grammarian (sic ), even in English. If that's the case (inserting "one" as an inappropriate indefinite article), then (for the first time) I see their point. However, IF that's the point, I consider it pedantic sophistry in the extreme. The Berliners (native speakers, I would suspect ) accepted JFK’s speech enthusiastically and his “Ich bin ein Berliner” comment (said BTW in a pretty fair Berliner dialect) with cheering audible more than a mile away at the Silverwings Club on Templehof Central Airport (where I was stationed). The first time I heard the “jelly doughnut” translation was from a left-wing hippy college professor (c. 1982). Oy! The stories I could tell! But I’ve hijacked this thread too much already. So let me give a quote.... ----- The exact quote is clouded in the mists of time. This is as close as I can remember: “If they attack us, we’ll all be dead in five minutes. There’s only one thing I’d ask of you. When they send us to hell, arrive there with a dead Russian under one arm and a dead East German under the other.” -- W4 May (Aug 14, 1961, Berlin, Germany)