Backup needed!

[duck hunt]

Somebody help me out over at http://www.richmond.com. I'm posting as "Timmi," because that's the name I went by when I worked on this guy's city council campaign when I was 16. You can flog me for that later. For now, though, just jump in as you see fit.

[Gunslinger]

There you go Duck. I'm Unarmed over there. Attack!

(Some times the best approah is to illustrate to them just how foolish they sound.)

[scud]

LOL Gunslinger, the unfortunate thing is it sounds more reasonable and rational then the avg anti gunner.

[duck hunt]

sniff...I love you guys!

[TheBluesMan]

I chimed in too. Saw Apple a Day there also.

Thanks for the tip, duckhunt!

[duck hunt]

By the way, I wasn't going to mention it, but now she's asking for it...

"Katey" is Terry Rea's daughter (he's the columnist). It always irks me the way she jumps in to defend him as if she is just some random bystander who happens to agree with him. Oh well, at least she doesn't have anything intelligent to say, or it would be really annoying.

[Bill Barrett]

from the Richmond area to New York. I am in the process of obtaining my NY carry permit. If all goes well I should have it in 6 months. Until then I can't own or even go to a range and borrow a handgun. Only long guns till then. I need to get involved in NY and help get things changed.

Oh yeah, I responded to the richmond.com link as Bill Barrett.

[Dave R]

Posted as "Armed". We're here for you, Duck.

[Monkeyleg]

I posted over there, but misquoted the court case that ruled that felons could not be required to register guns. I quoted US vs. Haynes, but that's the ruling regarding police protection. What's the case name for the ruling on the Fifth?

Dick

[Betty]

Just posted. Doh! I spelled "vigilante" wrong, but oh well.

[Son Tao]

I just tried posting but it won't let me Seems like their server is overloaded or something lol

[Dave R]

Great post, rotl!

Did you see that the posters after you are trying to figure our which .357 you carry?

Now that's moving the thread in the right direction!

BTW, what DO you carry? S&W model 60? Ruger SP 101? A semi-auto in .357SIG?

[Bill Barrett]

Just went back to look and there is a poll there too and the anti's are ahead. Look under "gaining control".

[Betty]

http://www1.richmond.com/talkback/ta...703&rand=49331

The anti's are probably thinking I'm a complete gun nut now. Oh wait....I am!

[Bogie]

Not quite as admittedly hoplophobic, or knee-jerking...

[Christopher II]

What the heck, I dropped my $0.02...

Later,
Chris

[Joe Portale]

It took a while, but my post got through. I used my own name because I'm not backing up no more!

So, the Tucson TFL is layin' down covering and hazing fire for 'ya Duck_hunt.

[duck hunt]

I gotta say it again....you guys are just the greatest.

[Dave R]

Its nice to be "Armed", even if its just facts.

------------------------------------
DKD, in your rebuttal 3A you state:

"One thing you don't mention. The death and injury rate from *gunfire* in those countries has dropped dramatically. Less guns, less people get shot. Think there's a correlation there?"

I assume you refer to Australia and UK, which have banned and confiscated most all guns.

The death and injury rate from *gunfire* in those countries had NOT dropped.

I quote from Joe Dell in Australia:

"It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million. The first year results are now in:

* Australia-wide, Homicides are UP 3.2% since the ban went into effect.

* Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent!)

* In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now UP 300 PERCENT. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!)

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed".

[ajaxinacan]

I put in my two cents.

[Dave R]

Oops. Turns out my statistics were old and questionable (should've done better research), and I've been counter-attacked effectively. Apparently official stats seem to indicate gun control is working in Australia.

Can anyone point me to a better set of data?

-----------------------------------------------
Armed, I don't know who Joe Dell is, but the gun law he complains so bitterly about went into effect in 1996 and 1997. Guns were not confiscated but bought by the government from private owners, small consolation to you, I'm sure. Most importantly, his 12 month timeframe is woefully out of date.

Let's look at some more recent statistics, shall we? Let me quote from a more credible source. The following is cut and pasted directly from the Australia Bureau of Statistics website. Numbers for 1999 are the latest figures available.

<
The number of murder victims increased by 57 persons or 20%. Of the murder victims in 1999, 21 victims (6%) were accounted for by the discovery of 12 bodies in Snowtown, South Australia, and 9 victims related to two family murder/suicide incidents in Western Australia;

The number of assault victims rose by 2,699 persons or 2.1%;

The number of robbery victims decreased by 1,211 or 5.1%;

The number of victims for unlawful entry with intent (UEWI) and motor vehicle theft offences decreased by 18,777 (4.3%) and 1,722 (1.3%) respectively; and

The victims of other theft increased by 46,794 or 8.3%.>>

In a related report on crime in 1999 it is reported by the same agency that, "The number of robberies involving a firearm has also decreased to a seven-year low of 6.3 per cent compared to 16 per cent in 1993."

And finally, "A weapon was used in 64% of recorded murders and 79% of recorded attempted murders in 1999, a slight decrease from 1998 figures of 71% and 84% respectively. Weapon use in robbery also decreased from 46% in 1998 to 42% in 1999. The proportion of offences where a firearm was used decreased for both murder and robbery in 1999, but firearms use increased in attempted murders (from 19% in 1998 to 32% in 1999). The use of firearms in assaults and sexual assaults was less than 1% in both."

Wow, notice how often the word DECREASED is used. Interesting, huh?

The dramatic jump in the attempted murder category is interesting, but looking at the raw data, the number of attempted murder cases declined by 7.5% (387 to 358). (We should be so lucky in the US.)

Does this mean that Australians are perfectly safe, should not be alert and aware, and should not take reasonable precautions to protect themselves? NO! Of course not.

It does mean that the use and misuse of firearms as weapons poses less of a threat, however, because CERTAIN TYPES OF FIREARMS ARE NOT AS READILY AVAILABLE TO THE POPULATION AT LARGE.

And since Australia has virtually no gun industry to speak of, where do you think all the guns that they do have come from? That's right. Not satisfied with facilitating death and destruction in this country, the US gun industry is materially contributing to the destruction of lives in other countries, as well. One of our more reprehensible exports.

So, it looks like the gun laws in Australia *are* actually being effective. Looks like the criminals might even have to resort to boomerangs soon. What a surprise. Of course, the ones who have the most to lose are the ones who could make money from gun sales. They are also the ones squealing the loudest. My heart bleeds for them.

Now, is your source mis-informed or intentionally lying? I have no use for either.

Stop grasping at straws trying to defend the indefensible products of a dishonorable industry. If you have an ideological attachment to guns, fine, start a church. If you have something constructive to contribute to the effort to effectively decrease victimization by holding casual gun owners to the same rigid standards that responsible gun owners hold themselves to and keeping guns out of the hands of the criminals in the first place, then let's work together on some measures that will benefit us all.

The American gun industry depends on criminal commerce to survive. That's not my opinion, it's an undeniable economic reality. You, my friend, are a pawn in their game to stay in business, nothing more. Enjoy your life in the cult.

Anyone who is interested in details on the Australian Gun Buyback program can visit their website at http://www.gun.law.gov.au/Guns/

[Betty]

Right now I am so utterly disgusted at how the thread has degraded. Barf.

[johnbt]

Of course it's degraded. Except for some of the VCU and UR students, we're all out shooting or fishing and enjoying the weather.

If you need to get Terry Rea off of guns and gun control at some point, get him started on all of the things they used to blow up in the city when he was a kid. I like the story about the shed roof going straight up in the air before the walls fell out.

John

[duck hunt]

Yeah, John, this is the only subject that I ever get into it with Terry on -- oh, and capital punishment. That too.

I'm over there now, mixing it up with his daughter again. I don't know when to stop, do I?

[Dave R]

Just posted again, too, using the new statistics from the other "Australia" thread. I don't know when to quit either (but tomorrow's a vacation day for me, so I probably just did).