Columbine Parents on 60 minutes (transcript)

[dZ]

ED BRADLEY: (Voiceover) It's been two years since Columbine, and today many
people, especially some parents of the murdered children, still believe the
worst school massacre in American history might have been avoided if the
sheriff's department and the school authorities had done their jobs.

Ms. DAWN ANNA (Parent): If you're going to tell my child to stay put, you're
coming to get her, then either go in there and do something or take off the
uniform and find another job. But that day you were a cop, and that day you
chose to stand by and listen to homicide.

(Footage of SWAT team; crime scene; family members; helicopter)

BRADLEY: (Voiceover) By the time the first SWAT team was assembled and
geared up to enter the building, it was 12:06, 47 minutes after the shooting
had begun. While the crowd of reporters and worried parents grew outside the
school, students and teachers in Science Room 3 struggled to get help for
teacher Dave Sanders, who had been bleeding profusely since he was shot at
11:26.

Mr. BRUCE BECK (Stepparent): In the window, clearly visible from a
helicopter above, is a sign that says `One bleeding to death,' and you will
not go into the building to save Dave Sanders.

BRADLEY: Could be a trap, they say.

Mr. BECK: OK. Then you know right where the killers are, and you can go in
and find them.

...

Ms. NIELSON: He turned the gun straight at us and shot and, my God, the
window went out and the kid standing there with me--I think he got hit.

Unidentified Operator: OK. We've got help on the way, ma'am.

(End of excerpt)

BRADLEY: Did you think help was on the way?

Ms. NIELSON: Oh, yeah. Because I was on the phone to the operator. She says,
`Help is on the way.' And yeah, I thought, you know, they were going to be
there right away.

(Footage of computerized re-creation)

BRADLEY: (Voiceover) Police were at the school right away. Within five
minutes of the first shots fired, the sheriff's deputy assigned to work at
the school was in the west parking lot. He exchanged gunfire with Harris,
who retreated into the school.

Unidentified Officer: (From tape) Got a couple of shots off at the shooter
on the southeast end. It's a big gun.

Unidentified Dispatch: (From tape) Southwest side with a large weapon.
Attention all units, 71 is under fire. He advised the suspect just ran into
the building.

BRADLEY: (Voiceover) That deputy was soon joined by six other policemen who
took positions around the building. None of them entered the school, where
Harris and Klebold were heading toward the library, shooting in the halls
and throwing bombs into the cafeteria below.

(Footage of crime scenes)

Ms. NIELSON: As this was happening, we're hearing more shots. We're hearing
screaming, we're hearing kids running in the halls. The shooters' yelling.

...

(Photo of Kelly Fleming; footage of Don and DeeDee Fleming)

BRADLEY: (Voiceover) Sophomore Kelly Fleming usually spent her free time in
the library. Five months after the shootings, her parents, Don and DeeDee,
heard tapes of Patty Nielson's 911 call.

Ms. DEEDEE FLEMING (Parent): They were very difficult to listen to.

BRADLEY: And what did you hear on those tapes?

Ms. FLEMING: Terror. Complete horror.

(Excerpt from 911 tape)

Ms. NIELSON: Oh, God.

Unidentified Operator: Stay on the line with me.

Ms. NIELSON: Oh, God. Going to kill us all. Oh, God.

(End of excerpt)

Ms. FLEMING: I listen to those, I think from the beginning she's alive.
Kelly's alive. She's all right, she's waiting for--`Someone's going to
come,' she thinks, to get her, to help her, to save her. And I keep thinking
from minute to minute she's still alive, she's still alive. And then it hits
a point in the tape where she's dead.

BRADLEY: You said that when you heard those tapes, you began to doubt that
the sheriff's department had done everything it could to save those
children. What made you think that?

Ms. FLEMING: There was no one in that school that had a gun other than the
two killers. And no one pursued them. No one tried to engage them.

Mr. DON FLEMING (Parent): And in essence, they chased them into the school
and then let them just kill at will, knowing that they were killing.

Ms. FLEMING: For almost 20 minutes, she waited. Twenty minutes. That's a
long time for someone to have the opportunity to come in and make a
difference.

Ms. DAWN ANNA (Parent): I've set my timer, and sat in my kitchen ticking off
how long that is. It's an incredibly long time. I'm yet to be convinced that
something could not have been done in that length of time.

(Photo of group of Columbine students)

BRADLEY: (Voiceover) Lauren Townsend, the class valedictorian, was also
studying in the library that day. She also played on the volleyball team
coached by her mother, Dawn Anna.

Ms. ANNA: Lauren respected authority. I'm positive Lauren never doubted that
when an adult told her help was on the way, help was coming.

(Footage of police headquarters; a letter)

BRADLEY: (Voiceover) The Jefferson County sheriff's office declined to speak
with us, but in a letter, Sheriff John Stone described the Columbine attack
as a unique set of circumstances the magnitude of which no one had dealt
with before. He also cited some of the obstacles that kept his men from
entering the building right away, including bombs, booby traps, and a lack
of information about how many gunmen were in the school.

They say that they had to have a safe route in there to get to them. And
they weren't sure of what they had.

(Voiceover) Lauren's stepfather, Bruce Beck.

Mr. BRUCE BECK (Stepparent): But at the same time, they're listening to kids
being shot and murdered inside that library over a 911 call and their job is
to protect people.

Ms. ANNA: And if you're going to tell my child to stay put, you're coming to
get her, then either go in there and do something or take off the uniform
and find another job. But that day you were a cop, and that day you chose to
stand by and listen to homicide.

Mr. FLEMING: Ed, I don't know if you have children or not, but if you were
there and your child was in that school, whether you had a gun or not, you'd
have gone in after them.

BRADLEY: But if they had gone in after Harris and Klebold

Mr. FLEMING: I think it would have been com--totally different. Harris and
Klebold would have had different targets to shoot at.

BRADLEY: They would have been shooting at the cops instead of the kids.

Mr. FLEMING: At the cops. Instead they went into the library and took their
time. `Let's stop and reload. Let's tell a few jokes while we're reloading.'
They had no fear at that point that there was anybody that was going to
engage them.

(Footage of sheriff's headquarters, automobiles; a letter; Larry Glick)

BRADLEY: (Voiceover) In his letter, Sheriff Stone said that by taking
positions around the building and waiting for SWAT teams to arrive, his
officers were doing what they were trained to do. He said they responded
quickly, returned fire, deployed appropriately and safely extracted hundreds
of trapped and terrified students and teachers. He also asked us to talk to
Larry Glick, who directs a national organization that trains SWAT teams.

Mr. LARRY GLICK (SWAT Team Instructor): There's not one officer that I know
that responded there that would not have given his or her life for any child
or teacher in there.

BRADLEY: But just in terms of common sense, here's what you know. You've got
kids, dead and wounded, outside. You've got at least two shooters inside
with who knows how many unarmed kids. You've got armed cops outside. Aren't
those kids better off if the armed cops go inside? Isn't that just common
sense?

Mr. GLICK: They believed that they really had six to eight armed individuals
inside there. And they felt that it was more reasonable to wait
to--additional personnel responded to move in.

BRADLEY: What about the arguments that they make? We saw these two guys go
in, we don't know how many more are inside. We could have been outgunned.

Mr. FLEMING: That's their job. When you hear kids screaming, knowing that
they're being shot, want to talk about being outgunned? All my child had for
defense was a pencil in her hand.

[pax]

It bears repeating:

Ms. FLEMING: There was no one in that school that had a gun other than the two killers. And no one pursued them. No one tried to engage them.

And,

All my child had for defense was a pencil in her hand.

Gun-free schools cost lives. That simple.

Near weeping in outrage,

pax

[Drizzt]

It's just SOOOOO easy to sit back and blame the police after the fact when all the facts are in. I'm sure that it would have torn up those police on the scene to know what was going on inside the school, but not be able to do anything. For all the police knew at the time, if they had rushed in, it might have just added to the body count. With all the bombs Klebold and Harris were tossing around, how were they to know that they hadn't set some sort of a trap for law enforcement? When we look at the Sheriff Department's decision after the fact, their actions may appear a bit cold, but at the time, they probably made the best decision they could, based on the facts at hand.

[J. Williams]

First and overall response to this is that we CAN NOT imagine the fear and trama the students, faculty and law enforcement went through at the school.

But after reading this transcript, how does the subject of the Supreme Court rulings about police/law enforcement not being responsible for citizens safety play into this?

Along with Pax we repeat:

Ms. FLEMING: There was no one in that school that had a gun other than the two killers. And no one pursued them. No one tried to engage them.

Mr. FLEMING: That's their job. When you hear kids screaming, knowing that they're being shot, want to talk about being outgunned? All my child had for defense was a pencil in her hand.





[Edited by J. Williams on 04-20-2001 at 04:42 PM]

[buzz_knox]

All I can say is that the men on the scene wanted to go in. The administrators told them to stay put. How many would have been alive today if the pencil pushers had listened to the experts?

I agree with the mother. If you're not willing to put it on the line to save the innocent, the uniform needs to go to someone who is.

[Battler]

Let's keep in mind that the Columbine massacre WAS mostly avoided.

They had some plan rigged up wrt. propane tanks that failed, otherwise a LOT more people would have died.


Battler.

[Keiller TN]

It disturbed me, because there were apparent heros there. Sometimes there is a valiant individual in a situation like this who does not fear for his own life. But, then--I realize that it is 60 minutes, and I have to be cautious about what I believe from them.

[Monkeyleg]

I watched the episode as well, anticipating an all-out attack on guns. I certainly wasn't expecting an hour long attack on police but, after Cincinnatti, I guess cop-bashing is fashionable.

Dick

[Mute]

No one's blaming cops, but I'M blaming those politicians posing as cops who make decisions that prevent their men from doing their jobs.

Call it armchair quarterbacking if you wish, but if there is shooting still taking place, all bets are off and officers should have been sent in.

The people who made the decision not to go in, didn't do it for the greater good, but to cover their own @$$#$ in case things didn't go well. So if some people think this is cop bashing, boo f#@$ing hoo.

[Charmedlyfe]

Yeah. Blame the kids too. They didn't do anything but cower under tables and let themselves be shot. If you're gonna die, die with your boots on.