I can't make up my mind!

Tamara · May 20, 2001, 07:35 AM

Dear Abby,

Yesterday we got a Springfield Ultra-Compact V-10 traded in. It's "bi-tone" (as Springfield calls it) and has been ramped and throated by a competent gunsmith, along with the installation of a heavier recoil spring and a quick touch-up on the trigger. I don't own any 1911's at this time. Every time I walk past this gun in the showcase, choirs of angels sing. I have leather that will fit this gun already at home from my last small 1911 (a Galco SOB and a Bianchi Askins Avenger). In short, I have got the hots for this little pistol in the worst possible way, and I'm already fairly deep into the purchase rationalization process.

Here's the rub; I'd have to trade in my Beretta Border Marshal. It's got an ultra sweet trigger, thanks to the aforementioned competent pistolsmith waving a chicken foot over the internals and working his juju on the double action pull, especially.

Don't bother answering if you are going to say "buy both!" because that's not an option. If I want this V-10 (and I do, so badly that my teeth hurt) then the Border Marshal must go (and I don't want it to).

If I can't get some kind of vote out of the crowd here, I'll be forced to resort to flipping a coin or something...

Kaboom · May 20, 2001, 08:05 AM

Tamara having read your posts since finding this board, I haven't heard you mention having a Baretta. If you don't use it on a regular basis then to me it would be tradeing material. If the Springfield doesn't work out the Baretta might still be there. As your primary is your 29 I say trade, go shooting, and enjoy.

Ed Brunner · May 20, 2001, 08:30 AM

Get the Springfield and this old man agrees.

Gewehr98 · May 20, 2001, 10:06 AM

Check out the porting on both the barrel (internally, too) and slide. I've examined a few that had burrs and stray bits of metal from the operation. I'd seriously considered that small 1911 variant until I saw those manufacturing oopses. Granted, Springfield Inc probably got an earful from folks and takes better QC steps nowadays. But I went with my own Caspian Officer's ACP in the meantime. Don't forget, the ported Officer's ACP (V-10) is a exceptionally "bright" little bugger of a .45, with those upwards-facing vents. Choose as low a flash carry load as you can stomach, and be prepared. I had a friend try firing one from inside his car at night in a carjacking-type role, and it lit him up pretty good. So you do pay a sort of price for that reduced muzzle flip...

.357SIG · May 20, 2001, 10:16 AM

I'd hang on to that Beretta Border Marshal. Obviously, you hate the idea of losing it, so don't! If you end up trading it now, you'll be kicking yourself later when it's long gone and you want it back.

You don't have any other pistol (one you don't like as much) to trade in?

Redlg155 · May 20, 2001, 10:38 AM

In short, I have got the hots for this little pistol in the worst possible way, and I'm already fairly deep into the purchase rationalization process.

Hmmmm..it it love or lust? for love endures the test of time and lust stays for but a season.

Seriously, I know how you feel. Sometimes it feels like I'm giving away one of my kids when I have to trade in a gun. Whenever I see a new gun that I want badly, nothing can cure me until I have purchased or traded for my new love.

I kinda feel for you in a way. I know this sounds silly, but when I trade in one of my pistols I avoid the gunshop where I traded for at least a couple weeks until the pistol is sold. I can't stand to see one of my kids being sold! Now you are a different story, you are gonna have to see it everyday and perhaps even sell it..ack.

Get the V10, otherwise you will go nuts when someone buys it.

Good Shooting
RED

AR-10 · May 20, 2001, 10:57 AM

Tamara, you have sold and traded guns in the past. How do you feel about that? Do you wish you had them back? Any? All?

The reason I ask is that I have traded three firearms to get other firearms that I wanted. Two of those firearms that I let go, I want back. I will purchase the same models again some day, but at a higher price.

If you feel the same way about previous trades, then think carefully about whether you will regret trading the Baretta. If you won't miss it, great.

I'd like to have a V-10, too. Whether or not they are practical, I can't say. But they look so COOL!

hksigwalther · May 20, 2001, 11:09 AM

Hmmm. I dont' know, that's a tough call. Now if it where choirs of angels singing, clouds parting, and a bright light shines onto the gun, then I would say go for it.

eger precision · May 20, 2001, 11:44 AM

FWIW-

You will never find a more reliable gun than that pizza gun.

Whenever I see a compact SA traded in it usually is because it has been unreliable. Many of the shorter 1911's are notorius for problems.

Heres a vote for the Beretta.

BMWGS80 · May 20, 2001, 12:44 PM

Keep the Beretta.
A good reliable pistol you already have is better than one you think you want. I have had experience with the V-10. While I prefer Springfield 1911 clones this is one model I stay away from. Porting looks good but is not tacticaly sound. The other thought is, why was it traded in? As a full time gun store employee I see that most guns are traded because they do not work right. Don't get the idea that I am not a 1911 or SAA fan. I just traded all of my SIG pistols off and have gone back to my roots of 1911 (four) and P-35 (three) for carry. I carried a Colt MK-IV/70 lwCommander for 27 years in an Askins Avenger. Personal preference to simplify my life.

Also it is not like you cannot save up to get a V-10 if you realy want one. Just be patient. Keep what works and aticipate the addition of something you want later.

Good Luck,

ts

Jason Demond · May 20, 2001, 03:10 PM

As much as I like the 1911 design, I wouldn't trade the Beretta for it. I had a Springfield V10 and was not impressed with it and ended selling it to get something else.

BobCA · May 20, 2001, 04:10 PM

Why give up a gun your comfortable and happy with. 1911's for me have been touch & go, even Springfields & Kimbers. The Beretta 96 Brigadier is an excellent gun that gets little respect. My vote is to keep it.

44rugerfan · May 20, 2001, 04:24 PM

The grass is usually greener on the other side. The next gun on my "to buy" list was an AK-47 clone. I wanted one Veeeery Baaadly. My brother-in-law brought his over this weekend, and while it is a good gun and fun to shoot, I realized that a 22lr would do everything I had planned for the AK, and cheaper, and better. I'm not saying not to buy the Springfield, but be sure.

M16 · May 20, 2001, 04:35 PM

Until your financial condition improves I would suggest you keep what you have. I have found that when you save your money you can take advantage of good deals when they come your way. Good Luck.

Tamara · May 20, 2001, 05:26 PM

I am now the proud owner of a Springfield V-10.

I know where there's a deal on a Beretta Border Marshal with a sweet trigger job in the box with 4 magazines...

**JohnKSa** · May 20, 2001, 07:45 PM

I've tried selling Beretta 92s before and always end up buying an identical one to replace it eventually.

Problem is, they keep going up in price and the mags get more expensive and harder to find.

You should have at least kept the mags...

**Mike Irwin** · May 20, 2001, 08:41 PM

Why in God's name do you want a V-10?

With a barrel that short, you can likely THROW the bullets faster.

IMHO, a .45 with a short barrel isn't much of a handgun at all.

When your slug is exiting the barrel at 650 fps (chrono results I've seen for 230gr. Hydrashoks out of a similar shortie), you're getting a whopping 215 footpounds of energy.

Wow.

That's certainly NOT the .45 we know, love, and fear.

That's more along the lines of .455 Webley.

Hard Ball · May 20, 2001, 09:25 PM

You did the right thing Tamara. A high quality 1911 is a thing of beauty and something you can bet your life on!

1911Ford · May 21, 2001, 01:32 AM

You will be sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
.
.
.
.
That you didnt get another 1911 sooner!!!
Good Choice.

CSAY · May 22, 2001, 07:26 AM

I agree with the "you'll be sorry" crowd. Every time I have traded something that I wanted to keep,I regretted it. I also agree with another post,concerning the short barrel. The short barrel 1911's lose too much velocity,therefore rendering JHP's useless.

Master Blaster · May 22, 2001, 08:14 AM

Hi Tamara I would get the Border Marshall back pronto.
Plead temporary insanity. I had a V-10 bought used previous owner had a trigger job and Heine slant pro sights put on it. The v-10 was only accurate with 185 grain Hydrashok +P. The Blast and flash was like a smack on the forehead, which is where half the brass hit me after it bounced off the ceiling every time I fired it. It jammed frequently (5 times per 50 rounds) with every kind of ammo. If you had to use it for self defense you would be deaf for a week because its louder than a .357 mag snubbie. You wont notice the recoil reduction because of the noise and flash.
I own 2 fullsize .45 1911's and the full size is the only way to go. If you want a compact .45 get a glock 30.
The v-10's get adoptetd for a while and then traded by disappointed owners just search the board and you will see.
I traded mine in about a month ago on a Beretta Inox 92 FS compact. I was thrilled when the gunshop owner agreed to swap me + $75.00.
The v-10 is not a good target gun and not a good defense gun.
It is a useless novelty there was no room for it in my collection.

Get a box of ammo shoot it and you will agree.

Sorry.

ArmySon · May 22, 2001, 08:50 AM

Congrats on the Springfield! While it loses quite a bit of velocity with 230 grain bullets, why shoot the 230 grain bullets then? The 165 and 185 grain +P hollow points will more then suffice for a defensive load.

Muzzle flash and recoil is a bit harsh with +P loads but knowing you and your 10mm, that shouldn't be an issue

buzz_knox · May 22, 2001, 09:32 AM

Sell the Beretta to your roomie, and buy the SA. Then, the next payday, when said roomie is tired of the Beretta, buy it back at a discount (since it's had multiple owners).

RWK · May 22, 2001, 09:42 AM

Tamara,

I believe you made the right decision. For someone of your obvious competence and experience in firearms not to have a high-quality 1911A1 "type" is, at least, unusual. IMHO, Springfield makes excellent firearms -- I could not be happier with my TRP or my "Loaded" -- and the .45 ACP round really remains a world-wide standard for proven effectiveness.

Best regards.

**Mike Irwin** · May 22, 2001, 10:14 AM

Even velocity with 185s is really marginal out of the V-10s short barrel.

165s I'm not familiar with...

May 20, 2001, 07:35 AM	#1
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	Dear Abby, Yesterday we got a Springfield Ultra-Compact V-10 traded in. It's "bi-tone" (as Springfield calls it) and has been ramped and throated by a competent gunsmith, along with the installation of a heavier recoil spring and a quick touch-up on the trigger. I don't own any 1911's at this time. Every time I walk past this gun in the showcase, choirs of angels sing. I have leather that will fit this gun already at home from my last small 1911 (a Galco SOB and a Bianchi Askins Avenger). In short, I have got the hots for this little pistol in the worst possible way, and I'm already fairly deep into the purchase rationalization process. Here's the rub; I'd have to trade in my Beretta Border Marshal. It's got an ultra sweet trigger, thanks to the aforementioned competent pistolsmith waving a chicken foot over the internals and working his juju on the double action pull, especially. Don't bother answering if you are going to say "buy both!" because that's not an option. If I want this V-10 (and I do, so badly that my teeth hurt) then the Border Marshal must go (and I don't want it to). If I can't get some kind of vote out of the crowd here, I'll be forced to resort to flipping a coin or something... __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

May 20, 2001, 08:05 AM	#2
Kaboom Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2000 Location: North Mo. Posts: 640	Tamara having read your posts since finding this board, I haven't heard you mention having a Baretta. If you don't use it on a regular basis then to me it would be tradeing material. If the Springfield doesn't work out the Baretta might still be there. As your primary is your 29 I say trade, go shooting, and enjoy. __________________ If gun control laws are just why shouldn't term limits be just? Both would be for the same purpose of controlling a dangerous item because of careless use.

May 20, 2001, 08:30 AM	#3
Ed Brunner Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1998 Location: Natchez, MS, USA Posts: 2,562	Aand Abby says.... Get the Springfield and this old man agrees. __________________ MOLON LABE UNTIL IT'S OVER! Ed

May 20, 2001, 10:06 AM	#4
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	Look over that V-10 closely. Check out the porting on both the barrel (internally, too) and slide. I've examined a few that had burrs and stray bits of metal from the operation. I'd seriously considered that small 1911 variant until I saw those manufacturing oopses. Granted, Springfield Inc probably got an earful from folks and takes better QC steps nowadays. But I went with my own Caspian Officer's ACP in the meantime. Don't forget, the ported Officer's ACP (V-10) is a exceptionally "bright" little bugger of a .45, with those upwards-facing vents. Choose as low a flash carry load as you can stomach, and be prepared. I had a friend try firing one from inside his car at night in a carjacking-type role, and it lit him up pretty good. So you do pay a sort of price for that reduced muzzle flip... __________________ "Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round... Neural Misfires

May 20, 2001, 11:09 AM	#8
hksigwalther Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1998 Location: NE OH, USA Posts: 3,198	"...choirs of angels sing." Hmmm. I dont' know, that's a tough call. Now if it where choirs of angels singing, clouds parting, and a bright light shines onto the gun, then I would say go for it. __________________ - Ron V.

May 20, 2001, 10:16 AM	#5
.357SIG Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 1999 Posts: 1,023	I'd hang on to that Beretta Border Marshal. Obviously, you hate the idea of losing it, so don't! If you end up trading it now, you'll be kicking yourself later when it's long gone and you want it back. You don't have any other pistol (one you don't like as much) to trade in?

May 20, 2001, 10:38 AM	#6
Redlg155 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2001 Location: NW Florida Posts: 2,307	In short, I have got the hots for this little pistol in the worst possible way, and I'm already fairly deep into the purchase rationalization process. Hmmmm..it it love or lust? for love endures the test of time and lust stays for but a season. Seriously, I know how you feel. Sometimes it feels like I'm giving away one of my kids when I have to trade in a gun. Whenever I see a new gun that I want badly, nothing can cure me until I have purchased or traded for my new love. I kinda feel for you in a way. I know this sounds silly, but when I trade in one of my pistols I avoid the gunshop where I traded for at least a couple weeks until the pistol is sold. I can't stand to see one of my kids being sold! Now you are a different story, you are gonna have to see it everyday and perhaps even sell it..ack. Get the V10, otherwise you will go nuts when someone buys it. Good Shooting RED

May 20, 2001, 10:57 AM	#7
AR-10 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2001 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,182	Tamara, you have sold and traded guns in the past. How do you feel about that? Do you wish you had them back? Any? All? The reason I ask is that I have traded three firearms to get other firearms that I wanted. Two of those firearms that I let go, I want back. I will purchase the same models again some day, but at a higher price. If you feel the same way about previous trades, then think carefully about whether you will regret trading the Baretta. If you won't miss it, great. I'd like to have a V-10, too. Whether or not they are practical, I can't say. But they look so COOL!

May 20, 2001, 11:44 AM	#9
eger precision Member Join Date: December 3, 2000 Posts: 99	FWIW- You will never find a more reliable gun than that pizza gun. Whenever I see a compact SA traded in it usually is because it has been unreliable. Many of the shorter 1911's are notorius for problems. Heres a vote for the Beretta. __________________ Kevin Guns are a lot more fun as a hobby than as a business

May 20, 2001, 12:44 PM	#10
BMWGS80 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 1999 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 288	Keep the Beretta. A good reliable pistol you already have is better than one you think you want. I have had experience with the V-10. While I prefer Springfield 1911 clones this is one model I stay away from. Porting looks good but is not tacticaly sound. The other thought is, why was it traded in? As a full time gun store employee I see that most guns are traded because they do not work right. Don't get the idea that I am not a 1911 or SAA fan. I just traded all of my SIG pistols off and have gone back to my roots of 1911 (four) and P-35 (three) for carry. I carried a Colt MK-IV/70 lwCommander for 27 years in an Askins Avenger. Personal preference to simplify my life. Also it is not like you cannot save up to get a V-10 if you realy want one. Just be patient. Keep what works and aticipate the addition of something you want later. Good Luck, ts

May 20, 2001, 03:10 PM	#11
Jason Demond Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 1999 Location: Mivonks, Michigan Posts: 1,846	As much as I like the 1911 design, I wouldn't trade the Beretta for it. I had a Springfield V10 and was not impressed with it and ended selling it to get something else. __________________ "ACCEPT NOTHING LESS THAN FULL VICTORY!" General Dwight D. Eisenhower June 6, 1944 ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

May 20, 2001, 04:10 PM	#12
BobCA Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2000 Location: So Calif., USA Posts: 111	Another for the Beretta. Why give up a gun your comfortable and happy with. 1911's for me have been touch & go, even Springfields & Kimbers. The Beretta 96 Brigadier is an excellent gun that gets little respect. My vote is to keep it. __________________ SIG Sauer P226- "wondernine" at its best. Beretta 96G Elite II- For getting "the most" out of a 40. Ruger P97- The "American Truck" approach to a American caliber. Remington 870 Marine Magnum- When none of the above will do.

May 20, 2001, 04:24 PM	#13
44rugerfan Senior Member Join Date: March 10, 2001 Posts: 277	The grass is usually greener on the other side. The next gun on my "to buy" list was an AK-47 clone. I wanted one Veeeery Baaadly. My brother-in-law brought his over this weekend, and while it is a good gun and fun to shoot, I realized that a 22lr would do everything I had planned for the AK, and cheaper, and better. I'm not saying not to buy the Springfield, but be sure. __________________ "Praise the Lord, and pass the ammuntion..."

May 20, 2001, 04:35 PM	#14
M16 Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 1999 Posts: 490	Until your financial condition improves I would suggest you keep what you have. I have found that when you save your money you can take advantage of good deals when they come your way. Good Luck.

May 20, 2001, 05:26 PM	#15
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	The angels kept singing... I am now the proud owner of a Springfield V-10. I know where there's a deal on a Beretta Border Marshal with a sweet trigger job in the box with 4 magazines... __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

May 20, 2001, 07:45 PM	#16
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,992	You'll be sooooorrreeeeee. I've tried selling Beretta 92s before and always end up buying an identical one to replace it eventually. Problem is, they keep going up in price and the mags get more expensive and harder to find. You should have at least kept the mags...

May 20, 2001, 08:41 PM	#17
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Why in God's name do you want a V-10? With a barrel that short, you can likely THROW the bullets faster. IMHO, a .45 with a short barrel isn't much of a handgun at all. When your slug is exiting the barrel at 650 fps (chrono results I've seen for 230gr. Hydrashoks out of a similar shortie), you're getting a whopping 215 footpounds of energy. Wow. That's certainly NOT the .45 we know, love, and fear. That's more along the lines of .455 Webley. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

May 20, 2001, 09:25 PM	#18
Hard Ball Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 1999 Location: California Posts: 3,925	You did the right thing Tamara. A high quality 1911 is a thing of beauty and something you can bet your life on!

May 21, 2001, 01:32 AM	#19
1911Ford Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2000 Posts: 224	You will be sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!111 . . . . That you didnt get another 1911 sooner!!! Good Choice.

May 22, 2001, 07:26 AM	#20
CSAY Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2001 Location: TX Posts: 157	I agree with the "you'll be sorry" crowd. Every time I have traded something that I wanted to keep,I regretted it. I also agree with another post,concerning the short barrel. The short barrel 1911's lose too much velocity,therefore rendering JHP's useless.

May 22, 2001, 08:14 AM	#21
Master Blaster Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: One of the original 13 Colonies Posts: 2,281	Hi Tamara I would get the Border Marshall back pronto. Plead temporary insanity. I had a V-10 bought used previous owner had a trigger job and Heine slant pro sights put on it. The v-10 was only accurate with 185 grain Hydrashok +P. The Blast and flash was like a smack on the forehead, which is where half the brass hit me after it bounced off the ceiling every time I fired it. It jammed frequently (5 times per 50 rounds) with every kind of ammo. If you had to use it for self defense you would be deaf for a week because its louder than a .357 mag snubbie. You wont notice the recoil reduction because of the noise and flash. I own 2 fullsize .45 1911's and the full size is the only way to go. If you want a compact .45 get a glock 30. The v-10's get adoptetd for a while and then traded by disappointed owners just search the board and you will see. I traded mine in about a month ago on a Beretta Inox 92 FS compact. I was thrilled when the gunshop owner agreed to swap me + $75.00. The v-10 is not a good target gun and not a good defense gun. It is a useless novelty there was no room for it in my collection. Get a box of ammo shoot it and you will agree. Sorry.

May 22, 2001, 08:50 AM	#22
ArmySon Staff Alumnus Join Date: April 14, 2000 Posts: 2,926	Congrats on the Springfield! While it loses quite a bit of velocity with 230 grain bullets, why shoot the 230 grain bullets then? The 165 and 185 grain +P hollow points will more then suffice for a defensive load. Muzzle flash and recoil is a bit harsh with +P loads but knowing you and your 10mm, that shouldn't be an issue

May 22, 2001, 09:32 AM	#23
buzz_knox Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 1999 Location: Knoxville, in the Free State of Tennesse Posts: 4,190	Sell the Beretta to your roomie, and buy the SA. Then, the next payday, when said roomie is tired of the Beretta, buy it back at a discount (since it's had multiple owners).

May 22, 2001, 09:42 AM	#24
RWK Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 1999 Location: Occupied Virginia Posts: 2,777	Tamara, I believe you made the right decision. For someone of your obvious competence and experience in firearms not to have a high-quality 1911A1 "type" is, at least, unusual. IMHO, Springfield makes excellent firearms -- I could not be happier with my TRP or my "Loaded" -- and the .45 ACP round really remains a world-wide standard for proven effectiveness. Best regards. __________________ __________________ Μολών λαβέ!

May 22, 2001, 10:14 AM	#25
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Even velocity with 185s is really marginal out of the V-10s short barrel. 165s I'm not familiar with... __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.