Not just a publicity stunt / Rio bulldozes 100,000 guns

AmericaFirst · July 6, 2001, 11:23 AM

Fair and objective reporting don't you think? They are coming for our guns and there is nothing apparently going to stop them.
Full text at URL.

Not just a publicity stunt
Rio bulldozes 100,000 guns in Brazil's biggest campaign against violent crimes
Jessica Galeria
Tuesday, July 3, 2001
San Francisco Chronicle

URL: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...03/ED28446.DTL

...if even one of those guns was destroyed instead of left inside someone's closet where it might be accidentally fired by a child, or used to irreversibly end a drunken argument, then the event was more than a publicity stunt.

The latest U.N. statistics show that firearms are involved in more than 80 percent of all homicides in Brazil, as well as the majority of its exceedingly high numbers of robbery and kidnapping.

Much of Brazil's notorious violence problem then is made possible by guns, exacerbated by easy access in thriving illegal markets. Destroying confiscated weapons is the one sure way to ensure that they cannot trickle back into the hands of criminals.

At the national level, legislation to permanently ban the sale of firearms to civilians has been stalled in congress for more than two years, rewritten so many times it retains little of its original stringency. In that time, more than 60,000 Brazilians have died as a result of firearm injuries, while a well- funded gun lobby continues to gain power.

But the Rio state government has, at least ostensibly, supported civil society disarmament efforts spearheaded by groups such as Viva Rio.

Rio Vice Gov. Benedita da Silva, one of the first black women in Brazil to hold such high office, even took part in the march.

"Combatting violence is one of the most urgent items on our agenda," she said, adding without a hint of irony that "we are not going to let this issue die."

jimpeel · July 6, 2001, 04:51 PM

Remember this one? http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...hlight=bazooka

AmericaFirst · July 7, 2001, 12:40 PM

EXCERPTS FROM:

Thursday June 22 2000 1:44 PM ET

Brazil Bans Firearms Sales

By STAN LEHMAN, Associated Press Writer

SAO PAULO, Brazil (AP) - Marco Aurelio Sprovieri is the owner of one of Sao Paulo's largest gun stores and cannot sell firearms.

``The government just declared my bankruptcy,'' Sprovieri said.

As part of a sweeping anti-crime package announced Tuesday, the government issued a decree forbidding issuing gun permits for six months in a nation where recent statistics say a killing takes place every 13 minutes.

The decree, which went into effect Wednesday, in effect imposes a nationwide ban on firearm sales, because nobody can buy a gun without a permit.

``This is not a six-month ban,'' Sprovieri said by phone. ``It's going to last forever, because the government can and will renew the decree until the law (on gun control) is passed.''

``Our store, which first opened its doors for business 75 years ago, will have to shut down. The government has wiped us out. It is really absurd. Criminals don't buy their weapons in stores.''

The decree suspends issuing of gun permits until Dec. 31, 2000, and exempts only the armed forces, and federal, state and municipal law enforcement agencies.

Norman Gall, executive director of the Fernand Braudel Institute of World Economics, a Sao Paulo-based think tank that has studied violence, agrees the decree ``will have absolutely no impact on diminishing crime.''

``Legally purchased weapons are not the problem,'' Gall said. ``The illegal ones, mostly bought on the contraband market are the problem.''

He said the ban could even increase the demand for illegal weapons ``like prohibition did with booze in the United States.''

``The ban may even increase crime rates because criminals could feel bolder knowing law-abiding citizens are unarmed,'' he said.

Brazilians own an estimated eight million guns, of which about six million are unregistered and mostly in the hands of criminals, government figures say.

Jeff Thomas · July 7, 2001, 02:50 PM

Quote:

City police are notoriously violent and inefficient, and studies show that reselling confiscated guns in illegal markets is a widespread practice.

Sounds like a group that should be the only ones left with the guns, right?

Quote:

Jessica Galeria is a Fulbright scholar studying gun violence in Brazil in collaboration with Viva Rio.

Well, at least the column is clearly marked 'Opinion'.

The superficial logic is inescapable ... fewer guns in the hands of civilians appears to mean less crime. Too bad the world doesn't work on superficial logic ...

They've clearly never heard of John Lott, or seen U.S. violent crime stat's falling while more and more state's 'grant' concealed carry.

Regards from AZ

labgrade · July 7, 2001, 04:00 PM

"Legally purchased weapons are not the problem,'' Gall said. "The illegal ones, mostly bought on the contraband market are the problem.''

A nit, but crucial to the argument - "illegal guns" aren't the problem either. Personnel-controlled object misuse is.

'Course, that goes for guns, matches, cars, cell phones, water, electricity, .... you do get the drift ....

Seems to me, it ain't any specific inanimate object's properties that is the problem, but more so how p-e-o-p-l-e can screw up with anything due to their own lack of responsibility or through willful disregard for others' rights.

Although when a microphone is stuck in your face (& obviously he's up against it re his business going down the tubes = upset) - unless pre-prep'd for "that soundbite," Gall has fallen into the trap of "illegal guns."

There is no such thing. Period. Illegal use - sure. & those that have been deemed to be "more regulated" by any said government that wants more control over your life. Oh, you can still have them, but The King must first look further up your butt while you get to pay a higher fee for owning the same thing their agents get for next to nothing ..... </rant>

This "illegal gun" thing has got to go.

AmericaFirst · July 7, 2001, 11:31 PM

Excerpts from:
Enter Stage Right
Brazil: Will it be the next Cuba?

By Paul M. Weyrich
web posted August 7, 2000

It isn’t just the economy that has been globalized. To some extent public policy has as well. For many decades the United States could ignore the internal policies of other nations, even in this hemisphere. Well, not any more. The policies that get adopted in one developed nation will end up spilling over into other developed and even developing nations as well.

That is why we should be concerned with what is happening in Brazil. In many ways, Brazil has become a lawless nation. Tourists or business people who go there, especially if they are away from the major cities, may well be the victims of one crime or the other. And the criminals are becoming ever more sophisticated. Recently Brazilian kidnappers responded to SWAT team helicopters with anti-aircraft weapons. Ordinary citizens have begun to live in fear in this great nation.

So what is to be done in a society where the police seem unable to keep order? Well, the federal Administration’s solution is...guess what? Gun control. In fact, Brazilian gun controllers go even further than the confessed aims of our gun controllers in the USA. By their own admission, legislation they introduced on June 20th has as its ultimate aim the complete disarmament of Brazilian society.

The public has reacted strongly against this measure. Some 77 per cent oppose the bill, but the government marches forward anyway. Brazil’s President, taking a leaf from Bill Clinton’s playbook, has issued what amounts to an executive order mandating a moratorium on gun sales. So even before the Brazilian Congress has a chance to act, the Administration is exerting pressure on Congress.

Those who spend time decrying the National Rifle Association in this country might wish they had such a lobby were they living in Brazil. Brazil has no second amendment to fight for nor has it any organized pro-gun committees. That means that the ordinary citizen, faced with increased violence, has no where to turn for help.

Well, almost nowhere, anyway. The Brazilian Society for Tradition Family and Property, which has never been into the gun issue before, has stepped forward and is organizing a grass roots coalition to fight this gun grab. Toward that end some officials of the Brazilian TFP, with help from the American TFP, have been in Washington learning the ropes from the gun lobbies in the USA. But time is short and they have such a long way to go.

Brazil borders every country in South America except for Chile and Ecuador. What happens to Brazil will spill over into other nations. It behooves us to help the Brazilian TFP fight the gun grabbers anyway we can. To reach the American TFP, which can direct you in how to be most effective in helping them fight against gun control, send an e-mail to noell@tfp.org or fax the TFP at 703-243-2105.

July 6, 2001, 11:23 AM	#1
AmericaFirst Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: USA Posts: 258	Not just a publicity stunt / Rio bulldozes 100,000 guns Fair and objective reporting don't you think? They are coming for our guns and there is nothing apparently going to stop them. Full text at URL. Not just a publicity stunt Rio bulldozes 100,000 guns in Brazil's biggest campaign against violent crimes Jessica Galeria Tuesday, July 3, 2001 San Francisco Chronicle URL: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...03/ED28446.DTL ...if even one of those guns was destroyed instead of left inside someone's closet where it might be accidentally fired by a child, or used to irreversibly end a drunken argument, then the event was more than a publicity stunt. The latest U.N. statistics show that firearms are involved in more than 80 percent of all homicides in Brazil, as well as the majority of its exceedingly high numbers of robbery and kidnapping. Much of Brazil's notorious violence problem then is made possible by guns, exacerbated by easy access in thriving illegal markets. Destroying confiscated weapons is the one sure way to ensure that they cannot trickle back into the hands of criminals. At the national level, legislation to permanently ban the sale of firearms to civilians has been stalled in congress for more than two years, rewritten so many times it retains little of its original stringency. In that time, more than 60,000 Brazilians have died as a result of firearm injuries, while a well- funded gun lobby continues to gain power. But the Rio state government has, at least ostensibly, supported civil society disarmament efforts spearheaded by groups such as Viva Rio. Rio Vice Gov. Benedita da Silva, one of the first black women in Brazil to hold such high office, even took part in the march. "Combatting violence is one of the most urgent items on our agenda," she said, adding without a hint of irony that "we are not going to let this issue die." __________________ "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - The Dalai Lama (May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times)

July 6, 2001, 04:51 PM	#2
jimpeel Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: Longmont, CO, USA Posts: 3,800	Remember this one? http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...hlight=bazooka __________________ Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey

July 7, 2001, 12:40 PM	#3
AmericaFirst Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: USA Posts: 258	Brazil Bans Firearms Sales EXCERPTS FROM: Thursday June 22 2000 1:44 PM ET Brazil Bans Firearms Sales By STAN LEHMAN, Associated Press Writer SAO PAULO, Brazil (AP) - Marco Aurelio Sprovieri is the owner of one of Sao Paulo's largest gun stores and cannot sell firearms. ``The government just declared my bankruptcy,'' Sprovieri said. As part of a sweeping anti-crime package announced Tuesday, the government issued a decree forbidding issuing gun permits for six months in a nation where recent statistics say a killing takes place every 13 minutes. The decree, which went into effect Wednesday, in effect imposes a nationwide ban on firearm sales, because nobody can buy a gun without a permit. ``This is not a six-month ban,'' Sprovieri said by phone. ``It's going to last forever, because the government can and will renew the decree until the law (on gun control) is passed.'' ``Our store, which first opened its doors for business 75 years ago, will have to shut down. The government has wiped us out. It is really absurd. Criminals don't buy their weapons in stores.'' The decree suspends issuing of gun permits until Dec. 31, 2000, and exempts only the armed forces, and federal, state and municipal law enforcement agencies. Norman Gall, executive director of the Fernand Braudel Institute of World Economics, a Sao Paulo-based think tank that has studied violence, agrees the decree ``will have absolutely no impact on diminishing crime.'' ``Legally purchased weapons are not the problem,'' Gall said. ``The illegal ones, mostly bought on the contraband market are the problem.'' He said the ban could even increase the demand for illegal weapons ``like prohibition did with booze in the United States.'' ``The ban may even increase crime rates because criminals could feel bolder knowing law-abiding citizens are unarmed,'' he said. Brazilians own an estimated eight million guns, of which about six million are unregistered and mostly in the hands of criminals, government figures say.

July 7, 2001, 04:00 PM	#5
labgrade Senior Member Emeritus Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,356	"Legally purchased weapons are not the problem,'' Gall said. "The illegal ones, mostly bought on the contraband market are the problem.'' A nit, but crucial to the argument - "illegal guns" aren't the problem either. Personnel-controlled object misuse is. 'Course, that goes for guns, matches, cars, cell phones, water, electricity, .... you do get the drift .... Seems to me, it ain't any specific inanimate object's properties that is the problem, but more so how p-e-o-p-l-e can screw up with anything due to their own lack of responsibility or through willful disregard for others' rights. Although when a microphone is stuck in your face (& obviously he's up against it re his business going down the tubes = upset) - unless pre-prep'd for "that soundbite," Gall has fallen into the trap of "illegal guns." There is no such thing. Period. Illegal use - sure. & those that have been deemed to be "more regulated" by any said government that wants more control over your life. Oh, you can still have them, but The King must first look further up your butt while you get to pay a higher fee for owning the same thing their agents get for next to nothing ..... </rant> This "illegal gun" thing has got to go.

July 7, 2001, 11:31 PM	#6
AmericaFirst Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: USA Posts: 258	Excerpts from: Enter Stage Right Brazil: Will it be the next Cuba? By Paul M. Weyrich web posted August 7, 2000 It isn’t just the economy that has been globalized. To some extent public policy has as well. For many decades the United States could ignore the internal policies of other nations, even in this hemisphere. Well, not any more. The policies that get adopted in one developed nation will end up spilling over into other developed and even developing nations as well. That is why we should be concerned with what is happening in Brazil. In many ways, Brazil has become a lawless nation. Tourists or business people who go there, especially if they are away from the major cities, may well be the victims of one crime or the other. And the criminals are becoming ever more sophisticated. Recently Brazilian kidnappers responded to SWAT team helicopters with anti-aircraft weapons. Ordinary citizens have begun to live in fear in this great nation. So what is to be done in a society where the police seem unable to keep order? Well, the federal Administration’s solution is...guess what? Gun control. In fact, Brazilian gun controllers go even further than the confessed aims of our gun controllers in the USA. By their own admission, legislation they introduced on June 20th has as its ultimate aim the complete disarmament of Brazilian society. The public has reacted strongly against this measure. Some 77 per cent oppose the bill, but the government marches forward anyway. Brazil’s President, taking a leaf from Bill Clinton’s playbook, has issued what amounts to an executive order mandating a moratorium on gun sales. So even before the Brazilian Congress has a chance to act, the Administration is exerting pressure on Congress. Those who spend time decrying the National Rifle Association in this country might wish they had such a lobby were they living in Brazil. Brazil has no second amendment to fight for nor has it any organized pro-gun committees. That means that the ordinary citizen, faced with increased violence, has no where to turn for help. Well, almost nowhere, anyway. The Brazilian Society for Tradition Family and Property, which has never been into the gun issue before, has stepped forward and is organizing a grass roots coalition to fight this gun grab. Toward that end some officials of the Brazilian TFP, with help from the American TFP, have been in Washington learning the ropes from the gun lobbies in the USA. But time is short and they have such a long way to go. Brazil borders every country in South America except for Chile and Ecuador. What happens to Brazil will spill over into other nations. It behooves us to help the Brazilian TFP fight the gun grabbers anyway we can. To reach the American TFP, which can direct you in how to be most effective in helping them fight against gun control, send an e-mail to noell@tfp.org or fax the TFP at 703-243-2105.