Selling handgun online - CYA!

Aahzz · October 3, 2001, 01:03 PM

I want to make sure my rear end is covered...just listed a pistol for sale on gunsamerica. I know I have to ship it to an FFL when it sells. Thus, I'm assuming I'll need said FFL to fax/send me a copy of the FFL...is there anything else I need to get to keep my butt covered?

blades67 · October 3, 2001, 01:27 PM

Make sure the copy that is sent to you is signed in ink. Also, you can go to the BATF web site and verify that the FFL is legitimate before you deposit any monies or ship the gun.

EOD Guy · October 3, 2001, 01:38 PM

Unless you are a licensee, you are not required to get a copy of the dealer's FFL but it is a good CYA. A certified (signed) copy should not be necessary if you veify the license at the BATF web site. You can do that at the following link: http://204.254.113.252/

mjustice · October 3, 2001, 01:49 PM

Make sure the FFL is real.

Many people insist on an ink-signed copy of the FFL that is mailed to them. You can then verify the number on the ATF site.

Since you are an "unlicensed person", you cannot send the handgun via USPS. While you can send it UPS, I say "vote with your feet" and use FedEx instead. You can ship handguns with their 'Priority Overnight' service.

If your state registers handguns, you may need to check their rules and regulations to make sure your properly "dispose" your firearm.

Stay Safe.

MJ

Seronac · October 3, 2001, 02:39 PM

You might also consider using an escrow service, which I would demand on anything over $50. One of them is Tradenable. (I am not associated with them, just a happy customer.)

What happens with an escrow service is that the buyer deposits the funds with the escrow service, and the seller ships the item. When the buyer receives and checks the item, they can then approve the release of the funds and the seller gets paid. If the buyer doesn't say one way or another, then the escrow service will go ahead release the funds after a certain number of days. If the seller does not ship the item, ships a wrong item, or an item that doesn't satisfy the buyer in some way, then the funds aren't released and they can go back to the buyer. The escrow service helps keep track of things along the way and can sguide you through the process.

Perhaps it protects the buyer more than the seller, but it seems to be safer and helps ensure that both parties are happy, which is a good thing.

Lennyjoe · October 3, 2001, 02:57 PM

Seronac, how much does the escrow service you provided charge for the transaction. Is the buyer as well as the seller charged a handling fee. If so, does it go buy amount of sale? Thanks

Lennyjoe · October 3, 2001, 03:01 PM

Never mind the last question. Went to the website.

sousana · October 3, 2001, 10:35 PM

I've been buying and selling guns online for years, If I'm not mistaken, the BATF requires you to obtain a signed in ink (blue/black) copy of the recipiant's FFL regardless. The only exception is for in-state sales as this can be conducted as a private sale. The person buying the gun should send you his dealers FFL along with a Postal Money order for the gun, all sent insured with return receipt. If the gun doesn't arrive the buyer can make a claim through the post office and they will investigate it as a mail fraud case. The BATF states that all guns shipped out of state must either be sent to the factory or a licensed dealer so you should be able to show proof should they come a knockin

As to the validity of the license, by all means verify it through the ATF's website, it's no big deal to scan a license into OCR and change the address and or license number or expiration date and reprint it. And be sure to ship it ONLY to the address listed on the license as: Licensed Premises, that would be directly below the expiration date.

EOD Guy · October 4, 2001, 08:28 AM

A certified copy of the FFL is only required for transfers between licensees. It's still a good idea to get one though. There is no particular requirement for ink color. Most licensees sign in a color other than black.

Ryan Meyering · October 4, 2001, 08:55 AM

Last time I sold a gun over the internet, the buyer's FFL, a gun shop, said I couldn't send the gun Fed Ex myself, that I'd have to go through a FFL on my end and pay him a fee to send the gun, in addition to the shipping charge. Was this correct? I just drove to the buyer's FFL rather than go through the extra hassle/expense of going through a FFL on my end.

Ryan

Robert the41MagFan · October 4, 2001, 10:43 AM

Ryan,

There is no clear answer on this issue! And, would highly recommend that anyone shipping a firearm out of state contact their "local" ATF office and get specific instructions. I've shipped many guns out of state and was instructed by our local AFT office that it must be in the form of a FFL to FFL transfer only. No exception. At the same time, I have purchased firearms and the guns have been sent directly to my FFL by the owner. They've talked to their local ATF office and have been instructed that that method used is OK.

Bottom line is making a simple phone call is a heck of a lot cheaper than having to hire an attorney.

Robert

EOD Guy · October 4, 2001, 11:31 AM

An FFL is not required on the sending end. The federal regulations clearly state that a nonlicensee may transfer a firearm to a licensee in another state. However, many dealer's either don't know this or don't care and insist that the firearm be sent to them through an FFL holder.

JNewell · October 4, 2001, 07:45 PM

As someone pointed out, there may be state law issues that make it either necessary or advisable to go FFL to FFL. Make sure you know what your state requires.

October 3, 2001, 01:03 PM	#1
Aahzz Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 1999 Location: CT Posts: 211	Selling handgun online - CYA! I want to make sure my rear end is covered...just listed a pistol for sale on gunsamerica. I know I have to ship it to an FFL when it sells. Thus, I'm assuming I'll need said FFL to fax/send me a copy of the FFL...is there anything else I need to get to keep my butt covered?

October 3, 2001, 01:27 PM	#2
blades67 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 1999 Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA Posts: 6,017	Make sure the copy that is sent to you is signed in ink. Also, you can go to the BATF web site and verify that the FFL is legitimate before you deposit any monies or ship the gun. __________________ Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat! I hunt, therefore I am.

October 3, 2001, 02:39 PM	#5
Seronac Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2000 Location: Utah, in the Good ol' US of A! Posts: 311	You might also consider using an escrow service, which I would demand on anything over $50. One of them is Tradenable. (I am not associated with them, just a happy customer.) What happens with an escrow service is that the buyer deposits the funds with the escrow service, and the seller ships the item. When the buyer receives and checks the item, they can then approve the release of the funds and the seller gets paid. If the buyer doesn't say one way or another, then the escrow service will go ahead release the funds after a certain number of days. If the seller does not ship the item, ships a wrong item, or an item that doesn't satisfy the buyer in some way, then the funds aren't released and they can go back to the buyer. The escrow service helps keep track of things along the way and can sguide you through the process. Perhaps it protects the buyer more than the seller, but it seems to be safer and helps ensure that both parties are happy, which is a good thing. __________________ * "In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children" * "It needs but one foe to breed a war, not two... And those who have not swords can still die upon them." JRRT, LotR Bk. 6, Ch. 5. * It is impossible for those without common sense to create "common sense guns laws." "Common sense" just isn't all that common.

October 3, 2001, 01:38 PM	#3
EOD Guy Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 1999 Location: Concord, CA, USA Posts: 647	Unless you are a licensee, you are not required to get a copy of the dealer's FFL but it is a good CYA. A certified (signed) copy should not be necessary if you veify the license at the BATF web site. You can do that at the following link: http://204.254.113.252/

October 3, 2001, 01:49 PM	#4
mjustice Member Join Date: September 12, 2001 Location: Nassau County, NY, US Posts: 93	Make sure the FFL is real. Many people insist on an ink-signed copy of the FFL that is mailed to them. You can then verify the number on the ATF site. Since you are an "unlicensed person", you cannot send the handgun via USPS. While you can send it UPS, I say "vote with your feet" and use FedEx instead. You can ship handguns with their 'Priority Overnight' service. If your state registers handguns, you may need to check their rules and regulations to make sure your properly "dispose" your firearm. Stay Safe. MJ

October 3, 2001, 02:57 PM	#6
Lennyjoe Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2001 Location: Sunny Tucson Arizona Posts: 1,097	Seronac, how much does the escrow service you provided charge for the transaction. Is the buyer as well as the seller charged a handling fee. If so, does it go buy amount of sale? Thanks

October 3, 2001, 03:01 PM	#7
Lennyjoe Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2001 Location: Sunny Tucson Arizona Posts: 1,097	Never mind the last question. Went to the website.

October 3, 2001, 10:35 PM	#8
sousana Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 167	I've been buying and selling guns online for years, If I'm not mistaken, the BATF requires you to obtain a signed in ink (blue/black) copy of the recipiant's FFL regardless. The only exception is for in-state sales as this can be conducted as a private sale. The person buying the gun should send you his dealers FFL along with a Postal Money order for the gun, all sent insured with return receipt. If the gun doesn't arrive the buyer can make a claim through the post office and they will investigate it as a mail fraud case. The BATF states that all guns shipped out of state must either be sent to the factory or a licensed dealer so you should be able to show proof should they come a knockin As to the validity of the license, by all means verify it through the ATF's website, it's no big deal to scan a license into OCR and change the address and or license number or expiration date and reprint it. And be sure to ship it ONLY to the address listed on the license as: Licensed Premises, that would be directly below the expiration date.

October 4, 2001, 08:28 AM	#9
EOD Guy Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 1999 Location: Concord, CA, USA Posts: 647	A certified copy of the FFL is only required for transfers between licensees. It's still a good idea to get one though. There is no particular requirement for ink color. Most licensees sign in a color other than black.

October 4, 2001, 08:55 AM	#10
Ryan Meyering Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: Los Angeles, CA USA Posts: 36	Last time I sold a gun over the internet, the buyer's FFL, a gun shop, said I couldn't send the gun Fed Ex myself, that I'd have to go through a FFL on my end and pay him a fee to send the gun, in addition to the shipping charge. Was this correct? I just drove to the buyer's FFL rather than go through the extra hassle/expense of going through a FFL on my end. Ryan

October 4, 2001, 10:43 AM	#11
Robert the41MagFan Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Posts: 1,233	Ryan, There is no clear answer on this issue! And, would highly recommend that anyone shipping a firearm out of state contact their "local" ATF office and get specific instructions. I've shipped many guns out of state and was instructed by our local AFT office that it must be in the form of a FFL to FFL transfer only. No exception. At the same time, I have purchased firearms and the guns have been sent directly to my FFL by the owner. They've talked to their local ATF office and have been instructed that that method used is OK. Bottom line is making a simple phone call is a heck of a lot cheaper than having to hire an attorney. Robert

October 4, 2001, 11:31 AM	#12
EOD Guy Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 1999 Location: Concord, CA, USA Posts: 647	An FFL is not required on the sending end. The federal regulations clearly state that a nonlicensee may transfer a firearm to a licensee in another state. However, many dealer's either don't know this or don't care and insist that the firearm be sent to them through an FFL holder.

October 4, 2001, 07:45 PM	#13
JNewell Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2000 Posts: 950	As someone pointed out, there may be state law issues that make it either necessary or advisable to go FFL to FFL. Make sure you know what your state requires.