Which Progressive?

pinetree · October 24, 2001, 07:39 AM

Picking out a press can be so confusing. It's hard to find a good description of what comes with the press.

I have Rockchucker and load 3 pistol calibers and 2 rifle.

The main reason I want a progressive is for 2 of the pistols, 44mag and 45acp, but wonder if I'd eventually want to do my rifles rounds.

Options (for 2 calibers):

$315 Dillion: Square Deal B Cost $250, Conv Kit $65
I asume it comes with a Powder Measure (?). What does the Quick Change Kit do (add another $65)? Are additional tool heads worth it (add another $21). It is limited to pistol. (The 550 would require new dies). Can reach $401.

$363 Hornaday: Lock-N-Load Cost $317, Shell Plates $23 (need 2 $46). Once again I asuume basic kit comes with Powder Measure. Will my RCBS dies work with the Lock-N-Load bushing system? Easy to change, inexpensive dies system that can load rifle.

$373 RCBS Pro2000: Cost $325, Die Plate $16, Star Wheel $6, 1 shell plate $26. (my 44mag from the piggy back is the same) I can load rifle. Has easy to change die plates. Uses existing dies and my one shell plate.

What do you guys think is the best bet? I'm leaning towards the RCBS. I know it is manually indexed, I like that.

Thanks,
tjg

Bottom Gun · October 24, 2001, 09:15 AM

I'd go with the Dillon 550 with an extra tool head.
I really like my 550. I also have a 450 which I've used for many years without any problems or breakages.
Dillon makes a great machine and their warranty is hard to beat.

swabjocky · October 24, 2001, 03:25 PM

i have used the blue press for years and the 550 s never failed me.i will highly recomend it.they have a good no bs policy. swabjocky

grunewaj · October 24, 2001, 07:21 PM

Guys,
I've just been having a similar discussion on rec.guns and here is what I think.

Hornady LnL AP can be had for just over $300 from Midway or Lock Stock & Barrel. Shell plates are about $20. The basic system comes with a powder measure and takes any standard die. The thing to watch for reloading pistol is if you use a crimper in station 5, it will hit the cartridge ejector unless you get Hornady dies. You don't HAVE to use the ejector spring, but it is faster. So far I like their dies so that is no hardship. For rifle, it shouldn't matter.

The Dillon powder measure expands the cartridge which is part of the reason for the caliber kit rather than just a shell plate. Hornady requires an expander die.

As you might have guessed, I have a LnL AP and I like it. Hornady has some nice accessories such as a micrometer powder measure adjustment. Dillon has a lot of nice geegaws for theirs, too. I think, but cannot prove, that Hornady is a little less expensive, but not by much.

Both the Hornady and Dillon are good presses. If you buy either one, you'll end up with a good press. Some people will tell you just to get Dillon, but I don't think they are then only game in town. Hornady's service is every bit as good as I hear Dillon's is.

Sorry I don't know much about the Pro2000.

Good luck,
Jim

knzn · October 24, 2001, 08:49 PM

No one system/brand is perfect, but going Dillon will save agravation in the future.
IMHO

swampgator · October 24, 2001, 10:04 PM

I don't know if RCBS still markets it, but they used to sell the "piggyback" a progressive conversion for the Rockchucker. Last time I priced one, 1997, was a little over $ 120 dealer cost. Worth looking into.
BUT I really, really like my 550, and the RCBS gets relegated to rifle and test loads.

Gary H · October 24, 2001, 11:07 PM

I suspect that every time this comes up, folks suggest what they own. I just started reloading a couple of months ago and have loaded 9mm, .40, .45 and soon to load .38, .223, .308 and 8mm Mauser. Some of this will be loaded more on my Rockchucker, but the rest will be assembled on the Pro 2000. Changing calibers is inexpensive and quick. The APS system has been very nice and relatively without problems. Very happy with my RCBS, but haven't used any other reloaders..except 12 & 20 ga.

Cal4D4 · October 25, 2001, 12:39 AM

I reload several pistol calibers on the Hornady. Strengths are the rotary powder measure and micrometer adjustable accessory, auto index and 5 stations. Weakness is priming and interference with separate crimper on ejection at station 5. After around 3k reloads (months ago) I gave up on the press primer. It would work about 80% of the time. It is not good enough for worry free use. Try the ergonomics of the press you are considering. Where do you reach into to add a case, seat a bullet and peek into a case to check powder? Cost difference (except for Lee) is not significant. I suspect the Dillon 550B is still the front runner but have never had a chance to use it. People swear by it. The Hornady is a collection of good ideas but IMHO it doesn't make it as a progressive. Priming on press is unreliable, ejection of finished round is unreliable - sometimes they stick or fling out - and some of the best die sets (like Redding) do not furnish a separate expander die.

grunewaj · October 25, 2001, 09:47 AM

Cal4D4,
At the moment, I only load .45 ACP and .40 S&W and I have not had the problem you have had with the primer. However, occasionally I do miss a primer, but it is pretty rare. I figure it is my fault because I put a wood dowel on top of my stack of primers to add weight. I have it marked so I can also tell when I'm out of primers. I have been told (by a Dillon user) that priming can be problematic on any press. I don't know if he meant that he sometimes has problems or that some Dillon users have problems.

The interference between the ejection spring and a crimp die in station 5 is pretty annoying. As I said earlier, Hornady has crimpers that work, but if you already have dies you either have to buy a new crimper or do without the spring. I got a set of Hornady .40 S&W dies that I like, so I'll probably get their pistol dies in the future.

I have found the problem you discribe with the ejection of the finished cartridge to be somewhat dependent on technique. I can't describe what the technique is, but if you cycle the press too slowly, that seems to make it jam more.

Your point on the expander die missing from some die sets is well taken, however I believe this is a problem if you get die sets for "progressive" presses. The manufacturer assumes you have a Dillon.

On the plus side for the LnL AP, I really like the micrometer powder measures and the powder delivery in general. I like the powder hopper empty nozzle, too. I also like the LnL bushings, but that is just personal preference.

Even with the annoyances I've had with my Hornady, I don't think I'd want a 550B. I can't imagine advancing by hand (maybe I'm too lazy, but I figure that's what the press is for - otherwise I'd get a single stage) and the XL650 is too expensive for the amount of reloading I do.

Just my $0.02.
Jim

Cal4D4 · October 25, 2001, 11:01 AM

I tried the dowel and it helped. Consistent problems with first primer in tube not being picked up, spotty priming in last 10 primers. Priming anvil snagged the shuttle and it broke. I hear ya on the ejection technique, but does not always work. Maybe a little roughness on a position or two on shell holders. Some of ejection problem built into the system per Hornady - the angle of approach defined by 5 stations at a given diameter.

Powder measure and hopper drain,as well as quick change features can't be beat. Haven't tried the Dillon and can not comment on their ergonomics. I use mine as a self indexing turret. Quick change bushings make this fairly easy. Speed is not that big of an issue.

Lack of reliable priming, ejection hang ups, interference at #5 with standard dies disqualify this setup as a progressive. Frustrating when the occasional finished round has no primer. Frustrating when the occasional finished round is sprung onto the ground. Frustrating when the occasional round hangs up and has to be helped out.

I know system can be made to work usually, but that is not good enough to depend on with priming.

grunewaj:
I am glad you are happy with yours. As I said, it is a collection of good ideas/features. I am being as honest with a person's inquiry as I can. Maybe the Dillon users are glossing over their problems. Hornady hypes their system as competitive with the Dillon 650. Until you read the owner's manual you don't know about the problems with the separate crimp dies. With the investment in press and shellplates that I have made, I just expected the press to work as advertised and designed. I use mine every week, but I also must prime separately. It is a well made auto indexing turret with nice features like the bushings and the powder measure. I have no ammo shortages and this is the least of my concerns in life.

slickpuppy · October 25, 2001, 11:46 AM

I have 2 Dillon 550s and my complaints are:

1. Cheesy powder measure adjustments. They need to get modern and have a micrometer click adjustment.

2. They need to offer an alternative to primer pickup tubes for primer feed.

3. They need to redesign the system to tighten down the shellplates. A bayonet system as used on camera lenses would be ideal instead of the bolt used currently.

4. Do away with the NEW chintzy white plastic washer on the powder return.

Other than those gripes the presses are great. They just need to modernize it a little.

grunewaj · October 25, 2001, 02:09 PM

Cal, I think you're right. Dillon users are going to talk about all the good things about their press, just as I like to talk about all the good things about my LnL AP. This really isn't a surprise since we each spent a fair piece of change and want to justify our purchase, at least to ourselves. As Slickpuppy points out, there are some rough spots in the Dillon press, too. I sent an email to Hornady saying they should cut the "trailing corner" off each position of the shell plate to ease ejection. I think that would work, but I can't afford to experiment right now.

I also think that Hornady should "adjust" their advertising a bit. They state that a new caliber kit is required for each different caliber and that's not true, at least any more. I also think that if you want to make ammo at a very high rate, you need an XL650, not a LnL AP or a 550B.
It does sound like you are having the same hassles with yours as I am having with mine, just more so. I hope you get your problems worked out.
Jim

Peter M. Eick · October 25, 2001, 03:13 PM

I use the Pro2000 for 2 reasons.

1) The aps primer system. There is nothing like just opening a box of primers and sliding them in. No feeding tubes or messing around.

2) The uniflow powder measure. Precise, repeatable and does not mind fine ball powders!

I would highly recommend the pro2000.

Clint Tickler · October 25, 2001, 06:19 PM

You've gotten a lot of input and hopefully you're not more confused. I've got the Dillon 650 next to my Rock Chucker and Lee Clallenger and pretty much am able to do everything I need for rifle and pistol. I think the 650 of course is a great machine. For the bucks I've got into it with the case feeder and tool heads if it didn't work well I'd have sent it back. All that being said I think you need to think about whether you want a progressive that is auto indexing (650) or non-auto indexing progressive. (550) I don't know about the others but that should narrow your choices. Good Luck!

grunewaj · October 26, 2001, 07:16 PM

Gang,
I found this thread about Dillon's presses and customer service. I post this not to bad mouth Dillon (the people posting on this thread still like Dillon even with their problems), but to show that any press can have rough spots (note the problems with primer loading).

I know this may not soothe your tempers if you are the one experiencing the problem, but maybe it will put it into perspective a little.
Jim
Click here for the link.

Cal4D4 · October 26, 2001, 07:48 PM

Thanks grunewaj!

Somehow I feel more in tune with the Universe now.

Kenneth L. Walters · October 26, 2001, 08:40 PM

I use to collect progressives. Probably had, and at least tried to use 36. Fun machines. Had just about every model from the 30's through the 80's. Of course progressives were introduced in the 1890's so I did miss the first 40 or so years of them.

When I sold my press collection, I debated hard and long which ones to keep, if any. Ultimately just let them all go, including the three you mentioned.

When the RCBS Pro 2000 came out I got one. Wonderful machines. That strip primer system is the best progressive primer system yet. When the Piggyback III came out, which also uses the strip primer system, I bought two. Very nice machines. I would certainly recommend these two over anything else I've used, including the Dillons of which I've probably owned 8+.

Dogjaw · October 28, 2001, 08:58 PM

I've had a Dillon 550 for over 9 years now. I won't trade it for anything. Saying that, it's pluses are it's durability, accuracy (Forget the claims about singles over progressives. I reload 250/3000 Savage that'll shoot 3 shot, 100 yard groups of 3/8"), the accuracy of the powder measure, auto primer feeder.
The improvements would be a scale on the powder measure to get the charge close.

If I set the powder charge at 32 grains of Win 748, it never changes. I'll check every 5th case and get exactly 32 grains. Do not use IMR powders in a Dillon powder measure. The cylinder shaped IMR powders shear off in the measure and will gum up the powder measure's slide. But then again, I've had so much good luck with Winchester ball powders, it's all I use.

locolife · October 28, 2001, 09:33 PM

Here is my $.02...

Started with a Rockchucker...

Then went to the Lee Pro 1000, sent it back 2 days later....

Then tried the RCBS Piggyback, sold it 2 weeks later after trying a friends Dillon...

Spent the extra loot (I probably spent the difference trying to get the others to work right) and got a Dillon 650. Its been 5 years now and the 650 is still working perfectly. I have only had to replace one part (which was free from Dillon) which broke due to a careless mistake on my part. Forget the rest and spend the extra $ on the 650, you will not regret it.

jtduncan · October 30, 2001, 01:41 AM

I load all of the below on a Dillon 550.

And its also manually indexing.

On the Square Deal, you may not have room to easily load 44 mag - tall cases.

Dillon 550 - call Dillon and ask, it's their best seller.

Dogjaw · October 30, 2001, 06:00 AM

On the RL550B, I reload the following with excellent results:
222 Rem
250/3000
30-30
308
30-06
38 spl
357 mag
9mm luger

There aren't too many progressive presses out there that'll handle both pistol and rifle. This one's the best solution. You won't have to buy another.

grunewaj · October 30, 2001, 09:25 AM

As far as I know, the Dillon Square Deal is the only progressive that won't load rifle (I could be wrong, though).

The Hornady LnL AP is the less expensive auto progressive between Dillon and Hornady and it will load both rifle and pistol ammo.

There's more to reloading presses than Dillon.

pinetree · November 1, 2001, 11:02 AM

I ordered the RCBS Pro2000 from Graf & Sons. RCBS has been good to me. I have all RCBS dies. The shell plate from my piggy-back, is 44mag and also fits my 30-06. I like the primer system.

I use to order exclusivley from Midway. When they started charging for shipping, I didn't notice any change in prices. G&S had a lower price and no shipping.

thanks,
tjg

grunewaj · November 1, 2001, 11:27 AM

Pinetree,
I'm not familiar with the RCBS line, except for their dies. I know they have presses, but I don't know much about their progressives. If it's as good as their Rock Chucker, it should be very good.

I know what you mean about the change in Midway's policy. I've read a lot of posts complaining about it. I know they've lowered the price on the Hornady LnL AP, in fact they're having a sale on them ($270) which is a great price. I don't mind the change in policy, though, because most places don't include shipping and it's easier to compare. I'll check out Graf & Sons. That sounds like it might be a good place. I've also done business at Lock Stock & Barrel. They don't pay for shipping, but they usually have good prices.

Keith J · November 1, 2001, 12:45 PM

To solve the Dillon measure problem, use a Lee Perfect measure with their universal powder die. It works fine with Dillon.

Priming problems are solved using the Dillon auto filler. You still have to transfer primers but it beats picking the up out of the tray.

Shell plates are the weakest link. I find the best way to eliminate "slop" is to tighten the main bolt to the point the plate will not turn. I then SNUB the brass-tipped setscrew on the main bolt shank. Not tight, just a friction fit.

I then loosen the main bolt until the plate will turn.

The bottlenecked dies from Dillon and Lee work well to extract stuck and partially derimmed cases. You do not need to remove the dies, just lower the depriming rod with the screw in the Dillon or loosen the collet and tap the rod free on the Lee until the case is free of the die. Then clean the chips from the shell plate, reinsert the case on the plate and give it a 90 degree turn to engage a undamaged portion of the rim. Tighten the collet if a Lee and lower the ram. Throw shell away, readjust the depriming stem and continue, making sure you have properly lubed your cases.

I only get a stuck case if I forget to lube at least every other case or the case was fired in an excessively large chamber...like a Glock.

October 24, 2001, 07:39 AM	#1
pinetree Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2001 Location: Cumming GA Posts: 626	Which Progressive? Picking out a press can be so confusing. It's hard to find a good description of what comes with the press. I have Rockchucker and load 3 pistol calibers and 2 rifle. The main reason I want a progressive is for 2 of the pistols, 44mag and 45acp, but wonder if I'd eventually want to do my rifles rounds. Options (for 2 calibers): $315 Dillion: Square Deal B Cost $250, Conv Kit $65 I asume it comes with a Powder Measure (?). What does the Quick Change Kit do (add another $65)? Are additional tool heads worth it (add another $21). It is limited to pistol. (The 550 would require new dies). Can reach $401. $363 Hornaday: Lock-N-Load Cost $317, Shell Plates $23 (need 2 $46). Once again I asuume basic kit comes with Powder Measure. Will my RCBS dies work with the Lock-N-Load bushing system? Easy to change, inexpensive dies system that can load rifle. $373 RCBS Pro2000: Cost $325, Die Plate $16, Star Wheel $6, 1 shell plate $26. (my 44mag from the piggy back is the same) I can load rifle. Has easy to change die plates. Uses existing dies and my one shell plate. What do you guys think is the best bet? I'm leaning towards the RCBS. I know it is manually indexed, I like that. Thanks, tjg

October 24, 2001, 03:25 PM	#3
swabjocky Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2001 Location: upstate sc Posts: 384	make mine the blue press i have used the blue press for years and the 550 s never failed me.i will highly recomend it.they have a good no bs policy. swabjocky

October 24, 2001, 07:21 PM	#4
grunewaj Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: North Carolina Posts: 133	Guys, I've just been having a similar discussion on rec.guns and here is what I think. Hornady LnL AP can be had for just over $300 from Midway or Lock Stock & Barrel. Shell plates are about $20. The basic system comes with a powder measure and takes any standard die. The thing to watch for reloading pistol is if you use a crimper in station 5, it will hit the cartridge ejector unless you get Hornady dies. You don't HAVE to use the ejector spring, but it is faster. So far I like their dies so that is no hardship. For rifle, it shouldn't matter. The Dillon powder measure expands the cartridge which is part of the reason for the caliber kit rather than just a shell plate. Hornady requires an expander die. As you might have guessed, I have a LnL AP and I like it. Hornady has some nice accessories such as a micrometer powder measure adjustment. Dillon has a lot of nice geegaws for theirs, too. I think, but cannot prove, that Hornady is a little less expensive, but not by much. Both the Hornady and Dillon are good presses. If you buy either one, you'll end up with a good press. Some people will tell you just to get Dillon, but I don't think they are then only game in town. Hornady's service is every bit as good as I hear Dillon's is. Sorry I don't know much about the Pro2000. Good luck, Jim __________________ The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can't get and to promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten, that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time is made good by looting A to satisfy B. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods. -- H. L. Mencken

October 24, 2001, 10:04 PM	#6
swampgator Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 1999 Location: Gatorville, Florida Posts: 619	I don't know if RCBS still markets it, but they used to sell the "piggyback" a progressive conversion for the Rockchucker. Last time I priced one, 1997, was a little over $ 120 dealer cost. Worth looking into. BUT I really, really like my 550, and the RCBS gets relegated to rifle and test loads. __________________ www.afn.org/~guns

October 25, 2001, 12:39 AM	#8
Cal4D4 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2001 Location: southern california Posts: 679	LNL User I reload several pistol calibers on the Hornady. Strengths are the rotary powder measure and micrometer adjustable accessory, auto index and 5 stations. Weakness is priming and interference with separate crimper on ejection at station 5. After around 3k reloads (months ago) I gave up on the press primer. It would work about 80% of the time. It is not good enough for worry free use. Try the ergonomics of the press you are considering. Where do you reach into to add a case, seat a bullet and peek into a case to check powder? Cost difference (except for Lee) is not significant. I suspect the Dillon 550B is still the front runner but have never had a chance to use it. People swear by it. The Hornady is a collection of good ideas but IMHO it doesn't make it as a progressive. Priming on press is unreliable, ejection of finished round is unreliable - sometimes they stick or fling out - and some of the best die sets (like Redding) do not furnish a separate expander die.

October 24, 2001, 09:15 AM	#2
Bottom Gun Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: Arizona Territory Posts: 1,092	I'd go with the Dillon 550 with an extra tool head. I really like my 550. I also have a 450 which I've used for many years without any problems or breakages. Dillon makes a great machine and their warranty is hard to beat.

October 24, 2001, 08:49 PM	#5
knzn Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2001 Location: Wichita, Kansas Posts: 125	No one system/brand is perfect, but going Dillon will save agravation in the future. IMHO

October 24, 2001, 11:07 PM	#7
Gary H Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 2,267	I suspect that every time this comes up, folks suggest what they own. I just started reloading a couple of months ago and have loaded 9mm, .40, .45 and soon to load .38, .223, .308 and 8mm Mauser. Some of this will be loaded more on my Rockchucker, but the rest will be assembled on the Pro 2000. Changing calibers is inexpensive and quick. The APS system has been very nice and relatively without problems. Very happy with my RCBS, but haven't used any other reloaders..except 12 & 20 ga.

October 25, 2001, 09:47 AM	#9
grunewaj Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: North Carolina Posts: 133	Cal4D4, At the moment, I only load .45 ACP and .40 S&W and I have not had the problem you have had with the primer. However, occasionally I do miss a primer, but it is pretty rare. I figure it is my fault because I put a wood dowel on top of my stack of primers to add weight. I have it marked so I can also tell when I'm out of primers. I have been told (by a Dillon user) that priming can be problematic on any press. I don't know if he meant that he sometimes has problems or that some Dillon users have problems. The interference between the ejection spring and a crimp die in station 5 is pretty annoying. As I said earlier, Hornady has crimpers that work, but if you already have dies you either have to buy a new crimper or do without the spring. I got a set of Hornady .40 S&W dies that I like, so I'll probably get their pistol dies in the future. I have found the problem you discribe with the ejection of the finished cartridge to be somewhat dependent on technique. I can't describe what the technique is, but if you cycle the press too slowly, that seems to make it jam more. Your point on the expander die missing from some die sets is well taken, however I believe this is a problem if you get die sets for "progressive" presses. The manufacturer assumes you have a Dillon. On the plus side for the LnL AP, I really like the micrometer powder measures and the powder delivery in general. I like the powder hopper empty nozzle, too. I also like the LnL bushings, but that is just personal preference. Even with the annoyances I've had with my Hornady, I don't think I'd want a 550B. I can't imagine advancing by hand (maybe I'm too lazy, but I figure that's what the press is for - otherwise I'd get a single stage) and the XL650 is too expensive for the amount of reloading I do. Just my $0.02. Jim __________________ The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can't get and to promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten, that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time is made good by looting A to satisfy B. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods. -- H. L. Mencken

October 25, 2001, 11:01 AM	#10
Cal4D4 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2001 Location: southern california Posts: 679	LNL Stuff I tried the dowel and it helped. Consistent problems with first primer in tube not being picked up, spotty priming in last 10 primers. Priming anvil snagged the shuttle and it broke. I hear ya on the ejection technique, but does not always work. Maybe a little roughness on a position or two on shell holders. Some of ejection problem built into the system per Hornady - the angle of approach defined by 5 stations at a given diameter. Powder measure and hopper drain,as well as quick change features can't be beat. Haven't tried the Dillon and can not comment on their ergonomics. I use mine as a self indexing turret. Quick change bushings make this fairly easy. Speed is not that big of an issue. Lack of reliable priming, ejection hang ups, interference at #5 with standard dies disqualify this setup as a progressive. Frustrating when the occasional finished round has no primer. Frustrating when the occasional finished round is sprung onto the ground. Frustrating when the occasional round hangs up and has to be helped out. I know system can be made to work usually, but that is not good enough to depend on with priming. grunewaj: I am glad you are happy with yours. As I said, it is a collection of good ideas/features. I am being as honest with a person's inquiry as I can. Maybe the Dillon users are glossing over their problems. Hornady hypes their system as competitive with the Dillon 650. Until you read the owner's manual you don't know about the problems with the separate crimp dies. With the investment in press and shellplates that I have made, I just expected the press to work as advertised and designed. I use mine every week, but I also must prime separately. It is a well made auto indexing turret with nice features like the bushings and the powder measure. I have no ammo shortages and this is the least of my concerns in life.

October 25, 2001, 11:46 AM	#11
slickpuppy Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 1999 Posts: 928	I won't gloss over any problems/issues with Dillon I have 2 Dillon 550s and my complaints are: 1. Cheesy powder measure adjustments. They need to get modern and have a micrometer click adjustment. 2. They need to offer an alternative to primer pickup tubes for primer feed. 3. They need to redesign the system to tighten down the shellplates. A bayonet system as used on camera lenses would be ideal instead of the bolt used currently. 4. Do away with the NEW chintzy white plastic washer on the powder return. Other than those gripes the presses are great. They just need to modernize it a little.

October 25, 2001, 02:09 PM	#12
grunewaj Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: North Carolina Posts: 133	Cal, I think you're right. Dillon users are going to talk about all the good things about their press, just as I like to talk about all the good things about my LnL AP. This really isn't a surprise since we each spent a fair piece of change and want to justify our purchase, at least to ourselves. As Slickpuppy points out, there are some rough spots in the Dillon press, too. I sent an email to Hornady saying they should cut the "trailing corner" off each position of the shell plate to ease ejection. I think that would work, but I can't afford to experiment right now. I also think that Hornady should "adjust" their advertising a bit. They state that a new caliber kit is required for each different caliber and that's not true, at least any more. I also think that if you want to make ammo at a very high rate, you need an XL650, not a LnL AP or a 550B. It does sound like you are having the same hassles with yours as I am having with mine, just more so. I hope you get your problems worked out. Jim __________________ The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can't get and to promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten, that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time is made good by looting A to satisfy B. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods. -- H. L. Mencken

October 25, 2001, 03:13 PM	#13
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	I use the Pro2000 for 2 reasons. 1) The aps primer system. There is nothing like just opening a box of primers and sliding them in. No feeding tubes or messing around. 2) The uniflow powder measure. Precise, repeatable and does not mind fine ball powders! I would highly recommend the pro2000. __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!

October 25, 2001, 06:19 PM	#14
Clint Tickler Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 1999 Location: Seattle Area Posts: 184	You've gotten a lot of input and hopefully you're not more confused. I've got the Dillon 650 next to my Rock Chucker and Lee Clallenger and pretty much am able to do everything I need for rifle and pistol. I think the 650 of course is a great machine. For the bucks I've got into it with the case feeder and tool heads if it didn't work well I'd have sent it back. All that being said I think you need to think about whether you want a progressive that is auto indexing (650) or non-auto indexing progressive. (550) I don't know about the others but that should narrow your choices. Good Luck!

October 26, 2001, 07:16 PM	#15
grunewaj Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: North Carolina Posts: 133	Gang, I found this thread about Dillon's presses and customer service. I post this not to bad mouth Dillon (the people posting on this thread still like Dillon even with their problems), but to show that any press can have rough spots (note the problems with primer loading). I know this may not soothe your tempers if you are the one experiencing the problem, but maybe it will put it into perspective a little. Jim Click here for the link. __________________ The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can't get and to promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten, that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time is made good by looting A to satisfy B. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods. -- H. L. Mencken

October 26, 2001, 07:48 PM	#16
Cal4D4 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2001 Location: southern california Posts: 679	A Crack In the Blue Brotherhood Thanks grunewaj! Somehow I feel more in tune with the Universe now.

October 26, 2001, 08:40 PM	#17
Kenneth L. Walters Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 1999 Location: flagstaff, arizona Posts: 477	I use to collect progressives. Probably had, and at least tried to use 36. Fun machines. Had just about every model from the 30's through the 80's. Of course progressives were introduced in the 1890's so I did miss the first 40 or so years of them. When I sold my press collection, I debated hard and long which ones to keep, if any. Ultimately just let them all go, including the three you mentioned. When the RCBS Pro 2000 came out I got one. Wonderful machines. That strip primer system is the best progressive primer system yet. When the Piggyback III came out, which also uses the strip primer system, I bought two. Very nice machines. I would certainly recommend these two over anything else I've used, including the Dillons of which I've probably owned 8+.

October 28, 2001, 08:58 PM	#18
Dogjaw Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2001 Location: S.W. Michigan Posts: 560	I've had a Dillon 550 for over 9 years now. I won't trade it for anything. Saying that, it's pluses are it's durability, accuracy (Forget the claims about singles over progressives. I reload 250/3000 Savage that'll shoot 3 shot, 100 yard groups of 3/8"), the accuracy of the powder measure, auto primer feeder. The improvements would be a scale on the powder measure to get the charge close. If I set the powder charge at 32 grains of Win 748, it never changes. I'll check every 5th case and get exactly 32 grains. Do not use IMR powders in a Dillon powder measure. The cylinder shaped IMR powders shear off in the measure and will gum up the powder measure's slide. But then again, I've had so much good luck with Winchester ball powders, it's all I use.

October 28, 2001, 09:33 PM	#19
locolife Junior Member Join Date: May 25, 2001 Posts: 14	Here is my $.02... Started with a Rockchucker... Then went to the Lee Pro 1000, sent it back 2 days later.... Then tried the RCBS Piggyback, sold it 2 weeks later after trying a friends Dillon... Spent the extra loot (I probably spent the difference trying to get the others to work right) and got a Dillon 650. Its been 5 years now and the 650 is still working perfectly. I have only had to replace one part (which was free from Dillon) which broke due to a careless mistake on my part. Forget the rest and spend the extra $ on the 650, you will not regret it. Last edited by locolife; October 29, 2001 at 06:12 PM.

October 30, 2001, 01:41 AM	#20
jtduncan Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 1999 Location: Seattle, Washington, USA Posts: 1,686	I load all of the below on a Dillon 550. And its also manually indexing. On the Square Deal, you may not have room to easily load 44 mag - tall cases. Dillon 550 - call Dillon and ask, it's their best seller. __________________ The Seattle SharpShooter Reloaded .223 Rem, 9mm, 40SW, 357 SIG, 10mm, 44 Mag, 45 ACP Today?

October 30, 2001, 06:00 AM	#21
Dogjaw Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2001 Location: S.W. Michigan Posts: 560	On the RL550B, I reload the following with excellent results: 222 Rem 250/3000 30-30 308 30-06 38 spl 357 mag 9mm luger There aren't too many progressive presses out there that'll handle both pistol and rifle. This one's the best solution. You won't have to buy another.

October 30, 2001, 09:25 AM	#22
grunewaj Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: North Carolina Posts: 133	As far as I know, the Dillon Square Deal is the only progressive that won't load rifle (I could be wrong, though). The Hornady LnL AP is the less expensive auto progressive between Dillon and Hornady and it will load both rifle and pistol ammo. There's more to reloading presses than Dillon. __________________ The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can't get and to promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten, that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time is made good by looting A to satisfy B. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods. -- H. L. Mencken

November 1, 2001, 11:02 AM	#23
pinetree Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2001 Location: Cumming GA Posts: 626	I ordered the RCBS Pro2000 from Graf & Sons. RCBS has been good to me. I have all RCBS dies. The shell plate from my piggy-back, is 44mag and also fits my 30-06. I like the primer system. I use to order exclusivley from Midway. When they started charging for shipping, I didn't notice any change in prices. G&S had a lower price and no shipping. thanks, tjg

November 1, 2001, 11:27 AM	#24
grunewaj Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: North Carolina Posts: 133	Pinetree, I'm not familiar with the RCBS line, except for their dies. I know they have presses, but I don't know much about their progressives. If it's as good as their Rock Chucker, it should be very good. I know what you mean about the change in Midway's policy. I've read a lot of posts complaining about it. I know they've lowered the price on the Hornady LnL AP, in fact they're having a sale on them ($270) which is a great price. I don't mind the change in policy, though, because most places don't include shipping and it's easier to compare. I'll check out Graf & Sons. That sounds like it might be a good place. I've also done business at Lock Stock & Barrel. They don't pay for shipping, but they usually have good prices. __________________ The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can't get and to promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten, that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time is made good by looting A to satisfy B. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods. -- H. L. Mencken

November 1, 2001, 12:45 PM	#25
Keith J Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2000 Posts: 469	Dillon To solve the Dillon measure problem, use a Lee Perfect measure with their universal powder die. It works fine with Dillon. Priming problems are solved using the Dillon auto filler. You still have to transfer primers but it beats picking the up out of the tray. Shell plates are the weakest link. I find the best way to eliminate "slop" is to tighten the main bolt to the point the plate will not turn. I then SNUB the brass-tipped setscrew on the main bolt shank. Not tight, just a friction fit. I then loosen the main bolt until the plate will turn. The bottlenecked dies from Dillon and Lee work well to extract stuck and partially derimmed cases. You do not need to remove the dies, just lower the depriming rod with the screw in the Dillon or loosen the collet and tap the rod free on the Lee until the case is free of the die. Then clean the chips from the shell plate, reinsert the case on the plate and give it a 90 degree turn to engage a undamaged portion of the rim. Tighten the collet if a Lee and lower the ram. Throw shell away, readjust the depriming stem and continue, making sure you have properly lubed your cases. I only get a stuck case if I forget to lube at least every other case or the case was fired in an excessively large chamber...like a Glock.