Eating crow: Remington 710

Will Beararms · November 26, 2001, 09:39 PM

I own a 710 in .30-06. Heretofore, I ravenously defended them. Take it from me, they are a piece of crap. Mine willl not hold zero. The bolt is so rough, the mag jams and the teflon bolt insert is gouged due to my trying to function the bolt. The bolt is very flimsy and almost falls apart when I try to break down the gun for cleaning.

If your'e in the market for a budget combo get the Savage kit.

Will Beararms · November 26, 2001, 10:01 PM

Another note: I posted on the Remington forum on Remington's web site and they won't post it! I was gonna go back and grovel to get a 700 ADL Synthetic. Now, I think I'll pass.

rugerfreak · November 27, 2001, 05:17 PM

Still a happy camper with my 710 so far----although it doesn't see much use----bought it for a back-up and thats the role its been filling.

My frontline rifles are a .260 Model 7 and a Weatherby SLS.

UK2TX · November 28, 2001, 10:52 AM

Chaps,

You have to use sarcasm, for example:

Dear Remington,

Just a quick note to thank you for producting the Model 710, the hours that I spend at the range sighting in the rifle have improved my shooting ability immensely. The fit and function of the modern materials used in the production of the rifle never cease to amaze me, I cannot imaging someone producting a rifle of this quality without them.

The easy with which the bolt disassembles has made cleaning the rifle a breeze, why in fact some times the rifle feels like it is trying to help me clean it!

Thanks once again for producting this model, I will be sure to tell all my friends about it for I am sure they will be amazed the "Big Green" could produce something like this.

Regards,

UK2TX

Will Beararms · November 28, 2001, 01:16 PM

UK2TX:

May I have license to your prose? Excellent if I do say so myself. I may change the scope on this thing to a Tasco as I have found that Tasco makes the best "cheap" scope on the market.

The cross hairs are so thin on the current Bushnell scope that I lose them in less than perfect light and it's a booger to sight in at a range. I have 20/20 vision for the record I might add.

The trigger on this beast is amazingly smooth. The reason I had so much praise for the thing intially is it did well the first time to the range. The two subsequent trips mandated me re-establishing zero with each trip.

At this juncture, it may just be a scope problem. Believe it or not, I don't like cheap variable scopes and due to the dense terrain I hunt, the 4X always works well. Therefore, I will either retrofit this thing with a 4X or 6X scope. If I still have problems, I will take a loss on the rifle and get something else. Heck, I think I will get another rifle anyway.

My penchant in life is duck hunting anyway and my focus is on shotguns of the hunting variety. The premise of having this weapon was to own a cheap but moderately accurate weapon for the occasional deer hunt chambered in an all-around caliber. In retrospect which is always clearer, I should have bought a NEF Handi Rifle chanbered in .243. Oh well, we live and learn.

In Remington's defense, I believe one of the greatest all-around weapons ever made is the Remington 870 which is why it is my "go to" gun above and beyond my Beretta 390, Browning Auto 5 or Remington 1187 3" 12 Gauge.

UK2TX · November 28, 2001, 01:25 PM

Hello Will Beararms,

By all means, help yourself.

Regards,

UK2TX

H&H,hunter · November 29, 2001, 11:58 AM

Sorry guys but if it says remington on it and it's a bolt action it ain't safe to use in the woods. In twenty years of hunting and guiding I've seen 4 rifles fire on there own 1 ruger that went off when the bolt was closed. 1 Mark V Weatherby which went off when the bolt was closed due to a broken sear/bolt stop. And the 2 that scare me the most were both Remingtons one a model 7 last year that went off in my truck when I asked a client to please unload her weapon she clicked the safety off and that was the end off my hearing for a while, went right out the passenger window and into an innocent little aspen tree. The second was also a model 7 this year that fired with the saftey ON when the gun was dropped. Oh the joy!!! Untill remington comes up with a sear block safety I won't let anyone with a Remington come near me or my equipment unless it's on an empty chamber. the safety absoulutly CAN NOT BE TRUSTED!!!! The most alarming thing about this is the problem is it's widely known in the firearms world and worst of all Remington is fully aware of the problem and will do nothing about it.

When your guide offers to carry your gun chances are he ain't just being friendly.

Will Beararms · November 29, 2001, 12:28 PM

Thanks H&H.

I may be closer to 86ing the 710 than I thought. I am no guide but I have been handling weapons for 30 years and I too am forced many times to call someone else's hand about unsafe marksmanship or the lack thereof.

I had a lawyer three years back who insisted in holding his shotgun clinched between his right elbow and his side with the muzzle pointing at everybody's waist. I silently waded over to the other guys and pulled them back from the line of fire--------one by one and he got the message.

Some of my simple rules are:

1. When in boat, gun is cased with the breech open and unloaded. (It's the law in most places anyway.)

2. All firearms, save my personal defense pistol are unloaded in the vehicle.

3. The rifle is unloaded climbing up and down the stand; not to mention when crossing a fence.

4. No shot of any kind is taken at any animal in any hunting situation unless I am 100% sure of the target and what lies beyond it.

There are other rules and I tremble even thinking about this since any of us can have an accident----------------especially when we get too cocky.

H&H,hunter · November 29, 2001, 08:43 PM

Will Beararms,
Words to live by my friend!!
words to live by.
When I was younger I used to consider it a point of honor to lead the stalk on a critter. After about the third time I turned around and was looking straight down the small round end of some super mag rifle I decided to change my operation a bit. I never walk in front of anybody with a loaded weapon anymore. I make it a point to always lead from the side and slightly to the rear of my hunter in any situation which requires a loaded weapon.

I am a patient condierate guy I'll put up with lots of thing in the field. Blizzards, gale force winds, leaking tents, bears in camp, weasles in your sleeping bag, rain on your fire, missed shots, excuses for missed shots, red headed women, fogged over glass, lousy cookin, whinning, complaining, placid trail horses going NFR bronc, sore asses, busted legs, cut fingers, mean dogs, pissed off cats eating my mean dogs, flat tires, blow downs in your trail lousy hunting, lousy hunters and lots of other things. But I'll not put up with any one pointing a gun at me accidental or other wise! And I'll let you know about it right now.
If any of you ever get the chance to hunt with Ashley Emerson of Ashley Outdoors fame the first thing you'll notice when entering his truck is emblazened in 4" high letters across his dash "DO NOT POINT GUNS AT ASHLEY" he considers it fair warning.

Ahmen.

Art Eatman · November 30, 2001, 12:07 AM

H&H, I'm less prone to blame a particular brand than I am to wonder who did what to some rifle. Too many folks think they know how to play that game of "Adjusting we will go, adjusting we will go; Hi, ho, the merry-O..." Too often the result can be events such as you describe.

I've owned the same brands of guns, and found that if they are properly cleaned from time to time, and pass the "bounce" test for the trigger, Bad Things are unlikely to occur.

I checked an ADL and my new Titanium by putting on the safety, pulling on the trigger, and then releasing the safety. Nothing happened. I repeated this till I got bored--and never could meddle around and make it go Click. But I haven't over-adjusted the sear-travel length, either. If you do, you can discover the Land of Bad Things.

, Art

Blue Duck357 · December 1, 2001, 04:48 PM

I'll tell on myself here,

Following instructions found somewhere on the web I "adjusted" my 700's trigger. Got a great pull too. It was only at the range I found out that if I even brushed the trigger slightly and later clicked the safety off BOOM!.

Got a shilen trigger now, and left it alone when I got it.

Guyon · December 1, 2001, 05:39 PM

Hey Will. Pick up a copy of Field and Stream. They list the 710 in their "Best of the Best" gear for this year. Maybe you should write in and let them know that it is the best POS you've seen in some time.

Frankly, I never got the 710 concept. Isn't the ADL affordable enough?

Will Beararms · December 1, 2001, 05:47 PM

Today I was in an Academy in the Dallas area. I looked at a $70.00 Bushnell 4 x 32 that is actually a shotgun scope by it has the 1/4" clicks at 100 yards set up like any other scope. I am going to get rid of the existing Bushnell 3-9 x 40 with those thinner than thread cross hairs and try this 4X with the thick cross hairs and circle in the middle. If this improves the accuracy, then I'll keep it for its intended use-----------------a drag through the mud leave in the hunting jeep firearm.

Remember the longest shot on my lease is 75 yards in thickets, grown over logging roads and ehavy timber. A 4X may be too much scope. We'll see what happens.

H&H,hunter · December 1, 2001, 07:53 PM

Art,
I agree with you and in both cases the Model 7's I spoke of were factory unmodified guns.And as I said the second incident occured with the safety indicating on!!! The fact remains that a trigger block safety can not possibly be as safe as a sear block safety. I also agree that the vast majority of Remingtons will not fire after pulling the trigger with the safety on, then again I've seen several that do, would you bet your life on it??
You see I am not worried about shooting someone with a faulty Remington I hope to have enough experience and firearm handling skills to never have a gun pointed at anybody who didn't need it. I am worried about the inexperienced or careless guy who kills somebody else. It has happened with Remingtons and it will happen again untill they decide to fix that sorry excuse for a safety.

Ron L · December 2, 2001, 03:58 PM

Remington Forums, huh?

I've checked out their site for quite a while over the past few days and haven't found a link to the forums from their home page. (Not that there's much there anyway.) Think they're tired of people complaining?

Ziplok · December 2, 2001, 04:36 PM

It's a rifle designed by accountants rather than a competent engineering staff. I've gone over one thoroughly a couple of times at the one local gunpirate with enough gall to sell something this cheap to the gullible and uninformed. ...NOT!

This thread simply backs up my feelings... Remington is trying to fob off a cheap, unreliable weapon on the public as an 'economy' shooter, using their Brand Name and past rep for fine weapons
to sell a cheap and potentially dangerous piece of drek.

Whoever is responsable for these things should be forced to
hunt with it.

Blue Duck357 · December 2, 2001, 05:48 PM

When even the gun magazines which gush over anything put out by a major manuafacturer refer to it as something most likely to be used as a "backup rifle" alarm bells should be going off

As Wal-Mart usually sells the 700ADL's for just a tad over $300 whats the point? What are these things going for?

Art Eatman · December 3, 2001, 01:08 AM

H&H, I was raised around pre-'54 (no typo) Model 70s and Springfields and Enfields. Since I was a little-bitty, I was always told, "Don't trust that safety!"

I generally walking-hunt--or sit on a stand--with the bolt handle up. Funny thing: That doggoned gun just won't shoot when it's in that condition! Sure is quiet and quick to close, though. I tend to point this out to "newbies". That way I don't have to worry about whether or not a safety works.

The sad part about those Model 7s is that the problem could have been discovered before leaving the gun store.

, Art

tintcutter · January 4, 2005, 02:15 AM

I agree with the beancounter problem at remington. None (597 in 22lr AND 22mag, 7400 in 270) of the new rifles I have recently purchased have been worth a flip. The shotguns are old design and I like them (870,11-87). I have an old 7 mag that is a straight shot. I wanted a new 06 and would not consider the 700 because I figure they are like the ruger 10/22, you gotta replace everything and the barrel if you wanna shoot wild dimes. Some MBA is going to leave the big green in a sorry state soon. Unless I miss my guess, all these posts I have been reading from all over mean sales will slow down for them when the word gets around to the bottom tier folks that have to listen to others to get their own opinions. Then the fun starts when the corporate types try to shore up sales figures with sophisticated lying. But then the big green will end up in the red and I would hate to see that.

FirstFreedom · January 4, 2005, 10:26 AM

UK2TX - LMBO - Will, you should really try to post that - under a different name if need be. Funny stuff. Will, no, no, a Tasco is too good for that it sounds like - what that rifle needs is a Daisy or Crosman red dot! JK - sorry you're having trouble - but hey, if it's the "best of the best", then it shouldn't be too hard to find a bubba to take it off your hands. Just go to a gun show with a for sale sign on it; when someone stops you, show them the rifle then ask them if they are an NRA member - if they say "huh?" or "no, I don't want my name on some list", then you'll know they are deserving of that rifle. Savage, Howa or Vanguard, or CZ550 if you want serious value.

Tom2 · January 4, 2005, 05:57 PM

I understand that the local VFW bought some 710's a couple years ago to use firing blanks for salutes-why they chose that rifle instead of a mil, I don't know! After a short time they turned them in to the seller-the 30-06 blanks would jam in the chambers and they could not lift the bolts or extract them. They even managed to remove the bolt handles from the bolts from pulling too hard! I don't know what happened to the scopes. They went back to Rem. for "factory refurb" and came back to the local dealer, who was trying to sell them at $350 without the scopes. Might have not had the bases, either. I did look one of them over carefully and read the mag. reviews. You would think they were super from the reviews. Guess I am lucky I did not buy!

Handy · January 4, 2005, 07:25 PM

I believe that the safety problem on older Remington's is rather well known, and has been corrected in the current production.

That being said, if I wanted a bolt gun they'd be rather low on my list. The 710 is by most reports junk. The "nice" 700s still seem to shed brazed on bolt handles on occasion.

I have to wonder if all the hoopla over Remington is just because the receiver design makes for easy custom work.

There are many very nice bolt guns out there from Savage, Win., Sig, Howa, Browning, etc. I don't get the allure.

DAVID NANCARROW · January 4, 2005, 09:28 PM

I wouldn't keep a 710 if given to me, and would not give it to anyone I liked. That said, I guess I'm gonna have to open up my gun safe and give my 3 700's a stern talking to. They range in age from 20 to 2 years old, all of them have had their pull weight adjusted by me, and none have malfunctioned in any way.

Of course, after making the adjustments, and before mounting the scope, I cocked the rifle on an empty chamber and slammed the butt against the floor several times before I was satisfied it was safe. I then set the safety and repeated the test without issue.

Some people will fiddle with the rear screw on a 700 trigger-which is to adjust the length of sear engagement, trying to get a target weight pull. I highly recommend you change the factory trigger out if you want the pull weight so light.

I know factories will let junk out the door occasionally-regardless of who they are, but the 710 is nothing but junk and I will not touch one, period. Not sure about the model 7-never owned one, and only shot one a friend of mine bought. Couldn't figure out why I could not get decent groups from it until he told me that he'd cross threaded two of the scope base screws and then stripped them

jefnvk · January 6, 2005, 12:22 PM

I will share your opinions of the 710. Note that I have never shot one. I was helping a friend pick out a deer rifle. He had me lok at one, and I was not at all impressed. Told him to take the Savage combo sitting next to it instead.

I won't share H&H's opinion of all Remingtons, though. 6 years I have hunted with Remington rifles, and have ben shooting them much longer. My family has been using them forever. Guess what? No problems. Never a single misfire. I will use them anyday. I was also taught to never trust a safety, though.

Handy · January 6, 2005, 12:35 PM

jefnvk,

The problem isn't trusting the safety when it is on, but that the safety will sometimes become a trigger on older 700s when disengaged.

I'm not sure what became of the class action law suit for that problem, but if you have an older 700 I'd contact Remington to see if there is a recall or upgrade.

November 26, 2001, 09:39 PM	#1
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	Eating crow: Remington 710 I own a 710 in .30-06. Heretofore, I ravenously defended them. Take it from me, they are a piece of crap. Mine willl not hold zero. The bolt is so rough, the mag jams and the teflon bolt insert is gouged due to my trying to function the bolt. The bolt is very flimsy and almost falls apart when I try to break down the gun for cleaning. If your'e in the market for a budget combo get the Savage kit. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

November 26, 2001, 10:01 PM	#2
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	Another note: I posted on the Remington forum on Remington's web site and they won't post it! I was gonna go back and grovel to get a 700 ADL Synthetic. Now, I think I'll pass. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

November 28, 2001, 01:16 PM	#5
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	UK2TX: May I have license to your prose? Excellent if I do say so myself. I may change the scope on this thing to a Tasco as I have found that Tasco makes the best "cheap" scope on the market. The cross hairs are so thin on the current Bushnell scope that I lose them in less than perfect light and it's a booger to sight in at a range. I have 20/20 vision for the record I might add. The trigger on this beast is amazingly smooth. The reason I had so much praise for the thing intially is it did well the first time to the range. The two subsequent trips mandated me re-establishing zero with each trip. At this juncture, it may just be a scope problem. Believe it or not, I don't like cheap variable scopes and due to the dense terrain I hunt, the 4X always works well. Therefore, I will either retrofit this thing with a 4X or 6X scope. If I still have problems, I will take a loss on the rifle and get something else. Heck, I think I will get another rifle anyway. My penchant in life is duck hunting anyway and my focus is on shotguns of the hunting variety. The premise of having this weapon was to own a cheap but moderately accurate weapon for the occasional deer hunt chambered in an all-around caliber. In retrospect which is always clearer, I should have bought a NEF Handi Rifle chanbered in .243. Oh well, we live and learn. In Remington's defense, I believe one of the greatest all-around weapons ever made is the Remington 870 which is why it is my "go to" gun above and beyond my Beretta 390, Browning Auto 5 or Remington 1187 3" 12 Gauge. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

November 29, 2001, 12:28 PM	#8
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	Thanks H&H. I may be closer to 86ing the 710 than I thought. I am no guide but I have been handling weapons for 30 years and I too am forced many times to call someone else's hand about unsafe marksmanship or the lack thereof. I had a lawyer three years back who insisted in holding his shotgun clinched between his right elbow and his side with the muzzle pointing at everybody's waist. I silently waded over to the other guys and pulled them back from the line of fire--------one by one and he got the message. Some of my simple rules are: 1. When in boat, gun is cased with the breech open and unloaded. (It's the law in most places anyway.) 2. All firearms, save my personal defense pistol are unloaded in the vehicle. 3. The rifle is unloaded climbing up and down the stand; not to mention when crossing a fence. 4. No shot of any kind is taken at any animal in any hunting situation unless I am 100% sure of the target and what lies beyond it. There are other rules and I tremble even thinking about this since any of us can have an accident----------------especially when we get too cocky. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

November 29, 2001, 08:43 PM	#9
H&H,hunter Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 504	Will Beararms, Words to live by my friend!! words to live by. When I was younger I used to consider it a point of honor to lead the stalk on a critter. After about the third time I turned around and was looking straight down the small round end of some super mag rifle I decided to change my operation a bit. I never walk in front of anybody with a loaded weapon anymore. I make it a point to always lead from the side and slightly to the rear of my hunter in any situation which requires a loaded weapon. I am a patient condierate guy I'll put up with lots of thing in the field. Blizzards, gale force winds, leaking tents, bears in camp, weasles in your sleeping bag, rain on your fire, missed shots, excuses for missed shots, red headed women, fogged over glass, lousy cookin, whinning, complaining, placid trail horses going NFR bronc, sore asses, busted legs, cut fingers, mean dogs, pissed off cats eating my mean dogs, flat tires, blow downs in your trail lousy hunting, lousy hunters and lots of other things. But I'll not put up with any one pointing a gun at me accidental or other wise! And I'll let you know about it right now. If any of you ever get the chance to hunt with Ashley Emerson of Ashley Outdoors fame the first thing you'll notice when entering his truck is emblazened in 4" high letters across his dash "DO NOT POINT GUNS AT ASHLEY" he considers it fair warning. Ahmen. Last edited by H&H,hunter; November 29, 2001 at 09:13 PM.

November 27, 2001, 05:17 PM	#3
rugerfreak Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2001 Posts: 819	Still a happy camper with my 710 so far----although it doesn't see much use----bought it for a back-up and thats the role its been filling. My frontline rifles are a .260 Model 7 and a Weatherby SLS.

November 28, 2001, 10:52 AM	#4
UK2TX Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Austin,TX Posts: 274	Chaps, You have to use sarcasm, for example: Dear Remington, Just a quick note to thank you for producting the Model 710, the hours that I spend at the range sighting in the rifle have improved my shooting ability immensely. The fit and function of the modern materials used in the production of the rifle never cease to amaze me, I cannot imaging someone producting a rifle of this quality without them. The easy with which the bolt disassembles has made cleaning the rifle a breeze, why in fact some times the rifle feels like it is trying to help me clean it! Thanks once again for producting this model, I will be sure to tell all my friends about it for I am sure they will be amazed the "Big Green" could produce something like this. Regards, UK2TX

November 28, 2001, 01:25 PM	#6
UK2TX Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Austin,TX Posts: 274	Hello Will Beararms, By all means, help yourself. Regards, UK2TX

November 29, 2001, 11:58 AM	#7
H&H,hunter Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 504	Sorry guys but if it says remington on it and it's a bolt action it ain't safe to use in the woods. In twenty years of hunting and guiding I've seen 4 rifles fire on there own 1 ruger that went off when the bolt was closed. 1 Mark V Weatherby which went off when the bolt was closed due to a broken sear/bolt stop. And the 2 that scare me the most were both Remingtons one a model 7 last year that went off in my truck when I asked a client to please unload her weapon she clicked the safety off and that was the end off my hearing for a while, went right out the passenger window and into an innocent little aspen tree. The second was also a model 7 this year that fired with the saftey ON when the gun was dropped. Oh the joy!!! Untill remington comes up with a sear block safety I won't let anyone with a Remington come near me or my equipment unless it's on an empty chamber. the safety absoulutly CAN NOT BE TRUSTED!!!! The most alarming thing about this is the problem is it's widely known in the firearms world and worst of all Remington is fully aware of the problem and will do nothing about it. When your guide offers to carry your gun chances are he ain't just being friendly.

November 30, 2001, 12:07 AM	#10
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	H&H, I'm less prone to blame a particular brand than I am to wonder who did what to some rifle. Too many folks think they know how to play that game of "Adjusting we will go, adjusting we will go; Hi, ho, the merry-O..." Too often the result can be events such as you describe. I've owned the same brands of guns, and found that if they are properly cleaned from time to time, and pass the "bounce" test for the trigger, Bad Things are unlikely to occur. I checked an ADL and my new Titanium by putting on the safety, pulling on the trigger, and then releasing the safety. Nothing happened. I repeated this till I got bored--and never could meddle around and make it go Click. But I haven't over-adjusted the sear-travel length, either. If you do, you can discover the Land of Bad Things. , Art

December 1, 2001, 04:48 PM	#11
Blue Duck357 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2000 Posts: 1,460	I'll tell on myself here, Following instructions found somewhere on the web I "adjusted" my 700's trigger. Got a great pull too. It was only at the range I found out that if I even brushed the trigger slightly and later clicked the safety off BOOM!. Got a shilen trigger now, and left it alone when I got it.

December 1, 2001, 05:39 PM	#12
Guyon Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2000 Location: Over the Hills and Through the Woods, Tennessee Posts: 1,207	Hey Will. Pick up a copy of Field and Stream. They list the 710 in their "Best of the Best" gear for this year. Maybe you should write in and let them know that it is the best POS you've seen in some time. Frankly, I never got the 710 concept. Isn't the ADL affordable enough? __________________ Gun control should just be about hitting your target.

December 1, 2001, 05:47 PM	#13
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	Today I was in an Academy in the Dallas area. I looked at a $70.00 Bushnell 4 x 32 that is actually a shotgun scope by it has the 1/4" clicks at 100 yards set up like any other scope. I am going to get rid of the existing Bushnell 3-9 x 40 with those thinner than thread cross hairs and try this 4X with the thick cross hairs and circle in the middle. If this improves the accuracy, then I'll keep it for its intended use-----------------a drag through the mud leave in the hunting jeep firearm. Remember the longest shot on my lease is 75 yards in thickets, grown over logging roads and ehavy timber. A 4X may be too much scope. We'll see what happens. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

December 1, 2001, 07:53 PM	#14
H&H,hunter Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 504	Art, I agree with you and in both cases the Model 7's I spoke of were factory unmodified guns.And as I said the second incident occured with the safety indicating on!!! The fact remains that a trigger block safety can not possibly be as safe as a sear block safety. I also agree that the vast majority of Remingtons will not fire after pulling the trigger with the safety on, then again I've seen several that do, would you bet your life on it?? You see I am not worried about shooting someone with a faulty Remington I hope to have enough experience and firearm handling skills to never have a gun pointed at anybody who didn't need it. I am worried about the inexperienced or careless guy who kills somebody else. It has happened with Remingtons and it will happen again untill they decide to fix that sorry excuse for a safety.

December 2, 2001, 03:58 PM	#15
Ron L Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 1999 Location: Livonia, MI USA Posts: 386	Remington Forums, huh? I've checked out their site for quite a while over the past few days and haven't found a link to the forums from their home page. (Not that there's much there anyway.) Think they're tired of people complaining? __________________ Ron Detroit Area Chapter Terre-Haute Torque & Recoil Society "If it rolls, floats, or shoots, runs on gunpowder or gasoline, goes fast, shoots a big bullet, or makes lots of noise thus producing torque and recoil - it's cool."

December 2, 2001, 04:36 PM	#16
Ziplok Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2001 Location: California Foothills Posts: 100	My Take on the 710 is: It's a rifle designed by accountants rather than a competent engineering staff. I've gone over one thoroughly a couple of times at the one local gunpirate with enough gall to sell something this cheap to the gullible and uninformed. ...NOT! This thread simply backs up my feelings... Remington is trying to fob off a cheap, unreliable weapon on the public as an 'economy' shooter, using their Brand Name and past rep for fine weapons to sell a cheap and potentially dangerous piece of drek. Whoever is responsable for these things should be forced to hunt with it. __________________ Our third-rate snivilization..... There is something even more valuable to civilization than wisdom...and that is character.

December 2, 2001, 05:48 PM	#17
Blue Duck357 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2000 Posts: 1,460	When even the gun magazines which gush over anything put out by a major manuafacturer refer to it as something most likely to be used as a "backup rifle" alarm bells should be going off As Wal-Mart usually sells the 700ADL's for just a tad over $300 whats the point? What are these things going for?

December 3, 2001, 01:08 AM	#18
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	H&H, I was raised around pre-'54 (no typo) Model 70s and Springfields and Enfields. Since I was a little-bitty, I was always told, "Don't trust that safety!" I generally walking-hunt--or sit on a stand--with the bolt handle up. Funny thing: That doggoned gun just won't shoot when it's in that condition! Sure is quiet and quick to close, though. I tend to point this out to "newbies". That way I don't have to worry about whether or not a safety works. The sad part about those Model 7s is that the problem could have been discovered before leaving the gun store. , Art

January 4, 2005, 02:15 AM	#19
tintcutter Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 207	Beancounters I agree with the beancounter problem at remington. None (597 in 22lr AND 22mag, 7400 in 270) of the new rifles I have recently purchased have been worth a flip. The shotguns are old design and I like them (870,11-87). I have an old 7 mag that is a straight shot. I wanted a new 06 and would not consider the 700 because I figure they are like the ruger 10/22, you gotta replace everything and the barrel if you wanna shoot wild dimes. Some MBA is going to leave the big green in a sorry state soon. Unless I miss my guess, all these posts I have been reading from all over mean sales will slow down for them when the word gets around to the bottom tier folks that have to listen to others to get their own opinions. Then the fun starts when the corporate types try to shore up sales figures with sophisticated lying. But then the big green will end up in the red and I would hate to see that.

January 4, 2005, 10:26 AM	#20
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	UK2TX - LMBO - Will, you should really try to post that - under a different name if need be. Funny stuff. Will, no, no, a Tasco is too good for that it sounds like - what that rifle needs is a Daisy or Crosman red dot! JK - sorry you're having trouble - but hey, if it's the "best of the best", then it shouldn't be too hard to find a bubba to take it off your hands. Just go to a gun show with a for sale sign on it; when someone stops you, show them the rifle then ask them if they are an NRA member - if they say "huh?" or "no, I don't want my name on some list", then you'll know they are deserving of that rifle. Savage, Howa or Vanguard, or CZ550 if you want serious value.

January 4, 2005, 05:57 PM	#21
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Vfw I understand that the local VFW bought some 710's a couple years ago to use firing blanks for salutes-why they chose that rifle instead of a mil, I don't know! After a short time they turned them in to the seller-the 30-06 blanks would jam in the chambers and they could not lift the bolts or extract them. They even managed to remove the bolt handles from the bolts from pulling too hard! I don't know what happened to the scopes. They went back to Rem. for "factory refurb" and came back to the local dealer, who was trying to sell them at $350 without the scopes. Might have not had the bases, either. I did look one of them over carefully and read the mag. reviews. You would think they were super from the reviews. Guess I am lucky I did not buy!

January 4, 2005, 07:25 PM	#22
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	I believe that the safety problem on older Remington's is rather well known, and has been corrected in the current production. That being said, if I wanted a bolt gun they'd be rather low on my list. The 710 is by most reports junk. The "nice" 700s still seem to shed brazed on bolt handles on occasion. I have to wonder if all the hoopla over Remington is just because the receiver design makes for easy custom work. There are many very nice bolt guns out there from Savage, Win., Sig, Howa, Browning, etc. I don't get the allure.

January 4, 2005, 09:28 PM	#23
DAVID NANCARROW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,761	I wouldn't keep a 710 if given to me, and would not give it to anyone I liked. That said, I guess I'm gonna have to open up my gun safe and give my 3 700's a stern talking to. They range in age from 20 to 2 years old, all of them have had their pull weight adjusted by me, and none have malfunctioned in any way. Of course, after making the adjustments, and before mounting the scope, I cocked the rifle on an empty chamber and slammed the butt against the floor several times before I was satisfied it was safe. I then set the safety and repeated the test without issue. Some people will fiddle with the rear screw on a 700 trigger-which is to adjust the length of sear engagement, trying to get a target weight pull. I highly recommend you change the factory trigger out if you want the pull weight so light. I know factories will let junk out the door occasionally-regardless of who they are, but the 710 is nothing but junk and I will not touch one, period. Not sure about the model 7-never owned one, and only shot one a friend of mine bought. Couldn't figure out why I could not get decent groups from it until he told me that he'd cross threaded two of the scope base screws and then stripped them

January 6, 2005, 12:22 PM	#24
jefnvk Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2004 Location: MI Tech Posts: 1,791	I will share your opinions of the 710. Note that I have never shot one. I was helping a friend pick out a deer rifle. He had me lok at one, and I was not at all impressed. Told him to take the Savage combo sitting next to it instead. I won't share H&H's opinion of all Remingtons, though. 6 years I have hunted with Remington rifles, and have ben shooting them much longer. My family has been using them forever. Guess what? No problems. Never a single misfire. I will use them anyday. I was also taught to never trust a safety, though.

January 6, 2005, 12:35 PM	#25
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	jefnvk, The problem isn't trusting the safety when it is on, but that the safety will sometimes become a trigger on older 700s when disengaged. I'm not sure what became of the class action law suit for that problem, but if you have an older 700 I'd contact Remington to see if there is a recall or upgrade.