A lesson from Taiwan

twoblink · December 30, 2001, 08:28 AM

I just got back from Taiwan (best food on earth!!) but it's a country where you can't own guns.

Very strange.. and for those who are born and live in America and have never travelled outside the US, let me give you a little idea of what it's like.

Now Taiwanese people are very capitalistic, (when it comes to taxes) everything else, they are socialists. Government controls phones, utilities, transportation, liquor (the rice wine shortage there is just a joke) BATF-esque stuff...

Well, basically everything is rulely, until you get little common street thugs. They require every high school student to take a class (women also) in rifle proficiency, and every man has to serve in the military for at least 2 years. BUT, you can't own a gun!! How weird is that?? So nobody except police and military can own guns. So when you get into a arguement on the freeway, you'd better run, because the other punk thug kid probably has a baseball bat, a knife, or an illegal gun. It is very strange and stupid; everybody is afraid of the local thugs because they have no real way of protecting themselves. If a rape was happening there, 9 out of 10 guys won't stop to help, because they will probably get beaten up. The gun I've realized is the great equalizer, it empowers someone to defend themself, regardless of size, age, or gender.

I will be going there to study for a year next year, and I seriously worry about my own safety.. I guess it'll have to be dual butterfly knives for me while I'm there...

Which brings me to yet the other paradox of this dumba$$ of Kalifornia. Let me understand this, I can own a gun, but I can't own a butterfly knife??

Of course, the liberal response to that question is : "Yes, it doesn't make sense, that's why we want to try to make it so you can't own a gun either."

I just came back from a country where it's citizens are unarmed. It's not a good thing. Everybody fears for their life, and nobody can do anything about it.

In case you all wondered; the presentation guards at the monuments and memorials all carry M1-Garands. The Taiwan army trains with M-14's.

Albert.

yankytrash · December 30, 2001, 08:42 AM

twoblink - You are one hell of a glutten for punishment ain't ya?!
Live the PRK and take vacations to Taiwan.....jeesh, what's next?

Apply for an FFL in NYC?

falconer · December 30, 2001, 09:39 AM

Actually, most of their police do not carry guns. This is why every cop they have has to become a blackbelt in shuai chiao before they can graduated from the Central Police University.

You definately have to watch out for the local gangsters, and it wouldn't hurt to make friends with some people in the Ching Society.

While you are there, I highly recommend that you take advantage of some of the highly skilled martial arts teachers there. Send me a PM and I'll see if I can put you in contact with one of my "uncles".

twoblink · December 30, 2001, 12:05 PM

Actually, I was thinking of trying to sell some Afgans some xmas cards, or introducing them to Coca-cola...

They (taiwanese cops) seem to have a thing for Beretta's and Walthers...

The officers there all carry HK-P7's as their sidearms..

The presentation guards carry chrome M1-Garands that look awesome but probably have little practicality in war, as metal that highly reflective probably will get you killed... but nice none the less.

At the STS memorial, I saw two guards, and I told my gf "Sweetie, those are called M1-Garands. They fire 30-06's in a 8 round clip." The guards are not suppose to move, but when I said that (in english) the guard winked at me.

As for the martial arts... Well, I know a bit of wrestling and jujitsu... But I guess I can carry a picture of Rosie O'Donnell in my wallet, and use it as a last resort...

Albert

**4V50 Gary** · December 30, 2001, 04:21 PM

My dream is for the Taiwanese gubmint to make semi-auto M-14s and sell them to us. Darn if we didn't sell them the machinery and tooling to begin with.

ATTICUS · December 30, 2001, 05:09 PM

Be careful over there. Your assumptions about getting attacked by thugs are real. My cousin lived there about ten years ago. One night, while out partying, he was attacked by a thug. Unfortunately for the thug, my cousin was a bad*ss and killed him (literally). After many months of trials and negotiations my cousin was deported.

Fred Hansen · December 30, 2001, 05:40 PM

Thug 0 Atticus' Cousin 1

falconer · December 30, 2001, 10:21 PM

The cops there carry? heh, you'd think I'd know that since I know some of the academy instructors. Now that I think about it, I was told the gun thing by someone else. Where at in Taiwan will you be staying? Taipei? Tainan?

Skorzeny · December 30, 2001, 10:33 PM

twolink:

Quote:

They require every high school student to take a class (women also) in rifle proficiency, and every man has to serve in the military for at least 2 years. BUT, you can't own a gun!! How weird is that??

It's not weird at all. Taiwan is a very statist society. A statist society demands universal conscription since, ultimately, the state, not the people, have the power. At the same time, a statist society does not believe in the common man owning arms and "being a threat" to the concentration of power.

Until recently, the previous ruling party, Kuomingtang (Nationalists), was the only political party allowed. KMT was initially organized along Leninist-Marxist lines and received active Soviet support (before the fallout with the communists). "The Economist" recently pointed out that, while bitter rivals, KMT and the mainland communists are very similar.

Taiwan may be "capitalistic," but it is a very corrupt society where the government and the KMT have a hand in a lot of economic pot.

Singapore - now there is a truly capitalistic and clean (both literally and figuratively) society. Singapore ranks top five in Transparency International (corruption free index) every year (along with New Zealand and Finland), easily beating our own country (the US).

But even in Singapore (where shotgunning is allowed though very tightly regulated), the state is benevolent-paternalistic and ruled by well-educated bureaucrats. It's probably the closest thing to Plato's "Republic" on earth.

Skorzeny

croyance · December 31, 2001, 02:57 AM

I believe this is why the 1911 is known as "the great equalizer". Please correct me if I named the wrong gun.

As to the issue of butterfly knives, this is true in many states. This is another case of politicians doing something silly to look useful. Remember all those action movies in the '80s? Maybe you don't if you are going to college right now. At any rate, the bg's would quite often use butterfly knives. So politicians in some areas outlawed butterfly knives, throwing stars, and other assorted martial arts weapons "for public safety". Nevermind that actually opening a butterfly knife under stress takes significant practice, and the fact that an observant person would just run or clock the bg in the jaw before said weapon was deployed.

Quartus · December 31, 2001, 07:14 AM

twoblink, are you in the PRK.... ooops, just realized my mistake.

I'm in the PRC, and I thought we could get together maybe. I'm in Guangzhou, which is the capital of the old Canton province.

Believe me folks, bad as Kali is, it ain't the PRC.

Gotta get a pic of the local armored car folks making a pickup at the bank. It's hilarious. Picture a skinny kid with a .32 doing his best to look menacing.

bmwguy · December 31, 2001, 09:48 AM

Stay away from the big barber shops in Taiwan!

Hemicuda · December 31, 2001, 11:53 AM

you got the MANUFACTURE right... it IS a Colt...

but the gun to which you refer is the Sam Colt SA revolver...

it, because of it's desighn, and "mass" production, and REASONABLY low cost was called "The Great Equalizer"...

John E White · December 31, 2001, 03:31 PM

A dog can be red or black and it's still a dog. The same goes for communism (China) and facism (Taiwan). Some call Taiwanese facism "nationalism". Their primary concern is controlling the masses with no idividuality or real freedom. Keep in step or be exiled or worse. First step is to disarm the public and then you have control. It's an old story. But they make cheap products (for now) so our government supports them both.

Skorzeny · December 31, 2001, 04:26 PM

John E White:

Not quite. Taiwan, while corrupt, has done much to become more representative of its population. There is a flourishing opposition politics of sorts. People are "more free" in Taiwan than in PRC.

PRC is still an authoritarian state with absolutely no opposition political parties, no freedom of assembly and no freedom of religion.

Skorzeny

twoblink · January 1, 2002, 09:38 AM

They are beginning to deregulate.. and people are liking it.. soo... they are making progress (somewhat). Also, tax is low.

Taiwan government is facist. But the people are capitalists, so it's a weird mix..

Let me tell ya all a dirty little secret. We SOLD a lot of our military surplus M14's to taiwan. My friend's in taiwan had US headstamps on it.. soo...

Thugs are common in taiwan. I'm thinking cryance is right.. so I'm thinking about bringing a folding Emerson knife with me to taiwan... Tanto tipped..

Albert

Skunkabilly · October 20, 2002, 11:14 PM

Quote:

The presentation guards carry chrome M1-Garands that look awesome but probably have little practicality in war, as metal that highly reflective probably will get you killed... but nice none the less.

Send me a pic of one will ya? A two tone Garand...tactically delicious!

Dave R · October 20, 2002, 11:35 PM

"The gun I've realized is the great equalizer, it empowers someone to defend themself, regardless of size, age, or gender."

That's the crux of the whole matter.

Ya gotta wonder why that bothers the anti-gunners so much.

jason10mm · October 21, 2002, 09:57 AM

I took a few Tawianese friends shooting a few years back. It is true, they all get some basic rifle proficiency, but they had never touched a pistol or even seen a shotgun before. They were totally flabergasted when I took them to the range and busted out the limited inventory I had back then. I think we shot a 9mm ruger (rented), a .357 revolver, a 1911, and a 12 guage shotgun. Boy were they pumped! Got in my pro-gun remarks as well, so maybe if there is a change in their politics towards more gun ownership (yeah, right!!), those 2 will be on our side. LAter.

December 30, 2001, 08:28 AM	#1
twoblink Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 1999 Location: Taipei, Taiwan Posts: 2,031	A lesson from Taiwan I just got back from Taiwan (best food on earth!!) but it's a country where you can't own guns. Very strange.. and for those who are born and live in America and have never travelled outside the US, let me give you a little idea of what it's like. Now Taiwanese people are very capitalistic, (when it comes to taxes) everything else, they are socialists. Government controls phones, utilities, transportation, liquor (the rice wine shortage there is just a joke) BATF-esque stuff... Well, basically everything is rulely, until you get little common street thugs. They require every high school student to take a class (women also) in rifle proficiency, and every man has to serve in the military for at least 2 years. BUT, you can't own a gun!! How weird is that?? So nobody except police and military can own guns. So when you get into a arguement on the freeway, you'd better run, because the other punk thug kid probably has a baseball bat, a knife, or an illegal gun. It is very strange and stupid; everybody is afraid of the local thugs because they have no real way of protecting themselves. If a rape was happening there, 9 out of 10 guys won't stop to help, because they will probably get beaten up. The gun I've realized is the great equalizer, it empowers someone to defend themself, regardless of size, age, or gender. I will be going there to study for a year next year, and I seriously worry about my own safety.. I guess it'll have to be dual butterfly knives for me while I'm there... Which brings me to yet the other paradox of this dumba$$ of Kalifornia. Let me understand this, I can own a gun, but I can't own a butterfly knife?? Of course, the liberal response to that question is : "Yes, it doesn't make sense, that's why we want to try to make it so you can't own a gun either." I just came back from a country where it's citizens are unarmed. It's not a good thing. Everybody fears for their life, and nobody can do anything about it. In case you all wondered; the presentation guards at the monuments and memorials all carry M1-Garands. The Taiwan army trains with M-14's. Albert. __________________ "An unarmed society is one that's ripe for tyranny and oppression."

December 30, 2001, 08:42 AM	#2
yankytrash Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2001 Location: Farnham, Va Posts: 2,176	twoblink - You are one hell of a glutten for punishment ain't ya?! Live the PRK and take vacations to Taiwan.....jeesh, what's next? Apply for an FFL in NYC? __________________ Right turn, Clyde.

December 30, 2001, 12:05 PM	#4
twoblink Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 1999 Location: Taipei, Taiwan Posts: 2,031	Actually, I was thinking of trying to sell some Afgans some xmas cards, or introducing them to Coca-cola... They (taiwanese cops) seem to have a thing for Beretta's and Walthers... The officers there all carry HK-P7's as their sidearms.. The presentation guards carry chrome M1-Garands that look awesome but probably have little practicality in war, as metal that highly reflective probably will get you killed... but nice none the less. At the STS memorial, I saw two guards, and I told my gf "Sweetie, those are called M1-Garands. They fire 30-06's in a 8 round clip." The guards are not suppose to move, but when I said that (in english) the guard winked at me. As for the martial arts... Well, I know a bit of wrestling and jujitsu... But I guess I can carry a picture of Rosie O'Donnell in my wallet, and use it as a last resort... Albert __________________ "An unarmed society is one that's ripe for tyranny and oppression."

December 30, 2001, 04:21 PM	#5
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: California Posts: 13,263	My dream is for the Taiwanese gubmint to make semi-auto M-14s and sell them to us. Darn if we didn't sell them the machinery and tooling to begin with. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

December 30, 2001, 05:09 PM	#6
ATTICUS Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 1999 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 2,103	Be careful over there. Your assumptions about getting attacked by thugs are real. My cousin lived there about ten years ago. One night, while out partying, he was attacked by a thug. Unfortunately for the thug, my cousin was a bad*ss and killed him (literally). After many months of trials and negotiations my cousin was deported. __________________ Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain

December 30, 2001, 09:39 AM	#3
falconer Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: somewhere Posts: 547	Actually, most of their police do not carry guns. This is why every cop they have has to become a blackbelt in shuai chiao before they can graduated from the Central Police University. You definately have to watch out for the local gangsters, and it wouldn't hurt to make friends with some people in the Ching Society. While you are there, I highly recommend that you take advantage of some of the highly skilled martial arts teachers there. Send me a PM and I'll see if I can put you in contact with one of my "uncles".

December 30, 2001, 05:40 PM	#7
Fred Hansen Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2001 Location: The middle of WWIII Posts: 3,340	Thug 0 Atticus' Cousin 1 __________________ "This started out as a documentary on gun violence in America, but the largest mass murder in our history was just committed -- without the use of a single gun! Not a single bullet fired! No bomb was set off, no missile was fired, no weapon (i.e., a device that was solely and specifically manufactured to kill humans) was used. A boxcutter! -- I can't stop thinking about this. A thousand gun control laws would not have prevented this massacre. What am I doing?" Michael Moore

December 30, 2001, 10:21 PM	#8
falconer Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: somewhere Posts: 547	The cops there carry? heh, you'd think I'd know that since I know some of the academy instructors. Now that I think about it, I was told the gun thing by someone else. Where at in Taiwan will you be staying? Taipei? Tainan?

December 31, 2001, 02:57 AM	#10
croyance Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2001 Posts: 3,604	I believe this is why the 1911 is known as "the great equalizer". Please correct me if I named the wrong gun. As to the issue of butterfly knives, this is true in many states. This is another case of politicians doing something silly to look useful. Remember all those action movies in the '80s? Maybe you don't if you are going to college right now. At any rate, the bg's would quite often use butterfly knives. So politicians in some areas outlawed butterfly knives, throwing stars, and other assorted martial arts weapons "for public safety". Nevermind that actually opening a butterfly knife under stress takes significant practice, and the fact that an observant person would just run or clock the bg in the jaw before said weapon was deployed.

December 31, 2001, 07:14 AM	#11
Quartus Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,838	twoblink, are you in the PRK.... ooops, just realized my mistake. I'm in the PRC, and I thought we could get together maybe. I'm in Guangzhou, which is the capital of the old Canton province. Believe me folks, bad as Kali is, it ain't the PRC. Gotta get a pic of the local armored car folks making a pickup at the bank. It's hilarious. Picture a skinny kid with a .32 doing his best to look menacing. __________________ . Better to know what you don't know than to think you know what you don't know.

December 31, 2001, 09:48 AM	#12
bmwguy Member Join Date: December 11, 2001 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 78	Stay away from the big barber shops in Taiwan!

December 31, 2001, 11:53 AM	#13
Hemicuda Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,759	croyance... you got the MANUFACTURE right... it IS a Colt... but the gun to which you refer is the Sam Colt SA revolver... it, because of it's desighn, and "mass" production, and REASONABLY low cost was called "The Great Equalizer"... __________________ Hemi. gun and car collector. Rare cars, and rarer guns.

December 31, 2001, 03:31 PM	#14
John E White Junior Member Join Date: December 27, 2001 Posts: 12	China vs Taiwan A dog can be red or black and it's still a dog. The same goes for communism (China) and facism (Taiwan). Some call Taiwanese facism "nationalism". Their primary concern is controlling the masses with no idividuality or real freedom. Keep in step or be exiled or worse. First step is to disarm the public and then you have control. It's an old story. But they make cheap products (for now) so our government supports them both.

December 31, 2001, 04:26 PM	#15
Skorzeny Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 1999 Posts: 1,938	John E White: Not quite. Taiwan, while corrupt, has done much to become more representative of its population. There is a flourishing opposition politics of sorts. People are "more free" in Taiwan than in PRC. PRC is still an authoritarian state with absolutely no opposition political parties, no freedom of assembly and no freedom of religion. Skorzeny __________________ For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu

January 1, 2002, 09:38 AM	#16
twoblink Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 1999 Location: Taipei, Taiwan Posts: 2,031	They are beginning to deregulate.. and people are liking it.. soo... they are making progress (somewhat). Also, tax is low. Taiwan government is facist. But the people are capitalists, so it's a weird mix.. Let me tell ya all a dirty little secret. We SOLD a lot of our military surplus M14's to taiwan. My friend's in taiwan had US headstamps on it.. soo... Thugs are common in taiwan. I'm thinking cryance is right.. so I'm thinking about bringing a folding Emerson knife with me to taiwan... Tanto tipped.. Albert __________________ "An unarmed society is one that's ripe for tyranny and oppression."

October 20, 2002, 11:35 PM	#18
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,405	"The gun I've realized is the great equalizer, it empowers someone to defend themself, regardless of size, age, or gender." That's the crux of the whole matter. Ya gotta wonder why that bothers the anti-gunners so much. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

October 21, 2002, 09:57 AM	#19
jason10mm Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2001 Location: San Antonio, Tx Posts: 231	I took a few Tawianese friends shooting a few years back. It is true, they all get some basic rifle proficiency, but they had never touched a pistol or even seen a shotgun before. They were totally flabergasted when I took them to the range and busted out the limited inventory I had back then. I think we shot a 9mm ruger (rented), a .357 revolver, a 1911, and a 12 guage shotgun. Boy were they pumped! Got in my pro-gun remarks as well, so maybe if there is a change in their politics towards more gun ownership (yeah, right!!), those 2 will be on our side. LAter.