U of Utah Gun bans/turn fiesty (2 stories)

[Goet]

Battle Lines: Lawmakers Target Gun Ban
http://www.sltrib.com/01152002/utah/167639.htm

Tuesday, January 15, 2002


BY DAN HARRIE
THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

Utah lawmakers moved Monday to wipe out rules banning guns, including legally concealed weapons, at the nine state universities and colleges. Even so, the state's flagship school, the University of Utah, vowed again to take the dispute to court.
The Legislature's Administrative Rules Review Committee voted unanimously in favor of abolishing college policies and rules prohibiting students, faculty and staff from taking guns onto campus. Members of the panel, including House Speaker Marty Stephens and Senate President Al Mansell, said the gun bans violate state law allowing unrestricted access in most public places by concealed-weapon permit holders.
Stephens, R-Farr West, said it was irrelevant whether university administrators, legislators or a majority of the public disagreed with Utah's permissive concealed-carry statutes.
"As elected officials of this state, I don't think we have a lot of choice in what we have to do here," said Stephens. "It appears to me we have no choice but to sunset these rules because they were created in violation of state law."
After the committee voted, U. attorney John Morris said that action, even if approved by the full Legislature, would not change his school's student and employee codes of conduct because those are internal standards that do not qualify as state rules authorized by specific state law.
Besides, said U. spokeswoman Nancy Lyon, "We have a gentlemen's agreement [with the Attorney General's Office] to take it to court for a declaratory judgment."
Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff and legislative attorneys have issued formal opinions stating that it is illegal to ban licensed concealed weapons anywhere other than "secure areas" specified in statute. Those designated areas include jails and prisons, courts, airports, mental health facilities and Olympics venues. Churches and private residences also can ban guns by posting notice.
Officials from Utah's nine public institutions of higher education paraded before the committee Monday defending the gun bans that most of them have adopted through student and employee policies or codes of conduct.
Leading the charge against guns on campus was U. President Bernie Machen, who said he was unwilling to rescind his school's 20-year-old policy.
"Classrooms, libraries, dormitories and cafeterias are no place for lethal weapons," Machen told the panel of mostly pro-gun legislators. "Their very presence would interfere with the essential functions of a university."
Machen said the fear of guns could chill the open debate that is at the core of academic freedom, and he said the constitutional guarantee of free speech superseded any statute by the Legislature that could interfere with it.
He questioned why lawmakers are tackling this prickly issue now, when there is no urgency and while the Olympics has riveted the world's attention on the state and any perceived quirks in its culture.
"I can only conclude that since the majority of the faculty, staff and students at the U. -- and, indeed, most of the citizens of Utah -- don't want guns in the classroom, the only people calling for them are the gun advocates who want to impose their will on our campuses," he said. "It would be unfortunate if their views prevail, with the world's attention focused on Salt Lake City. That would, I fear, only reinforce negative stereotypical images that could be made while we are holding the Winter Olympic Games."
House Committee Chairman Dave Ure, R-Kamas, protested Machen's citing of public opinion polls to justify his position, saying popularity had nothing to do with the gun-ban policy's legality.
Machen refused to back down, retorting, "The Legislature is here to serve the will of the people . . . Serve the people and let us keep doing what we've been doing for 30 years."
Committee member Sen. Mike Waddoups, R-Taylorsville, sponsor of the state's 1995 concealed-weapons laws, said the U. has deliberately defied the law for years. Gun-rights activists agreed. "This is a simple act of insubordination," said gun owner Terry Trease.



related story

Shea, Gun Activist in Standoff
Tuesday, January 15, 2002

Spangler
BY DAN HARRIE
and GREG BURTON
THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

A legislative hearing on state gun policy was disrupted Monday by name-calling and an alleged assault Monday involving a former official in the Clinton administration and a Utah gun-rights advocate.
Pat Shea, former director of the federal Bureau of Land Management, grabbed the chair of gun activist John Spangler and the two verbally jousted during a morning session of the Legislature's Administrative Rules Review Com- mittee.
The incident is under investigation, said Lt. Jim Keith, head of Capitol security.
Shea and Spangler agree the confrontation occurred immediately after Shea testified before the pro-gun rights committee in defense of the University of Utah's gun ban when Spangler called Shea an "a-- hole," although their stories diverge on most other details.
Spangler said he silently mouthed the epithet in response to Shea's muttered comment that legislators were "idiots."
Spangler said he wants to press assault charges against Shea, claiming Shea "shoved" him and "dumped" him on the floor by toppling his chair while Spangler was still seated in it.
In a written statement filed with Utah Highway Patrol Sgt. Kevin Rhoades, Spangler called the tussle an "attack" and quoted Shea as saying, "Did you call me an a-- hole? Let's go outside and settle this! Come on, let's go! Don't you have your concealed weapon? Let's go outside."
Spangler said he did not say anything in response and "did not resist in any way."
Shea, an attorney, also gave a statement to the UHP, but dismissed the incident as nothing serious.
He said Spangler called him a name and then started standing up, at which point Shea said he pulled the chair, as if getting it out of the way.
"I didn't touch him," he said in an interview, adding he did not know whether Spangler fell.
"I did not use any profanity," Shea said. "I said, 'Why don't you take out your concealed weapon and take care of this.' He [Spangler] uttered a few profanities."
Committee members sat in stunned silence during the altercation, then House Committee Chairman Dave Ure, R-Kamas, called for adjournment for lunch after the pair "broke it up" on their own, said Ure.
Senate Committee Chairman Howard Stephenson, R-Draper, said he did nothing because, "I was in such shock."
"They were having a heated exchange. Then Shea started lifting up on [Spangler's] chair and shaking it around," said Stephenson, adding he had never seen such a confrontation in his nine years in the Legislature.
"It was a surprise to me because Pat Shea has always been a model of decorum and dignity," said Stephenson.
Sen. Mike Waddoups, R-Taylorsville, called the spectacle "offensive."
"It was two grown-ups acting like little children," said Waddoups. "Shea gave him a little push; at most a push-hit -- with not as much force as Shaquille O'Neal. But it was offensive."

[MatthewM]

Many liberals fear others possessing guns because they know themselves to be violent and out of control, unsafe to own a gun. They project their own evil personalities onto others and then feel fearful of those imagined others.

[tyme]

Oh, so now it's not road rage that will cause blood to run in the streets, but papers, lectures, and debates?

Silly university, weapon-free zones are for kids.

[striderteen]

Hooray! Case law precedent! Now I can challenge the gun ban here at Caltech!!!

[444]

That is impressive.
Is this for real ? It is almost to much for me to believe that any government officals would say and do anything like this.

[mpthole]

I especially love the quote:

Leading the charge against guns on campus was U. President Bernie Machen, who said he was unwilling to rescind his school's 20-year-old policy. "Classrooms, libraries, dormitories and cafeterias are no place for lethal weapons," Machen told the panel of mostly pro-gun legislators. "Their very presence would interfere with the essential functions of a university".

... in light of what just happened at a Colorado library.

Woman Stabbed at Denver Library

[Goet]

Colorado?

Uncle Bernie need only look downtown to the Geneological library where some nut lady went in a few years ago and shot the place up.

The guards were unarmed.


On a related note, here's a letter to the editor from the paper today:


Letter to the Editor: Campus Gunb Supporters Are Off Target
By Adam Blake, Senior, Physics

Editor:

When I first heard about the gun debate, I thought it would be a mute point. Responsible gun owners already know that the campus is no place for guns. Don't get me wrong, there are many places where guns are appropriate, and I completely support the right to bear arms. However, it seems our capacity to utilize technology has once again surpassed the amount of responsibility it takes to use it properly.

I have a couple of quick points to make. One: Guns do not offer you protection on campus. If you think that, you are fooling yourself. Ask the pistol team how long it takes to take an accurate shot. In the case of an attack, you wouldn't have time to pull a gun, especially if you are carrying it with the safety on. Delusions of a heroic stand with a gun saving you from your attacker come from watching too much television.

Two: Safety requires attention to many different details, no one solution will buy it for you. You cannot buy safety in a can. People give many excuses for why guns do ensure safety. Intimidation is often cited, which is the greatest reason guns should not be allowed on campus.

Simply put, "those who have the ability to protect themselves" would never turn to a gun in any of the close quarter situations they could get into on campus. They might carry a gun in their glove compartment, but even that is stretching it.

There is no place on campus for weapons of any sort. If campus authorities want to help students protect themselves, they should offer classes on hand to hand combat. Personally, however, I think the U is a school of learning, not a commando training center.

Adam Blake, Senior, Physics

[Goet]

And some editorial "satire" that has been on their website for the last week.

New Gun Policy Frightens Professor
Student Says It Should
By Elvis Faucett, Comical Editor in Chief

Professor Ralph Schwartz has a recurring dream of a group of students standing at attention. The one on the far right wears a diabolical smile and says, "here is your course evaluation. Ready, aim, fire."

Schwartz wakes up in a cold sweat every night since he heard that state lawmakers plan to repeal the U's no-gun policy.

He twitches when a student drops a pen and the old threats of "give me an A or I will kill you" have new meaning.

"I know I've been a jerk to some students in the past. If those students can carry weapons on campus, I am in big trouble," he said.

Joey Harmon agrees.

He has cleaned his 9mm handgun 15 times in the past week so he can start taking it to Schwartz's architecture class.

"This pretty little thing is not meant to kill anything. It is meant to protect me from all of the predators who feed on the innocent students of the U," said Harmon.

Harmon later said he was not talking about parking services, but criminals and yes, Schwartz.

"I have a few professors who would probably treat me with more respect if I let them get a peak at Betsy. I call it Betsy," he said holding his firearm.

Harmon is one of a few thousand students who have started packing concealed weapons to class.

This is exactly what U President Bernie Machen didn't want to see.

Faculty attending class in fear, while students entering class feeling the power that comes with carrying a loaded weapon.

He has always pictured a campus more focused on education than gun rights, religion and wealthy donors. He also wishes he had all of his hair, but then again Machen doesn't normally get what he wants.

However, Machen is not sulking in the defeat.

"If you can't beat the idiots, join them," he said.

Starting next academic year, every student must take a gun-safety course. The U will also create the firearms department that will educate students about guns and gun rights. The department will hire faculty using a $5 million gift from the National Rifle Association. Charlton Heston will be the acting department chairman.

All of this makes Schwartz even more upset.

"Guns kill people, people kill people, and I am worried that a person with a gun will kill me," he said.



Disclaimer: The Comical is pure satire and appears at the beginning of every week on The Chronicle's Web site. Please take the stories as jokes and don't call your lawyer. Thanks.

[AmericaFirst]

Seems like nothing has changed.
There is really 2 ( or more) Americas.
Shea gets away with lots of stuff like bringing a loaded TEC-9 into the studios of KUTV on a show hosted by Rod Decker Take 2 when he ran for Governor, it was concealed in a bag too.

That was a CRIME. He got away with it.