US Marine Corps trial new rifle in Afghanistan

dZ · January 18, 2002, 01:32 PM

US Marine Corps trial new rifle in Afghanistan

http://defence-data.com/current/page13300.htm
17 January 2002

Marines from the US 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable) are field-testing the Corps' latest addition to its arsenal, the Designated Marksman Rifle M-14, in the desert around Kandahar in Afghanistan.

Marine Corps weapons' experts have coupled older match-grade M-14 rifle barrels, already in service, with a modern, fibreglass stock that offers the shooter an ergonomic pistol grip. The 7.62mm barrels were also retrofitted to accept a suppressor. The weather-resistant stock has a scope rail to accommodate different sights. Spacer plates and adjustable cheek pieces were incorporated into the design to allow an individual shooter to custom fit the 36-inch long, 15-lb. rifle. The DMR has a maximum effective range of 1,000 meters and accepts a 20-round magazine.

The DMR is the creation of several precision weapons repairmen from Marine Corps Combat Development Command, Quantico in Virginia.

"This ain't your standard issue rifle. Every piece is fitted by hand. We've made nine so far and eight of them are here. It is a perfect weapon for security from the high ground and ideal for [Fleet Anti-terrorist Security Team] companies, military police and explosive ordnance disposal technicians," said Sgt. Dalton P. Baker, a precision weapons repairman. "It offers a happy medium between the M16A2 and the M40 [sniper rifle]."

Baker estimates that by using older components to fabricate the DMR, they are saving the Corps a significant amount of money, especially considering the cost of research and development required to field such arms.

"A commercial equivalent would cost somewhere between twenty-eight and thirty-two thousand dollars a piece," he said. "We can build this rifle in two days, mostly because it takes 24 hours for the [fibreglass] epoxy to dry, and it only costs a little more than six hundred dollars in materials."

Baker also touted another advantage of the DMR. "We've simplified repairs so that all armourers can perform [low level] maintenance," he said.

by Sgt. Andrew D. Pomykal US Marine Corps

i thought these looked
"unique" when i saw them last week:
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com...tary_ny191.jpg

Kharn · January 18, 2002, 01:49 PM

Couldn't they have told us about this rifle BEFORE Christmas?

Kharn

Master Blaster · January 18, 2002, 02:28 PM

Since it only costs $600 It will not be selected.
What constituent of a powerful congress critter will make money on this?

It will not be selected for use because it is not procurred through normal channels(pocket lining anyone?)

Redlg155 · January 18, 2002, 02:28 PM

Quote:

"A commercial equivalent would cost somewhere between twenty-eight and thirty-two thousand dollars a piece," he said.

Nice rifle, but he's gotta be kidding! $4000-$5000 thousand perhaps..but it's not that special!

Good Shooting
RED

C.R.Sam · January 18, 2002, 02:43 PM

Contract for prototype to ACALA might run that much.

Specially if someone bidding has multiple 5% advantages.

Sam

OJ · January 18, 2002, 02:46 PM

Right! Match grade M1As go for under $3000.00 and standard versions come with synthetic stocks.

kelly mcmillan · January 18, 2002, 03:05 PM

You guys are right, it's a match grade M-14 with one of our M2A stocks on it. Retail price on the stock is 726.00 installed. I think the 600.00 refered to was their cost on the stock and a new barrel. They have Corp armors doing the work so their salaries aren't factored into the equation. As for it costing 25K, that comes from a man that works for the government that has no idea what goes on in the real world. Odd thing is that this "New" rifle has been in developement for some time. We started working with them on this project in 1995. We actually sold them the stock a couple of years ago.

Schmit · January 18, 2002, 03:20 PM

Well it is about time!!!

I first remember reading about a DMR back in IIRC 95 when the concept and its employment was proposed in an article. I was immediatly on side of it being adapted and watched the published debates till my retirement.

I've forgotten at what level they were going to field this rifle (Squad, Platoon, or Company level), I think it was at the Platoon level giving each company 3 DMRs.

IMO the DMR is going to be an outstanding asset and give an additional option that would otherwise not be able to be filled... unless you assign critical scout/snipers (who have other mission requirement needing to be filled by a Battalion CO.)

Poodleshooter · January 18, 2002, 03:55 PM

Didn't the Army call their M-14 based sniper platforms the"M-24" back in the Vietnam days? They used to scope them with the old ART and ART II's right??

rock_jock · January 18, 2002, 04:21 PM

$600?? Where do I place my order?

MeekAndMild · January 18, 2002, 04:55 PM

Quote:

You guys are right, it's a match grade M-14 with one of our M2A stocks on it.

OK, why would someone prefer an M2A style stock rather than the traditional M1A style? It would seem to my poor ignorant self that the pistol grip stock gives an odd wrist angle rather than the more normal angle of the M1A style unless one is sitting at a bench. What do you do with your elbow then you're down on the dirt shooting an M2A?
http://www.mcmfamily.com/mfsinc_n/tac.html

kelly mcmillan · January 18, 2002, 05:08 PM

We actually used an M16 pistol grip when designing the stock, because that was what was asked for. When shooting prone, there in enough rearward angle to allow the shooter to comfortably engage the trigger, almost like you are shaking hands. Shooting the standard style stock from the prone position creates almost a 90 degree angle at the wrist and hinders straight trigger pull. These are all theories discussed during the design of the stock. When choosing a stock for this project the Marines tested the standrd stock, the M2A and the M3A. We made the M3A to be almost identical to the A-3 bolt gun stock so that the rifles would have a similar feel in the event the shooters cross trained. Good concept, but they didn't buy it.

Dr.Rob · January 18, 2002, 06:55 PM

Don't think I've ever seen a spotter packing a shotgun.

uglygun · January 18, 2002, 07:13 PM

What I'm wondering is just how this rifle differs to a comparable accurized M14 like say an M25, I'm wondering how they worked over the gun other than stock used and sound suppressor. Other than stock is it really all that different, that's what I'm wondering. Seems that back when the M25 project was going on a lot was learned in the way of making a really accurate M14 based rifle, I can't imagine the action getting anymore perfect except for a change to the stock to go with a better design. Could it have been so simple as for them to get the M25 prints and say, "okay, we're gonna copy everything here up until we bed the action into a stock, that is what we're gonna change."

And to suggest that a similar rifle being manufactured and sold on the civilian market would go for more than 3-4k, that was just too funny. I could invision a M1A built to be as close to M25 specs as possible(not the Springfield WhiteFeather thing) coming out to around 2500-3000 for just the rifle simply because of what must go into making such a rifle, loads of work mixed with lots of expensive parts. Still though, it's nice to see the M14 still seeing service. Wonder if they decided to go back to the M14 action after seeing the Knights SR25s have fits in a similar environment during Desert Storm?

Poodleshooter, the rifle you are thinking about should be the M21. It was an accurized M14 set in a laminated wood stock I believe, was pretty good in the day but was temperature and climate sensitive. The M25 helped to do away with some of that by moving to a synthetic stock and a few other improvements were made for the sake of accuracy. That's kinda why I huff and puff at the Springfield "White Feather" M25, the M21 should have seen service during the time that Carlos Hathcock was active duty and it's likely that he was very familiar with how to use the rifle. The M25 is likely a gun he never laid hands on as an active duty Marine, but I'm just knit picking, I do like the picatinny mount that Springfield put on their M25 but I don't think it's following military specifications for the M25.

The M24 should be the current Army sniper rifle built on the Remington 700 long action, chambered for 308Winchester but capable of being built to house the 300WinMag if they ever decide to make the switch.

dZ · January 18, 2002, 08:47 PM

heres some current M40A3 in action shots:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20...ary_ny184.html
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20...ary_ny185.html
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20...ary_ny180.html

January 18, 2002, 01:32 PM	#1
dZ Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: the Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,565	US Marine Corps trial new rifle in Afghanistan US Marine Corps trial new rifle in Afghanistan http://defence-data.com/current/page13300.htm 17 January 2002 Marines from the US 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable) are field-testing the Corps' latest addition to its arsenal, the Designated Marksman Rifle M-14, in the desert around Kandahar in Afghanistan. Marine Corps weapons' experts have coupled older match-grade M-14 rifle barrels, already in service, with a modern, fibreglass stock that offers the shooter an ergonomic pistol grip. The 7.62mm barrels were also retrofitted to accept a suppressor. The weather-resistant stock has a scope rail to accommodate different sights. Spacer plates and adjustable cheek pieces were incorporated into the design to allow an individual shooter to custom fit the 36-inch long, 15-lb. rifle. The DMR has a maximum effective range of 1,000 meters and accepts a 20-round magazine. The DMR is the creation of several precision weapons repairmen from Marine Corps Combat Development Command, Quantico in Virginia. "This ain't your standard issue rifle. Every piece is fitted by hand. We've made nine so far and eight of them are here. It is a perfect weapon for security from the high ground and ideal for [Fleet Anti-terrorist Security Team] companies, military police and explosive ordnance disposal technicians," said Sgt. Dalton P. Baker, a precision weapons repairman. "It offers a happy medium between the M16A2 and the M40 [sniper rifle]." Baker estimates that by using older components to fabricate the DMR, they are saving the Corps a significant amount of money, especially considering the cost of research and development required to field such arms. "A commercial equivalent would cost somewhere between twenty-eight and thirty-two thousand dollars a piece," he said. "We can build this rifle in two days, mostly because it takes 24 hours for the [fibreglass] epoxy to dry, and it only costs a little more than six hundred dollars in materials." Baker also touted another advantage of the DMR. "We've simplified repairs so that all armourers can perform [low level] maintenance," he said. by Sgt. Andrew D. Pomykal US Marine Corps i thought these looked "unique" when i saw them last week: http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com...tary_ny191.jpg __________________ "O tell the Lacedomecians to damn the torpedoes." BOTR, Chapter V: Some Monsters

January 18, 2002, 02:28 PM	#3
Master Blaster Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: One of the original 13 Colonies Posts: 2,018	Since it only costs $600 It will not be selected. What constituent of a powerful congress critter will make money on this? It will not be selected for use because it is not procurred through normal channels(pocket lining anyone?) __________________ The difference between Democrats and Republicans is like the difference between a poop sandwich, and a poop Sandwich with mustard.

January 18, 2002, 02:46 PM	#6
OJ Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 1998 Location: COLORADO SPRINGS, CO, USA Posts: 1,174	Right! Match grade M1As go for under $3000.00 and standard versions come with synthetic stocks. __________________ OJ - SEMPER FI - NRA ENDOWMENT MEMBER,MEMBER GOA, JPFO, CSSA CHARTER LIFE MEMBER AMA (MOTORCYCLIST) Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap - life is expensive.

January 18, 2002, 03:20 PM	#8
Schmit Staff Alumnus Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: Masquito infested flatlands of Mid-FL Posts: 1,858	Well it is about time!!! I first remember reading about a DMR back in IIRC 95 when the concept and its employment was proposed in an article. I was immediatly on side of it being adapted and watched the published debates till my retirement. I've forgotten at what level they were going to field this rifle (Squad, Platoon, or Company level), I think it was at the Platoon level giving each company 3 DMRs. IMO the DMR is going to be an outstanding asset and give an additional option that would otherwise not be able to be filled... unless you assign critical scout/snipers (who have other mission requirement needing to be filled by a Battalion CO.) __________________ Schmit GySgt, USMC(Ret) "Notoriety is fleeting, Anonymity is forever!"

January 18, 2002, 06:55 PM	#13
Dr.Rob Staff Alumnus Join Date: July 28, 1999 Location: Denver Posts: 2,457	Don't think I've ever seen a spotter packing a shotgun. __________________ You broke into the wrong Rec Room!

January 18, 2002, 01:49 PM	#2
Kharn Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,532	Couldn't they have told us about this rifle BEFORE Christmas? Kharn

January 18, 2002, 02:43 PM	#5
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,876	Contract for prototype to ACALA might run that much. Specially if someone bidding has multiple 5% advantages. Sam

January 18, 2002, 03:05 PM	#7
kelly mcmillan Member Join Date: January 10, 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 19	You guys are right, it's a match grade M-14 with one of our M2A stocks on it. Retail price on the stock is 726.00 installed. I think the 600.00 refered to was their cost on the stock and a new barrel. They have Corp armors doing the work so their salaries aren't factored into the equation. As for it costing 25K, that comes from a man that works for the government that has no idea what goes on in the real world. Odd thing is that this "New" rifle has been in developement for some time. We started working with them on this project in 1995. We actually sold them the stock a couple of years ago.

January 18, 2002, 03:55 PM	#9
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 1,940	Didn't the Army call their M-14 based sniper platforms the"M-24" back in the Vietnam days? They used to scope them with the old ART and ART II's right??

January 18, 2002, 04:21 PM	#10
rock_jock Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Location: SE Texas Posts: 1,789	$600?? Where do I place my order?

January 18, 2002, 05:08 PM	#12
kelly mcmillan Member Join Date: January 10, 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 19	We actually used an M16 pistol grip when designing the stock, because that was what was asked for. When shooting prone, there in enough rearward angle to allow the shooter to comfortably engage the trigger, almost like you are shaking hands. Shooting the standard style stock from the prone position creates almost a 90 degree angle at the wrist and hinders straight trigger pull. These are all theories discussed during the design of the stock. When choosing a stock for this project the Marines tested the standrd stock, the M2A and the M3A. We made the M3A to be almost identical to the A-3 bolt gun stock so that the rifles would have a similar feel in the event the shooters cross trained. Good concept, but they didn't buy it.

January 18, 2002, 07:13 PM	#14
uglygun Senior Member Join Date: March 27, 2001 Location: Cowpie Ca Posts: 554	What I'm wondering is just how this rifle differs to a comparable accurized M14 like say an M25, I'm wondering how they worked over the gun other than stock used and sound suppressor. Other than stock is it really all that different, that's what I'm wondering. Seems that back when the M25 project was going on a lot was learned in the way of making a really accurate M14 based rifle, I can't imagine the action getting anymore perfect except for a change to the stock to go with a better design. Could it have been so simple as for them to get the M25 prints and say, "okay, we're gonna copy everything here up until we bed the action into a stock, that is what we're gonna change." And to suggest that a similar rifle being manufactured and sold on the civilian market would go for more than 3-4k, that was just too funny. I could invision a M1A built to be as close to M25 specs as possible(not the Springfield WhiteFeather thing) coming out to around 2500-3000 for just the rifle simply because of what must go into making such a rifle, loads of work mixed with lots of expensive parts. Still though, it's nice to see the M14 still seeing service. Wonder if they decided to go back to the M14 action after seeing the Knights SR25s have fits in a similar environment during Desert Storm? Poodleshooter, the rifle you are thinking about should be the M21. It was an accurized M14 set in a laminated wood stock I believe, was pretty good in the day but was temperature and climate sensitive. The M25 helped to do away with some of that by moving to a synthetic stock and a few other improvements were made for the sake of accuracy. That's kinda why I huff and puff at the Springfield "White Feather" M25, the M21 should have seen service during the time that Carlos Hathcock was active duty and it's likely that he was very familiar with how to use the rifle. The M25 is likely a gun he never laid hands on as an active duty Marine, but I'm just knit picking, I do like the picatinny mount that Springfield put on their M25 but I don't think it's following military specifications for the M25. The M24 should be the current Army sniper rifle built on the Remington 700 long action, chambered for 308Winchester but capable of being built to house the 300WinMag if they ever decide to make the switch. Last edited by uglygun; January 18, 2002 at 09:31 PM.

January 18, 2002, 08:47 PM	#15
dZ Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: the Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,565	heres some current M40A3 in action shots: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20...ary_ny184.html http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20...ary_ny185.html http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20...ary_ny180.html __________________ "O tell the Lacedomecians to damn the torpedoes." BOTR, Chapter V: Some Monsters