Gun Jammed in Attack

Seeker · January 29, 2002, 02:31 PM

...BG's are claiming self-defense - Blake took two in the back.

Quote:

Yachtsman Blake's gun jammed in attack, court hears
By Maracimoni Oliveira

MACAPA, Brazil (Reuters) - Legendary New Zealand yachtsman Peter Blake managed to get one shot off from his rifle before it jammed and pirates shot him dead, a judge has been told.

Four of Blake's crew said a gang of six armed and masked men stormed his moored boat the Seamaster while they drank beer to celebrate reaching the mouth of the Amazon River on December 5, 2001.

English crew member Rodger Moore said Blake, one of the most successful sailors in yachting history, alerted the members of the 10-man crew that did not speak English saying, "This is real. This is a robbery."

The judge heard witnesses in the case on Monday and on Tuesday ahead of the trial that is expected in coming months.

Moore said he threw his beer in the face of one pirate but was knocked out by a blow to the face with a rifle butt. When he woke up, the pirates were shooting their guns at the boat as they sped off in a rubber dingy, he said.

"It was the robbers who shot first," he told the judge.

Four of six men in custody have confessed to killing Blake, but said they fired in self defence after the crew opened fire. They made off with watches, cameras, cash and a dingy.

The witnesses said Blake scrambled for his rifle as the pirates fled, firing one shot while several of the robbers were still on the Seamaster and then his rifle jammed.

The assailants still on the boat then gunned him down, they said.

Blake, 53, was killed by two shots in the back. His death shocked the world, especially New Zealand where he was a national hero.

The skipper's quiet determination led him to victory in yachting's most high-profile trophy, the America's Cup, in 1995 and 2000. He was also the only man to compete in the first five Whitbread Round the World races and won it in 1989-90.

The Seamaster was making its way to the sea from a two-month environmental expedition up the Amazon River.

The Story

Kharn · January 29, 2002, 02:48 PM

What type of rifle was it? Gotta make sure you protect your guns against the humidity, especially near water. Maybe the next expedition will take a Ma Deuce with them.

Kharn

joeislove · January 29, 2002, 03:24 PM

So if someone storms your boat, carrying loaded firearms and other weapons, and you shoot first, then it's not the robbers' fault that they kill someone? Self-defense?

I hope whoever is trying these people sees the same irony I do.

They stormed the boat with weapons, intent on doing harm. I don't care who shot first. They were assaulting the boat.

Dave R · January 29, 2002, 03:55 PM

He shot at them, they shot back...and he is hit twice in the back? This does not compute.

El Rojo · January 29, 2002, 04:06 PM

If I recall correctly, it was an M1 Garand.

MAKOwner · January 29, 2002, 04:12 PM

How can you claim self defense while you're being a damn pirate and raiding someone's boat??? That's assinine.

"Uh, yeah, we were cruising by waving and smiling, just being friendly, from a half mile away and they opened fire. So we had to board the boat, storm the crew compartment, steal what we could and kill the attacker. Yep, that's it... Clearly self defense!"

Derek Zeanah · January 29, 2002, 04:15 PM

What are the odds of a Garand jamming in a way that's difficult to clear, even if it's not maintained particularly well?

Just curious -- I've had great results with mine.

rock_jock · January 29, 2002, 04:36 PM

Probably a Mini-14.

striderteen · January 29, 2002, 04:49 PM

The only yacht I'd ever purchase would be a PT boat -- those babies carry more armament for their size than any other warship ever built!

Disclaimer: This is fictional -- wish it wasn't, though!

Pirates approaching!

Arm port and starboard twin .50-cal turrets

Lots of pirates!

Very well, arm both forward 20mm guns as well

No, no. Not lots of pirates, LOTS of pirates!

Man the 37mm and 40mm automatic cannon mounts, too!

Pirates with BIG ships!

Okaaay, they're really asking for it! Bring the five-inch rocket launchers and the torpedo tubes online!

Heh heh heh heh.

**Long Path** · January 29, 2002, 05:00 PM

Whatever the rifle,

however it happened,

at least the man went down fighting. It was a noble death.

rock_jock · January 29, 2002, 05:08 PM

If I ever did any boating across open waters, I would have a battle rifle for each member of the crew and at least one Barrett M82A1. I think I would also remain armed any time I was in port or when another boat approached. Modern-day pirates are positively ruthless.

Terrible way for this man to go. I hope they execute the trash that killed him.

ballistic gelatin · January 29, 2002, 05:40 PM

Quote:

What are the odds of a Garand jamming in a way that's difficult to clear, even if it's not maintained particularly well?

Did anyone happen to see JAWS?
Quinn tries to shoot his Garand at Jaws and it locks up on him. After he cusses the thing and fraps on it a few times, it starts working again.

Watch-Six · January 29, 2002, 05:48 PM

This senseless loss of a legend is very sad. Pirates claim self defense? Give me a %^#@!(*&^ing break. Watch-Six

Redlg155 · January 29, 2002, 09:00 PM

Quote:

How can you claim self defense while you're being a damn pirate and raiding someone's boat???

Perhaps their lawyer studied law in the United States?

Good SHooting
Red

El Rojo · January 30, 2002, 02:37 AM

Noble death? Death is death. I think it is more noble to be alive isn't it?

After seeing the footage on some liberal show of a greenpeace boat ramming a lawful japanese whaling boat, I would be heavily armed in the open seas. There would be nothing more satisfactory than shooting the hell out of a greenpeace boat that is trying to sink me. And Rock Jock hit the nail on the head. .50 bmg is the only way to go, except for a little less you can get a M2HB semi-auto. Ah the sheer satifaction of tearing a pirate ship to shreads with some .50 BMG API and APIT. I also think that is why they made the Remington 870 Marine for boarders.

With stories like this, I would think it would be common sense for everyone on board to be armed to the teeth.

BogBabe · January 30, 2002, 05:10 AM

El Rojo, you wrote:
With stories like this, I would think it would be common sense for everyone on board to be armed to the teeth.

I agree, but . . .

If we think the gun laws in America are draconian, try taking your firearms to other countries. I do a good bit of sailing (just coastal cruising) here in Florida, and we've talked many times about doing a longer sail to some of the Caribbean islands, including Cuba. If you're caught with guns on your boat in most of those island countries, there's no telling what'll happen to you. And they do board your boat and search it, frequently. (This is all second-hand from other sailors who have done sails like that.)

I generally have at least one gun with me when I go out sailing, but I just may decide to never sail into another country's territorial waters, for just that reason.

chaim · January 30, 2002, 05:18 AM

If I had a yacht that could go on the open seas these are the defensive weapons I'd want: first choice, and second choice. If you could afford a yacht big enough to sail/motor on the open seas you could afford these guns. I'd also want a shotgun or two, a couple Mini-14s

or AKs (reliablity is the issue), as distances can be great at sea I'd want a high powered bolt action (one of the few times that one could probably legally cite self defense at rifle ranges) and handguns for everyone. Piracy is real, people know you may be days from help and heavily armed thugs take advantage.

Quartus · January 30, 2002, 07:04 AM

Rich folks with private yachts that sail the open seas have heavily armed crews, usually.

Those that don't often lose things.

Ship. Money. Life.

Living is more noble? That depends on the price you pay for life.

striderteen · January 30, 2002, 07:23 AM

Barring hard-to-get guns...I'd try mounting a couple of Neostead shotguns side-by-side on a pintle mount. With the mount taking the recoil, you could just grab both triggers and blast away with a rapid twenty-eight rounds of twelve-gauge.

40ozflatfoot · January 30, 2002, 07:39 AM

The best gun made will jam if used with junk ammo. Regardless if the rifle was a Garand or a Mini-14 or whatever, if the first shot resulted in a complete head separation, then the gun is instantly transformed into a club.

When I bought my M70 1911 NIB, I made the mistake of feeding it Remington factory loads for its inaugural. The first round jammed the gun so tightly that I needed a mallet to break it open, and a wood dowel to clear the chamber. What came out was a case split from mouth to extraction groove.

After that, and a box of Winchesters, it functioned fine. I gave the rest of the Remingtons away.

Futo Inu · January 30, 2002, 12:21 PM

They admit they were robbing the boat while armed, but claim self-defense as to the killing? Good luck. That certainly wouldn't work in USA, even in socialist yankee states. Besides, in USA, the felony-murder rule would make all principles liable for murder anyways. Do they not have felony-murder there?

Futo Inu · January 30, 2002, 12:24 PM

My aunt and uncle plan to defend their sailboat with a 12 guage loaded up with 1 oz. slugs made with very hard lead alloy, to pierce the hull of any unwelcome approaching vessels.

jason10mm · January 30, 2002, 12:41 PM

Come on, we all know that the pirates most serious crime was not killing someone, but killing someone FAMOUS. If it had been some joe-blows in that boat there would be little fuss over it. They should be forced to walk the plank, after the water has been properly chummed of course

I wonder if he greased his M1. Maybe the op rod rusted. Time to get a mariner mossberg!! LAter.

MuzzleBlast · January 30, 2002, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Did anyone happen to see JAWS?

Sure. But that was a MOVIE, remember?

KSFreeman · January 30, 2002, 12:49 PM

M1 mal?!? No, no, that never happens, don't you guys read the rifle forum? Guns NEVER break that's why you do not need to carry backups.

Rich or poor avoidance is best.

January 29, 2002, 03:24 PM	#3
joeislove Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2001 Location: Ar Ramadi, Iraq Posts: 332	So you have to let the BG shoot first?! So if someone storms your boat, carrying loaded firearms and other weapons, and you shoot first, then it's not the robbers' fault that they kill someone? Self-defense? I hope whoever is trying these people sees the same irony I do. They stormed the boat with weapons, intent on doing harm. I don't care who shot first. They were assaulting the boat. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

January 29, 2002, 03:55 PM	#4
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,405	He shot at them, they shot back...and he is hit twice in the back? This does not compute. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

January 29, 2002, 04:06 PM	#5
El Rojo Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2000 Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 2,062	If I recall correctly, it was an M1 Garand. __________________ Get Some!

January 29, 2002, 04:12 PM	#6
MAKOwner Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2001 Posts: 317	How can you claim self defense while you're being a damn pirate and raiding someone's boat??? That's assinine. "Uh, yeah, we were cruising by waving and smiling, just being friendly, from a half mile away and they opened fire. So we had to board the boat, storm the crew compartment, steal what we could and kill the attacker. Yep, that's it... Clearly self defense!" __________________ MAKOwner

January 29, 2002, 04:15 PM	#7
Derek Zeanah Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2000 Location: South GA Posts: 267	What are the odds of a Garand jamming in a way that's difficult to clear, even if it's not maintained particularly well? Just curious -- I've had great results with mine. __________________ -- Derek "An elective despotism was not the government we fought for." --Thomas Jefferson

January 29, 2002, 02:48 PM	#2
Kharn Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,532	What type of rifle was it? Gotta make sure you protect your guns against the humidity, especially near water. Maybe the next expedition will take a Ma Deuce with them. Kharn

January 29, 2002, 04:36 PM	#8
rock_jock Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Location: SE Texas Posts: 1,789	Probably a Mini-14.

January 29, 2002, 04:49 PM	#9
striderteen Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2001 Location: Pasadena, California Posts: 591	The only yacht I'd ever purchase would be a PT boat -- those babies carry more armament for their size than any other warship ever built! Disclaimer: This is fictional -- wish it wasn't, though! Pirates approaching! Arm port and starboard twin .50-cal turrets Lots of pirates! Very well, arm both forward 20mm guns as well No, no. Not lots of pirates, LOTS of pirates! Man the 37mm and 40mm automatic cannon mounts, too! Pirates with BIG ships! Okaaay, they're really asking for it! Bring the five-inch rocket launchers and the torpedo tubes online! Heh heh heh heh.

January 29, 2002, 05:00 PM	#10
Long Path Staff Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: N. Texas Posts: 5,865	Whatever the rifle, however it happened, at least the man went down fighting. It was a noble death. __________________ "Welcome to The Firing Line, a virtual community dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearms ownership."T.F.L. Policy Page Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap? ____________ Better and Better, the blog. _____

January 29, 2002, 05:08 PM	#11
rock_jock Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Location: SE Texas Posts: 1,789	If I ever did any boating across open waters, I would have a battle rifle for each member of the crew and at least one Barrett M82A1. I think I would also remain armed any time I was in port or when another boat approached. Modern-day pirates are positively ruthless. Terrible way for this man to go. I hope they execute the trash that killed him.

January 29, 2002, 05:48 PM	#13
Watch-Six Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2000 Location: Utah Posts: 654	This senseless loss of a legend is very sad. Pirates claim self defense? Give me a %^#@!(*&^ing break. Watch-Six

January 30, 2002, 02:37 AM	#15
El Rojo Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2000 Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 2,062	Noble death? Death is death. I think it is more noble to be alive isn't it? After seeing the footage on some liberal show of a greenpeace boat ramming a lawful japanese whaling boat, I would be heavily armed in the open seas. There would be nothing more satisfactory than shooting the hell out of a greenpeace boat that is trying to sink me. And Rock Jock hit the nail on the head. .50 bmg is the only way to go, except for a little less you can get a M2HB semi-auto. Ah the sheer satifaction of tearing a pirate ship to shreads with some .50 BMG API and APIT. I also think that is why they made the Remington 870 Marine for boarders. With stories like this, I would think it would be common sense for everyone on board to be armed to the teeth. __________________ Get Some!

January 30, 2002, 05:10 AM	#16
BogBabe Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2001 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 568	El Rojo, you wrote: With stories like this, I would think it would be common sense for everyone on board to be armed to the teeth. I agree, but . . . If we think the gun laws in America are draconian, try taking your firearms to other countries. I do a good bit of sailing (just coastal cruising) here in Florida, and we've talked many times about doing a longer sail to some of the Caribbean islands, including Cuba. If you're caught with guns on your boat in most of those island countries, there's no telling what'll happen to you. And they do board your boat and search it, frequently. (This is all second-hand from other sailors who have done sails like that.) I generally have at least one gun with me when I go out sailing, but I just may decide to never sail into another country's territorial waters, for just that reason. __________________ "We are free not for the collective, not for utility, not for practicality, not for beauty or divinity or dignity or art. We are free because we cannot be otherwise, ever, no matter what. We are free because we cannot be chained by anyone without our consent." --Greg Swann, Let 'em eat steak

January 30, 2002, 05:18 AM	#17
chaim Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,397	If I had a yacht that could go on the open seas these are the defensive weapons I'd want: first choice, and second choice. If you could afford a yacht big enough to sail/motor on the open seas you could afford these guns. I'd also want a shotgun or two, a couple Mini-14s or AKs (reliablity is the issue), as distances can be great at sea I'd want a high powered bolt action (one of the few times that one could probably legally cite self defense at rifle ranges) and handguns for everyone. Piracy is real, people know you may be days from help and heavily armed thugs take advantage.

January 30, 2002, 07:04 AM	#18
Quartus Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,838	Rich folks with private yachts that sail the open seas have heavily armed crews, usually. Those that don't often lose things. Ship. Money. Life. Living is more noble? That depends on the price you pay for life. __________________ . Better to know what you don't know than to think you know what you don't know.

January 30, 2002, 07:23 AM	#19
striderteen Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2001 Location: Pasadena, California Posts: 591	Barring hard-to-get guns...I'd try mounting a couple of Neostead shotguns side-by-side on a pintle mount. With the mount taking the recoil, you could just grab both triggers and blast away with a rapid twenty-eight rounds of twelve-gauge.

January 30, 2002, 07:39 AM	#20
40ozflatfoot Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2001 Location: SD Posts: 464	The best gun made will jam if used with junk ammo. Regardless if the rifle was a Garand or a Mini-14 or whatever, if the first shot resulted in a complete head separation, then the gun is instantly transformed into a club. When I bought my M70 1911 NIB, I made the mistake of feeding it Remington factory loads for its inaugural. The first round jammed the gun so tightly that I needed a mallet to break it open, and a wood dowel to clear the chamber. What came out was a case split from mouth to extraction groove. After that, and a box of Winchesters, it functioned fine. I gave the rest of the Remingtons away.

January 30, 2002, 12:21 PM	#21
Futo Inu Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 1999 Location: Oklahoma City, OK, USA Posts: 3,629	Wait a sec They admit they were robbing the boat while armed, but claim self-defense as to the killing? Good luck. That certainly wouldn't work in USA, even in socialist yankee states. Besides, in USA, the felony-murder rule would make all principles liable for murder anyways. Do they not have felony-murder there?

January 30, 2002, 12:24 PM	#22
Futo Inu Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 1999 Location: Oklahoma City, OK, USA Posts: 3,629	PS My aunt and uncle plan to defend their sailboat with a 12 guage loaded up with 1 oz. slugs made with very hard lead alloy, to pierce the hull of any unwelcome approaching vessels.

January 30, 2002, 12:41 PM	#23
jason10mm Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2001 Location: San Antonio, Tx Posts: 231	Come on, we all know that the pirates most serious crime was not killing someone, but killing someone FAMOUS. If it had been some joe-blows in that boat there would be little fuss over it. They should be forced to walk the plank, after the water has been properly chummed of course I wonder if he greased his M1. Maybe the op rod rusted. Time to get a mariner mossberg!! LAter.

January 30, 2002, 12:49 PM	#25
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,404	M1 mal?!? No, no, that never happens, don't you guys read the rifle forum? Guns NEVER break that's why you do not need to carry backups. Rich or poor avoidance is best.