I'm considering either a Dillon 550b, RCBS Turret or Pro2000.

[Uhave2]

Here is Dillons response to my e-mail.


14261 RL550-B MACHINE --- 293.00
20127 550 CONV 9MM/38SUP --- 32.95
20126 550 CONV 45 ACP --- 32.95
20132 550 CONV 38/357, 38LC --- 32.95
13600 POWDER FUNNEL W PISTOL --- 6.95
20128 550 CONV 223,222,221 REM --- 32.95
20140 550 CONV 7MM REM MAG, 7MM STW -- 32.95
13305 POWDER FUNNEL I RIFLE --- 6.95
13254 CASE GAGE 223 --- 17.95
12828 CASE GAGE 243 --- 16.75
14406 NEW STYLE 9MM DIES, STD --- 49.95
14404 NEW STYLE DIE SET 45 ACP --- 49.95
14400 NEW STYLE DIE SET 38/357 --- 49.95
14398 NEW STYLE DIE SET 10/40 --- 49.95
10839 DILLON DIE SET 223 --- 49.95
21760 DILLON DIE SET 243 --- 29.95
21987 DILLON DIE SET 7MM REM --- 29.95
13909 550B TOOLHEAD 6 @ 11.01 --- 66.06
20064 POWDER DIE 550/650 6 @ 4.76 --- 28.56
15021 RCBS TRIM PRO TRIMER KIT --- 79.95
16038 LE WILSON DEBURRING TOOL --- 9.95
21353 POWDER BAR (MAGNUM) --- 18.95
22081 CV500 CLEANING KIT DEAL --- 22.95
13496 CORN COB MEDIA (10 LB'S) --- 0.00
13804 BRASS POLISH (290) --- 0.00
21027 SMALL TUMBLER CV500 --- 0.00
21045 CM MEDIA SEPARATOR --- 0.00
13839 550 BLUE CARTRIDGE BIN 2 --- 5.00
21143 550/SD-B PACKAGE DEAL --- 162.95
10330 LYMAN #47 MANUAL --- 0.00
13462 DILLON DIAL CALIPER --- 0.00
13480 ELIMINATOR POWDER SCALE --- 0.00
13606 PRIMER FLIP TRAY --- 0.00
13733 DILLON CASE LUBRICANT --- 0.00
13770 DILLON BENCH WRENCH --- 0.00
13795 550 & SD MACHINE COVER --- 0.00
10905 CLEAR SAFETY GLASSES --- 0.00
10842 NEW 1 INCH BENCH --- 0.00

Ship Method: UPS GROUND Net $ 1310.37
Tax 0.0%
Shipping 16.99
Order Total $1,327.36

* For some reason It can't get it to format any better.

[uglymofo]

Grunewaj,

I followed Guy's directions exactly, and it didn't cycle completely for me either. I added the extra insert just as suggested to get it to cycle and drop. I have no complaints, as the powder drop is very consistent. (I'm loading 45ACP.)

You're probably right about using the pistol meter; to that end, I got an extra set of sleeves from Hornady, just in case. I'll try it out I'll report when I have time to tap the pistol sleeve.

In the meantime, I don't see why the system won't work as desired even without a full-cycled drop. At least, mine is consistent as long as I add the second sleeve.

That was a very nice money-saving tip about the Lyman parts, thanks very much.

[grunewaj]

uglymofo,

I wasn't sure what to adjust when I tried it. You know you can adjust the height in the bushing or the height of the linkage? Can you give me a rule of thumb how to know which to adjust? There didn't seem to be any combination that I could get to work (I load .45ACP, also).

You are the first person I've actually heard from who has done it! Congratulations. I realize my question is a little vague, but it's been a while since I've fooled with it and since you just got it going, I figure you might know what the dance is.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jim

[Alex Johnson]

You guys aren't talking about the Lock'n'load AP-auto Progressive are you? I just looked on a website that sells hornady products and they are listing this press at $1120. I don't recall the Dillon reloaders costing that much, that said it looks like a nice press.

[grunewaj]

Alex,

It is a very nice press, but don't buy it from that web site! Midway or Lock Stock & Barrel have very good prices (little over $300)!

Where did you see this price? Did it include anything else? Just curious.

Jim

[Alex Johnson]

I'd have to check, after I read through some of the posts I did a search of the press on yahoo and it popped up. If it is retailing for $300 it must have included an awful lot of extras, either that or were definitely dealing with some inflation.

[uglymofo]

I posted this earlier in the thread:

Dunno what you've decided, but if you go Hornady LNL AP, it may be cheapest here ($289; unclear if a shellplate is included, though it seems standard with other vendors):

http://www.wideners.com/shopping/car...s&item=H095100

The price is still good as of 0422. 0135pdt



Grunewaj,

I tapped the pistol sleeve just as you suggested, but to my surprise, the powder drop cycled to exactly the same short throw as with the rifle sleeve.

However, after some tinkering, I ended up adjusting the height of the entire powder measure (down) and resetting the linkage to a different notch. It takes some hit and miss, but after a couple of tries, I got the metering to settle down and throw consistently with a full-cycled throw.

I don't see that anything at all is gained by this extra work though, for two reasons. I'm not sure I can logically duplicate the throw mechanically (for instance, if the height of the measure had to be reset for rifle cartridges, I don't think I could 'step-by-step' recreate the exact 45ACP height without using a ruler to measure the height)--that is to say, I'd be damn hard-pressed to write instructions to adjust the powder measure height and linkage correctly except to say, "experiment with height adjustments until desired height is achieved"--not very useful. Secondly, the only thing a full throw accomplished is to throw as consistently as the altered rifle sleeve threw with a partial throw.

Sorry that wasn't much help.

[uglymofo]

I posted this earlier in the thread:

Dunno what you've decided, but if you go Hornady LNL AP, it may be cheapest here ($289; unclear if a shellplate is included, though it seems standard with other vendors):

http://www.wideners.com/shopping/car...s&item=H095100

The price is still good as of 0422. 0135pdt, and there is no shellplate included, though S & H is included--$289 is the out the door price, short a shellplate.



Grunewaj,

I tapped the pistol sleeve just as you suggested, but to my surprise, the powder drop cycled to exactly the same short throw as with the rifle sleeve.

However, after some tinkering, I ended up adjusting the height of the entire powder measure (down) and resetting the linkage to a different notch. It takes some hit and miss, but after a couple of tries, I got the metering to settle down and throw consistently with a full-cycled throw.

I don't see that anything at all is gained by this extra work though, for two reasons. I'm not sure I can logically duplicate the throw mechanically (for instance, if the height of the measure had to be reset for rifle cartridges, I don't think I could 'step-by-step' recreate the exact 45ACP height by an orderly process without using a ruler to measure the height beforehand)--that is to say, I'd be damn hard-pressed to write instructions to adjust the powder measure height and linkage correctly except to say, "experiment with height adjustments until desired height is achieved"--not very useful. Secondly, the only thing a full throw accomplished is to throw as consistently as the altered rifle sleeve threw with a partial throw.

Sorry that wasn't much help.

[grunewaj]

Ugly,
Thanks for that description. I'm already set for using the rifle sleve, but that partial throw bothers me. Maybe I ought to try thowing some powder with it and convince myself that it works or that I should still be wary of it. I guess nothing is easy, is it.

Thanks,
Jim

[uglymofo]

The whole point of this was to be able to remove the belling die or whatever it's called (expansion die?), in order to leave a station open for the inclusion of the RCBS lockout die. I got mine a couple of days ago, and set up the LNL AP in its' final configuration. Everything works consistently and several powder measurements show the charges are throwing remarkably consistantly. Every time I've measured (about 1 in 8) it's been balls on at 4.7 gr. I've had two short throws in about 120 loads--but the lockout die has done its' job (so far as I know) by detecting them. I'm trying to average 4.6gr -+.1gr of WW231, and the lockout die has locked the press at short throws of 4.4 and 4.3gr.

But that priming system still SUCKS BIG D*@!S. The Hornady engineers who designed this must have designed the Brownell website.

Jams, failure to drop upright, failure to feed--I had it all in the first 200 reloads; however, it is getting better. Maybe I'm getting used to the rhythym, or things are loosening up. The only remaining problem seems to be with the priming system still--the last one or two primers won't feed reliably--I don't know why. They seem to just jam until I loosen the primer system's retaining thumb screw; then sometimes it works, other times complete disassembly is required. One thing's for sure, using the Dillon primer loading tube is a real help. I've got a machinist friend looking at adapting the Dillon primer feeding system to the LNL AP... pray for me.

[grunewaj]

Hey ugly,
Are you using a wooden dowel to add a little weight to the primer stack? That helps me a lot and I have very few primer feed problems. It's also interesting that the Dillon primer tubes will work in the Hornady. That's handy since I can get them at the gun shop I frequent.

Glad you got your charge/expander to work. I need to get back working on mine.

Hope this helps,

Jim

[uglymofo]

Yup, actually, I've been using a primer tube 'weight' (that Dillon issued with the 450) ever since the first primer feed failure. It's an aluminum rod with about a 4 ounce weight on the end of it. Still no joy.

[grunewaj]

Ugly,
I forgot to mention that everything has to be extremely clean and well lubed with a dry lube, but you probably already knew that.

I also meant to tell you that one guy I know about did some adjusting to the "cam" rod and that seemed to help him. You might want to talk with the folks at Hornady about that. But I have to say that this doesn't seem like a fix for feeding the last one or two primers.

I had a little problem that sounds like what you describe last night. It had never happened to me before. I had used the press for a couple of hundred rounds and had not cleaned it off. Then I used it again last night and had the problem. It might have been because it needed cleaning or it might have been my fault because I was screwing around short stroking it, etc. I can't really explain it, but like I said, it had never happened before.

I know that probably doesn't help, but it's the best I can do for now.

Good luck,

Jim

[Gary H]

Late to this post, but every time one of these questions are posed, we all suggest that the questioner buy what we own and most own Dillon. I currently reload seven calibers and love the 2000. It is fast, inexpensive and has met my expectations. I don't believe that there exists one good machine and the others fall short. My primary consideration was ease of use and inexpensive caliber change.

[grunewaj]

Gary,
I quite agree with you. I have a Hornady and like it a lot and so I recommend it to others. Usually I add that, at least between the presses with which I am somewhat familiar, I also say that neither the Hornady, Dillon, or RCBS are bad choices, it is more a matter of what features you want, how much you want to spend, and even what your prejudices are. I've heard good things about the 2K and from what I've read, they are warranted.

Ugly, I did some poking around on my LnL AP and found out why my primer feed was screwing up. The nut on the primer plunger (under the shell plate) was loose and so the shuttle was getting locked up and other unpleasantnesses. I tightned it up and the problem went away. I don't know if that will fix your problem, but you might take a look.

Jim

[John DR]

I have a Dillon too, take a good look at the 650 before buying.
If you shoot alot it's worth the money.

[topstrap]

I see that many others are also having problems with the L-N-L Hornady press. I finally got the primer shuttle problem solved when I slightly beveled the lower leading edge so it'll ride up on the primer punch if it sticks up slightly because of a bit of powder getting under it. I broke quite a few of the shuttles before I figured out that one. My nut would not stay tight on the bottom of the primer punch. Finally got it tight enough with a big pair of vise grips. I've battled one thing or another with the L-N-L press since I got it a couple of years ago. I had the older Pro 7 progressive loader and it worked flawlessly for a number of years. I've always had problems with breaking decapping pins with this press, It looks like one of the holes the dies (seating) fit into is off center slightly and the decapping pin always is bent to the same side. It indexes perfectly on the balls and everything is tight and adjusted. Just have never been able to stop that problem. It'a a big tough beefy looking press that is painted a really pretty shade of red but it's been a real pain to keep running.

Today I got a new 550B and in about an hour it was set up and running perfectly.. it isn't progressive in the way that it rotates automaticly but a slight flick of the thumb and it's turned, not a big deal but I'm really impressed with how well it operates. I still like the Hornady powder measure better than the Dillon and might someday switch mine to the Dillon press but for now I'll see how well the Dillon works. I think the Dillon dies are the absolute best I've seen with some nifty features that others do not have.

If I was to do it over again I'd not buy the Hornady L-N-L and get the Dillon instead right off. I have had problems with getting parts to repair the Hornady until finally getting the right person and telling them what happened. Dillon has a total no BS warranty and many of my friends pass along stories that back that up even after something breaks that is totally their fault.

It would be much better to actually go to a friends house and use all types of machines you're interested in, but I'd also listen to the guys that load a lot of ammo and most of them figure out what works and what doesn't. Lot's of money for any of them so spend it wisely....

[uglymofo]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the tips about the primer feed problems. I'll check them over the weekend (I hope) and report back.

[uglymofo]

Grunewaj and Topstrap,

Thanks very much for the tips. I checked out the retaining nut for the primer punch; it was loose. I've found that the damn thing backs out and works loose about every 200 rounds. I'm going to the store for a hex nut so I can lock down on it with a box wrench.

I also beveled the primer shuttle as you suggested, Top, and between these two suggestions, the press is working much more reliably. I tried the vise grip trick, but mine are too big. Also, I'm afraid of torqing it so much that I won't be able to trade it out later if necessary, for the small punch.

There is still a tendency for primers to stick in the primer tube, though. I don't know what the problem is there. There's no dirt in the tube- I shot a load of brake cleaner through the tube, followed by a long blast of air (helps to have your own compressor), and the damn thing looks pristine; nevertheless, the primers jam in the tube unpredictably. A good tap with the weighted rod fixes it each time.

By the way, I studied the linkage to see if I could be more specific about the full-cycle throw. Nothing glares at me as an obvious adjustment. I had set the locking allen screw 3 notches up from the bottom, and loosened and adjusted the entire linkage at the connection with the powder measure 'wheel' so that the linkage is "exactly" perpendicular to the drop tube. There are two clamps that are tightened by screws. The upper one is the one that must be loosened for the linkage-to-powder measure wheel adjustment. After that's been tightened down, I had to loosen the lower clamp and adjust it so it is about 4 threads from the bottom of the top clamp. I hope this helps. If you have any questions, let me know, and I'll try to answer them. If I can get my digital camera back in the next week or so, I'll try to post pictures.

Thanks for all the advice.

[Peter M. Eick]

I would suggest the pro2000. I have now made about 40,000 rnds on my pro2000 (yes I know I am a novice at progressives compared to you all), but it has been reliable and my only problems were spilled powder with new cases.

The big thing I like is that when I need more primers, I reach up grab another strip and continue loading. I buy my primers in strips ready to go and it saves a big headache.

This alone is why I would go for the pro2000.

[griz]

Ugly Mo

Something just occured to me so I'll take a wild guess here. Have you checked the tube for a small dent or even a slightly flattened area? I have never used a LnL but that problem would match the symtoms you describe.

[uglymofo]

Griz,

Thanks for the thought. That was a great idea. Unfortunately, that isn't it. The tube is smooth and straight on the outside, and looks that way on the inside, too. I'll be damned if I can see anything wrong with that brass tube, but it sure is finicky. As further 'proof' that this tube is completely unpredictable, the primers don't jam at the same place each time, except for the last one or two in the tube. Other times, it jams whenever--the weighted rod is good for measuring how many primers are left when the tube jams, and it seems to be random.

But I cured the primer tube jamming problem today by yanking the brass Hornady tube and replacing it with the brass Dillon tube. It's much heavier and thicker (yet the inside and outside diameters at the mouth where the primer drops, fits the Hornady system). I don't see how the heavier weight or thickness of the brass tube changes anything; the results are clear though. I've been testing the priming system in this configuration refilling with groups of 5 primers, and have yet to jam the system after loading 150 rounds. That's the best non-stop performance out of the priming system yet - the priming system has not failed for 150 consecutive rounds, though it has been emptied and refilled 30 times. voodoo. Obviously, something isn't uniform inside the Hornady tube.

I also cured the primer punch lock nut's tendency to loosen. I installed a 1/4-28 nut and external lock washer in place of the OEM knurled nut. I cranked it pretty tight with a box wrench, and at last check, all seems tight.

[topstrap]

Glad the beveled shuttle helped ya, it really made mine much more reliable.

After setting up my Dillon 550B the other day and really liking the way the primer tube is filled compared to the Hornady L-N-L I decided to modify mine. Here is what I did and it really works pretty smooth.

If you look in your box of goodies from Hornady for the L-N-L press you'll find one of the powder slides has a step down on it and it's longer than the other 2. (I don't use that one so it wasn't a problem using it for this modification) That one will just fit exactly inside the top of the outside primer safety tube if you insert the smaller diameter into it first. The shoulder will stop it from sliding down inside the tube. I only load 44's on mine now since I got the Dillon for the 45's so I used one of the large primer tubes that fit down inside the safety tube. I used a drill bit (anything small and round to pry out the tangs will work) and stuck it inside the top of the brass tube and spread the tangs out slightly that you normally use to pick up the primers with. Make it about twice as big as normal and keep trial fitting until it drops down into the powder bushing you placed at the top of the safety tube.

This creates a nice funnel like the Dillon assembly. I alread had a low primer warning buzzer I bought earlier and tried to use but it didn't quite work right. Take some black tape and make a couple of rounds on the top of the powder bushing to make it slightly larger diameter and the low primer buzzer will slide down over it perfectly and tighten up nicely.

Now take another large (or small if you're using small primers) and slightly bevel the bottom of the black plastic piece (facing the outlet of the primer tube) till it will fit nicely into the top of the powder bushing and primer tube in the safety tube without sticking. I drilled a small horizontal hole thru this primer tube (about 1" from the outlet, that leaves about 3/16" of plastic above it) that allowed me to put a small cotterkey or clip pin completely thru it to hold the primers from falling out when you turn it over after loading it.

Keeping the hole this distance away from the outlet allows the tube to fit completely into the flaired top of the one already in the press and allows you room to pull the pin) Load that tube as normal and when you turn it over the pin will keep them from falling out till you place it over your newly modified primer tube assembly, it'll fit nicely inside the buzzer and sit on top of the flaired primer tube in the safety housing and when you pull the pin the primers will slide down into the primer tube and be ready to go... sounds more complicated than it really is. You don't need a low primer buzzer and the other changes can be made with what you probably already have in your L-N-L kit.

I guess I can take pictures of it to show if needed, hope this might be of use to others. I hated taking the primer tube off my Hornady and loading it then putting the whole assembly back on, now I load up a few extra tubes (purchased separately) and then it takes about 10 seconds to reload the primers and keep at it like the Dillon system.

[uglymofo]

I forgot to come back here and post the solution to my primer feeding problems. About 2-3 months ago I was talking to a Hornady technician and just off the top of his head, out of frustration (he told me later), he asked, " Are you using milsurp brass?"
I said,"yes".
"Are you removing the primer pocket crimp?"
My answer was, "yes".
"Have you checked to see that it's deep enough?"
I thought, and said, "why wouldn't it be, it worked for my .308 cases AND my .45ACP on the Dillon?"

It turns out that the Dillon 450 I have has about 20% more leverage and a taller primer punch to seat the primers. I could literally 'muscle' the primers in, and didn't feel it as any additional work, like I did with the Hornady. I reswaged the milsurp .45ACP brass so the crimp was removed a little better, and I haven't had a primer feed problem in the last approximate 7000 reloads. Oddly, the .308 cases feed fine in the LNL; I guess the dimensions at the primer pocket aren't identical, I just took that for granted since the shellplate's the same.

Looking back on this, my primer feed problems happened randomly, and only in 45ACP. It never occurred to me to try another caliber like 44Mag or any commercial load. 45ACP was the only load I was short of at the time.

I'll bet the feed failures were because I had commercial cases mixed equally with the poorly-swaged milsurp stuff. It never occurred to me to check the headstamps, only the primer feed system.