In house bear defense. 30-06 or 20 Ga slug

[nsf003]

If you had to kill a bear inside your house, would you be better off using a 180 grain 30-06(bolt-action) softpoint or a 3/4 oz 20 Ga slug(pump-action) and why? The shot(s) would be made with a hill in the background and no risk of hurting someone due to overpenetration. Thanks


nsf003

[brembo]

Depends on the bear. Is it wearing body armor? Spectra-shield or just an old flak jacket?

[johnwill]

I think I'd rather have the 30-06 for it's killing power, but I'd rather shoot the 20ga inside a building, that 30-06 would be LOUD!

[Borf]

If I had a bear inside my house I would be bailing out of the nearest window.

If, for the sake of discussion, I had to stay in the house and take care of the bear:
12 ga. slug. (or 20 ga slug if that's what you're limiting it to) fired while bailing out of the nearest window.

If you can get a shot at him in the house you are probably very close to mr. bear. Unless you knock him out instantly (CNS hit for the most part), you're going to be in a whole world of uh-oh.

In reality, I'd probably just leave the house and wait for him to come out. Or, hang around outside with the .30-06 and wait for a shot to present itself through an opening.

[Sundance]

Well the first thing I would do is shoot the idiot who left the door open and let the bear inside the house.

[Ewok_Guy]

A big bear could easily walk right through your front door.
I'd grab my AK and pull a Bert, unloading at least two magazines into it, sending it back to where it came from.

[HKguy9]

Spray some Teflon material on your bullets, and they will explode on impact...

Don't forget the box of Skunkabilly Tactical Brack Taron rounds!!

[Zorro]

For Bears in the House 12 Gauge pump OR a 45-70.

[Azrael256]

Since overpenetration isn't an issue, I'll assume massive backblast isn't either. How about a command detonated claymore? The bear is going to tear the place up good anyway, so what's a claymore gonna hurt?

Really, the best way to go is preventative. Take a sheet of plywood, hammer about 100 nails into it, and put it in front of the door. That kind of un-welcome mat will turn away just about any kind of bear. Just try real hard to remember that it's there or you'll get a really nasty tetanus-shot requiring surprise.

[Art Eatman]

And then Azrael met the famous Jumping Bear...

, Art

[Tom Matiska]

2-3/4" 20ga maybe. 3" 20ga probably.... good as a 12ga for practical purposes.

Tom

[Kharn]

Find some real M2 .30-06 and a good pair of ear muffs, that bear wont be back. (M2 .30-06 aka "Black Tip" aka armor piercing)

Kharn

[AEM]

What are the circumstances which require you to be prepared to defend against a bear in your house?

I'm just glad to know there are still places where such a thing could happen.

[SHIVAN]

Make sure it's a "solid", and make sure you hit him in the head. You don't want to f*** around and use a frangible bullet, and risk pissing him off and having him still pissed while you are a few feet away.

Maybe a 7400 in 30-06.....

[dZ]

Jeff Copper says a 38 snubnose

We just finished a specialized course here at Gunsite intended for people who work (or play) in country where they run the chance of inadvertent contact with four-legged beasts which may prove hazardous to their health. A number of very interesting points were raised.

First, does this person require the use of both hands in his normal activities? The rifle and the shotgun are both more efficient than the pistol in a deadly confrontation, but if the weapon concerned is too cumbersome to be at hand when the flag flies, you have lost the discussion. Thus while we all admit that a rifle is your principal life-saver in any confrontation with a dangerous beast, it may be necessary under some circumstances for you to depend upon a handgun. Since animals strong enough to pose a threat to life and limb are big and strong, the handgun intended for defense against such beasts should be as powerful as can be comfortably managed, but range is not an important consideration. If you have to defend yourself against a bear or a lion that you just happened upon, the chances are that the beast will be within arm's length or less before you can fire. Of the several cases I know in which disaster was avoided with a pistol in an encounter with a dangerous beast, the muzzle was either touching the target or very nearly so.

If you carry a pistol for defense against dangerous animals, you want it to be handy in order to be sure that it is there when you need it. Drawing speed is of little consequence, but security is important. A man who is working under particularly sloppy conditions of rain, snow, mud, etc., will need a carrying system which protects his piece completely from unwarranted intrusion of foreign matter. In cool climates an open shoulder holster may suffice since the piece will be worn underneath outer clothing. In warmer climates, a covered holster may be the best choice.

In animal defense situations you are not likely to need a lot of ammunition. If you fail to brain your animal at spitting distance, reloading is probably going to be irrelevant.

[Johnny Guest]

- - -But where is there ANY language that leads you to the conclusion that Col. Cooper advocates use of a snub nose on bears? Any sources for that statement?

I know that, several years back, he OWNED a nice, early, Model 60 Chief, but he tends to favor large automatics and, for hunting, even larger revolvers. His mention of the shoulder holster reminds me of the one time I ever saw him wearing one--It was the Cooper-Hardy design, with an 8-3/8 inch barreled S&W .44 mag therein.

Best,
Johnny

[uzi4me]

( with dead stare and no emotion whatsoever)
given the circumstances ...
M82A1 ... full 10 round clip .. .50 bmg ...................................................................................

[jjmorgan64]

Neither is ideal, course nothing is ideal with a griz in your bedroom.
I would go with the action. I would rather work a pump 20 where i can keep my hands in firing position, than a Bolt.

Obviously if i were trying to drop one from a distance i would go with the '06

[m14nut]

What firearm will the Bear have? A Ruger "Bearcat"?
A Bearetta?
Can the griz legally BEAR arms?

[HKguy9]

What firearm will the Bear have? A Ruger "Bearcat"?
A Bearetta?
Can the griz legally BEAR arms?

Your corny humor is bearly bearable!

[Cosmoline]

Lots of moose live down the street, and where the moose are the bear tend to follow. There are notorious black bear who dig around the dumpsters. They're a more serious threat than they appear. In addition, we do get a brownie youngster wandering around town to see the city before heading back to the hills. They've smashed into houses before, typically confused by their own reflection in a glass door. I've also heard of moose falling through people's roofs, falling into basements, and generally getting into unlikely places.

If it *did* happen, there is no way I would attempt to shoot the animal, whether brownie, black bear or moose unless my back was to the wall. Even a small black bear is likely to be so freaked out once inside it won't matter how big of slug you put into it. Ditto on the moose and ditto with a vengeance on the brownie. I'd just shut it in and get the hell out of there. Besides, chances are an animal in that situation didn't set out to do me any harm. A black bear is likely to be after food. A moose is just stupid beyond belief. A brown bear doesn't want to be around town in the first place.

The only time I've ever heard of any bear smashing into a structure to kill people is up on the slope, where a polar bear smashed into a remote defense site and mauled some contractors before one shot him. He was disciplined for illegally keeping a weapon in the area, but that's another story. Polar bear are different. Nearly 100% carnivorous. Sometimes they run away in fear, sometimes they come up and eat you. It's just a good thing they live way out on the ice most of the time.

[JIH]

A big bear could easily walk right through your front door.

Invest in small front doors, Goldilocks....

[griz]

Call 911. They will arrest the bear for trespassing and nobody gets hurt.

Imagine in a very authoritative voice:

Put your paws on your head and step away from the honey jar.

[edamon2k]

first I'd run to the kitchen, get some food to lure it outside with as I snuck out the back.

frankly, who wants to shoot a bear inside their house.. imagine having to clean that mess up.

outside, shoot him with the biggest gun you got.

btw, where the heck do you live that this would even been a consideration?

-d

[dZ]

in this years Cooper Commentaries, the Colonel has mentions bears several times, one of his messages is having the gun available on your body is critical,
hense my snub nose quote

A short-barreled, 12-gauge shotgun with rugged metallic sights is doubtless a good bear choice, and is recommended by many people who work in Alaskan bear country. However, I would choose a rifle. If this rifle is to be used for defense against dangerous animals, it is necessary that it be handy. A weapon that is so clumsy that it is out of reach when you need it is no weapon at all. If a rifle is to be used at any distance, we are probably avoiding the defensive connotation, but if so, it should be equipped with a shooting sling, either a conventional loop or a speed sling. Many people argue against the use or presence of any kind of sling at all, since ranges in dangerous situations will be very short and straps can be hampered by thick brush. (Modern slings are instantly detachable and should be demounted and left aside in conditions of short-range hazard.)

Any beast which poses a serious danger to people is a big, strong beast and should not be pestered with minor-caliber rifles. It is true that you can brain almost any beast with a 223, under certain circumstances, but this certainly should not be your first choice. It that squirt gun is all you have, shoot for the brain and hope for the best, but remember to pray a lot.

Is our standard 308 (7.62 NATO) adequate for dangerous game defense? Certainly it is, provided proper bullets are used and the shooter is a cool hand. The proper bullet is one of ample weight and thick jacket. Long range exterior ballistics hardly matter. I remember when I was living in California that a friend of mine had a huge brown bear mounted in his place of business, practically rubbing its head on the ceiling. He loved to talk about how exciting that bear hunt was, but he was hard put to decide whether it was a matter of stark peril at arm's length or a case of masterful marksmanship way across the canyon. He could never decide which, so he alternated one story against the other.

Defense against bears, lions, tigers, and such is a short-range proposition. No matter how fierce he is, no wild animal can hurt you unless he can touch you. Clearly you will make do with what you have, and in many cases the defensive situation is improvised, but still you should not select a weapon suitable for long-range shooting if its principle purpose is self-defense.

Telescopic sights are so common today that it is practically impossible to sell a rifle without one, but a scope is not the right choice when you are trying to stop a beast from biting you. The glass sight is plenty fast enough - faster than metallic sights when thoroughly understood - but it is no help in stopping a charge, and regardless of what any salesman will tell you, it is fragile over the long haul. Besides which its lenses may easily become obscured by foreign matter under conditions of rough duty. (On the occasion of my one and only lion, taken head-on at eleven paces, the telescope was an encumbrance. All I could see through the tube was yellow fur, which offered no aiming point.) Experiences differ and we have room here for endless fireside conversations, but I do not recommend a telescope sight on a rifle intended for man-killing beasts.

A "bear defense" course was recently run at Gunsite and turned up a couple of interesting points. One is that sheer power will not do for a bear. If you are in real danger from a bear, he will be on top of you, and what you need is penetration. Once a bear has got you down, or a lion for that matter, you have to brain him, and you must do that at contact distance. A 357 snubby, using a very hard, sharp-pointed bullet, would seem to be the answer. I have a friend who went this route while attempting to photograph a lion. He used a Super 38 auto, and while he survived, he will never again have full use of his left hand.

http://www.cybersurf.co.uk/johnny/jeff/