For all who seek an M4 carbine

M4A3 · September 3, 2002, 09:41 PM

This thread is a review on Knights SR-15-M4:

If you are looking for an M4 carbine and want the best quality avalible, then I would recomend this rifle.

Since I bought my M4 I have fired aprx. 600 round through it and have had NO problems with it, not one single jam, NOTHING. The feel and finish on this carbine is exelent too. The main draw back is the cost because it is expensive, but well woth every dollar.

-Basic cost: Aprox. 1600.00
-Sights: 300M flip-up rear sight
-Stock: A2
-barrel leingth: 16" M4 1-9 5.56mm (not .223)
but you can fire .223
-front grip: R.A.S. hand guard. (used by US special forces)
-weight: Aprox 6.6 Lbs
-trigger: Stage 2 match. (safe,fire)
-upper: Forged flat top
-lower: Forged
-Flash hider
muzzle brake: None
-bolt,barrel
extension stainless steel.

I was very impressed with the Knights SR-15-M4 and would recomend it to any one who wants the best. I have yet to find or shoot any M4 that comes close to the quality of this one.

http://www.knightsarmament.com/

Redlg155 · September 3, 2002, 09:52 PM

Nice Rifle, although pricey!

I'd like to get one of their SR25s.

Also..ummm...Nice Revolver..but..umm..I think the range is the other way.

Good SHooting
RED

Correia · September 3, 2002, 09:57 PM

Do 600 rounds in an afternoon. That is a test.

Not to knock your new toy, but that ain't a whole lot of shooting yet. But for $1600 it damn well better not malfunction.

Coronach · September 3, 2002, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Also..ummm...Nice Revolver..but..umm..I think the range is the other way.

Also, re: the rifle, whats Rule 3 again? :P

Mike

cratz2 · September 3, 2002, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Also, re: the rifle, whats Rule 3 again? :P

If I recall, it's finger on both triggers when holding two guns facing away from that which you want to destroy.

M4A3 · September 4, 2002, 12:51 AM

Gun safty in my view boils down to comon sence. Have you ever looked down the barrel of youre gun? mabe to see if it's clean or not. Shure we all have. But I'm shure the bolt was open and there was no ammo in the clip, mag, tube.

1) I know the rules of the range and shooting, So dont remind me.
2) Both guns are empty.
3) Both guns are empty.
4) And I stress this one. This thread is about the rifle not the picture. If you DO NOT have a comment about the rifle it self do NOT post one at all. Thank you. I know having 2000 or 3000 posts looks cool by youre name, but dont you think it would be better to have 500 good quality on the subject posts than 3000
posts that has nothing to do with the thread at ALL??

The reason I posted the picture in the first place is so you could see what the rifle looks like.

Quote:

Do 600 rounds in an afternoon. That is a test.

I think I will.

But I bet it still wont jam.

Pvt. Joker · September 4, 2002, 06:46 AM

I bet my RRA shoots just as good, for half the price!

-Jared

KSFreeman · September 4, 2002, 06:55 AM

Nice piece. Let us know how it holds up. Any classes scheduled?

BTW, too many people have been shot violating the 4 rules, including people on this board. Please remember Rule 1--all guns are always loaded--and Rule 3 (the Golden Rule)--keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on target and you are ready to shoot!!! However, waving the guns around with your fingers on the trigger will get you a job at a gun rag.

Brian Williams · September 4, 2002, 07:25 AM

I think that warning someone who has shown all of us in a picture that he violates a critical rule of gun safety is a more necessary post than telling you that your rifle is a great looker and seem to shoot well, but you have spent way to much on a rifle that you think is justified.

OBTW I can hardly see the rifle, I only know they are good.

I listen to some of these posters who have a couple of thousand posts because they have the T-shirt from having been there

Gun Safety is more than common sense it is following the rules that were made from common sense.

fastang50 · September 4, 2002, 07:46 AM

Oh, give the guy a break. I'm sure we've all violated saftey rules at some point. It's been pointed out, now leave it alone.

Glad to hear you like the rifle, too rich for my blood though.

BTW, nice range. Is that at your/friends place? 100 yards? I'd sure like to have access to a set-up like that.

cslinger · September 4, 2002, 08:31 AM

they are just pointing out what it takes to be safe. Remember the rules are there so if you should happen to violate 1 but not the others you should still be ok should the gun discharge.

As far as I am concerned each and every one of us should get this lecture every once in awhile whether we break the rules or not. Prime rule in my book is stay safe.

So don't be offended by the lectures as these are people who are only doing the right thing and the polite thing by trying to help you and those around you stay safe.

Now get those fingers out of the trigger guards and remember that it is loaded whether or not you think it is loaded.

Yes we have all broken the rules from time to time.....doesn't make it right though.

Nice carbine by the way, pretty range.

Have fun, shoot safe, and swallow your pride and take the advice given, as cliche' as it sounds it might just save your's or somebody else's life.

Chris

Pat Rogers · September 4, 2002, 09:40 AM

SR-15-M4

Sir, the fact that you are proud of your purchase is normal.
What is not is your blatant disregard for firearms safety and your attitude when confronted with this.

Firearms owners can always be assured of recieving notice in the press if they do something wrong, and many find a reason to do just that when they launch projectiles into themselves, friends, podiums and so forth.
There are only two kinds of firearms discharges- Justified and negligent, and i can assure you that if you are ever involved in an ND where it gets to court, that picture is going to come back to haunt you.

If you wanted to show a picture of the carbine, it was not necessary for you to be holding it (nor the revolver either)- as Perfessr points out, it is a poor picture of the carbine.

You claim the weapon to be unloaded (But, i didn't know that the gun was loaded!), yet you have the magazine- a feed device in it. Why? How do you know- really know- that a weapon is unloaded Unless You remove the ammunition supply and Lock the bolt to the Rear??? Visually and digitally inspect that chamber??

You state that, but here you are holding two firearms with your fingers on the respective triggers.
And there is absolutely no reason for that.
None. Nada.

That kind of casual attitude towards safety is what gets people killed. If you don't think so, you are wrong. Dead wrong.

A man, when confronted with his mistake, will acknowledge it, correct it and drive on.
Admit your error, and then religiously follow those four safety rules.
Don't whine. Accept the responsibility.

As for anyone that thinks that this is hammering the poster, remember that on the range, we are all safety officers. Those who are casual about the use of deadly weapons need to be counseled and then educated.
And if they fail to measure up, excommunicated.
We- as a community, cannot afford to tolerate this behavior. We don't need to give the other side any more ammunition when they claim that we are all idiots.

cslinger · September 4, 2002, 10:01 AM

don't take this as harrassment or ragging on you. People here are just trying to keep you and other safe and sound. Nothing more, nothing less. If we didn't give a damn then we wouldn't care if you shot yourself of somebody else.

Don't get mad or upset, Just chalk it up to you being stoooopid, live, learn, and do the same thing we did here for somebody else sometime.

We have all been stooopid from time to time. I know we are all big kids at heart and we get carried away with our toys but we gotta stay safe and we all need a smack upside the head from time to time. ALL OF US.

Your picture is a good wake up call for not only you but the rest of us as well. It happens, just don't let it happen again.

Just think of it as tough love.

Chris

cslinger · September 4, 2002, 10:05 AM

Wish I could afford an AR-15.......any AR-15 will do. How about sending me a slight donation for helping keep you and others safe. This is valuable info.

Just make the $700 out to Chris Needs An AR Fund..........

I don't know much about Knight Industries are they really worth that kind of cash? I have a hard time beliving any AR is worth more than $800 bucks.

krept · September 4, 2002, 10:24 AM

Nice setup.

Jimmy Mac · September 4, 2002, 10:26 AM

I have had my share of ARs. It is hard to beat a Bushmaster. I can't see ones costing twice as much being that much better.

My AR days are over. I got tired of the constant cleaning and care they need.

The Garand and M1a are my favorites.

dZ · September 4, 2002, 11:31 AM

a buddy has a Knights SR 15 and an SR 25

both are very very nice

VW new beetles and Audi TTs are basically the same car

which do you want?

PS that is not really Reed Knight's website
IIRC, its a website a guy in New York State registered and wants Knights to buy from him.

check out this pix:
http://members.shaw.ca/stan420/Pictu...ideviewbig.jpg
it's an Air soft KAC SR-16 M4!

Johnny Guest · September 4, 2002, 01:32 PM

- - -And we all realize you did't show it to us in expectation of safety lectures. Please, accept the cautionary hints in the spirit in which they are intended. After all, unless you were using the self-timer on the camera, SOMEONE had to stand in front of you to take the photo you your cool guns!

Even those most familiar with guns and shooting make these little errors. Though I know my piece is empty, my shooting companions don't. And THE RULES are pretty ingrained in all of us. If I do something that makes them uncomfortable with my gun handling, then I have robbed them of some of the enjoyment of the range session.

Local rules on our range accept that all are human. No one wants to embarrass or hold a friend up to ridicule. If there's a momentary lapse, a quiet word, "Muzzle," or perhaps, "Trigger finger," is all that's necessary. The only proper response to such is something like, "Oh, sorry," or, "Gotcha." Any other indicates that the gun handler is so defensive or invested in his/her own ego as to pose a potential problem. If it becomes an issue more than twice, that person is just not invited back.

No sense in giving the anti-gunners any ammo to use against us. Even a minor gunshot wound means a police report, and the news media scan them for inflamatory, ooops, newsworthy, stuff. And a MAJOR wound, crippling or killing someone accidentally, will haunt a decent person the rest of his days, even if a law suit does not ensue.

(Unintentional pun--sorry.)

Best regards,
Johnny Guest

KSFreeman · September 4, 2002, 07:44 PM

There can be no breaks for violations of the Four Rules as when you violate the Four Rules pieces of you, those you love, those you don't know or pieces of podiums disappear! This is why the gun rags are so dangerous to the Gun Culture as they hold violations of the Four Rules (the full Sabrina that the flower-shirted love, the point at waist, the p***s ready position, etc., et al, ad naseum) up as something to emulate.

Those who are newly zealous in their passion for firearms think they can bypass education and copy these hack fools. This is why it is vital that when we see violations of the Four Rules we yell loudly and clearly. Better to be yelled at then to feel the metal passing through your entrails!

Ask anyone here who has been shot: it does not matter why you got shot (accident, on purpose, negligence), it just matters that you did get shot. The Four Rules are life.

Rhino48 · September 4, 2002, 08:38 PM

i'm speechless.

uglygun · September 4, 2002, 08:38 PM

Value, much like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

Enjoy your Knight's rifle, for the same money though I outfitted an all new Bushy carbine with all new gear: Surefire 500A, ARMS 38Ext. SwanSleeve, Aimpoint CompM in a ARMS #22M68 mount, with sling, and with mags. The rifle has shot 600+ rounds in one day alone while going over 1k+ rounds in a two day period while practicing and competing for various matches, all without malfunctions of any kind.

For some who want the brand name, Knights and Colts I refer them to but I caution them that customer service can be troublesome(reported from numerous owners of both brands). For those who want value, I recommend Armalite or Bushmaster where customer service is said to be much improved with prices that are within the stratosphere for a respectable product(and in the case of Armalite downright outstanding in my own personal experience).

As for jamming that rifle up, might I recommend you try out just about anything from Federal(American Eagle, Premium, Gold Medal). Shoot enough of that crap and you WILL get a popped primer down in your trigger group as well as maybe a few other wonderful little surprises, but hell Knights themselves recommends not using Federal ammo in their SR25s and they likely recommend the same for the SR15. Maybe the only safe 223/5.56 from Federal is that white box stuff that's coming from the LakeCity plant and getting remarked as Federal, crimped primers on LC brass hopefully and not that soft FC crap.

One thing you will learn about the AR15, ANY AR15, is that they are all ammo sensitive(no matter if it's 223Rem or 5.56 spec chambers) and will also be sensitive to FUBAR'd magazines. I've had the guns run dirty with over 1k rounds fired without any type of cleaning, but bad ammo will cause headaches non-stop even if the gun is perfectly clean.

Ceol Mhor · September 4, 2002, 08:41 PM

On the gun -

$1600 for a post-ban AR?

Egads...for that much I'd expect it to clean my laundry for me! At the least, I'd want it to do more than shoot 600 rounds without a flaw. I'd gunk it up with dirt and see if it still fired. Then I'd do the same thing using crappy Wolf ammo. And then empty a few mags as fast as I could with it full of dirt and eating Wolf ammo. If it could do all that without choking, then I'd be a lot more willing to spend $1600 on it.

On the photo -

The Four Rules are not so concrete as some of you guys are claiming. At gun shows, for example, the sellers flagrantly point guns at people, because to pick one up you often can't avoid it. However, because the Rules are being broken deliberately in that circumstance, extra care is taken to ensure that they aren't loaded and the trigger isn't touched.

Similarly, a lot of photos are taken from down-range of a gun muzzle. This violates the Rules as well, so again extra care is taken to ensure safety. If you don't think this is acceptable, I presume you'll start reaming Oleg as soon as you have the chance. He does it all the time (here's one example: http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/S_WELCOME.JPG).

In SR-15-M4's case, it seems that appropriate care WAS taken to ensure the guns were empty. However, the finger-in-the-trigger-guard detail looks like a bad habit, rather than something deliberately posed for the photo (especially on the AR). If so, it would be a very, very good idea to break yourself of it.

KSFreeman · September 4, 2002, 09:15 PM

CM, geez, no offense, but heard of any NDs at gun shows recently? On TFL perchance?

How about in the Land of Stars and Bars where a little kid picked up a bullet in the head because someone allegedly had "common sense" and "had been around guns all my life and doesn't need to follow the Four Rules." I'm not sure gun shows or gun rags are proper examples of proper behavior.

M4A3 · September 4, 2002, 10:21 PM

I dont know how it all came to this. I didn't come here to brag about a new toy. If a gun is a toy at all.

I bought the rifle, shot it and am telling you about it for the people who minght be looking to buy an M4 in the future.

DZ thanks for the pic. That is a mutch better picture of how the gun looks up close.

If the rifle is more than you want to pay for an AR/M4 thats cool too. Its youre money.

Quote:

I'd gunk it up with dirt and see if it still fired.

I fired about 45 rounds with sand in the chamber. It fired flawlessly. When I got up off of the ground there must have been some sand on my cloths that had fallen into the chamber when it was open after the last round. I was shooting UMC ammo at the time.

Quote:

How about in the Land of Stars and Bars where a little kid picked up a bullet in the head because someone allegedly had "common sense" and "had been around guns all my life and doesn't need to follow the Four Rules." I'm not sure gun shows or gun rags are proper examples of proper behavior.

Well, I wasnt there so I dont know how somthing like this happend. But if it did happen the shooter must not have been useing common sence. Just like if my gun(s) were loaded you wouldn't have seen me facing up range with the fingers on the triggers.

As far as the rifles go I have eather owned or shot just about every type or brand of AR/M4 there is. And trust me when I say nothing has performed like the Knights. If you get a chance to shoot one of Knights rifles you will then know what I am talking about.

Quote:

Enjoy your Knight's rifle, for the same money though I outfitted an all new Bushy carbine with all new gear: Surefire 500A, ARMS 38Ext. SwanSleeve, Aimpoint CompM in a ARMS #22M68 mount, with sling, and with mags. The rifle has shot 600+ rounds in one day alone while going over 1k+ rounds in a two day period while practicing and competing for various matches, all without malfunctions of any kind.

Do you have the RAS front grip: NO
Do you have forged recevers: NO
Do you have stainless bolt: NO
Do you have a stage 2 trigger: NO
Do you have 300M flip rear sight: NO
Do you have heavy M4 barrel: NO
Is you're barrel chambered for
5.56 NO

The Knights is built better than the Bushy with out a dought. It's the real thing. Special Forces use Knights rifles because there so damn good. The RAS front grips design almost colpletly exposes the barrel to air witch cools the barrel down much faster than a standard M4 front grip.

Quote:

As for jamming that rifle up, might I recommend you try out just about anything from Federal(American Eagle, Premium, Gold Medal). Shoot enough of that crap and you WILL get a popped primer down in your trigger group as well as maybe a few other wonderful little surprises, but hell Knights themselves recommends not using Federal ammo in their SR25s and they likely recommend the same for the SR15. Maybe the only safe 223/5.56 from Federal is that white box stuff that's coming from the LakeCity plant and getting remarked as Federal, crimped primers on LC brass hopefully and not that soft FC crap.

LoL

I agree Federal (American Eagle, Premium, Gold Medal).
In AR-15 rifles= BAD:barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:
I only shoot..

M1A3
M193
M855
any Remington ammo. 55 Grn. +
PMC
Black Hills

Quote:

i'm speechless.

I'm not.

uglygun · September 4, 2002, 10:51 PM

Ohhhhh, gee.

Sorry but a lot of the things you tried to say that my Bushy as not having are way off base.

*Receivers, in fact they are forged for both upper and lower receivers. In fact the fogings supplied to Bushmaster are likely the same raw forgings supplied to Knights knowing the way the industry works.(DPMS and Oly are the big Casters in the biz)

*I expressly told you that I've got a swansleeve on the weapon, the ARMS #38 swansleeve includes one of the most highly regarded backup iron sights out there.

*The barrel is in fact chambered for 5.56x45mm, it's part of the reason why Bushies are sought out because they do Mil-spec chamber their barrels for those concerned about tight chambers.

*The barrel on my carbine is essentially a clone of an M4 type barrel, one conforming to gov't. specs.

As for the things my bushy doesn't have, that's where the concept of value comes in again. I don't really desire a Knights RAS/RIS unit because I know their vices and I'd rather go with an ARMS SIR unit before going with a Knights RAS/RIS, but as it stands I have no use for one. Then for the bolt or bolt carrier, the stainless steel bolt I see no need for as phosphated serves my uses just fine. And then lastly, the 2 stage trigger, talk about the easiest of 5 minute parts swaps.

But you wanna knitpick? Show me where Colt has released it's exclusivity to producing M4 Carbines for the military. Bushmaster was taken to court many moons ago for supplying M4 type carbines to the military when Colt had a contract for exclusive production of the rifles thanks to their patents/trademarks. I'm kinda doubting whether there are any Knights M4s in use by the military on a large wide spread scale, maybe a small trickle of them are in use in some modified form like that of the Crane SPR program but those are a step away from the M4 concept.

Anyhow, you've shown everybody what you're 1600 dollars got you. Here is roughly what my 1600 dollars got me,
http://home.bak.rr.com/varmintcong/1...tershorty.html
Price breakdowns are after taxes or delivery fees,
Base gun, Bushmaster 14.5ShortyAK.... $850
Surefire 500A dedicated light housing... $250
Aimpoint Comp M along with M22-68..... $300
ARMS #38 Ext. swansleeve rail........ $180
Johnson RediMag(not always installed).. $75
ErgoGrip to replace the POS A2 grip... $19

Cost of classic "purple bush-hamster" botched anodizing..... priceless. The one thing that I'll readily laugh off because color finish of a rifle matters little to me.

Here again is where the concept of value enters the equation.

I've gone AR crazy over the past few years(presently owning 3 AR15s as well as an AR10), I'm not affraid to spend money on the things. Heck I've got one that I went totally stupid for just so I could shoot squirrels to distances WAY out there(El Rojo where are ya?), 2500 dollars later it is my most prized rifle because of the enjoyment it brings me.

Over the years I've witnessed more than enough infighting amongst the AR crowd between groups fighting over which is better: Colt, Armalite, Bushmaster, DPMS, Eagle, Knights, or heck even ASA(if anyone is an AR15.com Rowdy who remembers the ASA trolling on those forums). There's always gonna be room for argument over which is truely best.

September 4, 2002, 06:46 AM	#7
Pvt. Joker Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Posts: 123	Hmmm.. I bet my RRA shoots just as good, for half the price! -Jared __________________ Semper Fi! Do or Die, Gun Ho! Gun Ho!

September 4, 2002, 06:55 AM	#8
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	Nice piece. Let us know how it holds up. Any classes scheduled? BTW, too many people have been shot violating the 4 rules, including people on this board. Please remember Rule 1--all guns are always loaded--and Rule 3 (the Golden Rule)--keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on target and you are ready to shoot!!! However, waving the guns around with your fingers on the trigger will get you a job at a gun rag. __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

September 4, 2002, 07:25 AM	#9
Brian Williams Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2001 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 1,288	I think that warning someone who has shown all of us in a picture that he violates a critical rule of gun safety is a more necessary post than telling you that your rifle is a great looker and seem to shoot well, but you have spent way to much on a rifle that you think is justified. OBTW I can hardly see the rifle, I only know they are good. I listen to some of these posters who have a couple of thousand posts because they have the T-shirt from having been there Gun Safety is more than common sense it is following the rules that were made from common sense. __________________ Brian <><

September 4, 2002, 08:31 AM	#11
cslinger Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 2,045	Nobody is ragging on the guy...... they are just pointing out what it takes to be safe. Remember the rules are there so if you should happen to violate 1 but not the others you should still be ok should the gun discharge. As far as I am concerned each and every one of us should get this lecture every once in awhile whether we break the rules or not. Prime rule in my book is stay safe. So don't be offended by the lectures as these are people who are only doing the right thing and the polite thing by trying to help you and those around you stay safe. Now get those fingers out of the trigger guards and remember that it is loaded whether or not you think it is loaded. Yes we have all broken the rules from time to time.....doesn't make it right though. Nice carbine by the way, pretty range. Have fun, shoot safe, and swallow your pride and take the advice given, as cliche' as it sounds it might just save your's or somebody else's life. Chris __________________ "Is there anyway I can write my local gun store off on my taxes as dependents?"

September 4, 2002, 09:40 AM	#12
Pat Rogers Member in memoriam Join Date: July 31, 2001 Posts: 303	Safety Violation SR-15-M4 Sir, the fact that you are proud of your purchase is normal. What is not is your blatant disregard for firearms safety and your attitude when confronted with this. Firearms owners can always be assured of recieving notice in the press if they do something wrong, and many find a reason to do just that when they launch projectiles into themselves, friends, podiums and so forth. There are only two kinds of firearms discharges- Justified and negligent, and i can assure you that if you are ever involved in an ND where it gets to court, that picture is going to come back to haunt you. If you wanted to show a picture of the carbine, it was not necessary for you to be holding it (nor the revolver either)- as Perfessr points out, it is a poor picture of the carbine. You claim the weapon to be unloaded (But, i didn't know that the gun was loaded!), yet you have the magazine- a feed device in it. Why? How do you know- really know- that a weapon is unloaded Unless You remove the ammunition supply and Lock the bolt to the Rear??? Visually and digitally inspect that chamber?? You state that, but here you are holding two firearms with your fingers on the respective triggers. And there is absolutely no reason for that. None. Nada. That kind of casual attitude towards safety is what gets people killed. If you don't think so, you are wrong. Dead wrong. A man, when confronted with his mistake, will acknowledge it, correct it and drive on. Admit your error, and then religiously follow those four safety rules. Don't whine. Accept the responsibility. As for anyone that thinks that this is hammering the poster, remember that on the range, we are all safety officers. Those who are casual about the use of deadly weapons need to be counseled and then educated. And if they fail to measure up, excommunicated. We- as a community, cannot afford to tolerate this behavior. We don't need to give the other side any more ammunition when they claim that we are all idiots. __________________ S/F Pat sends www.eagtactical.com Last edited by Pat Rogers; September 4, 2002 at 01:42 PM.

September 3, 2002, 09:52 PM	#2
Redlg155 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2001 Location: NW Florida Posts: 2,307	Nice Rifle, although pricey! I'd like to get one of their SR25s. Also..ummm...Nice Revolver..but..umm..I think the range is the other way. Good SHooting RED

September 3, 2002, 09:57 PM	#3
Correia Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 1998 Location: SLC Utah Posts: 3,740	Do 600 rounds in an afternoon. That is a test. Not to knock your new toy, but that ain't a whole lot of shooting yet. But for $1600 it damn well better not malfunction.

September 4, 2002, 07:46 AM	#10
fastang50 Member Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 86	Oh, give the guy a break. I'm sure we've all violated saftey rules at some point. It's been pointed out, now leave it alone. Glad to hear you like the rifle, too rich for my blood though. BTW, nice range. Is that at your/friends place? 100 yards? I'd sure like to have access to a set-up like that.

September 4, 2002, 10:01 AM	#13
cslinger Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 2,045	Once again... don't take this as harrassment or ragging on you. People here are just trying to keep you and other safe and sound. Nothing more, nothing less. If we didn't give a damn then we wouldn't care if you shot yourself of somebody else. Don't get mad or upset, Just chalk it up to you being stoooopid, live, learn, and do the same thing we did here for somebody else sometime. We have all been stooopid from time to time. I know we are all big kids at heart and we get carried away with our toys but we gotta stay safe and we all need a smack upside the head from time to time. ALL OF US. Your picture is a good wake up call for not only you but the rest of us as well. It happens, just don't let it happen again. Just think of it as tough love. Chris __________________ "Is there anyway I can write my local gun store off on my taxes as dependents?"

September 4, 2002, 10:05 AM	#14
cslinger Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 2,045	Back on topic..... Wish I could afford an AR-15.......any AR-15 will do. How about sending me a slight donation for helping keep you and others safe. This is valuable info. Just make the $700 out to Chris Needs An AR Fund.......... I don't know much about Knight Industries are they really worth that kind of cash? I have a hard time beliving any AR is worth more than $800 bucks. __________________ "Is there anyway I can write my local gun store off on my taxes as dependents?"

September 4, 2002, 10:24 AM	#15
krept Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2000 Location: AZ Posts: 1,363	Nice setup. __________________ the tallest blade of grass is the first to greet the lawnmower blade

September 4, 2002, 10:26 AM	#16
Jimmy Mac Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2002 Posts: 688	I have had my share of ARs. It is hard to beat a Bushmaster. I can't see ones costing twice as much being that much better. My AR days are over. I got tired of the constant cleaning and care they need. The Garand and M1a are my favorites.

September 4, 2002, 11:31 AM	#17
dZ Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,548	a buddy has a Knights SR 15 and an SR 25 both are very very nice VW new beetles and Audi TTs are basically the same car which do you want? PS that is not really Reed Knight's website IIRC, its a website a guy in New York State registered and wants Knights to buy from him. check out this pix: http://members.shaw.ca/stan420/Pictu...ideviewbig.jpg it's an Air soft KAC SR-16 M4! __________________ "O tell the Lacedomecians to damn the torpedoes." BOTR, Chapter V: Some Monsters

September 4, 2002, 01:32 PM	#18
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	Nice carbine, SR_15_M4 - - - - - -And we all realize you did't show it to us in expectation of safety lectures. Please, accept the cautionary hints in the spirit in which they are intended. After all, unless you were using the self-timer on the camera, SOMEONE had to stand in front of you to take the photo you your cool guns! Even those most familiar with guns and shooting make these little errors. Though I know my piece is empty, my shooting companions don't. And THE RULES are pretty ingrained in all of us. If I do something that makes them uncomfortable with my gun handling, then I have robbed them of some of the enjoyment of the range session. Local rules on our range accept that all are human. No one wants to embarrass or hold a friend up to ridicule. If there's a momentary lapse, a quiet word, "Muzzle," or perhaps, "Trigger finger," is all that's necessary. The only proper response to such is something like, "Oh, sorry," or, "Gotcha." Any other indicates that the gun handler is so defensive or invested in his/her own ego as to pose a potential problem. If it becomes an issue more than twice, that person is just not invited back. No sense in giving the anti-gunners any ammo to use against us. Even a minor gunshot wound means a police report, and the news media scan them for inflamatory, ooops, newsworthy, stuff. And a MAJOR wound, crippling or killing someone accidentally, will haunt a decent person the rest of his days, even if a law suit does not ensue. (Unintentional pun--sorry.) Best regards, Johnny Guest

September 4, 2002, 07:44 PM	#19
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	There can be no breaks for violations of the Four Rules as when you violate the Four Rules pieces of you, those you love, those you don't know or pieces of podiums disappear! This is why the gun rags are so dangerous to the Gun Culture as they hold violations of the Four Rules (the full Sabrina that the flower-shirted love, the point at waist, the p**s ready position, etc., et al, ad naseum) up as something to emulate. Those who are newly zealous in their passion for firearms think they can bypass education and copy these hack fools. This is why it is vital that when we see violations of the Four Rules we yell loudly and clearly. Better to be yelled at then to feel the metal passing through your entrails! Ask anyone here who has been shot: it does not matter why you got shot (accident, on purpose, negligence), it just matters that you did get shot. The Four Rules are life. __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York*, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

September 4, 2002, 08:38 PM	#20
Rhino48 Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Posts: 66	i'm speechless.

September 4, 2002, 08:38 PM	#21
uglygun Senior Member Join Date: March 27, 2001 Location: Cowpie Ca Posts: 552	Value, much like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Enjoy your Knight's rifle, for the same money though I outfitted an all new Bushy carbine with all new gear: Surefire 500A, ARMS 38Ext. SwanSleeve, Aimpoint CompM in a ARMS #22M68 mount, with sling, and with mags. The rifle has shot 600+ rounds in one day alone while going over 1k+ rounds in a two day period while practicing and competing for various matches, all without malfunctions of any kind. For some who want the brand name, Knights and Colts I refer them to but I caution them that customer service can be troublesome(reported from numerous owners of both brands). For those who want value, I recommend Armalite or Bushmaster where customer service is said to be much improved with prices that are within the stratosphere for a respectable product(and in the case of Armalite downright outstanding in my own personal experience). As for jamming that rifle up, might I recommend you try out just about anything from Federal(American Eagle, Premium, Gold Medal). Shoot enough of that crap and you WILL get a popped primer down in your trigger group as well as maybe a few other wonderful little surprises, but hell Knights themselves recommends not using Federal ammo in their SR25s and they likely recommend the same for the SR15. Maybe the only safe 223/5.56 from Federal is that white box stuff that's coming from the LakeCity plant and getting remarked as Federal, crimped primers on LC brass hopefully and not that soft FC crap. One thing you will learn about the AR15, ANY AR15, is that they are all ammo sensitive(no matter if it's 223Rem or 5.56 spec chambers) and will also be sensitive to FUBAR'd magazines. I've had the guns run dirty with over 1k rounds fired without any type of cleaning, but bad ammo will cause headaches non-stop even if the gun is perfectly clean.

September 4, 2002, 08:41 PM	#22
Ceol Mhor Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2001 Posts: 1,043	On the gun - $1600 for a post-ban AR? Egads...for that much I'd expect it to clean my laundry for me! At the least, I'd want it to do more than shoot 600 rounds without a flaw. I'd gunk it up with dirt and see if it still fired. Then I'd do the same thing using crappy Wolf ammo. And then empty a few mags as fast as I could with it full of dirt and eating Wolf ammo. If it could do all that without choking, then I'd be a lot more willing to spend $1600 on it. On the photo - The Four Rules are not so concrete as some of you guys are claiming. At gun shows, for example, the sellers flagrantly point guns at people, because to pick one up you often can't avoid it. However, because the Rules are being broken deliberately in that circumstance, extra care is taken to ensure that they aren't loaded and the trigger isn't touched. Similarly, a lot of photos are taken from down-range of a gun muzzle. This violates the Rules as well, so again extra care is taken to ensure safety. If you don't think this is acceptable, I presume you'll start reaming Oleg as soon as you have the chance. He does it all the time (here's one example: http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/S_WELCOME.JPG). In SR-15-M4's case, it seems that appropriate care WAS taken to ensure the guns were empty. However, the finger-in-the-trigger-guard detail looks like a bad habit, rather than something deliberately posed for the photo (especially on the AR). If so, it would be a very, very good idea to break yourself of it. __________________ "There goes as if deranged a German soldier, with burning helmet on his head, making horrible noises. A second, as though possessed, yells "Jews...weapons. Jews...weapons." - From an anonymous eyewitness' description of the first battle of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising

September 4, 2002, 09:15 PM	#23
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	CM, geez, no offense, but heard of any NDs at gun shows recently? On TFL perchance? How about in the Land of Stars and Bars where a little kid picked up a bullet in the head because someone allegedly had "common sense" and "had been around guns all my life and doesn't need to follow the Four Rules." I'm not sure gun shows or gun rags are proper examples of proper behavior. __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

September 4, 2002, 10:51 PM	#25
uglygun Senior Member Join Date: March 27, 2001 Location: Cowpie Ca Posts: 552	Ohhhhh, gee. Sorry but a lot of the things you tried to say that my Bushy as not having are way off base. Receivers, in fact they are forged for both upper and lower receivers. In fact the fogings supplied to Bushmaster are likely the same raw forgings supplied to Knights knowing the way the industry works.(DPMS and Oly are the big Casters in the biz) I expressly told you that I've got a swansleeve on the weapon, the ARMS #38 swansleeve includes one of the most highly regarded backup iron sights out there. The barrel is in fact chambered for 5.56x45mm, it's part of the reason why Bushies are sought out because they do Mil-spec chamber their barrels for those concerned about tight chambers. The barrel on my carbine is essentially a clone of an M4 type barrel, one conforming to gov't. specs. As for the things my bushy doesn't have, that's where the concept of value comes in again. I don't really desire a Knights RAS/RIS unit because I know their vices and I'd rather go with an ARMS SIR unit before going with a Knights RAS/RIS, but as it stands I have no use for one. Then for the bolt or bolt carrier, the stainless steel bolt I see no need for as phosphated serves my uses just fine. And then lastly, the 2 stage trigger, talk about the easiest of 5 minute parts swaps. But you wanna knitpick? Show me where Colt has released it's exclusivity to producing M4 Carbines for the military. Bushmaster was taken to court many moons ago for supplying M4 type carbines to the military when Colt had a contract for exclusive production of the rifles thanks to their patents/trademarks. I'm kinda doubting whether there are any Knights M4s in use by the military on a large wide spread scale, maybe a small trickle of them are in use in some modified form like that of the Crane SPR program but those are a step away from the M4 concept. Anyhow, you've shown everybody what you're 1600 dollars got you. Here is roughly what my 1600 dollars got me, http://home.bak.rr.com/varmintcong/1...tershorty.html Price breakdowns are after taxes or delivery fees, Base gun, Bushmaster 14.5ShortyAK.... $850 Surefire 500A dedicated light housing... $250 Aimpoint Comp M along with M22-68..... $300 ARMS #38 Ext. swansleeve rail........ $180 Johnson RediMag(not always installed).. $75 ErgoGrip to replace the POS A2 grip... $19 Cost of classic "purple bush-hamster" botched anodizing..... priceless. The one thing that I'll readily laugh off because color finish of a rifle matters little to me. Here again is where the concept of value enters the equation. I've gone AR crazy over the past few years(presently owning 3 AR15s as well as an AR10), I'm not affraid to spend money on the things. Heck I've got one that I went totally stupid for just so I could shoot squirrels to distances WAY out there(El Rojo where are ya?), 2500 dollars later it is my most prized rifle because of the enjoyment it brings me. Over the years I've witnessed more than enough infighting amongst the AR crowd between groups fighting over which is better: Colt, Armalite, Bushmaster, DPMS, Eagle, Knights, or heck even ASA(if anyone is an AR15.com Rowdy who remembers the ASA trolling on those forums). There's always gonna be room for argument over which is truely best.