Bear fear

Borf · May 15, 2001, 10:34 PM

Alright guys, I feel I have to confess (or is it the Sandeman's I had with dinner that makes me do it?). I spend a lot of time in the woods. Anually, I typicaly canoe around ~200 miles - ~120 miles in a 10 day summer trip, the rest assorted weekends and whatnot. Also who know how many hours hunting fishing, walking photographing, etc. I'm familiar with the woods. I *am* one of the creatures running through them. The anual summer trip is looming ahead. It occurs in Northern Ontario.

Where I'm getting is, there are beacoup d'ours noir in them thar woods. During the day, I'm cool. We're 7 days from the nearest road, packing everything you need. Gorgous skies, moose galore (saw 23 last year... don't even ask - provincial park = no hunting). Life is grand.

Set up camp on a small island 3/4 mile from shore. Sleep is sound - rise, travel, eat, and drink.

Different geography. River, bog, swamp.

Forced to make camp on shore.

At this point I fall on my knees before those who decide who art men and who art mice, begging forgiveness and hiding my shame. I continue...

Slowly the sun sinks over the treetops. The woods become dark, followed by the open areas. Loons cruise too and fro, sounding for all the world like feathered helicopters, getting to their evening resting spots. The frogs begin. It becomes darker...

The wind has died off (as it does every night), allowing you to hear each leaf ruffle, each bird sing, each forest dwelling animal run to it's final resting place. Then there is quiet.

As you lay your head down for the night, you hear foot steps. You hear animals pushing through underbrush. You calm yourself, saying that anything that moves when it is this quiet will sound so loud. There is something the size of a refrigerator splashing in the water 10 feet from your head. calm... you hear noises nearby all night. You sleep little.

The next morning you find bear prints near your camp. You've been good, you're a responsible outsoorsman - your food pack and cooking clothes are in a tree 200 yards ago... you have nothing to worry about (?). Your unease at the next night's noises is only compounded by today's prints...

To keep it firearms related, is a provincial park hence no firearms!! (is not a solution anyway IMHO)

Question is - I'm not the only one

I *know* I'm not the only one. What do you guys keep running through your minds? What comforting thoughts? I usually just take the Elmer Keith fatalist view (i.e. if it's my time, it's my time. I'll trip on a log and break my neck if nothing else is available, but not before.)

I should add that I *rationally* know I'm at very little risk. My biggest serious concerns are ticks (lyme disease) or slurping some swamp water and getting giardia or some such... but the rational bits of my brain seem to shut down when things go bump.

Forgive my ramblings...

now onde está minha porto?

[Edited by Borf on 05-16-2001 at 12:36 AM]

El Rojo · May 15, 2001, 11:26 PM

I would think the further out in the stix you are, the less likely you are going to have a problem with bears. When you get close to a lot of people and national parks, the morons in this world try to make the bears their pets and feed them or the bears get into the trash and turn into pets themselves. They don't care your around then cause all they want is the crack high garbage and human food gives them. Now out in the wilderness, I don't see bears very long. I see them, they see me, then I see their hind end as they get out of there. I have never really worried about it and I am very rarely armed on my hiking excursions.

Borf · May 15, 2001, 11:29 PM

you know, I've *never* seen a bear whilst in hard core wilderness. They're there alright. the signs are there, and fresh. I know there's no (exceedingly little) danger. I know it's just my poor little primate instincts doing what they're meant to do

jthuang · May 16, 2001, 11:20 AM

Sounds like you've already got your bases covered in terms of bear avoidance. There's not much more you can do besides having a gun (which you said you can't do anyway).

As for the mental aspect, you may want to look at "The Relaxation & Stress Reduction Workbook" by Martha Davis. The workbook contains several techniques to halt "worrying" thoughts. I haven't read the whole book yet but it seems promising.

I once saw five bears in one day when trooping through Glacier National Park in Montana. Maybe the best solution is to wear yourself out during the day so that you fall asleep as soon as you hit the sack so there is no time to worry about bears.

Justin

Gunslinger · May 16, 2001, 12:02 PM

I don't go any where that I cannot carry a gun....period.

thumbtack · May 16, 2001, 02:35 PM

Have you seen the Bear Spray, it is pepper spray for bears. I have heard that it works wells.

After watching "Deliverance", I always carry when I go camping.

CoyDog · May 16, 2001, 03:55 PM

I'm with Gunslinger on this one: No guns allowed, count me out. I live near Yellowstone, but I don't hike in the backcountry. I'll leave it to others to stroll around in griz country with their bear bells, singing and protecting themselves with happy thoughts.

Last spring, a black bear killed a woman in Smoky Mountain National Park and ate her. It doesn't happen often, but once is enough if you are the victim.
Good Shooting, CoyDog

Cosmoline · May 17, 2001, 02:07 AM

I've been hiking around the Chugach for a while now. The mountains border Los Anchorage, but they still have far more bears than Yellowstone. Yet the ONLY times I've run smack into bear have been on very busy days with lots of tourists on the trail. I strongly suspect it's the result of some yinyang leaving part of a corn dog in the bushes or something. Bears can smell that sort of thing miles away, and it will override their usual caution. Besides that, other than a moose kill once or twice a season, you just don't see them near the human-frequented areas. The lesson? If you want to avoid bears, go vegan on your trips and keep the food well away from your tent. Avoid foods with a strong odor, and avoid meats.

Also, remember to keep your EARS open, as well as your eyes. Every time I've encountered a bear, and most of the countless times I've come across moose, I hear them before I see them. These are big animals, and they break a lot of branches. If you're wearing a lot of bells, you may miss these cues.

John/az2 · May 17, 2001, 10:04 AM

This is bear country.
To help you avoid bear wear small bells and carry pepper spray.
You can tell if there are bear in the area by looking for their scat:

It smells like pepper and contains small bells.

PaladinVC · May 17, 2001, 10:14 AM

Sounds like you should bring one of those G-man Genesis suits Troy Hurtubise has been working on. Has he actually built that thing yet, or is he still in the poorhouse?

Redlg155 · May 17, 2001, 10:59 AM

I refuse to go anywhere that I may encounter someone or something bigger and badder than I am unarmed.

As for pepper spray- you definitely take your chances. I have never used one on bears, but on humans- yes. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If a human can get a direct hit from spray and have enough fight left in them to dish out one hell of a butt whoopin, just what do you think a 300lb or larger bear can do?

I refuse to carry armed where restricted. If you do get caught killing a bear, not only have you violated Fish and Wildlife regs by killing the animal, you are now screwed with a gun charge. They don't give a damn about you, they don't want someone "accidently" shooting one of their beloved creatures. That may be enough to strip you of any future rights to carry or own a firearm. It just isn't worth it.

If you insist on camping anyway- make sure you pick a nice slow and fat camping buddy. I've learned long ago- you don't have to outrun the lion, just the guy next to you!

Good Shooting
RED

Ludwig · May 17, 2001, 11:27 AM

I live in black bear country and do not go in the woods without bear spray or a suitable gun. Beware of people who belittle this. They know they can get away with talking as if they are more sensible or brave only because attacks are so rare. L

Borf · May 17, 2001, 08:58 PM

Interesting. The place where I go (Algonquin Prov. Park - as I'm sure some of you have been to) has been the site of a good percentage of all black bear deaths in N. America. Most signs indicate these deaths are of a predatory nature (which is not as rare with blackies as one might think). There have been 5 people (that I know of) killed in a predatory fashion in this 70x50ish km square park in the last 20 years. The Ontario parks dept. does *not* seem inclined to release figures on non-fatal attacks. This aside, I've weighed the risks and I take my chances.

While I appreciate the bear advice, what I was actually asking about when I posted, was what goes through people's heads when "things go bump in the night". My "bumps" happen to be bear related. Maybe some other people have bumps that are goblins, or snakes, or wolves, or coyotes, or some non-tangible evil that lurks in the underwear drawer. I don't know.

Allow me to rephrase the questions as:

"I admit to being afraid of things that go bump in the night. I'm sure you guys are scared of night bumps too. Do tell, I wish to hear the stories of others."

Thanks,
Borf

Ludwig · May 17, 2001, 09:12 PM

At http://www.udap.com/ there are some hairy true stories about bear attacks. Pictures. Pretty gruesome. L

Cosmoline · May 18, 2001, 01:07 AM

Oh, I understand your question now. Goblins are one of the best reasons to camp alone. With a big gun at my side, I don't worry too much about bear. It's usually the silence and extreme darkness that bugs me. The most afraid I've ever been was on a camping trip in a very old forest in Oregon when I was younger. The wind in the trees scared the crap out me, though to this day I can't explain why.

CoyDog · May 18, 2001, 02:25 PM

I think one of the best hedges against fear is taking rational, appropriate precautions. Fear of a bear attack? 44 Magnum. Fear of the dark? Surefire 6P. Fear of various and sundry things that go bump in the night? Your choice, but I'll take the .44 . It might not work against the Blair Witch, but I'll go out in a blaze of firepower.

I guess I don't view fear as an irrational feeling that one should try to get rid of, or ignore. It may be that your all-knowing, deeper sense of self trying to tell you something. I take the hint, take precautions, and carry on.
CoyDog

Red Label · May 18, 2001, 05:17 PM

It is the human kind of predator that I am most distrustful of when in the back-country. But I live in grizland and that's why I pack the .44 mag. Those are mostly the two goblins in the night that I imagine when tossing and turning. I suspect that I will sleep more soundly this summer with my DA .44 mag Garrett-loaded revolver lying next to my pillow. I even pack it when fishing the rivers well-below the griz inhabited mountains of Montana. The peice of mind one gains from knowing that they are packing a big gun is worth any hassle encountered. I can see why Dirty Harry walked with such confidence! I'm not even afraid of Blair Witches. 1000+ FPE should be enough to scare even those kinds of creatures...

PKAY · May 18, 2001, 05:47 PM

In my younger days, my wife and I used to backpack every summer in Yosemite. We often encountered bears. As long as our food was strung up over a tree branch, we never had a problem. That said, I ALWAYS packed my Govt. Model Series 70 Colt 1911 with two mags in my pack. Once camped, I put the gun in condition one and placed it in the tent under my air pillow for the evening. Not for bears, mind you, but for the two legged ding dongs, goof balls, wierdos, and such often plying the John Muir Trail. Never had to use it. As for illegality, yeah, it's a risk...Don't ask, don't tell (TFL is the exception).

WESHOOT2 · May 18, 2001, 09:49 PM

I believe I might be wearing something anti-biting animal when I go into the biting animal place.
It might be a 5.5" Redhawk in 41, 44, or 45, or it could even be a 4" GP100 with some really really good ammo.

That's what I believe.......

---------------------------------

"all my physics are factory physics"

May 15, 2001, 11:26 PM	#2
El Rojo Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2000 Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 2,057	Out in the boonies you should be safer. I would think the further out in the stix you are, the less likely you are going to have a problem with bears. When you get close to a lot of people and national parks, the morons in this world try to make the bears their pets and feed them or the bears get into the trash and turn into pets themselves. They don't care your around then cause all they want is the crack high garbage and human food gives them. Now out in the wilderness, I don't see bears very long. I see them, they see me, then I see their hind end as they get out of there. I have never really worried about it and I am very rarely armed on my hiking excursions.

May 15, 2001, 11:29 PM	#3
Borf Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 424	indeed you know, I've never seen a bear whilst in hard core wilderness. They're there alright. the signs are there, and fresh. I know there's no (exceedingly little) danger. I know it's just my poor little primate instincts doing what they're meant to do

May 16, 2001, 03:55 PM	#7
CoyDog Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 163	I'm with Gunslinger on this one: No guns allowed, count me out. I live near Yellowstone, but I don't hike in the backcountry. I'll leave it to others to stroll around in griz country with their bear bells, singing and protecting themselves with happy thoughts. Last spring, a black bear killed a woman in Smoky Mountain National Park and ate her. It doesn't happen often, but once is enough if you are the victim. Good Shooting, CoyDog __________________ "A man's choice of weapons is a portal into his thoughts, his values, and his character."

May 17, 2001, 10:04 AM	#9
John/az2 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 1999 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,729	Sign at the park's entrance: This is bear country. To help you avoid bear wear small bells and carry pepper spray. You can tell if there are bear in the area by looking for their scat: It smells like pepper and contains small bells. __________________ John/az Six Blind Sheep \| The Publishing Site \| Online Product Reviews

May 18, 2001, 05:47 PM	#18
PKAY Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 1999 Location: L.A., CA, USA Posts: 911	In my younger days, my wife and I used to backpack every summer in Yosemite. We often encountered bears. As long as our food was strung up over a tree branch, we never had a problem. That said, I ALWAYS packed my Govt. Model Series 70 Colt 1911 with two mags in my pack. Once camped, I put the gun in condition one and placed it in the tent under my air pillow for the evening. Not for bears, mind you, but for the two legged ding dongs, goof balls, wierdos, and such often plying the John Muir Trail. Never had to use it. As for illegality, yeah, it's a risk...Don't ask, don't tell (TFL is the exception). __________________ Safe shooting - PKAY

May 15, 2001, 10:34 PM	#1
Borf Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 424	Alright guys, I feel I have to confess (or is it the Sandeman's I had with dinner that makes me do it?). I spend a lot of time in the woods. Anually, I typicaly canoe around ~200 miles - ~120 miles in a 10 day summer trip, the rest assorted weekends and whatnot. Also who know how many hours hunting fishing, walking photographing, etc. I'm familiar with the woods. I am one of the creatures running through them. The anual summer trip is looming ahead. It occurs in Northern Ontario. Where I'm getting is, there are beacoup d'ours noir in them thar woods. During the day, I'm cool. We're 7 days from the nearest road, packing everything you need. Gorgous skies, moose galore (saw 23 last year... don't even ask - provincial park = no hunting). Life is grand. Set up camp on a small island 3/4 mile from shore. Sleep is sound - rise, travel, eat, and drink. Different geography. River, bog, swamp. Forced to make camp on shore. At this point I fall on my knees before those who decide who art men and who art mice, begging forgiveness and hiding my shame. I continue... Slowly the sun sinks over the treetops. The woods become dark, followed by the open areas. Loons cruise too and fro, sounding for all the world like feathered helicopters, getting to their evening resting spots. The frogs begin. It becomes darker... The wind has died off (as it does every night), allowing you to hear each leaf ruffle, each bird sing, each forest dwelling animal run to it's final resting place. Then there is quiet. As you lay your head down for the night, you hear foot steps. You hear animals pushing through underbrush. You calm yourself, saying that anything that moves when it is this quiet will sound so loud. There is something the size of a refrigerator splashing in the water 10 feet from your head. calm... you hear noises nearby all night. You sleep little. The next morning you find bear prints near your camp. You've been good, you're a responsible outsoorsman - your food pack and cooking clothes are in a tree 200 yards ago... you have nothing to worry about (?). Your unease at the next night's noises is only compounded by today's prints... To keep it firearms related, is a provincial park hence no firearms!! (is not a solution anyway IMHO) Question is - I'm not the only one I know I'm not the only one. What do you guys keep running through your minds? What comforting thoughts? I usually just take the Elmer Keith fatalist view (i.e. if it's my time, it's my time. I'll trip on a log and break my neck if nothing else is available, but not before.) I should add that I rationally know I'm at very little risk. My biggest serious concerns are ticks (lyme disease) or slurping some swamp water and getting giardia or some such... but the rational bits of my brain seem to shut down when things go bump. Forgive my ramblings... now onde está minha porto? [Edited by Borf on 05-16-2001 at 12:36 AM]

May 16, 2001, 11:20 AM	#4
jthuang Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2000 Posts: 823	Sounds like you've already got your bases covered in terms of bear avoidance. There's not much more you can do besides having a gun (which you said you can't do anyway). As for the mental aspect, you may want to look at "The Relaxation & Stress Reduction Workbook" by Martha Davis. The workbook contains several techniques to halt "worrying" thoughts. I haven't read the whole book yet but it seems promising. I once saw five bears in one day when trooping through Glacier National Park in Montana. Maybe the best solution is to wear yourself out during the day so that you fall asleep as soon as you hit the sack so there is no time to worry about bears. Justin

May 16, 2001, 12:02 PM	#5
Gunslinger Junior member Join Date: January 5, 1999 Location: Springfield, Missouri Posts: 2,105	I don't go any where that I cannot carry a gun....period.

May 16, 2001, 02:35 PM	#6
thumbtack Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2001 Location: Garland, Texas Posts: 724	Have you seen the Bear Spray, it is pepper spray for bears. I have heard that it works wells. After watching "Deliverance", I always carry when I go camping.

May 17, 2001, 02:07 AM	#8
Cosmoline Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2000 Posts: 1,080	I've been hiking around the Chugach for a while now. The mountains border Los Anchorage, but they still have far more bears than Yellowstone. Yet the ONLY times I've run smack into bear have been on very busy days with lots of tourists on the trail. I strongly suspect it's the result of some yinyang leaving part of a corn dog in the bushes or something. Bears can smell that sort of thing miles away, and it will override their usual caution. Besides that, other than a moose kill once or twice a season, you just don't see them near the human-frequented areas. The lesson? If you want to avoid bears, go vegan on your trips and keep the food well away from your tent. Avoid foods with a strong odor, and avoid meats. Also, remember to keep your EARS open, as well as your eyes. Every time I've encountered a bear, and most of the countless times I've come across moose, I hear them before I see them. These are big animals, and they break a lot of branches. If you're wearing a lot of bells, you may miss these cues.

May 17, 2001, 10:14 AM	#10
PaladinVC Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2001 Location: Erie, PA Posts: 236	Sounds like you should bring one of those G-man Genesis suits Troy Hurtubise has been working on. Has he actually built that thing yet, or is he still in the poorhouse?

May 17, 2001, 10:59 AM	#11
Redlg155 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2001 Location: NW Florida Posts: 2,307	I refuse to go anywhere that I may encounter someone or something bigger and badder than I am unarmed. As for pepper spray- you definitely take your chances. I have never used one on bears, but on humans- yes. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If a human can get a direct hit from spray and have enough fight left in them to dish out one hell of a butt whoopin, just what do you think a 300lb or larger bear can do? I refuse to carry armed where restricted. If you do get caught killing a bear, not only have you violated Fish and Wildlife regs by killing the animal, you are now screwed with a gun charge. They don't give a damn about you, they don't want someone "accidently" shooting one of their beloved creatures. That may be enough to strip you of any future rights to carry or own a firearm. It just isn't worth it. If you insist on camping anyway- make sure you pick a nice slow and fat camping buddy. I've learned long ago- you don't have to outrun the lion, just the guy next to you! Good Shooting RED

May 17, 2001, 11:27 AM	#12
Ludwig Member Join Date: April 15, 2001 Posts: 98	I live in black bear country and do not go in the woods without bear spray or a suitable gun. Beware of people who belittle this. They know they can get away with talking as if they are more sensible or brave only because attacks are so rare. L

May 17, 2001, 08:58 PM	#13
Borf Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 424	Interesting. The place where I go (Algonquin Prov. Park - as I'm sure some of you have been to) has been the site of a good percentage of all black bear deaths in N. America. Most signs indicate these deaths are of a predatory nature (which is not as rare with blackies as one might think). There have been 5 people (that I know of) killed in a predatory fashion in this 70x50ish km square park in the last 20 years. The Ontario parks dept. does not seem inclined to release figures on non-fatal attacks. This aside, I've weighed the risks and I take my chances. While I appreciate the bear advice, what I was actually asking about when I posted, was what goes through people's heads when "things go bump in the night". My "bumps" happen to be bear related. Maybe some other people have bumps that are goblins, or snakes, or wolves, or coyotes, or some non-tangible evil that lurks in the underwear drawer. I don't know. Allow me to rephrase the questions as: "I admit to being afraid of things that go bump in the night. I'm sure you guys are scared of night bumps too. Do tell, I wish to hear the stories of others." Thanks, Borf

May 17, 2001, 09:12 PM	#14
Ludwig Member Join Date: April 15, 2001 Posts: 98	At http://www.udap.com/ there are some hairy true stories about bear attacks. Pictures. Pretty gruesome. L

May 18, 2001, 01:07 AM	#15
Cosmoline Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2000 Posts: 1,080	Oh, I understand your question now. Goblins are one of the best reasons to camp alone. With a big gun at my side, I don't worry too much about bear. It's usually the silence and extreme darkness that bugs me. The most afraid I've ever been was on a camping trip in a very old forest in Oregon when I was younger. The wind in the trees scared the crap out me, though to this day I can't explain why.

May 18, 2001, 02:25 PM	#16
CoyDog Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 163	I think one of the best hedges against fear is taking rational, appropriate precautions. Fear of a bear attack? 44 Magnum. Fear of the dark? Surefire 6P. Fear of various and sundry things that go bump in the night? Your choice, but I'll take the .44 . It might not work against the Blair Witch, but I'll go out in a blaze of firepower. I guess I don't view fear as an irrational feeling that one should try to get rid of, or ignore. It may be that your all-knowing, deeper sense of self trying to tell you something. I take the hint, take precautions, and carry on. CoyDog

May 18, 2001, 05:17 PM	#17
Red Label Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2001 Location: Urban Montana? Posts: 304	It is the human kind of predator that I am most distrustful of when in the back-country. But I live in grizland and that's why I pack the .44 mag. Those are mostly the two goblins in the night that I imagine when tossing and turning. I suspect that I will sleep more soundly this summer with my DA .44 mag Garrett-loaded revolver lying next to my pillow. I even pack it when fishing the rivers well-below the griz inhabited mountains of Montana. The peice of mind one gains from knowing that they are packing a big gun is worth any hassle encountered. I can see why Dirty Harry walked with such confidence! I'm not even afraid of Blair Witches. 1000+ FPE should be enough to scare even those kinds of creatures...

May 18, 2001, 09:49 PM	#19
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	The only Law is gravity....... I believe I might be wearing something anti-biting animal when I go into the biting animal place. It might be a 5.5" Redhawk in 41, 44, or 45, or it could even be a 4" GP100 with some really really good ammo. That's what I believe....... --------------------------------- "all my physics are factory physics"

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