Tom Mauser

Ceol Mhor · November 9, 2001, 01:58 PM

For those of you who don't know/remember (all two, I bet

), Tom Mauser is the father of Daniel Mauser, who was killed in Columbine HS. Tom is now a paid spokesman for SAFE Colorado (Sane Alternatives to the Firearms Epidemic). I've been in an email debate with him for a couple months now, and some of his comments in his latest mail have confirmed some of my fears.

Me: And yet you blame these hunks of metal for the actions of evil people. That I do not understand.

Mauser: That’s because you are stubborn and refuse to understand. You won’t face the basic fact we lose so many people to gunshots. An old Volkswagen is a hunk of metal. A gun is more than a mere “hunk of metal.”

This guy gets really pissed off, too...and he takes offense at anything conceivable. I asked him to cite his sources, and he responded with this:

"Are you questioning the 30,000 figure?!? How dare you? It’s right from federal crime and death statistics. Gee, do you suspect some kind of conspiracy here? It’s legit to request sources, but not for widely accepted data. My son would say people who were losing debates would ask for such accepted data just ‘cause they were losing and wanted to aggravate opponents…and maybe ‘cause they were in denial…"

He further finds it "very convenient" that gun owners don't support murder:

Me: If people murder police officers, those people should be punished for murder. I should not be punished; they should be punished. ..

Mauser: Again, my point was they were previously gun collectors who just wanted to be “left alone” and would have been defended by the gun lobby as not dangerous people who just liked guns. But, oh, as soon as they turn their guns on others you condemn them and quickly place them outside your circle. Oh, now you won’t defend them. How convenient.

And, refering to law-abiding gun owners, he had this to say:

"Oh come on now—how do I treat them as criminals and lunatics? How? Because I want them to go thru a backgtround check?"

To which my response is going to be "yes."

Tom Mauser is really obsessed with gun control. Nobody stands any chance of swaying him in the least, especially me. But I have a morbid addiction to debating these people

, so I'm going to keep it up until he stops sending me mail. But since he's said that my comments are going to be used on his web site (and he'd better not take them way out of context) I'll post more amusing quotes from him as I get them, if people are interested...

dZ · November 9, 2001, 02:03 PM

that is one dangerous obsessed loon there

he is trying to blame everyone for his sons death

i expect he will be flown into DC for the MMM national convention next week and will do another protest at NRA HQ

dZ

Tamara · November 9, 2001, 02:15 PM

Quote:

A gun is more than a mere “hunk of metal.”

And there you have it, folks. These logic-is-dead types really do believe that there is some sinister force of bad juju animating what appears to you and I to be a simple chunk of wood and steel, polymer and alloys.

Ceol Mhor,
Have you ever considered taking up a less stressful hobby that's more likely to display results, like banging your head against a brick wall or something?

You must have developed well nigh superhuman patience over the course of this email debate; I'd have flung my monitor over the balcony and into the fountain after a few missives like the one you quoted there.

Gewehr98 · November 9, 2001, 04:03 PM

Herr Peter (Paul) Mauser, God rest his soul, would certainly deny any family connection, even if they were related.

I've read Tom Mauser's website, and the vilification of gun owners is out there in front for everybody to see.

I've been acquainted with people who've lost children to crimes, to include homicides and gun accidents. Heck, I lost a step-brother to a drunken driver. But the overwhelming majority of these folks, my dad included, know better than to blame the owners and the tools (and that's ALL they are, simple tools) used to take the lives of their loved ones.

Then there's Tom Mauser. Never mind the fact that Harris and Klebold had plans in effect to place and detonate a BLEVE bomb in the cafeteria. I'm sure that propane tank registration would've been the proper course of action if that had ever come to fruition, right?

Thairlar · November 9, 2001, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Me: If people murder police officers, those people should be punished for murder. I should not be punished; they should be punished. ..

Mauser: Again, my point was they were previously gun collectors who just wanted to be “left alone” and would have been defended by the gun lobby as not dangerous people who just liked guns. But, oh, as soon as they turn their guns on others you condemn them and quickly place them outside your circle. Oh, now you won’t defend them. How convenient.

Of course that's the case. Owning a gun in and of itself doesn't cause someone to shoot someone else. Someone needs to learn something about responsibility. Sitting here right now, I can see numerous objects in my apartment that could be used to harm someone, and not one is a firearm. You can't monitor someone's thoughts and even if you could, the idea of thought police is repugnant. The most anyone can do is hold those who do horrible things responsible for their actions. If someone is mentally disturbed and they want to kill someone, they'll find a way to do it with or without a gun.

Feel free to use that in a reply to him if you'd like. I guess I kinda feel sorry for the guy and hope that one day he'll realise that guns didn't kill his son, bullets didn't kill his son, mentally disturbed individuals killed his son. Also, I wonder if he had had an opportunity to go back in time and defend his son and the other students with a gun would he do so? I wouldn't be so cruel as to pose that question to him directly, but it the idea could help him see that there's good uses and bad uses for anything and it is we, not the objects, that determine how they're used.

gorlitsa · November 9, 2001, 08:55 PM

Ceol Mhor sent me the entire email from Mauser. I don't know how the religous leanings work on this board, but I would you all would find this rather demeaning; whether you are a Christian or no.

Ceol Mhor suggests Mauser contact me, because I might be able to reconcile Christianity with individual rights (not necissarilly guns, just rights) and this is Mauser's response:

"No thank you. I've been down that road with a few people and it was sickening how little they know of the meaning of the words of the Bible, sick how they twisted it, just like these weird fundamentalist Christian preachers" :barf:

Mauser claims to be a Catholic (although a self-described liberal one. At least he's honest!)

So he now claims that any Christian who believes differently than he does must be 'twisting' the Word of God (while they simotanously know little about it...)

You can go to http://www.gunowners.org/fs9902.htm to see some very logical explinations of how the Bible supports gun (well, weapons in general, really) ownership. And you can be sure Mauser will be getting this link also...

Charmedlyfe · November 10, 2001, 10:29 AM

Anyone got a link to his web site? Better yet, kick him over my way. I'm Catholic, and I'd LOVE to kick him around a little.....

I'd also LOVE to discuss statistics with him. Oh, I'll DARE to question his 'facts'.....

DZ, any way of finding out if he'll do another demonstration? I'm SURE he'd do something illegal, and I would DEFINITELY be there to prosecute.

Jeff Thomas · November 10, 2001, 10:46 AM

Ceol, welcome to TFL.

Let me respectfully suggest something ... take a few minutes to read a wonderful resource in the TFL Libary -- http://www.thefiringline.com/Misc/li..._handbook.html

Most of the way down the page you'll find this pearl of wisdom:

Quote:

DON'T MESS WITH TRUE BELIEVERS. In the time you spend trying to convert one hard core antigun person to our side, you could have gone out and motivated and organized 20 people who already think like you do. Go with the flow. It's easier on your nerves, and much more effective. Personally, I have converted several anti-rights true believers, but never again! Lots of NRA members are not registered voters. A lot of gun owners aren't NRA members. Even more folks have no idea of their elected officials' positions on gun issues. Where is your time most effectively spent? Think about this before you spend an hour writing a clever response to a silly message you found somewhere on the internet.

Time is a precious commodity, and you have only so much. Your skills will bear so much more fruit if you avoid the psychobabble of lost souls such as Mauser.

Good luck, and take care.

Regards from AZ

dZ · November 10, 2001, 10:52 AM

he is such an icon of the anti gun movement
they have to pay his way to DC for the MMM national convention

he was in town for the National tribute to Jim & Sarah Brady
and used the ticket to stage a 1 man protest at the NRA HQ

who knows, maybe this time he will lead a gaggle of mmmommies to Fairfax

the convention is next weekend at the Omni on Calvert Street in Adams Morgan WDC
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...threadid=81972
Mauser may try something Friday afternoon pre 5pm cocktail reception
Saturday & Sunday there is no one at the NRA HQ to "protest"

The NRA obviously does not want to confront or prosecute Mauser

Mayhaps the citizen militia could witness his transgressions this time

November 9, 2001, 01:58 PM	#1
Ceol Mhor Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2001 Posts: 1,043	Tom Mauser For those of you who don't know/remember (all two, I bet ), Tom Mauser is the father of Daniel Mauser, who was killed in Columbine HS. Tom is now a paid spokesman for SAFE Colorado (Sane Alternatives to the Firearms Epidemic). I've been in an email debate with him for a couple months now, and some of his comments in his latest mail have confirmed some of my fears. Me: And yet you blame these hunks of metal for the actions of evil people. That I do not understand. Mauser: That’s because you are stubborn and refuse to understand. You won’t face the basic fact we lose so many people to gunshots. An old Volkswagen is a hunk of metal. A gun is more than a mere “hunk of metal.” This guy gets really pissed off, too...and he takes offense at anything conceivable. I asked him to cite his sources, and he responded with this: "Are you questioning the 30,000 figure?!? How dare you? It’s right from federal crime and death statistics. Gee, do you suspect some kind of conspiracy here? It’s legit to request sources, but not for widely accepted data. My son would say people who were losing debates would ask for such accepted data just ‘cause they were losing and wanted to aggravate opponents…and maybe ‘cause they were in denial…" He further finds it "very convenient" that gun owners don't support murder: Me: If people murder police officers, those people should be punished for murder. I should not be punished; they should be punished. .. Mauser: Again, my point was they were previously gun collectors who just wanted to be “left alone” and would have been defended by the gun lobby as not dangerous people who just liked guns. But, oh, as soon as they turn their guns on others you condemn them and quickly place them outside your circle. Oh, now you won’t defend them. How convenient. And, refering to law-abiding gun owners, he had this to say: "Oh come on now—how do I treat them as criminals and lunatics? How? Because I want them to go thru a backgtround check?" To which my response is going to be "yes." Tom Mauser is really obsessed with gun control. Nobody stands any chance of swaying him in the least, especially me. But I have a morbid addiction to debating these people , so I'm going to keep it up until he stops sending me mail. But since he's said that my comments are going to be used on his web site (and he'd better not take them way out of context) I'll post more amusing quotes from him as I get them, if people are interested... __________________ "There goes as if deranged a German soldier, with burning helmet on his head, making horrible noises. A second, as though possessed, yells "Jews...weapons. Jews...weapons." - From an anonymous eyewitness' description of the first battle of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising

November 9, 2001, 02:03 PM	#2
dZ Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,548	that is one dangerous obsessed loon there he is trying to blame everyone for his sons death i expect he will be flown into DC for the MMM national convention next week and will do another protest at NRA HQ dZ __________________ "O tell the Lacedomecians to damn the torpedoes." BOTR, Chapter V: Some Monsters

November 9, 2001, 04:03 PM	#4
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	He does the family name a disservice... Herr Peter (Paul) Mauser, God rest his soul, would certainly deny any family connection, even if they were related. I've read Tom Mauser's website, and the vilification of gun owners is out there in front for everybody to see. I've been acquainted with people who've lost children to crimes, to include homicides and gun accidents. Heck, I lost a step-brother to a drunken driver. But the overwhelming majority of these folks, my dad included, know better than to blame the owners and the tools (and that's ALL they are, simple tools) used to take the lives of their loved ones. Then there's Tom Mauser. Never mind the fact that Harris and Klebold had plans in effect to place and detonate a BLEVE bomb in the cafeteria. I'm sure that propane tank registration would've been the proper course of action if that had ever come to fruition, right? __________________ "Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round... Neural Misfires

November 9, 2001, 08:55 PM	#6
gorlitsa Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: The Old Pueblo Posts: 644	Ceol Mhor sent me the entire email from Mauser. I don't know how the religous leanings work on this board, but I would you all would find this rather demeaning; whether you are a Christian or no. Ceol Mhor suggests Mauser contact me, because I might be able to reconcile Christianity with individual rights (not necissarilly guns, just rights) and this is Mauser's response: "No thank you. I've been down that road with a few people and it was sickening how little they know of the meaning of the words of the Bible, sick how they twisted it, just like these weird fundamentalist Christian preachers" :barf: Mauser claims to be a Catholic (although a self-described liberal one. At least he's honest!) So he now claims that any Christian who believes differently than he does must be 'twisting' the Word of God (while they simotanously know little about it...) You can go to http://www.gunowners.org/fs9902.htm to see some very logical explinations of how the Bible supports gun (well, weapons in general, really) ownership. And you can be sure Mauser will be getting this link also... __________________ Elizabeth

November 10, 2001, 10:52 AM	#9
dZ Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,548	he is such an icon of the anti gun movement they have to pay his way to DC for the MMM national convention he was in town for the National tribute to Jim & Sarah Brady and used the ticket to stage a 1 man protest at the NRA HQ who knows, maybe this time he will lead a gaggle of mmmommies to Fairfax the convention is next weekend at the Omni on Calvert Street in Adams Morgan WDC http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...threadid=81972 Mauser may try something Friday afternoon pre 5pm cocktail reception Saturday & Sunday there is no one at the NRA HQ to "protest" The NRA obviously does not want to confront or prosecute Mauser Mayhaps the citizen militia could witness his transgressions this time __________________ "O tell the Lacedomecians to damn the torpedoes." BOTR, Chapter V: Some Monsters

November 10, 2001, 10:29 AM	#7
Charmedlyfe Junior member Join Date: October 11, 2000 Location: SC Posts: 799	Anyone got a link to his web site? Better yet, kick him over my way. I'm Catholic, and I'd LOVE to kick him around a little..... I'd also LOVE to discuss statistics with him. Oh, I'll DARE to question his 'facts'..... DZ, any way of finding out if he'll do another demonstration? I'm SURE he'd do something illegal, and I would DEFINITELY be there to prosecute.